Wahabi & Wahhabism
Nov 11th, 2008, in News, by Patung
The Justice Party-PKS is not a bringer of Saudi Arabian Wahabi Islam to Indonesia, says its leader.
The President of the Justice Party, Partai Keadilan Sejahtera (PKS), Tifatul Sembiring said in Aceh recently that his party was not Wahabi (the extremely strict form of Islam that is dominant in Saudi Arabia), as many accused of it being:
The PKS is clearly not Wahabi.
He said the party was simply based on the Quran and hadiths, and, to prevent its members having any misunderstandings about Islam, a minimum of 60% of the Party’s governing council (Majelis Syuro) had to have some formal education in Islam.
Tifatul Sembiring.
He added that the PKS had no intention of attempting to eliminate the wide variety of religious traditions in Indonesia, presumably whether within Islam itself, or other religions. inilah
79 Comments on “Wahabi & Wahhabism”
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This is what he said, “Nationalism which was dishonest, secular and irreligious, had to be rejected.”
any link to this quote?
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lgun says:
Hary:
A party like PKS is not going to allow this.
Well, in order to see the truth to these statement we’ll just have to let PKS to win, don’t we?
otherwise it is just hypothetical. -
funny says:
Did you also thought it was hypothetical when your parents tell you not to stab yourself with sharp object? I heard that it causes tremendous deal of pain and can lead to death. Of course since you and I never try it, it’s only hypothetical.
Now don’t get me wrong. I believe that it will indeed hurts and can causes death. But since you are so very keen of proving a hypothesis. I suggest you try it. Could be a big conspiracy about sharp pointy objects. Oh aim between the chest. I heard that’s where u can really prove the hypothesis.
If it’s not too late by then, please let me know how did it go, hmmmm? Or at least, you know, visit me in my dream and let me know, mmmmk?
Get the analogy?
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Are PKS a sharp object?, well, it is debatable.
Sharp Object itself can be anything, your analogy has failed. -
Sylvester says:
Are you PKS, Igun? Be honest.
Although it may a bit extreme, I see some basis in funny’s analogy. If you are sure that something hazardous, you still want to try? Unless you are a bit crazy.
For anti Islamic radical, PKS are ten time more dangerous than FPI, Amrozi, Baasyir because they are smarter and richer. -
Cukurungan says:
If you are sure that something hazardous, you still want to try? Unless you are a bit crazy.
For anti Islamic radical, PKS are ten time more dangerous than FPI, Amrozi, Baasyir because they are smarter and richer.If you know danger of PKS why you are only blabbering, crying and onani… go out man and act like real gentlemen create and promote your own party….if you do not have many take it easy …you can promote your party in this forum free of charge
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fullmoonflower says:
go out man and act like real gentlemen create and promote your own party….if you do not have many take it easy …you can promote your party in this forum free of charge
hmmm… good idea Kang Cuk…
maybe I’ll start to make a new party for next election…how about these :
1) PBB = Partai Babu Benjol = Maid with Swollen Head Party
2) PKS = Partai Kloso Suwek / Partai Tikar Sobek = Torn Matress Party
=> poverty made poor people cannot buy a new matress for them to sleep
3) PMKS = Partai Makan Kenyang Sekali [sehari? seminggu? sebulan?] = Once Satisfied Eating Party [once a day? once a week? once a month?]😆
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Rambutan says:
@funny,
PKS has won the gubernatorial elections in West Java and North Sumatra. So far they have not introduced syariah. Let’s observe what they are doing there, then we might judge. BTW, most syariah-inspired bye-laws were introduced by Golkar regents.
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janma says:
correct me if I’m wrong, but I feel that before Indonesia had their first democratically elected president, Indonesia seemed to run on a presidential system… now (I think since Gus Dur fell) the system seems to have moved to give more power to the MPR DPR… so even if the people ‘democratically’ elect a president he doesn’t have much ‘real’ power anyway anymore. The DPR has more…. is that right?
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I think Cuk is losing his mind.
Use your brain and dignity if you wanna have a healthy discussion. Or you just could not find the right words? Then better silent.
Poor…poor Cuk -
To: janma:
(Quote)
correct me if I’m wrong, but I feel that before Indonesia had their first democratically elected president, Indonesia seemed to run on a presidential system… now (I think since Gus Dur fell) the system seems to have moved to give more power to the MPR DPR… so even if the people ‘democratically’ elect a president he doesn’t have much ‘real’ power anyway anymore. The DPR has more…. is that right?
(Unquote)That’s correct. The current 3 branches of government in Indonesia are NOT co-equal. The legislative has too much power over the executive branch and for that matter; there is no inter-dependency between the two branches of government.
That is one of the problems in Indonesian democracy today. For a democracy to work in the spirit of transparency, check and balance, these two branches of government must be co-equal and interdependent, meaning that the legislative can not have more power than the executive and likewise, the executive can not have more power than the legislative.
To make the executive branch has similar or equal power to the legislative, I have suggested to PKS party to draft a new bill with the support of other political parties in the parliament to give the President of Indonesia; being the head of the executive branch VETO right to reject any bills passed by the Parliament if the President thinks that those bills are not in the best interest of the Indonesian people at large (just like the current “ponorgrafi and pornoaksi bill).
Once the President rejects the bill, the Parliament can still muster members of the parliament to get 2/3 vote to override the President’s VETO. This system will create equality and inter-dependency between the two branches. The spirit of this system is that by working together between the two branches will be able to come up with a mutual bill that is so critical and important for both branches of the government and to the Indonesian people at large.
Secondly, once these two branches are getting along and know how to work together, then can star reforming the Indonesian’s judicial system that is so broken and corrupt.
Thirdly, the benefit of this President’s VETO right is that for any small political party in Indonesia does not have to worry and hesitate to nominate their Presidential candidates and afraid of having lack of power for having less support from the parliament because they do not have substantial members there just like PKS party today.
For more detail, please click this link. Make sure you have Mozilla Firefox to view it better.
http://futureindonesia.com/category/democracy-or-demo-crazy/
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huh?
Igun, you mean it went over your head just like that? *whoosh*The point was, while it is barely debatable whether PKS is a sharp pointy objects (all signs lead to yes), no one should try to proof it beyond reasonable doubt by ‘letting them win’. Coz if PKS indeed is the sharp objects (again, most likely as in higher than 90%), by the time we found out, it will be too late. u know the stabbing the chest part. Letting me know in my dream part.
Still confused?
Damn man, shouldn’t you be studying for your exam or sumthin instead of posting in message board? Maybe taking logic and critical thinking classes will help your cognitive process a bit when you get to a university or a college. I dunno if your high school have that courses.
Lemme know if you need a more detailed explanation……
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@ Cukurungan
Oooh sex insult. Really it shows your character not mine. Heh. Now we know what’s really in your mind.I know what narrow minded fool like you trying to do and no, baiting me won’t work.
@ Rambutan
So be it. We will see. For me, it’s a high probability that PKS=wahabi (over 90%).Let’s use another analogy (yes, I LOVE analogy). If I’m a con-man, and I got this couple’s saving on target, I will of course befriend them. First maybe thru their close friends. Than their parents than one of the spouse and finally both of them. Do you really think that I will expose my intentions when I’m close to their friends? Parents? Or even one of the spouse? No of course not. I will wait till I came to the point of no return, when I have everything in my hand, when their trust is at their maximum, I will grab all they have and dissappear.
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hmmm… good idea Kang Cuk…
maybe I’ll start to make a new party for next election…how about these :
1) PBB = Partai Babu Benjol = Maid with Swollen Head Party
2) PKS = Partai Kloso Suwek / Partai Tikar Sobek = Torn Matress Party
=> poverty made poor people cannot buy a new matress for them to sleep
3) PMKS = Partai Makan Kenyang Sekali [sehari? seminggu? sebulan?] = Once Satisfied Eating Party [once a day? once a week? once a month?]Your proposed party sound nasty to me ..why you do not join to my party… Partai Indonesia Indah dan Seksi (PIIS)….if you are feel seksi please join me
I think Cuk is losing his mind.
Use your brain and dignity if you wanna have a healthy discussion. Or you just could not find the right words? Then better silent.
Poor…poor Cukha ha ha …ranting and swearing …..tanda putus asa or losing mind
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hmmm.. PIIS….. nice party… 😆
okay… I will join to your party then … sounds seksi, eh?
and don’t forget to ask Pak Achmad, the “seksi” member one, to join in it too… 😆anyone?
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@ kang Cuk….
so, who will be the leader of PIIS?? Inul? Dewi Perssik?
pakde Achmad.. ayo dong, berhenti nggenjot becaknya… ikutan partai aja yuk! 😆
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Hi Janma,
The problem is that the current president has no balls. He made too many deals with the devils.
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Indian says:
Purba Negoro,
You sound like the typical Military guy, the kinda stuff that put several thousand Indonesians to their graves over the last 60 years. I have a question for you. Do you believe in democracy ? If yes, do you believe that every common Indonesian on the street, who works hard and feeds his family , the average Indonesian student who budgets and lives his life, the Indonesian elderly couple that have a small house and a backyard, can have a say in Indonesia to decide how their country should run ? Do you believe in giving each one of them a voice ? Are you prepared as a person , that they may disagree with a lot of your rhetoric ? I believe that is true democracy.
I hope my comments get published here, if this site believes in free constructive speech.
Regards
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Purba Negoro says:
You are a fool if you think democracy is anything other than tyranny of the masses by the masses. It is mob rule- emotive, fickle and utterly selfish- national interest corrupted by party donors- just look at the USA (best democracy money can buy) and Iraq.
I give you quote by our Hero Sukarno- “democracy is not the end NO, it is merely a means. The end is a just and prosperous society”.
Democracy cannot steer the nation in the direction it requires to become fully developed and prsoperous.
The most prosoerous nations in South East Asia are not democracies- Malaysia and Singapore.
Now we can see the rise of China and Russia due to their authoritarian system of government which is far superior to a nation of citizenry whose basic needs are not adequately met at current time.You, Chris and other comfortable academic and liberal are fools to think political change will equate to better living standards for our impoverished citizenry.
Not only does evidence prove the argument for democracy wrong- but the national interest is subverted by individual self-interest.
Democracy does not put food on plates, money in pocket, immunisations in the needles nmor roof over people head.
Proipr t the chaos this nation find itself in with the debacle of “democracy”- Indonesia was the fastest growing economy in the region- and predicted to be out of debt completely in 10 years.
Under democracy- every single measurable living standard has dropped, we experience scourge of Islamic terrorism, rise of political IslamEconomic growth and direct foriegn investment is what Indonesia requires to have the capital to provide the development and basic requirements of its’ citizenry.
Political stability and security is the prerequisite requirement for the stability required for conducive investment and economic environment.
How to attract the unfortunate necessity of foreign investor if they are afraid the electorate may choose some idiot Muslimiyaah party through their “political choice”?Answer me that, genius?
The undeniable fact is democracy via political choice is merely dross and only those with the intellectual acuity and maturity have the ability to see it as it truly is.
The Western world has also the privilege of billions of stolen colonial loot to afford the luxury of political choice. The West has this luxury at the expense of the world’s majority poor.
The idiot will point out the Newly Industrial Economies as proof of democracy as success- but they as idiots are ignorant of reality.
Taiwan, Thailand, South Korea, Hong Kong and Singapore were not democracies for the majority of their existence- still Singapore is not a democracy- look at Thailand now.
The military has been forced to retake the nation due to the Chinese thief Thaksin Shinawat.Then we should consider the millions in soft loans and aid packages from the West to combat Soviet and Communist Chinese influence in such nations.
India is a poor example of a successful democracy- it has the world’s largest population of extreme impoverished and its’ principal income is multinational profiteering via outsourcing at the expense of the developed world worker.
Summarily, democracy is not in the Indonesian national interest nor the interests of the majority- the the poor and now the declining professional middle class.
They now clamour for a return to the golden years of authoritarianism.
The ruling elites, bourgeoisie and liberals are the only ones who benefit from this fad of political choice.Indonesia will shortly dispense with this idiotic trite fad of democracy and our nation will be able to afford for the education, medicinal and social needs of our society.
For 32 years Indonesia had uninterrupted economic growth, stability and prosperity- and for the first time in Indonesia’s history- a chance of eliminating poverty- all ruined by 10 years of democracy.
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Mara says:
Indeed….PKS is not only equivalent to Wahabi but is also a religious marxism 😉
They will do anything democratic to reach something that is undemocratic.
But i must admit, they really have hired a briliant Public Relations and marketing team.And please be sure to vote this year….not for PKS, of course, but for others. Coz they have already planned that all the “golput” will be to their advantage.
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Igun, you mean it went over your head just like that? *whoosh*
The point was, while it is barely debatable whether PKS is a sharp pointy objects (all signs lead to yes), no one should try to proof it beyond reasonable doubt by ‘letting them win’. Coz if PKS indeed is the sharp objects (again, most likely as in higher than 90%), by the time we found out, it will be too late. u know the stabbing the chest part. Letting me know in my dream part.
Funny, Are you a clairvoyance or sumthin. You use your statement base on sign, and asked me to meet you in your dream?.
A clearly failed analogy had blown through my head “whoosh” just like that, well anyway I’ll just assume the meaning of “sharp object’ in your analogy as a dangerous thing, then please clarify in what part that PKS has the sign of doing or indicating these dangerous thing, not too hard since you have 90% fact right?
Damn man, don’t be to paranoid with Islamic base party, you are just the same as those British police which killing a Brazillian just because he has a face like a middle eastern man. I suggest you seek a help with your paranoid delusional problem to a professional, And don’t forget to take your med pills regularly after you met your shrink.
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justiceseeker says:
Time to give it up comrade, you embarrass Indonesians more than you could ever know.
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If PKS are indeed sharp objects- the first thing that pop into my head is a party of pricks.
But- if they are indeed sharp- they remain the blunt butter knife of the cutlery set- useless for anything aside from smearing offal.
Golkar, the two warring new generals parties and PDI-P are the only hope for Indonesia.
The underlying false assumption running through all pro-democracy and pro-multi party advocates is that the Indonesian electorate are developed and educated to the standard of political thought that these commentars are.The fact remains the overwhelming bulk of Indonesia’s now endemic poor are not even proletariates. We have a generation of mental infants since ten years of KrisMon inadequate funding for development and education.
The Rakyat are peasantry- marginally literate and inadequately educated or even patriotically prepared enough as citizens as per their American counterparts to be able to make the informed and rational decisions the middle class or Western citizen could be entrusted to do.
The mentality of the average Indonesian voter remains as locked into the mentality of the past 60 years- “what’s in it for me?”
If allegedly educated commentators such as Komari were entirely truthful- they would acknowledge vote bribery has been about since the inception of democracy- the British Pitts and Whigs were infamous for it and indeed it was not Suharto who initiated food for vote program- in our relatively modern era- but actually the Americans, surprise, surprise.Yes- that self-labelled, loudly proclaiming albeit dim beacon of ‘civilisation’- who I quote, Oscar Wilde: “the only nation to have gone from barbarism to decadence without the intervention of civilisation” once again to be shown to be conveniently selectively forgetful about its’ own very dirty history.
“Things have changed,” they claim. Nonsense the Yankee thief remains a thief, a rogue and a bandit – just look at the Soros money behind Obama. What of Cheney and Halliburton?
What of Bush Snr and Carlysle Group?
Promising jobs and tax cuts is exactly the same as giving food or money to voters- one is merely in the form of promised credit- at least the Indonesian way is concrete.The Rakyat will never choose the best path for nation- only the best path for themself- the high-minded and antinoal level problems are of no interest to themselves- they have been living hand to mouth for as long as living memory.
What concern them is basic necessity- which all party- jo matter how noble their original intention will all stoop to give at election time- or face the consequence losing vote to competitor or no votes at all- which means an unviable party unable to attract the requisite party funding.Anecdote:
Indonesia is stuck in this actuality stalemate.
The hard-working, tireless domestic buffalo- the krebo- is the Indonesian people. He works so hard all day in the heat- in the rain- he carry so many heavy burden and so much good works- sometimes happy to sit in his mud- but infamously mindlessly stubborn.
Krebo will not follow the path even best for the krebo- only travel its’ path based on own desires/wants. The krebo stubbornly refuse to budge or follow the safer path away from the thorny grasses and cobra.The kind-hearted, far-sighted or well-intentioned farmer can whip or coax or push or even begging and point a gun. But the krebo does not care and he will only travel his path no matter the consequence. Even if it means falling off a cliff, following his friends.
The krebo will ONLY be lead not pushed. The krebo respond best to some sweet treat to lead him. And yet still he may bump the well-meaning farmer roughly!
This is the the reality of the many shortcomings and weakness of the current electorate that cannot be wished away by the high-minded academic or advocate.
How to change? Well it require two finite resource- time and money.
Time we have no control over.
Money we know how to obtain- Direct Foreign Investment.
Why DFI? Indonesia lacks sufficient internal capital to stimulate requisite growth above the 4.5% pa required solely to accommodate new entrant into employee marketplace.No domestic capital= means no domestic economy= which means no tax= no money for school
How to obtain the DFI- we need TOTAL political and social stability- like China. Like Singapore. Like Malaysia- like the West.
Do you see the violent anarchistic demonstrations in the West over food price increase the government have no control over? Western FPI? Antiporno hoodlum?
NO- why- their society is already educated and developed enough to cope with responsibility of democracy.
HENCE their mature society is stable.Indonesia is immature- kurang mateng- unripe, green. What to expect after less than 70 years as a nation?
We have 180 years catch up for the USA alone.The military remains the sole institution in the nation who deals regularly with the very lowest base unit of Indonesian society and thus understands its’ mentality and needs- as well as best future path for the krebo.
This has been proven time and again with concrete result.If Indonesia is to have democracy- it must be GUIDED exactly as under Sukarno. The political selfish infantile and myopic whims of the privately funded and Islamics- WILL NOT act in the NAtional Interest oif a just and prosperous society.
Who evidential has with the empirical data to prove it- Miltary- it is pan ideological yet neutral- loyal only to State- not to terms, funders or airy academic unrealistic ideals.Nasution, Sukarno, Hatta, Hamengkubuawana X and Suharto all saw the genius and necessity of it.
The buffalo needs to be lead. -
dragonwall says:
Makanya Bego Sok Pintar.
How about If PKS = Pantatmu Kena Suntik that is why a party of pricks kept popping up from your head right!
You are damn right man, like you
We have a generation of mental infants since ten years of KrisMon inadequate funding for development and education.
So where all the money goes to. I guess it must be to CALO like you.
How to change? Well it require two finite resource- time and money.
Time we have no control over.You don’t have the time and you don’t even have the money.
Money we know how to obtain- Direct Foreign Investment.
Semua orang tau, yang bisa lahir itu semua ibu. No one will invest into Indonesia except Russia and Soros.. ha.ha..ha.. oh not forgetting O SAME BEEN LAIDEN who plans to invest what something like 10 billion? Into agriculture?
Why DFI? Indonesia lacks sufficient internal capital to stimulate requisite growth above the 4.5% pa required solely to accommodate new entrant into employee marketplace.
This is no good. How about -4.5% or zerrrrro growth. After foreigners began to invest into Indonesia, and suddenly another ABU comes up and say no, the investment is illegal just because the share prices have gone up..Matanya merah..idiot.
The military remains the sole institution in the nation who deals regularly with the very lowest base unit of Indonesian society and thus understands its’ mentality and needs- as well as best future path for the krebo. This has been proven time and again with concrete result.
With people from ABRI Logistic, yeah cleverest among the fools.
If Indonesia is to have democracy- it must be GUIDED exactly as under Sukarno
And return Indonesia into the age of the communist? PKI MERDEKA lah…… So the Chinese needs to be careful of another G40.
The political selfish infantile and myopic whims of the privately funded and Islamics- WILL NOT act in the NAtional Interest oif a just and prosperous society.
How dare you criticize the Islamics. What about bagi Bangku. You talk about Saddam Hussein Al Tikriti, but how about Iran Shah Pahlevi vs Aya tola How many and his cronies? Was Iran not a prosperous and just society? when that near death bed beared idiotic scumbag full of propaganda, discrimination, instigate, (Exactly like you) turn Iran into age of the Black..
But of course buffaloes like you needs to be leaded otherwise tabrak tembok.
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Sorry one more thing you should be singing like
‘Wo ai te ni ya’ Wahai Wahabi ‘Wo ai te ni ya’ PKI
Lagu lama..
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Iran is light years ahead of China in every possible measurable field.
It can also build its’ own rockets without dusting off 35 year old Soyuz crates.It also has the most 6+ star hotels in the world- it’s a beautiful nation- you should visit.
Halliburton is a big investor- so plenty of white money for to earn from your well-experienced bokong bencong (gay butt).Dragonwall- who has killed the most Chinese ever?
Chinese. Communists. At least 30 to 50 million- and thousands per year every year. Why you not moan about them?
What would PKI do in Indonesia- using China and Russia as good scenario for estimate?
Kill tens of millions. Not merely as Sukarno himself stated 60,000.You and I and anyone who disagree, looked funny, thought
too much, wore mismatching socks- would be dead- maybe in the same hole.And you are so stupid to think Sukarno and Suharto were enemies. No- far from it- they knew each other well from 1942. Many mutual friend like Hatta, Juandah, Joyosarono, Sujarwo, Saroyoyowidono, Nasution, Wibowo, Kusumaamadjaya, Daradjatun father, Sukarjo (funeral I just attend) Sri Gust Hangkubuwana X himself.
There are plenty of picture of them conversing happily.
Mas Taufik and Suharto- like hand in the glove.
Every single one hate the Chinese- even Mbak Mega. She is just clever to show you idiot CHinese a smiling face- and so quickly you run to lick her feet- she hates Kwik Kian Gie- he is a liar, a theif and a turncoat- now he says he is a Golkar Bitch.
I thought he hate Akbar Tanjung so very much- but obviously not enough to kiss his ring at last Golkar Tim Sukses meeting.Only Gus Dur like because he is banging his Chinese masseuse while getting millions in Chinese bribe.
Time to remove the MSG and pork from your diet- not only your brain but yellow liver now effect your more poorly.
You are what you eat- yes- too much pork will make you a pig.
Better a krebo. -
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Ummm facts? Do I said anything about facts? Didn’t I say beliefs?
Paranoid? Yes. I am paranoid. The thought of people like you that don’t even get a simple analogy actually dares to cast ballots thinking that you know what your voting for scares me. What makes me a paranoid is thinking just how many people like u are there…….
I……. You…….
uhhhh, speechless……..Hey you should try running for president. With your level of intelligence, attention to details, and comprehension, you will make the whole process of destroying nkri so much faster and smoother. For a maximum effect, join pks.
Simple question then:
Is PKS=Wahabi?
Do I need to explain that question in detail?
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@ kang Cuk….
so, who will be the leader of PIIS?? Inul? Dewi Perssik?
Oh no…. those ladies are not seksi anymore but they are somewhat closer to porno and vulgar species , seksi is not about goyang ngebor or nude but Seksi is about magical proportion between beauty, mystery and fantasy ……
Simple question then:
Is PKS=Wahabi?
Do I need to explain that question in detail?
What is wrong with WAHABI, if WAHABI rule this country at least I will no need to pay TAX anymore because TAX is HARAM according WAHABI interpretation….if you do not want to pay TAX it is easy just convert and if you still love with your previous GOD you still can worship behind the curtain
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Coz if PKS indeed is the sharp objects (again, most likely as in higher than 90%)
@ Rambutan
So be it. We will see. For me, it’s a high probability that PKS=wahabi (over 90%).Sooo intelligent, I can’t match.
Imagine leading a paranoid delusional who judge anything beyond fact, whose aim was to destroy NKRI, not to mention a psychic, no thanks. I won’t run for presidency, i might get assassinated or worst ‘disantet’.
Comment on “Wahabi & Wahhabism”.
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Again, I will make my point, ” Islam does not see the State as a seperate entity. The State is but an instrument to further the cause of the religion”. This is unrefutably historical.
PKS will want a Muslim Indonesia. They will not recognise or allow pluralism or free choice. As an Indonesian, I cringe to watch my fellow Indonesians wear chadors, put on Arabic turbans, and spout Arabic ayats without understanding its meanings. Being more Arab, does not make you a better Muslim.
It is time to recognise that the Prophet only required 5 basic beliefs and practices. Everything else has been man made rules and interpretations. We must recognise that Indonesia has its own culture and traditions. So long as it is not in contravention of the 5 basic precepts, allow people the choice to practice their way of life.
A party like PKS is not going to allow this.