Wahabi & Wahhabism
Nov 11th, 2008, in News, by Patung
The Justice Party-PKS is not a bringer of Saudi Arabian Wahabi Islam to Indonesia, says its leader.
The President of the Justice Party, Partai Keadilan Sejahtera (PKS), Tifatul Sembiring said in Aceh recently that his party was not Wahabi (the extremely strict form of Islam that is dominant in Saudi Arabia), as many accused of it being:
The PKS is clearly not Wahabi.
He said the party was simply based on the Quran and hadiths, and, to prevent its members having any misunderstandings about Islam, a minimum of 60% of the Party’s governing council (Majelis Syuro) had to have some formal education in Islam.
Tifatul Sembiring.
He added that the PKS had no intention of attempting to eliminate the wide variety of religious traditions in Indonesia, presumably whether within Islam itself, or other religions. inilah
79 Comments on “Wahabi & Wahhabism”
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Bas says:
Bullshit. Any party based on religious should be forbidden. First the guys are usually incompetent, most of the time corrupted and they always give privileges to their own co-believers. No armed force nor religion in politic.
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Enigmatic says:
Bullshit. Any party based on religious should be forbidden.
seconded.
well i’m not voting for this party no matter what.
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Rambutan says:
Any party based on religious should be forbidden. First the guys are usually incompetent, most of the time corrupted and they always give privileges to their own co-believers.
That applies to all parties in Indonesia. Ironically, PKS is the least corrupt and best organised Indonesian party.
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Andy says:
Can we follow what Purba said about the Bali bombers and take each and every one of them to a quiet location and shoot them once in the groin and once in the shoulder? I have never been as proud of the man as I was when I read his post that day. Purba I thumped my chest in delight at your thoughts. That should at least solve the problem of Islamic fundamentalism in Indonesia.
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Purba Negoro says:
Andy,
thank-you.
My nation lost thousands upon thousands of Indonsians, Muslims and not – during a near civil war against these Islamic scum- when we fight what was called “Darul Islam’amiyah”- when all Islamic parties unite to seek an Islamic Caliphate of South East Asia.They were, as now, funded by the Middle East- the money trail leads to Qatar, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, Yemen- horrible barbarous lands of lumpenproles who hate their own women and own people.
Every single Islamicist party is an enemy of the State in the making. We all hope they will be so stupid s to put their foot in the wrong place.
Suharto era was less than ideal – but at least such Middle Eastern parrot was hunted to extinction. Shooting too good for these coward who kill total innocent- Indonesian, Muslims and foreigner.
Then what of the impoverishment of the Indonesians who are let go from the work as westerner too disturbed to come to Indonesia.
They are as bad an enemy as the Dutch.
Better multiple burial holes for Islamics. -
Andy, wrong thread. We’re talking about PKS.
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No, Rambutan right thread. I’m seriously tired of Islamic fundamentalism creeping into Indonesian politics and wish it would stop right now. And that’s what the PKS are doing. And I truly believe Purba’s idea is the best way to stop it.
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Separation of church and state shall be adopted in Indonesia to minimize or eliminate the religious influence in the government affairs.
Government rules, regulations and ordinances are there created to govern society to live in peace and harmony by respecting each other differences. One’s religion shall not be allowed to interject in the government affairs to restrict others who have different value. Personal belief and religious affiliation shall not be allowed to be part of the guiding principle by our judges to interpret the law in the court proceeding to decide a case. Religious value shall be a personal choice and the government shall have no business in there but to protect that personal right as a citizen.
The fact that majority of Indonesia’s political parties are religious based is very alarming.
Chris Komari
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Chris,
you are ignorant- as most Americans are.
The Panca Sila already states exactly what you outline.The US political system has nothing to offer the world aside from excellent model for plutocracy and aggressive corporate imperialism.
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lgun says:
Islam, Democratic and Nationalisme are a perfect combination in Indonesia, they can go along together, one can choose whatever comes first. Unlike a west developed Christianism, which put absolute monarch as their principal doctrine, which is why modern democration not compatible with religious thing. This is answer the confusion of bules political view and made them separate politic and religious.
Now, bules think that Islam shared the doctrine with their own developed Christianity, I say they should learn Islam more without prejudice and corrupt way of thinking.
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Igun, what’s democration?
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Sylvester says:
PKS = Wahabi
That is stated by many Moslems that I know. -
joao says:
@ Igun
Michael Swan and AS Hornby would be more than proud of your impeccable English. -
Yes, Andy (& Joao), don’t go that route thanks.
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Oigal says:
Andy, I think a fairer question would be for Igun to explain what he means by
Unlike a west developed Christianism, which put absolute monarch as their principal doctrine
Not sure what he means here..Refering to the British System..Papal..Prez in USA…
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I’m seriously tired of Islamic fundamentalism creeping into Indonesian politics and wish it would stop right now. And that’s what the PKS are doing.
Definitely wrong thread. Linking PKS to the Bali bombers is misleading and just plain wrong. Check your facts.
On PKS: the party is currently moving to the centre. They realised that only by toning down their Islamic and exclusivist approach (which they undoubtedly had when they still were PK) they will manage to win a substantial amount of votes. Indonesian voters tend to favor secular or moderate Islamic parties. The ‘Islamic vote’ is limited and PKS has to compete with other Islamic parties. PKS leadership is not stupid. They understand that they can only be successful when appealing to the centre. In addition, being in parliament, being in power in some provinces and kabupaten exerts a moderating influence on PKS. Yes, you have a lot of conservatives in PKS, and yes, some have sympathies for radical, maybe even fundamentalist, ideas. But so has a the conservative wing in Muhammadiyah or in PPP, even in Golkar. And there are influential, liberal elements in PKS that are providing a balance between the opposing camps within the party.
Demonizing PKS is counter-productive. Instead, other Indonesian parties should learn from PKS. It is after all, the most modern and clean party in the country.
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Yes Oigal, modern democratic i believe was formed during French Revolution, before that, European were an Absolute Monarch strongly tied with the Papal State, even now some country in Europe still a monarch with severely limited authority (appeared to be, who knows).
USA, don’t make me laugh, only 2 party system, money oriented politics, no one-man-one-vote. Not familiar with Brit one.
Joao, who’s them? won’t be bother to know tho, Bule Gila perhaps.
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Igun, You are bit confused then even by your own defs: Who is the French Monarch these days then? Yup the Brits have one, USA doesn’t sorry don’t see your linkage at all here.
A lot would dispute that french revolution gave rise to modern democracy but not really important. In fact French Government take great pride in having nothing what so ever to do with religion (secular) where as the USA pretends at it but relifion has a signifcant influence..Point is you cannot throw democracies into a grabbag of prejudices as there are many kinds and adaptions.
Not even sure of your point..monarchy ..good thing or bad.
One man one vote..is very simplistic view of democracy, I really think you need to so more study before spouting the piffle you hear from the bitter n twisted
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Oigal, I meant to link bules view on separatism of religion and politics with their own experience, then they try to implement their experience with Indonesian. Which i think is a crazy idea since we have difference religion. If Bule try to push the idea of separatism between Islam and politic, they must convert to Islam first then tell us what their opinion, otherwise be silent about it.
Being a simple thing, why make it so hard to understand and so complex to practice, it is not even for the realm of intelligent, democracy is for every one, for me, for simple people. Bules are to arrogance they don’t compatible themselves with democracy.
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jaka says:
Until PKS accepts members from liberal islam goup, I will not trust him. Sorry, Pak Tifatul.
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fullmoonflower says:
all politicans here are rubbish… corrupts… immorality…
I don’t care if they are from islamic parties or not…
they are all same in reality… munafik…never thought to vote one of the parties in the next election…
hmmm……maybe I’ll vote them all… 😛
well, at least my election card will be out of use… hehehe -
diego says:
Oigal, I meant to link bules view on separatism of religion and politics with their own experience, then they try to implement their experience with Indonesian. Which i think is a crazy idea since we have difference religion.
What religion? There are at least 6 religions known to the indonesians (not to mention some other local religions). What do you know about Hindu or Budha for example? Are you sure their teaching is against secularism? Let see countrie whose majority of the population are buddhists (or related), Japan or Taiwan for example. Do they practice secularism? Hell yes and they’re doing well. Taiwan too. Ah, and let’s not forget China. They _are_ doing well on that aspect. its If you speak for Indonesia, please try to put yourself as Indonesian first, not moslem.
If Bule try to push the idea of separatism between Islam and politic, they must convert to Islam first then tell us what their opinion, otherwise be silent about it.
You talk rubbish here. WTF, convert, otherwise be silent? Ok fine, let’s put it this way: can you guarantee that after converting to Islam they can escape later (convert back to whatever they were before) unharmed, after they’ve had enough of the teaching you’re promoting?
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Iman says:
Ha..ha…ha….when it’s about Islamic party, suddenly some people here promoted uncivilized and un-democratic type of conduct, bann, forbid …..?
Sound familiar to you? I do…..
Why don’t you create or support your own party and compete with PKS in fair and democratic ellection…thats what I call gentle way…..
Thanks to promote PKS here, they are the future of Indonesia ….
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funny says:
Seriously? PKS is wahabi? Man by their thuggish, non-tolerance stance I thought they are a moderate party.
Really? They have a minority and someone that is not islam holding a top position? Why I have no idea.
Wow they really can help indonesia then. I mean things right now is just all too easy. we need more challenge, more hardship, and more double-standards.
They are just what indonesia needs. They are the future of indonesia.
Wait you’re saying that our goal is not self-combustion? Or self-destruction? Or blaming others?
huh……..
………
What indonesia need are obviously these fanatics. To stand next to the idiots. 3 centuries long of “divide et impera”. Now these thugs are doing it and most go along with it.
PN, you and I don’t see eye-to-eye. But your statement makes me proud to be a citizen of this country.
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What kind of Democracy Indonesia is embracing?
Couple years ago, Chairman Sembiring and Mr. Mahmud Siddiq from PKS party were invited to the USA sponsored by the U.S. State Department to learn and observe about the American Democracy. They had the opportunity to visit the office of US State Department, visit other States and met several US Senators and Congressmen as well as observing how Parliamentary proceeding was undertaken in the US Congress.
During their trip to the USA, I had the opportunity to meet both of them, had dinner with them and engaged in one-on-one discussion about many issues facing Indonesia. One of the questions that we raised to these gentlemen from PKS was about the separation of Church and State in a Democratic government.
President/Chairman Sembiring on the record stated that this issue (separation of Church and State) was new to him and he wanted to study it more about this issue.
We discussed many issues but I will only mention about that issue here. I also have met in person and had a cup of drink with Vice Sekjen of PKS, to discuss many critical issues facing Indonesia. In many respects, I admire PKS’s accomplishment as a new political party representing the younger generation for a change but in many respects; I wholeheartedly disagree with their stand on many critical issues. But those disagreements enrich my knowledge and I respect that dearly.
Demo as being “people” and kratia as being “authority”, President Lincoln summarized as “government of the people, by the people and for the people”. Now what role do the Indonesian people have after the general election is over? Precisely, what role do the Indonesian people have in the government affairs after the general election is over?
So far none, zip, nara, zero! Once the general election is over, the millions Indonesian people are left out in the back burner becoming the spectator of Democracy. The government of the people, by the people and for the people becomes the government of political party, by political party and for the political party. The interest of the people is shifted and overwhelmed by the interest of the party. That is exactly what happening now in Indonesia today. Those Representatives are too political party oriented and not people oriented due to political affiliation.
On top of that, election in Indonesia is more like business trade where candidates are allowed to buy votes, especially, in the regional and district election level. Is that a new democracy ala Indonesia that PURBA is very proud of?
Don’t make democracy a piece of merchandise. Democracy is not for sale, it does not benefit Indonesian people in the long run. What is the value Rp. 100,000 or 30 Kg rice in lieu of their votes compared to electing a representative who cares and understands about their issues locally and fight for it in the Parliament for the betterment of their people they represent? Such a practice shall be prohibited, plan and simple!
Regardless of any new name and perhaps, a different kind of Democracy Indonesia is going to embrace, Democracy can not be separated from its 11 principles, which are:
• Sovereignty of the people.
• Government based upon consent of the governed.
• Majority rule.
• Minority rights.
• Guarantee of basic human rights.
• Free and fair elections.
• Equality before the law.
• Due process of law.
• Constitutional limits on government.
• Social, economic, and political pluralism.
• Values of tolerance, pragmatism, cooperation, and compromiseBASIC HUMAN RIGHTS
• Freedom of speech, expression, and the press.
• Freedom of religion.
• Freedom of assembly and association.
• Right to equal protection of the law.
• Right to due process and fair trial.Now what happen if Indonesia picks and chooses in implementing those democratic principles?
Just like being a Muslim who loves to have more than one wife as the benefit of being a Muslim but does not want to fast 30 days as one pillar of Islam; a mandatory act to be called a Muslim. If a Muslim picks and chooses like that, what kind of Muslim that person is?
This is the same thing with Democracy in Indonesia. Having fair and free election alone does not make Indonesia a democratic country. Indonesia shall not emphasize free and fair election but neglecting their citizen from having basic human rights. That is a twisted version of Democracy. That is what I see happening in Indonesia today.
Imagine if one value of religion is being forced through a political maneuver in the parliament to the minority and society as diverse as Indonesian people who profess many different religions, values and cultures? What will happen to the country? Even Prophet Muhammad (SAW), may peace and blessing be upon him, respected and honored those who did not believe in him as a messenger of GOD by having a truce deal with them, the non-believers. That respect and solidarity is so critical in any society regardless of the system of government that they have to establish peace and harmony.
In Democracy, the people; in this case the people of Indonesia do not yield their sovereignty to the agencies, commissions, offices, departments, government officials, TNI, POLRI, representatives and the government which serve them. The people of Indonesia, in delegating authority, do not give their public servants, representatives, arm forces or government officials the RIGHT to decide what is good for the Indonesian people to know and what is not good them to know. The Indonesian people insist on remaining informed so that they may retain control over the instruments they have created.
By not involving the Indonesian people in the government affairs, what control do the Indonesian people have over the instruments they have created after the general election is over?
So, what kind of democracy Indonesia is embracing?
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Hary says:
There is a clear distinction between religion and politics in most Western systems. The historical development of the Judeo-Christian system stems from Jesus’s own exhortation to “render unto Ceaser what is Ceaser’s”. Clearly, the accepted mainstream view is that politics and religion are seperate.
By contrast, Prophet Mohammad was not only the spiritual leader, but also the political leader of the people who gathered in Yathrib. Consequently, the state is formed to facilitate the practice of the religion. Throughout its history, Islamic Staes and empires have supported and promugated Islam through different degrees of success.
It is my opinion that an Islamic Party winning an election cannot appreciate the separation of State from Religion. This concept of the independant State does not exist in Islamic doctrine.
A notable departure to this is Ataturk’s model in Turkey. Be religious if you like… but be secular when you are deciding the laws of the citizenry.
There is no place in a real democracy for religious based Party. -
Aluang Anak Bayang says:
WARNING!
Do not trust this man. This is what he said, “Nationalism which was dishonest, secular and irreligious, had to be rejected.”
Tifatul Sembiring is not Javanese so there is a chance that he will try to arabianise Indonesia if he gets his way. The only way to stop the arab disease spreading in our land is to vote in a Javanese.
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Abdul Khalid al Jumhuri says:
It is just one cheapo trick of PKS to usurp power, public symphaty, and cheap political marketing. PKS is Wahabi. It is like their ads on TV, they usurps anything that they could grab. I know they have prepared it long in the early late 1980s, in Indonesia and abroad. They were counting the last of Suharto days while preparing themselves, honkering down waiting for the right time to come-up.
I know it because I helped one of PKS founders when he arrived in the US as a student late 80s. Later on, still in the same town, he dropped me as friend because he was interested more to the friendship of the Wahabi circle there: students from the Middle East. Unfortunately, I was just one of those kafirs. In the 90s when I returned to Indonesia, we were too busy to understand what the heck Wahabbianism is, so nobody cared. The person I mentioned, was then become one of the founder of PKS, and a short-lived Minister under Gus Dur’s cabinet.
No sir, actually I know for certain that PKS=Wahabbi. It is impossible that they could simply disown the hands that have been feeding them so far.
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This is what he said, “Nationalism which was dishonest, secular and irreligious, had to be rejected.”
any link to this quote?
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