New Order Relics
Feb 15th, 2008, in News, by PatungWhether the government should pay heed to fatwas issued by the clerics’ council.
Politician and the principal of an Islamic boarding school, Salahuddin Wahid, said on 14th February that the government should not give any special credence or weight to fatwas issued by the Majelis Ulama Indonesia (MUI).
This country is based on the 1945 constitution and the basic law.
The fatwa against Ahmadiyah, and presumably the fatwas against other other Islamic sects, were based on a particular religious viewpoint, which the government should not heed, he said.
Adnan Buyung Nasution
A member of the Presidential Advisory Council, Adnan Buyung Nasution, said the MUI was a relic of the New Order system, a means to control society. tempointeraktif
Surya newspaper front page.
Meanwhile, oblivious to this no doubt, MUI chairman Ma’ruf Amin said a number of parliament members have been petitioning the MUI to issue another fatwa, this time against Valentine’s Day, such as Anwar Saleh from the PBB, Crescent Star Party, who said:
It’s really needed.
Maruf said celebrating Valentine’s Day was obviously haram, or forbidden, but he wasn’t sure if a fatwa was needed, and no mention of any conspiracies. surya
63 Comments on “New Order Relics”
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Odinius says:
I don’t dislike MUI because it’s a relic from the New Order; I dislike MUI because it attempts to exert control over individual decisions…
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Janma says:
If they’re going to issue fatwa’s then let them issue it to the people who follow them, not others. Why don’t they issue a fatwa against suicide bombing?
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Djoko says:
1. The MUI can issue fatwas but they are not legally binding.
2. The side at fault here (as rightly pointed out in the original article with Salahuddin Wahid) is the government, who uses MUI fatwa’s as a reference point for public policy. As he said in the original article, the religious view on Ahmadiyah (for example) is that they are a deviant sect of Islam. What he’s saying here is that this is just a religious opinion and should not be enshrined in law.
3. Both proponents and opponents of the MUI seriously need to stop investing it with more (imagined) power than it really has.
4. If the MUI wants to issue a fatwa banning Valentines Day, let them have at it. But see point 1 with regards to how much attention people should feel required to pay to it.
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Bogalakon says:
Agree with you Djoko,
MUI once issued fatwa against piracy, but government didn’t accommodate,
Now if MUI issues fatwa against Ahmadiah or Valentine’s day and government accommodate it, then the problem is government not MUI. -
@Djoko. Good points. Salahuddin and Nasution are right on the money with what they are saying. But it’s a two-way street. MUI exists because they were created by government as a government-sanctioned body. They have continued to exist because the government continues to sanction and sponsor them. Their fatwas, even if not legally binding, have the stamped approval of the government by the fact of its sponsorship.
Government support for MUI is a New Order relic that needs to be cast away 🙂
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Agreed with Janma, they should issue fatwa for other important things rather than banned Valentine’s celebration.
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Love is hardly recognize in Islam because Islam preferred harsh rule and violence. There is no single word in Quran telling people to love and care each other.
From that words, It’s apparent that Sylvester never read Quran,
But how come he says “There is no single word in Quran…” as if he had read the entire Al-Qur’an?
The answer is poor conventional brain can only be fed by mass media provocation so it can not reach beyond stereotype
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Cukurungan says:
The reason is he is afraid the moslem youth is influenced by the Christian value of love (St.Valentinus). Love is hardly recognize in Islam because Islam preferred harsh rule and violence. There is no single word in Quran telling people to love and care each other.
Evidence of the Christian Value of Love in this World:
1) 8 millions Jews killed by Hitler (a Pious Christian)
2) 10 million of Indian starved to death by Christian Ruler of United Kingdom
3) 100 Millions of Red Indian and Aboriginal exterminated from the earth by Christian Anglo
4) 15 millions Black Slave killed during Christian Trans Pacific Slave Trading
5) Hundred thousand muslim Indonesia people killed by Christian Dutch and billion US dollar Indonesia wealth was stolen by Christian DutchTherefore at whatever cost we will not let our brother and sister deceived by the Fake Christian Love
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Sputjam says:
Fatwas cannot be issued by a human, unless that person claims himself to be God.
Mohamed nor any prophets, never claimed to be a clerics, imams or priests. They were mere messengers of God. They never issued fatwas. They merely relayed God’s messages.
Any person who allow himself to be dictated by another person’s point of view in faith, will eventually be deceived.
Seek God on your own. He is The Compassionate. The Omniscient.For the sincere, God may eventually guide him. For God guide Whom He wills. -
Lairedion says:
Both sets of religions have had a violent history. Christians more than Muslims. As a non-follower of both I do feel sympathy with God, the Prophets, Jesus and Mohammed. They must be really disappointed with the behaviour of their so-called adherents.
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As always Sputjam has some wise words for all of us… 😐
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Oigal says:
Hundred thousand muslim Indonesia people killed by Christian Dutch and billion US dollar Indonesia wealth was stolen by Christian Dutch
mmm…so about 400,000 thousand less than killed after the dutch left or 200,000 thousand less than were killed in TIM TIM..
) 8 millions Jews killed by Hitler (a Pious Christian)
Oops no he wasnt but the Catholic Church have a lot to answer for
2) 10 million of Indian starved to death by Christian Ruler of United Kingdom
Mmmm..where did this come from?
3) 100 Millions of Red Indian and Aboriginal exterminated from the earth by Christian Anglo
There were 99.5 million Red Indians?
4) 15 millions Black Slave killed during Christian Trans Pacific Slave Trading
Funny I though Arab traders were raiding Africa to supply the market
5) Hundred thousand muslim Indonesia people killed by Christian Dutch and billion US dollar Indonesia wealth was stolen by Christian Dutch
Earth to CUK…Come on down, your oxygen supply is low
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How a out this? People are generally sh*t whether they believe in version A of God X, version B of God X or they believe in Gods A-Z.
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Andrew says:
evidence of the Christian Value of Love in this World:
1) 8 millions Jews killed by Hitler (a Pious Christian)
2) 10 million of Indian starved to death by Christian Ruler of United Kingdom
3) 100 Millions of Red Indian and Aboriginal exterminated from the earth by Christian Anglo
4) 15 millions Black Slave killed during Christian Trans Pacific Slave Trading
5) Hundred thousand muslim Indonesia people killed by Christian Dutch and billion US dollar Indonesia wealth was stolen by Christian DutchTherefore at whatever cost we will not let our brother and sister deceived by the Fake Christian Love
Ugh, CukCuk is damn right – I’m converting to Islam!
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– Jews say: Shalom aleichem
– Christians follow Jesus who said: “Peace on Earth and love thy neighbour”
– Muslims say: “Assalam alaikum”
– Quran [2:62] says: Surely, those who believe, those who are Jewish, the Christians, and the converts; anyone who believes in GOD, and believes in the Last Day, and leads a righteous life, will receive their recompense from their Lord. They have nothing to fear, nor will they grieve.Why is it so hard for the respective adherents to maintain and follow the above-mentioned?
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Lairedion speaks the truth.
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Sylvester says:
From that words, It’s apparent that Sylvester never read Quran,
But how come he says “There is no single word in Quran”¦” as if he had read the entire Al-Qur’an?
The answer is poor conventional brain can only be fed by mass media provocation so it can not reach beyond stereotype
Then, show me the verse if there is any. The good debate is attacking the comment, not the person. Otherwise, it is just an endless cat fight by low level intellegence creatures.
The true Christian is not just by baptism but have to follow the Jesus, that is love and care others. So, Christians never massacre others. In Islam, as long as you can say say syahadat and do 5x prayer, you are true Moslem, regardless whatever you are doing. This is the problem that Islam should fix to develop itselft.
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The true Christian is not just by baptism but have to follow the Jesus, that is love and care others. So, Christians never massacre others. he Jesus, that is love and care others. So, Christians never massacre others.
Dear Mas Sylvester,
You are damn right why I already posted many time in IM that all true Christians were already death and extinct from this earth because the people who call them self Christian in now days they are still f*cking woman and doing massacre as we spoke just check it out what happened in Kenya.
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Teng says:
people who call them self Christian in now days they are still f*cking woman and doing massacre as we spoke just check it out what happened in Kenya.
Ah I see… just like the muslim Janjaweed are raping and killing women in Sudan?
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Ah I see”¦ just like the muslim Janjaweed are raping and killing women in Sudan?
Exactly like that. Neither Christians nor Muslims nor Jews nor Hindus nor Buddhists have a monopoly on violence against civilians.
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Most religions prohibit violence. So, if someone commits violence, his could be considered not religious anymore. In the past, many violence occured in the name of the church, temple, whatsoever, which are wrong. In this modern world, many religions have reformed themselves. So we will never see someone killing others in the name of Jesus or Buddha, for example. However, there are still many persons today killing others in the name of Allah. To make it worse, a significant portion of Moslems support the idea.
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Sylvester,
You’d better google the following modern Christian groups/persons:
– Lord’s Resistance Army (Uganda)
– Army of God (USA)
– Lambs of Christ (USA)
– National Liberation Front of Tripura (India)
– Various Chrisitian Lebanese militia groups
– Timothy McVeigh
– Various South African white supremacist groups such as the AWB
– Eric Robert RudolphBe careful with your statements about nobody killing in the name of Jesus in the modern world.
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Good call on Timothy McVeigh and Eric Rudolph. Few people think it was religious violence, but they were inspired by “The Turner Diaries” and the “Christian Identity Movement” which seeks a Christian justification for both racism and anti-government violence.
I wonder when these fools will start blowing things up again…
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Aluang Anak Bayang says:
@ Odinius
Exactly like that. Neither Christians nor Muslims nor Jews nor Hindus nor Buddhists have a monopoly on violence against civilians.
When Moslems kill in the name of Allah, it is not violence because it is the duty of Muslims to protect Allah’s territory. Some innocent Muslims might accidently be killed, but Allah will look after them in heaven. This is how righteous our religion is. Islam is not a religion to fool around with like Buddhism or Christianity. We worship the real God, not another God’s creation.
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Mr. Tic Tac Toe says:
Pak Aluang.
When Moslems kill in the name of Allah, it is not violence because it is the duty of Muslims to protect Allah’s territory. Some innocent Muslims might accidently be killed, but Allah will look after them in heaven. This is how righteous our religion is.
Thats exactly the reason why your religion is horribly terrifying to me personally. Yes, call me a coward, i dont mind.
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Pakmantri says:
@ Aluang AB,
Throwing out the bait eh? Let’s see if anybody bites ………………. 😀
Salam.
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My understanding of the original post was that it was about the perceived powers of the Majelis Ulema Indonesia. The MUI is indeed a relic and must be preserved in the historical record but issuing fatwas against Valentine’s Day seems to be making moves in the wrong direction.
The fatwas of the MUI are not legally binding in the sense of rule of law in Indonesia, but that is to simplify to the extreme the force and weight that these fatwas carry. To use a boxing analogy the MUI punches well above its weight! However, the fatwas do not draw their strength from force of law but rather public pressures on government officials to not be labelled as being anti-Islam or bad Muslims for failure to heed the advice of the MUI as contained in the fatwa.
When you set up an organization to be the final determiner of what the Koran and haddiths say or are interpreted to say then you create a situation where you have to take the good with the not so good.
The other issue with fatwas and particularly the fatwa outlawing the beliefs of Ahmadiyah seem to be in direct contravention of the supposed provisions of the Constitution guaranteeing freedom of religion or belief. Just because something diverges from the mainstream does not make it automatically wrong or even misguided. Let’s face it if the Church could have had its way we would still be learning that the earth is square and that the sun revolves around the earth.
I was not surprised that the thread degenerated quickly into which religion is the more evil or which is the right path to paradise / heaven. Men, women, and children have killed in the name of their respective Gods for many, many, many millenia and perhaps the MUI needs to issue a fatwa that on at least one day of every year people have to come together irrespective of their relevant faiths and spread and share some love — you do not have to call it Valentine’s Day, call it an inter-faith day of tolerance and peace for all I care, but let’s move on from the hate and the blame and the mistrust!
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Sylvester said:
However, there are still many persons today killing others in the name of Allah. To make it worse, a significant portion of Moslems support the idea.
Me:
Mas Silvester well said and another new enligtenmen from your post, it is still OK for the infidels to kill, rape and slaughter other as long as they do it not in the name of Jesus but it is very bad for muslim to kill the infidels because the muslim do that in the name of Allah
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Mr. Tic Tac Toe said:
Thats exactly the reason
why your religion is horribly terrifying to me personally. Yes, call me a coward, i dont mind.’me :
He he he because Mas Aluang Religion is Kahariangan…better for you never try to confront him otherwise your head will fly
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MUI should be abolished long time ago, because it is HARAM itself, LOL.
The reason is he is afraid the moslem youth is influenced by the Christian value of love (St.Valentinus). Love is hardly recognize in Islam because Islam preferred harsh rule and violence. There is no single word in Quran telling people to love and care each other.