Ahmadiyah (Nearly) Banned

Apr 18th, 2008, in News, by

mirza ghulam ahmadA formal banning of the unorthodox Muslim sect Jamaah Ahmadiyah becomes more likely.

A Step Closer

Team Pakem (Badan Koordinasi Pengawas Aliran Kepercayaan Masyarakat (Bakor Pakem)), the body that oversees (unorthodox) religious activity in Indonesia, has recommended that all activities of the sect Jemaah Ahmadiyah Indonesia (JAI) be stopped and the JAI dissolved.

Wisnu Subroto of the Attorney General’s office says the decision is final, no negotiations will be entered into, and was taken because Ahmadiyah is genuinely beyond the pale, – heretical because it recognises another prophet after Muhammad, – and because Ahmadiyah had violated a previous agreement (see Ahmadiyya) to “correct” their beliefs and practises within 3 months.

Pakem now expects a joint government edict (SKB) (from the Religion Ministry, Attorney General, and Home Ministry) to be issued banning the sect, based on Article 156 of criminal code, the law against blasphemy, which carries penalties of up to five years jail. l6

Minister for Political, Legal and Security Affairs of Widodo Adi Sutjipto said on the 17th that a decree would shortly be prepared. antara

However Attorney General Hendarman Supandji said the decree would not outlaw the group. tempo

Trials

Maruf Amin of the Majelis Ulama Indonesia (MUI) recommends the Ahmadiyah leadership be put on trial. Their three month period of grace was over and now they could be charged with deliberately and systematically blaspheming against Islam.

He asked people not to use violence against Ahmadiyah followers and any Ahmadiyah members who agreed to repent should be allowed to claim their property. inilah

Show of Strength

The Forum Umat Islam (FUI) plans to hold a “long march” in Jakarta, “Apel Sejuta Umat”, on 20th April, from the Istiqlal mosque to the Presidential Palace, in order to convince the government to ban Ahmadiyah. republika

Killing

A videotape screened by the National Alliance for the Freedom of Faith and Religion (AKKBB) this week showed Islamic Defenders Front (FPI) secretary-general Ahmad Sobri Lubis urging followers to murder Ahmadiyah members. thepersecution.org

We will wage war against Ahmadiyah! Kill Ahmadiyah! Kill! Kill! Kill! And if they say we are violating human rights, then I say damn human rights.

State Interference

Constitutional Court head Jimly Ashiddiqie recommended that the government not get involved in determining what were valid religious beliefs, instead leaving it up to religious authorities. detik

Bad Reputation

Syafi’i Anwar of the International Cental for Islam and Pluralism (ICIP) says Indonesia’s reputation in the world will only worsen if Ahmadiyah is forcibly broken up, and: okezone

It needs to be made clear that Indonesia is based on Pancasila not religion.

Police Protection

On 17th April JAI officials visited the Central Jakarta police headquarters seeking police protection for Ahmadiyah members and property. okezone

Police general Abubakar Nataprawira said anyone who attacked Ahmadiyah members or property would be dealt with. detik


62 Comments on “Ahmadiyah (Nearly) Banned”

  1. JoJO says:

    Yes, they are not moslem. So if they want to change their name and said that they are not moslem but kepercayaan. Its, oke.

    You can say anything but You can just not respect soo many moslem in Indonesia that feel hurt because of what they have done to moslem.

    If they are moslem, they have to obey the rules in moslem please respect moslem also.

    Atheism, or others like kepercayaan, animisme etc it’s oke
    so if you are moslem you have Moslem rules/ guidance do what your moslem belief guide you.

  2. Irenaeus Ahmad says:

    Assalamu’alaikum,

    My name is Irenaeus Ahmad. I’m an Ahmadi Muslim, living in Indonesia.

    Yes, it’s true we believe that Hz. Mirza Ghulam Ahmad as. was the Promised Messiah and Imam Mahdi as foretold by Hz. Muhammad saw.

    His status as prophet was a given status as he received numerous revelations and prophecies from Allah SWT. Though his revelations by no means the syariah ones (law-binding). He’s only a follower prophet to Hz. Muhammad saw. sent by God to renew and reform the Muslim worlds and make it a champion religion once again over others through peaceful and persuasive efforts.

    This type of prophethood may be a hard concept to digest by most Muslims, and considered as a mere invention (bid’ah). But it’s not like that at all. Non-syariah Prophets are evidences among Israeli Prophets already, like prophets after Moses who followed his Torah Laws.

    If said that Ahmadiyya is not a Muslim Sect, I plead to fellow repliers to judge by yourselves whether this linked book written by a representative of a community who insults Hz. Muhammad saw. and Islam, or one who are in complete devotion to him saw. and obedience to his teachings.

    Rest my case.

    Wassalam
    PS: Just as evidence to its reformation effort, please read through this book also http://www.alislam.org/library/books/ISLAM-ItsMeaningForModernMan.pdf.

  3. If Indonesian government continue supporting extrimist ideas, Indonesia will soon become another Afghanistan raided by peace keeping forces of UN.

    Let Indonesia be secular as it used to be!

  4. Tahir Iqbal says:

    An open Letter
    To: President of Indonesia,
    Secretary General UN,
    Leaders of International Community,
    Organizations of Human Rights

    Subject: Ah! Indonesia you are inviting curse of God

    Excellencies,

    “TO ALLAH WE BELONG AND TO HIM IS OUR RETURN”…..(Al Quran).

    Muslims normally recite this verse upon a loss or death. World conscious seems to have died and therefore I recited this verse. Life is perhaps the only cheapest commodity in today’s modern world for the modern human being who has stooped lowly to the animalistic behavior. And you the leaders of these herds of so-called modern human beings bear the responsibility of tolerating their satanic and evil instincts.

    In the name of God, man of today has caused horrifying damages not only to the humanity but also invited curse of our Lord. Remember! As leaders you have been bestowed with the responsibility to guide the masses and shall be held accountable before God Almighty for not acting to protect the innocents falling victims to the brutalities of fellow humans infected with satanic evilness.

    There is only ONE GOD to whom we all belong and to whom we all shall return. It does not matter with what name(s) we call Him, He remains the Master. It is the misfortune of this modern man who has divided God into pieces creating their separate Gods and thus loosing the spirit of brotherhood and indulging into destructive and evil activities in the name of their individual gods.

    Diversified religious beliefs should be seen as many flowers in a bouquet or like many children of one father expressing their love in their own ways to their common father. Like no one child in a family can force other siblings to respect the father in a particular way, no one believer of God has a right to force others to follow his way. This is what God has taught to His people but unfortunate children have refused to listen to Him. It has been the tradition of God to send chosen reformers to us to remind of His commandments. God can not be limited hence cannot be told to stop sending His messengers. Our duty is to listen, respect and follow all of them because they call us on the path of righteousness and this is the best path for us.

    Ah! Indonesia!
    Unfortunate and innocent common Indonesians may become victim of curse of God for the failings of their leaders for not protecting innocent members of Ahmadiyyah community and other minorities who are being persecuted for their beliefs. Ask your selves; have Ahmadis ever caused any harm to any one anywhere in the world? Their message is: Love for All, Hatred for None.
    Do not forget the history. Several years back in 1974 a similar gruesome drama was played in Pakistan where in the name of service to Allah a bunch of worldly mullahs and their masters let the rein of terror loose on the members of Ahmadiyya community and numerous were martyred, their properties were looted and burnt, their places of worship were ran sacked. The world conscious remained unmoved and the leaders of that time remained shamelessly silent. Remember! By out casting and segregating Ahmadis, you are only exposing yourselves to the wrath of Allah, as happened in Pakistan. Ahmadiyyat was not only protected by God Almighty but also blessed many folds while perpetrators have since been subjected to curse of Allah.

    Do the leaders need to be reminded what happened to those responsible leaders like Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto who claimed to have killed 90 years old issue of Ahmadiyyat and later the dictator Zia ul Haq who acclaimed his evil actions against Ahmadiyya community as service to God? Peace has been taken away from that land and the Pakistani nation is suffering the wrath of Allah for the heinous sins of their leaders.

    Also recall the history, a little over hundred years back, two pious and holy men and highly respected religious scholars (Sahibzada Syed Abdul Latif and Maulvi Abdur Rehman) were stoned to death in Afghanistan on the order of the King under pressure of fundamentalist mullah (clergymen) of that time. The only “sin” of these two martyrs was that they had accepted the message of founder of Ahmadiyya Movement in Islam. History bears witness of tragic breakout of cholera in Afghanistan soon after this gruesome incident and the very end of the evil kingdom bears lesson to learn, also the peace was taken away from that land and the nation continues to suffer for the heinous acts of their leaders and mullahs.

    Ah! Indonesia you are inviting wrath of Allah. It was in your land where in 2005 innocent Christian girls were beheaded in the name of God. Tsunami has not been taken as a warning and now serious food crisis is on your way; the ignorant political leaders of your nation and your so-called religious leaders should learn the lessons from the fate of Afghanistan and Pakistan and have the fear of wrath of Allah. They will be responsible for any curse coming to Indonesia and it is the duty of leaders of international community to take appropriate actions to protect the lives, honor and properties of innocent members of Ahmadiyya community and other religious minorities living in Indonesia.

    O’ leaders! Remember, You will be held responsible before God Almighty for your silence upon such gruesome acts and heinous crimes against humanity. You can not get away by calling such acts against humanity as the country’s internal affair. Also, do not forget it was the shameful silence of the leaders in the past that has encouraged the terrorism, extremism, religious intolerance and hatred to grow across the globe.

    Therefore, please act now before it is too late and before wrath of god descends upon us and before we return to God Almighty.

    Sincerely,
    Tahir Iqbal, USA

  5. Shakeel says:

    We should Ban them and not tolerate this type of people in Islam . If want to pursue than for other religion don’t try to Change ISLAM. There is only one god ALLAH AND MOHAMMED HIS LAST MESSENGER.

    Regards

    Shakeel

  6. Shloka says:

    Shakeel,
    Perfectly your choice if you don’t want to accept them as Muslims. Since someone mentioned the LDS (Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints), their founder Joseph Smith, considers that the Bible has been corrupted, and an angel Moroni came to him and dictated a new Bible which he was to preach to people. The Mormons consider themselves Christian, not another sect of Islam. Naturally the mainstream Christians were not happy with this, and said that the original Bible was the perfect and unaltered word of God. They try to convert Mormons into mainstream Christians. If you want, you can try to convert Ahmadiyya into Sunni Muslims too, but just like Mormonism is not banned in U.S.A., Ahmadiyya shouldn’t be banned either.

  7. janma says:

    You can say anything but You can just not respect soo many moslem in Indonesia that feel hurt because of what they have done to moslem.

    yes, but they haven’t really done anything to moslem have they? they’ve been here since 1925 and no one was hurt until recently, so one would have to ask, is it Ahmadiyah really that upsets them when it never did before? or is it simply that you are all victims of mass indoctrination and are being manipulated?

  8. Muchamad Minako-sukamito says:

    How Indonesian Muslims will feel when a Non-muslim country decide to ban Muslim minority in their country. Take the examle of Thailand where more than 10% of population is muslim and they enjoy all the freedom of relegion.

    Is Islam is worst religion than Budhism?

  9. Janma says:

    Is Islam is worst religion than Budhism?

    Ummm…. yes.

  10. Shloka says:

    @ Muchamad Minako-sukamito
    Since you mentioned Thailand, let me compare it with a Muslim majority neighbour Malaysia. In Thailand, any Buddhist can marry a person of another faith and\or convert to another faith. No arrests, no hassles. In contrast, in Malaysia anyone marrying a Muslim is obliged to convert to Islam and no Muslim can convert to another faith. Lina Joy( a convert to Christianity) and Revathi Masoosai( a convert to Hinduism) have been arrested. Revathi has been forced to eat beef, separate from her Hindu husband and her 15 month old baby has been taken away from her. Lest a few people still hold the mistaken belief that poverty is the root cause of Islamic fundamentalism, Malaysia is slightly richer than Thailand. And Malaysia is only 60% Muslim, Thailand 85%+ Buddhist. Buddhists in South Korea are freely converting to Christianity. Buddhism is also fast gaining converts in the White world. Neo-converts to Buddhism or disgruntled and poverty ridden Buddhists don’t become terrorists. Buddhist women in third world states like Sri Lanka and Thailand can dress as they please, have the same right to inheritance and polygamy is prohibited
    Which brings me back to your question- Is Islam a worst religion than Buddhism. I have to agree with Janma-Yes.

  11. On Monday government of Indonesia ordered Ahmadiyya Muslim Community of Indonesia to stop their religious activities. In violation of this order, the members of the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community will be jailed.

    Indonesia should learn from Pakistan. Where it was before persecution against Ahmadis on a government level started, and whhere it stands now.

    Nothing is left in this country, even Judiciary.

    I was deeply monitoring the situation. To my astonishment, the first hit to Indonesia was oil price rise and unrest due to this.

    And today, news is telling something new, MUD VOLCANO!

    I ask the government and people of Indonesia, to save your country from desaster and stop persecution of peaceful loving Ahmadiyya Muslim Community.

  12. Carl says:

    The practice of religion is supposed to be about understanding God’s love and Man’s free choice for doing good or evil, or both. Religion is not the culprit that chooses evil. Evil is found in the mind and body of the practioner of evil.

    For every religion practiced by humankind anywhere on the face of Earth there are those who are will do evil and those who will shun evil.

    Each one who God has blessed with freedom of choice is individually responsible for choosing between good and evil. On Judgement day the individual and not the religion will be judged.

  13. Aluang Anak Bayang says:

    Ahmadiyah should be banned and all their followers forced to return to the fold of Islam. Allah swt knows best.

  14. Ghulam Ahmad Farrukh says:

    Assalamo Alaikum

    It is the right of an individual to practice a faith of his or her liking. There is no compulsion in religion, as stated by the Holy Quran. Unfortunately, the religious of leaders of many Muslims organizations are turning their backs to the true teachings of Islam and playing with the sentiments of ordinary muslims. Islam is a religion, which gurantees freedom of religion and freedom of speach. The Mullahs want to keep control over their flocks and they are worried about their congregations and their incomes. This is all political. I have been to Indonesia and I find the people of that country to very loving and moderate. However, Mullahs are Mullahs and they are a dangerous lot. Jamaat Ahmadiyyah Indonesia should not be banned and the members should be allowed to practice their faith. They are the most loyal citizens of their country. May Allah guide the leadership of that country to make the right decision. Aameen.

    Wassalm

  15. Fazal Ahmadi says:

    It is extremly shocking to me that the Government of Indonesia surrenderd to the extremist and issued an order cited that Ahmadiyya Muslim Community should stop all its activites in Indonesia.

    I would like to ask few Questions to the Goverment of Indonesia in presence of all peace loving resident of Indonesia as well as world over peace lovers thru this media.

    1. what Government of Indonesia is going to achieve from this order?

    2. Is this order is not against Islam and Muhammad (saw)?

    3. Did holy Prophet of Islam spreaded Islam in this way?

    4. Does Abu Jahal didn’t use the same method to stop Muhammad (saw)?

    6. Is Indonesia is not safe heaven for terrorist Molvis where molvis in public says I quote “kill Ahmadiyya where-ever they are”?

    7. If India and other country take the same stand on Muslims then in what way these fanatic Molvis will defend that?

    It is my sincere request to all peace loving people of Indonesia and world over that they should help the Government of Indonesia at this critical moment by alerting them that the God the creator of this beautiful world is watching everything who is the bearer of ultimate power and rescuer of oppressed people.

    Tell the Government of Indonesia that they should learn a lesson from Pakistan who did the same thing with Ahmadiyya and within few years see the outcome of this; all their systems all collapsing like any thing and Pakistan is known as the epicentre of all sorts of terrorism in this world.

    Save Mankind, Save Indonesians and Indonesia by the WRATH OF ALLAH THE MOST POWERFUL by doing justice to all.

  16. Fazal Ahmadi says:

    Aluang Anak Bayang Says:

    June 10th, 2008 at 9:24 pm
    Ahmadiyah should be banned and all their followers forced to return to the fold of Islam. Allah swt knows best.

    Gentleman about which Islam you are talking about?

    your Islam is not the Islam of Muhammad (saw) it is the Islam of Terrorist Mullas (so-called Muslim Religious leader)?

    As far as I learned about the Islam of Muhammad (saw) there is no place of compulsion in religion and hurting others by any means.

    But in The Islam of Terrorist Mullah backed by the enemy of Islam killing, looting, rioting and dismantaling peace and communal harmoney etc etc are HALAL and those who do this will get heaven in return.

    Thank you brother for your offer but we are not interested in your Terrorist Islam Alhamdolillah we are very happy with the Islam of Muhammad (saw) and Quran.

  17. Assalamu Alaikum (peace be upon you) All,

    I am an Ahmadi Muslim and I pray for my brothers and sisters in Indonesia. Pakistan was the first country to declare us non-Muslims in 1974 and then in 1984 our very basic human rights were taken away from us in the constitution of the country. Everyone can see the state of Pakistan today. Those why try to play God on earth are then destroyed by God alone. Indonesia seems to be following this dangerour road of distruction. Don’t forget that Indonesia has already witnessed dangerous tsunami and earthquakes in the recent past. I urge the leadership of the country to fear God and take the right decisions which are truly the ways of Islam. Islam allows everyone to believe and practice their religion without any force.

    We Ahmadi Muslims recite the Kalima, we believe in the Holy Prophet (peace be upon him) as the Khataman Nabiyyeen (our interpretation of it differs from mainstream however,ie. we believe that Holy Prophet is the final law bearing prophet but prophets from his own Ummah can come to revive the true teachings of Islam. We back this argument with the references from Quran and hadith), and we practice all the tenents of faith completely. Those who will wage war against the innocent Ahmadi Muslims will wage war against God. We will endure our hardships with patience and prayers, but God will certainly grip the ones who will transgress His boundaries and limits. Read Quran and hadith and you will find plenty of verses to support what I am saying. Every true prophet of the past and his followers have been subjected to worst forms of persecution, but eveytime it is God who has come for their help against the persecutors. In one of the verses Allah Almighty says in the Holy Quran that

    “I have decreed that Me and My messengers will prevail”

    So I remind the decent public of Indonesia to rise and stop this injustice before it grips everyone of you in God’s wrath (God forbid). I urge you to fear the power of God and don’t let this minority play havoc with the peace of your country and nation. Don’t let the transgressors ruin the future your generations to come.

    God be with you and yours.

    Wassalam (and peace be on you)

  18. Brett says:

    Allah swt knows best

    Finally! Something we all agree on! So if Allah knows best, then why doesn’t everyone just let Ahmadiyah do their thing?! Citing the Koran to justify persecution and harassment is just so friggin 14th century it’s not funny. Christ!!!

  19. Dear Brothers and Sisters Assalamu Alaikum (peace be upon you) All,

    Everything I am going to say is coming from my heart, so please kindly pay attention to what I am going to say.

    We as Ahmadi Muslims beleive Hadhrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad of Qadian to be the awaited Messiah and Mahdi of the latter days. His coming is in reality the second coming of Jesus (AS), Budha (AS), Krishna (AS), and the Reformer of latter days all the major religions are waiting for . Jesus according to Quran and hadith dead like all other true prophets of God (including Budha, Krishna, Moses, Abraham, Holy Prophet of Islam and so on).

    The coming of Promised Messiah is actually in character and spirit of Jesus. Like the Jews at the time of Jesus were waiting for Elijah (an earlier prophet) to descend from heaven physically again to announce the coming of Jesus, Muslims of today are waiting for the same old Jesus to descend from heaven physically to announce the coming of Imam Mahdi. The solution was already given by Jesus first time round when the question of descent of Elijah was raised to him. He replied (and this is recorded in New Testament) by saying that “John the baptist has come in the spirit and character of Elijah”.

    Similarly, as Jesus (AS) has passed away he can’t return to the world according to the verdict of Islam. So the second coming was infact the coming of another true prophet of God who had to come in the character of Jesus. Like Jesus came to revive the true spirit of Judaism, Hadhrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad; the Promised Messiah has come to revive the true spirit of Islam.

    This is why Holy Prophet (PBUH) more than 1400 yrs ago regarding the state of Muslims today prophecied that a time will come when the Muslims will be devided into 73 sects exactly like the Jews at the time of Jesus. Out of these 73 sects only one will be following my (Holy Prophets) and my companions way while all the other 72 sects will be like the Jews at the time of Jesus.

    So like the Jews put Jesus and his followers into worst forms of persecution, today the Muslims are repeating the same henious crimes against the Ahmadi Muslims. The message of Jesus was nothing but that of love but still it offended the clergy of the Jews at the time so much that he was put on the cross for this and his followers were martyred. Similarly, the message of Promised Messiah today is nothing but that of love for God and His beings but it is turning out to be extremely offensive to the clergy of Muslims of today that they are ready to kill us for our beleifs.

    There are many great similarities between the teachings and circumstances of Jesus and the Promised Messiah today. eg.

    1. Jesus was a non-law bearing prophet who came to revive the true spirit of Judaism. Promised Messiah in the same way is a non-law bearing prophet who has come to revive the true spirit of Islam.

    2. Jesus came 1300 yrs after Moses. Promised Messiah has come after 1300 yrs of Holy Prophet Muhammad.

    3. Jews at the time of Jesus believed that Elijah is still in the heaven and will descend physically from heaven to announce the coming of Jesus. Today also Muslims are awaiting the physical descent of Jesus from the heaven who will announce the coming of Imam Mahdi. At the time of Jesus, John the Baptist came in the character of Elijah, while today Promised Messiah has come in the spirit and character of Jesus. The difference in this case is that Promised Messiah and Imam Mahdi are actually two different titles given to the same one person ie. Hadhrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad of Qadian.

    4. When Jesus came, the Jews (Israelites) were ruled by the Romans (An outside force). When the Promised Messiah came in India, Muslims of India were ruled by the British (An outside force again).

    5. Jews at the time of Jesus were expecting a Messiah with a crown on his head who would have to politically rule over the world with the help of wars. But God sent a Messiah who had a spiritual crown and kingdom and not a worldly one. God sent the Messiah who had to win the terroteries by winning the hearts of people through love. Similarly Muslims of today are waiting for the Messiah who will rule politically over the world and win his kingdom through the help of sword. God has sent the Promised Messiah who will rule the hearts and minds of people.

    …. the list goes on and on. My purpose of stating these facts is to remind everyone that they must not appreciate or condone the acts of the Mullahs of today. These claims of Promised Messiah can’t be taken as lightly if you have any fear of God. Waging a war against these innocent Ahmadis will be like waging a war against God. Don’t play God on earth, otherwise the God who is the most Supreme will show His power to the Ones who think that they are all powerful. Ahmadi Muslims will endure the persecution with patience and through the prayers, but it will only the Indonesion people who will be at loss forever.

    Please rise up today against this injustice, otherwise God who is the most Supreme will take the Justice in His hands and it will be the UNJUST and those who didn’t rise against the injustice who will be at loss.

    I pray that Indonesia takes the step that is pleasing to God. I pray for Indonesia and its people.

    May God be with you and yours.

    Wassalam (and peace be upon you) all.

  20. Abuabdullah says:

    O Indonesian people! if you do not stop making these terrible mistakes, and continue disturbing and teasing the people of God, another TSUNAMI will make you an ugly chapter of Human History and you will again become the example of God’s Anger on the earth, like the nation of Hadhrat NUH Alaihssalam. Beware of HIM, HE is watching you, and watching you very closely. Soon you will see HIM, but then it will be too late.

  21. Shloka says:

    @ Ghulam Ahmad Farrukh,

    While some verses of the Koran do indeed guarantee freedom of speech, the later verses of the Koran are extremely belligerent, and call out to fight and kill unbelievers. Muslim scholars have found a way to resolve this apparent contradiction. They have developed a principle of abrogation, wherein the peaceful verses are abrogated or cancelled out by violent ones. And there was compulsion on the pagan idolaters of Mecca to accept Islam when Mohammed attacked Mecca and destroyed the idols there. The Afghan Taliban, who believe they are practicing Islam exactly as per Koran, destroyed the Bamiyan Buddhas.

    Islam gurantees freedom of speech?Why will leaving Islam be a reason for death sentence in Saudi, Mauritania, Yemen etc? Why then is the press censored in Muslim theocracies like Iran, Saudi, Sudan. Why is a fatwa for death on Salman Rushdie who wrote Satanic verses. Even in secular, tolerant Malaysia apostasy from Islam will land one in prison, while non muslims are freely permitted to convert to Islam. Do you believe all these countries, so geographically and linguistically apart, got the teachings of the Koran all wrong?

  22. Emrun says:

    Do you believe all these countries, so geographically and linguistically apart, got the teachings of the Koran all wrong?

    Unfortunately yes, they do. Thats the very purpose of Ahmadiyya Movement in Islam to put Quran (Koran) into the right context. What do you think why Ahmadiyya community is equally presecuted by those regimes that you mentioned?

    Muslim scholars have found a way to resolve this apparent contradiction. They have developed a principle of abrogation, wherein the peaceful verses are abrogated or cancelled out by violent ones.

    FYI, Mirza Ghulam Ahmad of Qadian was the first one who stood against this verse cancellation principle…Yet Ahmadis do not beleive in voilence. My point is you need to understand Quran…. and for this there is no better source than the writings of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (may peace be on him).

    Even in secular, tolerant Malaysia

    lol…..WHo says Malaysia is secular and tolerant. Just by calling a country doesnt make it secular.

    Cheers:) no offense

  23. Fazal Ahmadi says:

    @Shloka:

    I agree with you 100% that so-called Islamic countries are persecuting Non Muslims in their countries. But it is also to be understood that the stand of so-called Islamic States goes against the Holy Quran and the sayings and practices of the holy Prophet of Islam.

    My humble request to you just log on at http://www.alislam.org for better
    understanding of universal peace and brotherhood message of Islam. You will find that how wonderful teachings Islam has it is Mulla (so-called Muslim Clerics) backed by anti Islamic forces who portraite Islam as a violent Religion but in reality it is not.

    As far as Salman Rushdie matter you raise my humble request that please log on at following link to know the reality of Rusdie and his mission.

    http://www.alislam.org/books/rushdie/RUSHDIE_Haunted_by_his_unholy_ghosts.pdf

    Thank you.

  24. Asslamu Alaikum (peace be on you) Shloka,

    You have raised three issues in your post:

    Question 1. Quran contains verses that apparantly promote killing of the unbelievers and this “problem” of Quran has apparantly been resolved by the “scholars” by declaring such verses as abrogated or cancelled.

    Answer 1. There is not a single letter in the Holy Quran that has been changed or cancelled. Those who say such contradict the very verdict of Quran itself where God Almighty promises the safeguarding of Quran by Himself. The whole Quran is without any contradiction whatsoever and it doesn’t need cancellation or abrogation to resolve this issue. It only needs proper unbiased reading within the context.

    There is not a single verse in the Holy Quran that advocates killing of a non-believers only because they don’t believe in the religion of Islam. This is a baseless allegation against Islam with no backing whatsoever. Quranic verses need to be understood with proper sincere reading within the context of where they come. Quran on the contrary says: “There is no compulsion in religion”. If you have any specific verse of the Holy Quran that you think advocates killing of non-believers only because of their faith, then please present it to me and I will try to give you the proper understanding of the verse.

    Question 2. Quran apparantly advocates death to the one who leaves Islam. So apparantly the punishment of apostacy in Islam is death.

    Answer 2. Again there is not a single verse in the Holy Quran that advocates any worldly punishment to the apostate let alone death. To read about this particular issue follow this link and hopefully you will get your answer:

    http://www.alislam.org/books/apostacy/index.html

    On the matter of so called Muslim governments and their apparantly Islamic acts, I would recall your attention to the Christian crusades of the past. Would you blame Christianity for their actions? All religions have been misused by the people within and outside their faith for personal agendas and it is the duty of a decent unbiased person to do proper research before associating such actions to the religion.

    Question 3. Why was a fatwa of death given to Salman Rushdie?

    Answer 3. One of brothers has already given the link to that issue so I wouldn’t add too much on that. Any unbiased and unprejudiced person will see the truth. I am however a bit surprised that you didn’t really condemn the action of Salman Rushdie where he used such filthy language against someone we consider to be Holiest of all the prophets of God. I on the other hand deplore the actions of both Salman Rushdie and the ones who gave such unIslamic fatwahs against him.

    Wassalam (and peace be upon you)

  25. Shloka says:

    @ Emrun,
    I gather you’re an Ahmadiyya. I really like your Islamic sect, and don’t want it to be banned\ persecuted in any country. You say that I can best understand Islam by reading Mirza Ghulam Ahmed’s(PBUH) writings. However, before convincing me, a non Muslim, with his writings why don’t you convince your Muslim brethren? No offence, but most Muslim nations don’t seem to accept Ghulam Ahmed(PBUH). His followers are not even allowed to practice their faith freely, let alone convert others to it. In fact, Ahmadiyyas are safer in Non Muslim nations like U.S.A or Europe than Muslim nations.

    I know Mirza Ghulam(PBUH) was one of the first and till date very few to oppose abrogation. You say that I can best understand Islam by Mirza Ghulam’s (PBUH) writings. Pardon me for saying so, but if the only way te Koran can be understood in the right perspective is through Mrza Ghulam’s writings, then the Koran isn’t a very good book or a very clear book. It can’t be a very clear book if for 13 centuries before Mirza Ghulam people were interpreting it wrong and believing that the peaceful verses were cancelled out by violent ones, can it ? And it can’t be a good book if Prophet Mohammed(PBUH) is indeed the Last Prophet and after him there can be no more Prophets, and so all Muslim nations who persecute Ahmadiyya believe non believers and apostates from Islam should be killed\imprisoned act according to Koran and the principle of abrogation stated therein.

    @ Fazal Ahmadi,
    Thank you for that link, I spent a lot of time on that site. The Koran does indeed contain messages of peace and brotherhood. However, what would so many Mullahs get by misinterpreting it?There are Christian Priests\ Buddhists Lamas too but they dont misinterpret their scripture and order apostates to be imprisoned\ killed in the 21st century. This is true even for poor Buddhist nations like Sri Lanka\ Thailand and poor Christian nations like Phillipines\ Brazil\ Argentina\Mexico etc.

    There are also many international terrorists who connect their activities with te Muslim faith like Hezbollahs, Al Queda, Jamaeh Islamiah etc. They bomb diverse parts of the world like Madrid, Bali, Lindon Spain, etc. They believe Islam justifies their conduct. What did the poor people of Bali do. They also bomb Muslim nations like the Luxor Bombings in Egypt or the Islamists of Algeria who even bombed Paris.

    As for Salman Rushdie, I dislike him too.As an Indian, of Rushdie’s country,I think he’s a very bad example and his sole purpose is to hurt others sentiments. However, there are writers in the West too like Sam Harris, Christopher Hitchens, Richard Dawkins who are atheists and preach against Christianity. If you as a Muslim can preach Islam, surely they can preach atheism too. The right to believe includes the right to disbelieve ad the right to preach Islam includes the right to preach against Islam.

  26. muhammad nugraha says:

    when people start talking about religions, they start talking about the only right color among the existing colors. it is like joking about ‘gods’. like mainstream muslim, like ahmadiya muslim, catholicism was also protested. the protest ended up with these beliefs http://www.wpunj.edu/~history/study/edelciv10.htm of which are of course debatable.

    but, by all means, there should be no violence between believers of colors or even among non-believers. violence is by any definition an uncivilized act.

  27. Rene Wadlow says:

    Dear Colleague,

    Citizens of the World have a strong tradition of defending freedom of conscience or religion or belief. We have been guided by the Preamble to the Universal Declaration of Human Rights which states that ” the advent of a world in which human beings shall enjoy freedom of speech and belief and freedom from fear and want has been proclaimed as the highest aspiration of the common people.”

    World citizens participated actively in the long negotiation process which led to the UN General Assembly Declaration on the Elimination of All Forms of Intolerance and of Discrimination Based on Religion or Belief. (Resolution 36/55 of 25 November 1981).

    World Citizens have played a role in highlighting the situation of the Baha’i in Iran, Buddhists in Tibet, and the Mandaeans and the Yezidi in Iraq. We had also raised earlier the discrimination against the Ahmadiyyat Islamic movement in Pakistan. Now, there seems to be pressure against the Ahmadiyya in Indonesia which could spill over into mob-type violence against its followers. Therefore, there is an important ‘early warning’ task of non-governmental organizations to point out danger signs and to call for efforts to protect liberty of conscience.

    Below is my oral presentation to the UN Human Rights Council of 17 June 2008. NGO representative have only a three-minute speaking time which makes detailed analysis of a situation difficult. However, the warning has been presented. I would be pleased if you could alert others to this situation and to work for the restoration of mutual understanding among people of different religious movements in Indonesia.

    Thank you for your help. Sincerely, Rene Wadlow, Representative to the UN, Geneva,
    Association of World Citizens

    Mr President:

    One of the important functions of NGO representatives in the work of our Council is that of “early warning”. By calling attention at the first signs of danger, our hope is that governments and NGOs working together in a cooperative spirit can uphold universally recognized human rights standards. Our aim is to avoid violence and to prevent an escalation of tensions which often take on a life of their own.

    It is in this spirit that we raise what seems to be a growing pressure against the Ahmadiyyat branch of Islam in Indonesia.(1) We raise it here under agenda item 9 as the defamation of a religion can be understood as attacks without reasoned discussion on the doctrine of a religion, on the founder of a religious movement or on the current representatives of a religious movement.

    Thus attacks on the Ahmadiyya are often focused on the founder of the movement -Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad who is considered by his followers as the promised Madhi who is to mark the birth of a new era. The movement began in the early 1880s in what was then British India’s Punjab provence, now split between India and Pakistan.

    From there, the movement has spread to many different countries, including Indonesia. In normally tolerant Indonesia, the Ahmadiyyat movement has carried on its activities of worship, education and social services in relative peace for many years.

    The causes of the recent flair up of defamation against the founder and the charges of being heretics against the Ahmadiyya followers need to be looked at carefully if we are to prevent what seems to be some violent attacks against followers followed by police closings of places of worship. The constant defamation of the founder should serve as a warning. In cooperation with the Government of Indonesia, the Council must do all it can to encourage the restoration of mutual understanding among people of different religious movements.

    Thank you Mr. President

    (1) A useful description of tensions is in the article by Peter Gelling “Sect in Indonesia fears attacks on its members ” International Herald Tribune, ll June 2008

  28. ahsen says:

    UN must take effective measure for this peaceful and vulnerable community

  29. Brian says:

    This is the result where the president or leader of the country has no power what so ever. All government officials are too busy to manage the country as their first priority is how to do corruption without being caught.

  30. Muhammad Shahbaz says:

    Indonesian people are very innocent. they dont know about Ahmedis. There leader Ghulam Ahmed Qadiani declared himself “Prophet”. He also declared himself ‘Jesus PBUH’ and imam Mehdi…. In Pakistan they were banned and according to Pakistani Rule they are non Muslaim……Every Muslim knows that Jesus’s PBUH mother name was Mariyam PBUH but Ghulam Ahmed Qadiani;s mother name was CHaragh Bibi….We Muslim believe that there will be no Prophet or Messenger come agian….They are liar. They shoud be banned all over the world…

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