Suharto: Let the People Speak, Please Help Indonesia Matters do an informal poll.
Friend,
The alleged near-death of Indonesia’s former strongman President Soeharto has dominated the news and Indonesia Matters discussion in the past two weeks.
Was he a bloodthirsty despot or nation builder? Both? Were his economic achievements tarnished by corruption and human rights abuses? Were there any lasting economic achievements to balance against the reported human rights abuses?
Is it disrespectful to the memory of alleged victims to the regime to even ask these questions? Some would say so.
I invite you all, (with a nod from Patung), to help with an informal poll of a near-silent voice in all of this: the Indonesian people.
I’m inviting all Indonesia Matters posters and readers to contribute to an informal poll. Here’s the idea:
Ask three Indonesian people in your everyday life these questions:
1. Enakkan hidup di Jaman Soeharto atau sekarang? Kenapa? (Was life better under Soeharto or now? Why?)
2. Kalau nilai Soeharto sebagai President bagaimana? (What’s your evaluation of Soeharto).
I’d call on people to focus on working class or poor Indonesians. The middle class and articulate have their outlets. The voices of the ordinary people in English language media are all too often drowned out by the ramblings of people such as myself and middle class Western commentators.
This is not a scientific poll, but the Blogosphere is supposed to liberate us from the tyranny of the “mainstream media” so let’s use it! We’re all busy people, but over the next few days or so, we should at least be able to manage a few questions to the sopir, maid, satpam, shop attendant, bus driver, tukang ojek, penjual sekoteng.
Please, if you’d like to join, try not to indicate an opinion one way or another, or ask leading questions. Just ask. Please also try to get names, ages, and professions, and if you change the name, please also indicate, just for transparency.
I promise to update after lunch.
Merdeka!
Achmad (temporarily returning from retirement).
* I see only two questions instead of three.
* ” Enakkan hidup di Jaman Soeharto atau sekarang?” –> “Menurut bapak/ibu apakah hidup bapak/ibu lebih enak di jaman pak Harto dulu, atau lebih enak sekarang?”
* ” Kalau nilai Soeharto sebagai President bagaimana?” –> “Bagaimana penilaian bapak/ibu terhadap pak Harto semasa menjadi presiden?”
Achmad, now I know you’re definitely an american 🙂
I’m not what kind of main hypothesis you try to answer with those questions, but if you try to find this out:
Was he a bloodthirsty despot or nation builder?
IMHO those two are wrong questions.
Not Bahasa Indonesia Yang Baik dan Benar.
Oooh…. ok.
Any chance of a contribution from you in the next week ? All it has to be is pembantu, penjaga, satpam, orang jualan, whoever.
Sadly … I have none of those in where i live now.
The questions seem to make sense – but they don’t. Most people will answer that things were better under Suharto. They compare today’s reality not with the reality of 20 years ago, but with what they remember when they were 20 years younger.
Second, human memory is far from being objective. Actually it’s very selective as we all know. There is a tendency for bad memories to fade more than good memories.
Third, times changed with or without Suharto. There are twice as many people today than a generation ago. There are the effects of globalization, there is pollution, etc. And all that greatly impacts our life today.
In short: This “survey” (even if it were representative) says absolutely nothing about how good or how bad Suharto was. It’s the wrong approach.
The silence is deafening:
From:
Oigal
Pulutan
and others.
The poor it seems, should be invisible. Silent. How dare they disagree with the educated, the rich, graduate degree holders, PHDs, Masters degrees.
Easy to tap away at the keyboard, spouting opinions. When brought up, nose-to-nose against the gritty reality of ordinary life, the answers of these weekend warriors is…silence.
Over to you, Oigal. Go for gold, Australia.
Achmad,
you are right, of course. We should all immediately follow your wonderful initiative to give the poor a voice in this blog. They will surely appreciate it. And it will also help them. I for one will cut short my stay abroad to interview as many poor as possible. It will make me feel good, the poor visible, you happy, and the world a better place. I apologize for not having followed you any sooner.
Assmad,
1. As I said its a moot point, He and his cronies will never stand trial, the only thing that saddens me is people like yourself you seem to defend the human cost (but then again to expected I guess, that’s why people like him get away with it).
2. Questions are wank, gee you could asked those questions in any nation in the word and get the same answer “Why in my day son….”
3. Janma effectively summed your position up (in about 100,000 less words).
is it like”¦ ok to beat my kids as long as I clothe and feed them?
4. In reality, little has changed (you cannot seriously believe the people are being asked to comment on a functioning democracy)..The situation reminds me of the move “ARMY OF DARKNESS (a silly but amusing film) where when a great big Evil F##K#R gets attacked and suddenly breaks up into a a gazillion little Evil F##K#Rs..I leave it to you to figure out who plays what parts in Indonesia
Patung,
Many thanks. But let’s wait and see. Any reaction from readers is an interesting one.
Oigal,
I’m not saying anything’s ok or not ok. I just want to record what ordinary people have to say.
Interesting you think that’s a “wank.” Maybe they shouldn’t be allowed to vote if they give the “wrong” answers.
In reality, little has changed (you cannot seriously believe the people are being asked to comment on a functioning democracy).
Nearly all of the people interviewed so far think the situation’s changed. Do you know more about their reality than they do ?
Any chance of a comments from your neck of the woods?
No need to ask this questions now in Bali. A little more than 5 years ago any critical opinion vanished in favour of Suharto.
In Suharto’s days tourism was blooming, bombing of tourist venues (read: livelihood) was something beyond imagination and corruption wasn’t yet democratised.
Dewa,
Are you sure ? Do you speak for the people ? So hard to just ask three close by and see what they say ?
Dear All,
If you only talk about it, but don’t get around to writing it down. Mission accomplished.
Anyone in Aceh, Papua, Lampung, or East Timor, thoughts especially welcome.
Well, I’m not surprised by the symphathy expressed by our “orang2 kecil”. With respect to those questions, interpreted verbatim, I would also answer positively myself.
What I’m not so sure is if we actually learn anything from this….
Nearly all of the people interviewed so far think the situation’s changed. Do you know more about their reality than they do
Fair point, ok how about for many people it has changed for the worse..but is that because democracy is not working or that the people have yet again been betrayed by corrupt and inept leaders?
Whilst on common comments, how about things we better in those days because there was only one king corrupter..instead of democrary now the people have lots of little nasty corruptors..
By the way, as it seems to be all about economics..whats the going ratio for dead people per percentage of national growth in GDP.. It seems to be a central theme to point just wondering if its subjective or not.
Pak Oigal,
Is this what they said ?
hings we better in those days because there was only one king corrupter..instead of democrary now the people have lots of little nasty corruptors..
If so, then fair enough. Questions were supposed to be open-ended ie “was life better” and “how would you rate Soeharto?”
Ratio of people murdered by the state/per GDP point or GDP per capita. That’s a good idea as well. Maybe suggest it to the Economist’s economics page and pitch it to the UN to tack on to their human development index.
WP: What do we learn ?
Yes, I agree – the two questions are a blunt instrument.
1. just a gauge of what ordinary people have to say. Indonesia has a big internet divide and such opinions only usually get into the blogosphere 3rd or 4th hand. Questions have to be simple if you’re talking to pemulung who didn’t finish high school.
2. They’re the majority of voters. Want a democracy ? Get politicians, who need to get re-elected. But let’s wait ’till Friday and see if we get any more comments before weighing it up.
Achmad:
But let’s wait ’till Friday and see if we get any more comments before weighing it up.
I doubt you’ll get much variation from the oppinions you already have. They pretty much sum up how our ‘common folk’ feel.
Achmad: They’re the majority of voters. Want a democracy ?
That’s not a right question!! We are (supposedly) the better educated group. On us lies the responsibility to provide advices and leadership according to our wisdom. That is our role. If we do not think what the majority of the common folk think/feel is constructive, we should tell them so. Of course in the end it is democracy all right; so they have their right to choose whom they want to listen to.
WP,
On us lies the responsibility to provide advices and leadership according to our wisdom. That is our role. If we do not think what the majority of the common folk think/feel is constructive, we should tell them so.
Cute, WP, Cute. And who’s the more powerful group ?
Also
– Who’s to say they’re representative ? You apparently, as we’re part of the “more educated group.” Also,
– It’s not a matter of the “right” question. Politicians must have a sense of the way the ‘rakyat’ feel. Maybe that’s part of the equation as to why they don’t want to see Soeharto in the dock.
Achmad: And who’s the more powerful group ?
I don’t know. Ideally that should not be an issue. The two groups complement each other. They should learn to work together rather than competing with each other.
Achmad:
– It’s not a matter of the “right” question. Politicians must have a sense of the way the ‘rakyat’ feel.
Well, you were the one that suggested, between the lines, that ignoring people’s opinion would be undemocratic. While that was obviously true, I merely pointed out that there are more to it. Anyway, I agree wholeheartedly that politicians should be acutely aware of people’s sentiment. But let me again caution that being “aware” and providing “leadership” are not the same thing.
Maybe that’s part of the equation as to why they don’t want to see Soeharto in the dock.
Well I don’t know about that. My position regarding Soeharto is that as long as we have nothing solid then we simply have no case. Given the historical context in which all those bad things happen, I also find it too cheesy to put all the blame on him. We, as the people, also have our share of sins and responsibility. Afterall it is the people who let him make all the calls. When things went good (e.g. in 70s and 80s) we simply didn’t care. We (or rather, my parents :D, I was still a kid playing with mud) saw signs that things were not going the right way, yet we looked the other way.
Oh well, sorry for ranting 😀
WP –
Rants, that’s what Blogs are for ?
Whether or not there’s a case against Soeharto is for the AG’s to decide.
TW are you Indonesian ?
Given the historical context in which all those bad things happen, I also find it too cheesy to put all the blame on him. We, as the people, also have our share of sins and responsibility. Afterall it is the people who let him make all the calls. When things went good (e.g. in 70s and 80s) we simply didn’t care. We (or rather, my parents :D, I was still a kid playing with mud) saw signs that things were not going the right way, yet we looked the other way.
Oigal, see this above ? Is WP “wrong” ? What should he be thinking ? Is he defending a despot, or is it just that realities are as dark as those nights of terror in ’65-’66.
AL JAZEERA: “THE LEGACY OF A DICTATOR” (17.1.08):
PART 1 : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9AlgoDlaUsU
PART 2 : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHwEd9aQGi4
Achmad: TW are you Indonesian ?
Depend on how you define “indonesian” 😀 But yea, i would call myself very indonesian.
I asked 5 different people, most of them rakyat kecil. Three of them became evasive, which is also an indicator, but for a different subject. The other two, one of them a middle class small entrepreneur, the other an artist painter with less means, both of them married with 2 small children below SMP, definitely agreed that life was better under Suharto, economically and security wise. As to Suharto’s personality they were less outspoken, but they agreed that in his days people didn’t dare to speak their minds. They kept their opinion for themselves but this didn’t bother them a lot. They all agreed that after Suharto corruption became more visible.
Ok Folks,
Well approaching a week. We’ve had nearly a 100 % response along the following lines.
* Life was better in economic terms under Soeharto.
* Economic terms are mainly what counts to the respondees (cari makan).
* Security was also better under Soeharto than under reformasi. People feel ‘safer’ now.
* Soeharto is perceived as someone cruel who got the job done.
That seems to be pretty consistent across the board from a number of respondees.
Any thoughts, folks ?
Achmad.
Quite unfortunately we don’t have similar enquete *during* Soeharto’s time, so that we can compare responses.
From my own personal experience witnessing events in 1997-1998, there was a sudden and rapidly growing feeling/awareness of (suffering from) repression and unfairness among the population. This sentiment was crucial in tipping the balance, as the population eventually chosed to side with the Reformation.
But I suppose people now already forget that.
The way I see it, the opinions from Achmad respondents reflect the unspoken regret for opening the Box of Pandora back in 1998. The devils are out now, and there is no going back. It is understandable that people now long for stability and prosperity. And of course they will think back to Soeharto time.
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So…….. is it like… ok to beat my kids as long as I clothe and feed them?
But, whatever, it’s a good and interesting idea, and Janma intrepid reporter of the unvoiced masses, shall go forth!