Ahmadiyya
Jan 16th, 2008, in News, by PatungAhmadiyah makes changes to its beliefs and avoids being banned by the government.
Continued from Religious Intolerance and Banning Islamic Sects.
No Ban
Pakem (Pengawas Aliran Kepercayaan Masyarakat, Overseers of the Peoples’ Beliefs), made up of representatives of the Attorney General’s Office, police, the State Intelligence Agency and the Religious Affairs Ministry, decided on 15th January not to ban Ahmadiyya, despite a fatwa by the Indonesian Ulema Council (MUI) that had declared Ahmadiyya an heretical Islamic sect. antara
Teacher not Prophet
The decision not to ban the group was made after Ahmadiyya leaders caved into pressure and issued a 12-point statement saying they acknowledged Muhammad as the last prophet, and that Mirza Ghulam Ahmad was simply a teacher.
Pakem however said it may change its decision if Ahmadiyya failed to fully implement the changes to its formal belief structure, and gave the group 3 months to do so. detik
Wisnu Subroto, the deputy attorney general of intelligence, said:
We will keep watching and evaluating their activities over the next three months. If Ahmadiyya fails to follow through on their declaration, we will discuss later what to do about it.
Jemaat Ahmadiyah Indonesia (JAI) leader Ahmad Basit said his group had the same beliefs as mainstream Islam.
Like other Muslims, Ahmadiyya followers also recite syahadat (the two sentences of faith), acknowledging Muhammad as the last prophet. Mirza Ghulam Ahmad is only our teacher.
Ahmadiyya also said they would not try to convert other Muslims to their way of thinking, but said they would instead strengthen relations with mainstream Muslims.
Wisnu asked the public to respect Ahmadiyya’s goodwill and willingness to change, and accept Pakem’s decision.
Still not happy
However about 1,000 Muslims staged a protest in Bandung, West Java to demand the government disband Ahmadiyya. Hedi Muhammad from the West Java Alliance of Muslims said:
The Ahmadiyah organization is as heretical as Al-Qiyadah al-Islamiyah.
And the Majelis Ulama Indonesia (MUI) leader Ma’ruf Amin said Ahmadiyya’s decision to acknowledge Muhammad as the final prophet was not enough to lift the fatwa from the group. Saying that Mirza Ghulam Ahmad was simply a teacher could be interpreted in various ways, worried Maruf. republika
This article in Indonesian – Ahmadiyyah.
196 Comments on “Ahmadiyya”
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abu.khurshid says:
Abdullah Bhai,
I shall reply you in parts.Your comments:”Ahmediyya or better know as Qaidianis have few sects within themselves from where they have a difference in opinions on the caliphs of their founder Mr Mirza. Many false prophets have come after Prophet Mohammed pbuh and so will they continue. I have met you on the streets of London handing out your pamphlets to all that goes past you to give them dawa to your false religion that uses Islam as the platform as the pure and divine.”
you read and understand the history of Islam, after the demise of our beloved Holy Prophet (SAL), there came divisions among the believers. So it is not a new thing for us. At the same time here also the Caliphate emerged and it is still continuing. The Ahmadis who follow the Caliphate are doing the same what the earlier muslims did. What is wrong in it ? If they have not followed, then you could question them.
Many false prophets have emerged. It is true. At the same time they were all vanished. No trace about their activities. Is it true or not? The Almighty destroyed them completey as foretold in the Holy Quran. However, when a person proclaimed as a prophet, showed evidences for his truth, he was followed by millions and you have a history of more than 130 years with you. This is a clear sign for the Non-Ahmadis that he is a true Prophet of Allah who was prophesied by our Holy Prophet (SAL). What is wrong in it.
Not only we are in the streets of London to propagate Islam. You can get us in any part of the world. We have a website http://www.alislam.org and a satellite TV MTA where we propagate the true teachings of our beloved Holy Prophet of Allah and spread Islam and doing service to mankind. What is wrong in it ? If we have not done, then you have to ask us. Pls mention what sort of false dawa we are doing?
We shall Insha Allah answer all allegations levelled by you.
Abu Khurshid
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Abdullah Bhai,
Your comments continues….
“The Muslim Ummah must be united in seeing the signs of prophethood. Mr Miza does not show much that has been attributed to him from above. Infact, he met his death in a toilet and believed trains were the sign of the anti-christ. More to the truth, he was a puppet of the British Raj to quel the Islamic uprising to kick their butts out of Hindustan so that a muslim country can be established (Pakistan) as a result.
I ask any Ahmediyya to openly challenge me on the truth. You founder was not a new prophet nor was he Jesus nor was he Imam Mehdi nor was he a spiritually teacher. All signs of today shows Imam Mehdi and Jesus pboh are to come as man advances furhter into the future as defined by the Creator so that soon Man will want to challange the Creator.”
I think you have not read any of his books or read articles of people who visited him and accompanied him till his death. There are plenty of signs happened to this servant of Allah. He was not a puppet of British Raj. Nor he is a an agent of British as claimed by the opponents of Hazrat Ahmad (AS). This is moth-eaten, rotten allegation levelled by the opponents. This tale was now copied by you which had no evidence from your predecessors and you project this allegation against the founder of Ahmadiyyah movement. Whereas he was threatened by the Christian leaders of British Raj. These are recorded in the history. They warned their government to severely punish him who was destroying their Christianity, their belief and faith.
British agent: What logic you have to claim this. You know the basic fundemental belief of British, the Christian belief is that Jesus Christ is God. He would descend from Heaven in the later days. Whereas you claim that Hazrat Ahmad was groomed by British, the Christians to say that their God i.e., Jesus Christ is dead and buried in Kashmir ( he even pointed out the place of burial) and wont come again. Do you think that the British wants someone from their side to say that their God is dead. Pls think about it. Dont copy these baseless stories.
For your information, the time of this servant of Allah, the muslims are very well down in defending their faith. Their names are muslims and they are 100% christians. There is no uprsing of Islam during this period. The christian missionaries claimed that very soon they would fly their Holy Cross flag over Makkah and Madina. This was the true situation at that time.
Again you would come with story of Jewish agent. If we give who are the Jewish agents, you would start telling, he was LTTE agent, then Bush Agent, American Agent and even then there is no end it would end up with Sandal wood smuggler, killer Veerappan agent. Actually he is the real agent of Hazrat Muhammad (SAL).
Toilet Story: I think you did not copy this story from the right source. It was earlier in his house toilet and now in train toilet. Anyway pls check it may be in a steamer ship toilet or an Airplane toilet. Once you confirm this we could continue …..
Still to come….
Abu. Khurshid.
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Muchamad Minako-sukamito says:
Problem with Ahmadiyyas
The fact of the matter is none of the sects of Islam practically believe in finality of Prophet Muhammad. Talk to any Muslim, whether wahabi or Shi’ets, orthodox or liberal they all are waiting for a literal descent of Jesus, the son of Marry, serving the same cause as of evangelical Christians, in fact. In addition they all are waiting for Imam Mahdi who will eventually fulfill Muhammad’s unfinished job of Islam’s victory over other religions by killing infidels. Muslim scriptures have greatly emphasized on the high status of Imam Mahdi which is not less than a prophet. Shiets, for instance, believe in the coming of 12th Imam whose divine powers are close to a deity itself. The so called ‘Tablighi’ group who demonstrate their power by gathering millions of Muslims in Indonesia, Pakistan and Bangladesh each year depicting them as fore-runner for the awaited Imam.
Jamiah Islamia, the so called ‘main stream’ Muslims, based on Wahabism, frequently named as fundamentalists in their beliefs cannot, under any interpretation, deny the coming of Jesus and the Imam Mahdi after the Prophet Muhammad. Therefore, Muhammad cannot be the last Prophet in any manner, be it the order of appearance or by accomplishment of the tasks given. Prophet Muhammad himself foretold the 2nd coming of Jesus and the Imam Mahdi and instructed the followers to follow them whenever they appear. Hence, coming of someone after Prophet Muhammad with great stature as that of a prophet is part of every Muslim’s core believes. Therefore, accusing Ahmadiyyas for following a mere person as Prophet does not make any sense. The whole debate is revolving around continuation of Prophet hood after Muhammad which is actually an ‘agreed upon’ issue and should not be the cause of any conflict. -
Laeeq says:
Hello every one
Peace be upon you!
Since we don’t know who will go to the hell or paradise, we should shut our mouths,
and should pray for our salvage. The situation fo Muslims is very grimm. It seems like that they will all go to the hell.
If you even have a brain of a peanut size, you can figure it out.May allh solve our problems.
derwesh
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Orange43 says:
I just have to say what do any of you know about ahmadiyyat???? Do you know why we believe Mirza Ghulam Ahmad over the rest of the muslim community???Huh???
Didn’t think so….. I’m a proud Ahmadi and I will explain a good reason using the REAL Jihad…of the pen!!! Ahmadiyyat is a very peaceful sect of Islam, I mean have you ever heard of Ahmadi terrorists attackin whatever country they can??? Have you???
Nope you haven’t because we believe in not attacking people just because they say a couple of rude comments about Islam!!! We have mercy one them and pray to Allah that He could show them the right path, we don;t fight them…. and why should us Muslims fight with each other….remember when the Hollandish person did those comments and cartoons of our beloved prophet???? Or when he made that movie that I dare not say its name??? We all stood together, despite the fact that we all believe different things….so why fight over what we believe???? we believe Muhammad was the Seal of The Prophets, and Mirza Ghulam Ahmad only revived the true Islam, where did everybody get the idea that he claimed he was the last prophet??? from your moms and dads???? they are wrong, and this is all from a website and I shall give it to everybody so that way you could at least get an Idea of what we believe, and may God have mercy on all of your souls, and hopefully he will lead youo to the right path,
Alislam.org and askislam.org, they are very helpful in telling what we believe and hopefully you “muslims” could get a better insite BEFORE you say anything… -
khalid says:
Jama’at Ahmadiyya has no legal authority to collect chanda. If Ahmadis are paying Chanda they are paying it voluntarily.
The Holy Prophet of Islam (saw) used to appeal for financial sacrifice as need arose. It is a well know incidence that when the Holy Prophet (saw) once appealed, Hazrat Abu Bakr (ra) brought the everything in his house. Similarly Hazrat Umar (ra) brought half of that he had in his house. Hazrat Usman (ra) donated hundreds of camels. Hazrat Ali (ra) used to do labor and donate whatever he got.
Muslim Sunrise did a pretty good job at answering all the objections raised by pleezponder.
Pleezponder – there are thousands of Mullahs that have the same beliefs as Aluang Anak Bayang. Why are you so surprised at this? Haven’t you read books on the Mahdi (as) and Promised Messiah. These Mullahs are waiting for the bloody Mehdi to come and kill all the infidels. Either the infidels believe forthwith or they will be killed. This idea is wrong and against Islam. But poor Mullah has this last hope to come to power. They are waiting for that golden age. When the bloody Mahdi will distribute gold and wealth. So much so that people will refuse to accept. This fantasy has made mullahs corrupt. The Mullahs who hold the above beliefs, it is very hard for them to be loyal to a non-Muslim government. Or even to a Muslim government with different brand of Islam.
The majority of Mullah have become hypocrites. When they are in Pakistan or Indonesia they have different definition of Jehad. When they come to western countries they have different definitions. Every Muslim should know that hypocrisy is worst than kufr. Because hypocrite will burn in the deepest valleys of hell (according to a Hadith)
Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad re-taught Muslims to be obey the established government and not to start rebellion. He also told the Muslims not to kill innocent people just because of religious differences. He brought back the real teachings of the Holy Prophet (saw) of Islam. You will find hundreds of books in different Islamic sect that contain the wrong concept of Jihad. That is to kill other people because of religious differences.
Ahmadis has kept the same view on Jehad for more than hundred years. But the views of these Mullah’s are dependent on where they are or who they are talking to.
How can you test that you are a hypocrite or not? I will believe that you are not a hypocrite if you write a book in Urdu about the true teachings of Jehad and get it published in Pakistan. Then you translate into English and publish it in Canada without any change. That will be a test case.
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Very logical posts from Muchamad Minako-sukamito and abu.khursheed.
Abdullah Bhai “Hatu Burhanakum In Kuntum Sadiqeen”
Abdullah bhai – If I were you I would not mention the toilet story. Because I have heard numerous incidents where the Mullahs who used say that Mirza Sahib (Naudhu Billah) died that way and they did ended up dieing in their own filth or city sewage. Allah has promised him that “I will humiliate every one who even tries to humiliate you”. We have seen this revelation come true again and again. So please don’t invite Allah’s wrath.
May Allah guide everyone to his right path.
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Hitam Tapi Cina says:
As far as I am concern, it is the Jammia Islamia and other extremely violent wahabist which should be banned from existence.
Every person has his/her right to believe in any religion as long as they do not commit any crime, including the Ahmadiyah.
Those who commit violence in the name of any religion are not martyrs but only criminals.
Violence in Islam is a crime against humanity.
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Miss Rufo Bashiruddeen says:
If Mirza Ghulam Qadiani was a nabi or a devine person, God must have given him death differently. Allah Tala made his death an example for Qadianis and made it a constant reminder and a clear sign that they are on the wrong path.
When it is said he died in the toilet, it has a lot of credibility; can be taken literally. Please read the last moments of Mirza qadiani (in seerat ul mahdi written by Mirza Bashir M A, son of Mirza Ghulam Qadiani. )
Ref: qarchives.com/misc/Seeratul_Mahdi_1.pdf
pdf page 13 of 296
Narration no. 12Mirza Bashir says:
“Mother said, mgaq had first loose motion at the time of dinner. But after that we kept pressing his feet for some time. He lay down and slept and I went to sleep too. After sometime, he felt the need to go to toilet and probably once or twice he went to toilet to relieve himself. After that he felt very weak and shook me to wake me up. When I woke up, he was so weak that he lay down on my bed and started pressing his feet. After a while, mgaq asked me to go to sleep. I said no, I will continue pressing. In the meantime he had another loose motion. This time the weakness was so much that he could not go to toilet therefore I made arrangements by the bed and he relieved himself there and then again laid down. I continued pressing his feet. But now, the weakness was too much . After that he had a loose motion and vomit. When he was lying down, he could not hold himself due to weakness and fell on his back. and he hit his head with wooden plank of the bed and condition became very miserable. Upon this I said – O god, what is about to happen- mgaq said, – what I used to say “
If you read above eyewitness acount of Mirza’s last moments narrated by his wife, there is no doubt that he died surrounded by his own $*it. Thats why it said that he died in toilet.
More importantly, all this was recorded by his own son and wife, and his own admission that he is afflicted with Cholera was recorded by his father in law. Do you not see Allah’s sign here….. making it so obnvious and so clear that Mirza was not the one who He was pleased with….
If these moments were recorded by anyone other than Mirza’s close relatives, ghulam ahmedis would have denied them all together. But they cannot do that now..Mirza sb was perfectly well hours before his death, suddenly had attacks of lose motions and vomiting coupled with extreem weakness…. is this sign of Cholera??? Yes as confirmed by a great “SAHABI” and father in law of mgaq Mir Nasir Nawab, in another book “hayat-e-Nasir” , the following statement by mgaq is quoted “NAWAB SAHEB, I AM AFFLICTED WITH EPIDEMIC CHOLERA.”
Need I say more??
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The reality is that the argument needs to return to the ability of the State to regulate belief and to ban religions. The arguments on the pros and cons of the fundamentals of Ahmadiyya beliefs and their validity in Islam are for scholars far more skilled than I in these matters.
In a very simplistic way though isn’t the point of Miss Rufo one which would make divine sense to Muslims throughout the world; that is if Ahmadiyya is a sect that perverts the teachings of Allah that were given to the Prophet Muhammad then is it not true also that Allah will punish those that offend on the day of judgment?
Can we as humans presuppose to know the mind of God?
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Sorry Rob.
Miss Rufo
I would again say with respect that everybody who dies suffer at the time of death to some degree. There has been no death without any suffering at all. No one can claim that when his death comes he will not suffer. So suffering at the time of death does not tell if that person is truthful or not.
The thing is he did no die as you want us to believe. But I should warn you that it has happened again and again to the people who cross the boundaries of decency in this regard. Allah promised him that “He will humiliate the one who will try to humiliate you”. If you persist saying this and do not do Tauba, I believe that Allah will certainly show to the world your ugly end. Insha Allah.
Hazrat Ahmad was the Promised Messiah (as) and “maseel” (similar) of the Messiah. This Ummah is “maseel” of the jews. The Holy Prophet (saw) said that my ummah will be so similar to jew as one shoe is similar to the other from the same pair. He also said that if someone from the jews raped her mother, there will be some (cursed) that would do the same in my ummah.
Jews say that Jesus (as) died a cursed death on cross (Naudhu Billah). Similarly the Muslims (who have to be similar to them) say that Hazrat Ahmad (as) (the Promised Messiah) died a cursed death.
This is another sign of the truth of the Promised one. May Allah open your eyes.
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Oigal says:
Quite an interesting read..Anyone who thinks a rational debate can be held with rabid believers in the big guy/gal in the sky theory has all the proof they need here that it can’t be done.
I’m right and everyone is else is wrong is hardly a starting point for a debate..not a bad end zone for needless bloodshed tho..
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Why Mirza qadiani declared Jihad abrogated….
Hear from horse’s mouth.
Ref: Roohani Khazine, Kitab al Bariya pages 6-7-8-9-10
Mirza addressing the British Sarkar and says:
“I hail from a family that is a firm well wisher of this Government. My father Mirza Ghulam Murtaza was viewed by government as a loyal and well wisher and was awarded a chair in the court of Governor and who is mentioned in Mr. Griffon’s ( book) History of Lords ( Raees) of Punjab. And in 1857 [pl. see my foot note] he helped the government beyond his means that is he provided them with 50 horses and fighters right during the time of rebellion. Because of those services he received many letters of appreciation from authorities. I feel sorry that many of them have been lost but three letters that have been published are reproduced here in the footnote.”
(After that you will see the letter of appreciation in English with Urdu translation side by side.)
After the death of my father and my brother, I was living my life quietly. However, I have been using the power of my pen in aide and support of English Sarkar. Whatever books I wrote during that period; all contained motivation for obedience and sympathy for English Sarkar and I wrote very effective speeches AGAINST JIHAD. And as a suitable strategy, in order to propagate this instruction of abrogation of Jihad, I authored books in Arabic and Farsi and spent thousands of rupees on their printing.
All those books were published in Arabia, Syrian countries, Rome (its Muslim Turkish Empire of the time), Egypt and Baghdad and Afghanistan. I am certain that these books will show their impact sometime. Do you expect such a huge work from someone who has rebellious thoughts? Then I ask whatever have I done for the protection and favor of English Sarkar and for seventeen years I zealously and firmly worked to stop JIHADI ideologies; can you show me an example of this work, this special service for such a long period from amongst those Muslims who are against me? If I did not publish those books as a true well wisher of English Sarkar, then what reward was I expecting by publishing those books in Syrian countries, Rome and other Islamic countries? This is not work of few days; rather its work of seventeen years. Here are all those books and booklets that contain those writings (against Jihad) with page numbers where well wishes and obedience of English Sarkar is mentioned.
FN: This is referred as war of freedom by most in Sub-continent and certainly by Muslim clergy who viewed British rule as Christian occupation of Muslim rules in India. And as such declared fight against occupation as obligatory – declared Jihad against occupiers. British and its collaborators call it Rebellion.
KHALID
So suffering at the time of death does not tell if that person is truthful or not.
I agree with you to some extent. But you should know the context of Mirza’s death. He actually presented his death as a sign between liar and truthful. He made a humble prayer to Almighty in the following words:
quote:
“O My Beloved Lord! If this claim of Promised Messiah is just a fabrication of my nafs and I am a LIAR and TROUBLE-MAKER (mufsid) in your eyes and day and night fabrications is my job then O My Beloved Lord, I plead you humbly to kill me in the lifetime of Molvi Sanaullah … but not with human hands rather with PLAGUE OR CHOLERA etc like deadly diseases … Now I plead you to make a truthful jusdgement between me and Sanaullah and whoever is truly LIAR and MUFSID, kill him in the lifetime of the truthful. AMEEN SUMMA AMEEN.”
(Advertisement dated 15th April 1907 by Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, Collection of Advertisement vol.3 p.578-579)
Allah Tala gave death to Mirza ghulam Qadiani in 1908 with cholera like deadly disease. Molvi Sanaullah lived for another 40 years…..
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Miss Rufo
This is not the whole story. Hazrat Mirza Sahib invited Maulvi Sanaullah Sahib Amratsari for prayer duel (Mobahila in Islamic terminology). That whoever is truthful in the eyes of Allah dies in the life of the other party. Mobahela needs two parties. If the other party do not agree then there is no Mobahila. The Holy Prophet (saw) challenged Christians of Najran for Mobahila. They did not accept it. Huzoor (saw) said that had they accepted it they would have all died in a year. They did not accept it so they were saved. After the Holy Prophet (saw) passed away some of them were still alive. Was it right for them to claim that since they outlived the Holy Prophet (saw) they were true. No certainly not.
The challenge of Mobahila you quoted was published on April 15, 1907. At the beginning of this challenge he starts it with
“Maulvi Sanaullah Sahib ke saath akhri faisala”. So it was not a one-sided prayer rather it was a challenge for Maulvi Sahib.
and in the end he says
“In the end I request Maulvi Sahib to publish this article in his newspaper. And write in its end whatever he wants.” It is clear from this that it was a challenge for Mobahila.The above clearly indicates that the above was a Mobahila.
Maulvi Sanaullah did not agreed to participate in this Mobahila. There are ample proofs of that.
Maulvi Sanaullah Sahib in response to Hazrat Mirza Sahib’s (as) challenge, that (the response) was published in his newspaper “Ahl-e-Hadith” dated April 26, 1907.
“Show us a sign that will serve as a warning to us. If I die then how will I see it (the sign)”
” I am competing with you. If I die how will that be a sign (he used Hujjat) other people. Since according to you Maulvi Ghulam Dastageer Qasoori, Maulvi Ismail Aligarrhi and Doctor Dowie (American) died. So did the people accepted you (because of these). So if this (his death) happens to what will be the result”
“This statement (referring to Hazrat Mirza Sahib’s (as) challenge) is not acceptable to me. Nor will it be acceptable to any sane person.”
Then his assistant editor wrote in the same newspaper
“Quran say that badkar life is extended by God” (Quran to kehta hai keh badkaron ko khuda se muhlat milti hai)Then Maulvi Sahib wrote in his book ” Muraqa Qadiani”
“The Holy Prophet (saw) died before Musailma Kazzab despite he was a true Prophet. And Musailma despite being false died after him”. (published in August 1907).The above clearly proves that Maulvi Sahib did not accept the challenge for Mobahila.
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It is false that Hazrat Mirza Sahib (as) died of cholera.
Miss Rufu says
Allah Tala gave death to Mirza ghulam Qadiani in 1908 with cholera like deadly disease.There is documented proof that Hazrat Ahmad (as) did not die from cholera. A death certificate was issued by the civil surgeon at that time. It said that Hazrat Mirza Sahib (as) passed away due to diarrhea not because of cholera.
Hazrat Ahmad (as)’s body was taken on rail from Lahore to Batala. It was law at that time that if anyone died from contagious disease like cholera, his body was not allowed on train.
The station master was told by some opponent that Hazrat Mirza Sahib (as) died from cholera. He tried to stop the Ahmadis who were taking his body by train. Ahmadis produced the certificate from the civil surgeon. So he could not stop them.
These are the facts that cannot be refuted. So La’natullahe Alal Kazibeen (Allah’s curse on the liar)
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Khalid
You had to resort to lies and half truth to protect Mirza Ghulam Qadiani.
IT WAS NOT A MUBAHLA CHALLENGE. IT WAS A HUMBLE PRAYER BY MIRZA AND HE GAVE ADVERTISEMENT “Maulvi Sanaullah Sahib ke saath akhri faisala”. WHICH TRANSLATES TO “FINAL DECISION WITH MOLVI SANAULLA”
Even your Khalifa 2, Basheeruddin Memood in – Tash-heezl azhan vol. 3, page 284 ” Calling that prayer, which was published by Mirza sahib, a MUBAHLA ; if it is not wrong then what it is..In this prayer neither Mirza saheb nor Molvi Sanualla swore, despite that declaring it a MUBAHLA by his own definition proves it false”
SO IT WAS NOT A MUBAHLA AS NEITHER PARTY SWOR.
If you want us to believe that It was a Mibahla then I dare you to translate that advertisement and show us where it says the ad says its a MUBAHLA.
Now, the decision came very clearly, You can decidewho you want to believe;– Allah Tala who made Mirza Sahab say that ” I am afflicted with epidemic Cholera” and made his F.I. Law Mir Nasir Nawab to record this amazing statement as a proof for coming generations. ( remember mgaq prayed for it!!!) And gave death to Mirza sahab in the life of Molvi Sanaullah Sahab.
– Mirza Sahab, who knew his condition well and described that as Cholera. His wife narrated the last moments of his death to their son Mirza Bashir M A who recorded the details in seera tul mehdi. Pl look at serat ul mahdi gems thread for more. The eye witness account of his disease; sudden attack of lose motions and vomit are signs of CHOLERA. ( eye winess account mentioned in Seera tul mahsi given in previous posts)
– Ahmedi researchers, who would have never said otherwise because of their bias.
READ THE ADVERTISEMENT AGAIN , READ THE PRAYER BY MIRZA AND TAKE NOTE OF “PLAGUE OR CHOLERA etc like deadly diseases …”
Don’t you see the resounding decision of Allah Tala.
Please open your eyes and see the falsehood which is so very evident. Read Mirza Qadianis own books, TRANSLATE HIS BOOKS AS ALL OF THEM ARE IN URDU AND MOST PROBABLY YOU DON’T READ THEM AND RELY ON DISTORTED INFORMATION.
READ WITYH YOUR OWN EYES AND SEE HIS FALSEHOOD.
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Khalid
READ THE ADVERTISEMENT AGAIN , READ THE PRAYER BY MIRZA AND TAKE NOTE OF “PLAGUE OR CHOLERA etc like deadly diseases …”
The symptoms that were described by Mirza’s wife were so close to Cholera that Mirza himself told his Father in Law before his death, “I am afflicted with epidemic cholera”Hayat-eNasir page 7 by Mir Nasir Nawab.
If you notice, Miorza prayed for “plague or Cholera etc like deadly diseases” so he died of Cholera like disease.
PLEASE OPEN YOUR EYES..READ MIRZA;S OWN BOOKS….. DON’T TAKE MY WORDS FOR IT, TRUST YOUR OWN JUDGEMENT. OR COME HERE http://www.thecult.info/forum
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Miss Rufo Says
Even your Khalifa 2, Basheeruddin Memood in – Tash-heezl azhan vol. 3, page 284 ” Calling that prayer, which was published by Mirza sahib, a MUBAHLA ; if it is not wrong then what it is..In this prayer neither Mirza saheb nor Molvi Sanualla swore, despite that declaring it a MUBAHLA by his own definition proves it false”SO IT WAS NOT A MUBAHLA AS NEITHER PARTY SWOR.
My response:
Hazrat Khalifa Sani said that it was not Mobahila. Yes we say that Mobahila did not take place because Maulvi Sahib did not swear. But Hazrat Mirza Sahib’s statement was a “Da’wat-e-Mobahila” (invitation or challenge of Mobahila) as our Holy Prophet (saw) gave “Da’wat-e-Mobahila” to the christians of Najran. But the Mobahila never took place.What is Da’wat-e-Mobahila? There are two parties. One of them invites the other to pray with the first one to ask for Allah’s decision. Whichever one of them is on the wrong path and hiding the truth, may Allah show his sign and destroy that party. The Holy Prophet (saw) invited the Christians of Najran for Mobahila.
What is Mobahila? When the other party accepts the challenge or invitation of Mobahila. Then can say that it is Mobahila. Hazrat Khalifa Sani (ra) when he said that it was not Mobahila meant that it was not accepted by Maulvi Sahib. Since in order for it to be considered Mobahila the other party (Maulvi Sanaullah Sahib) had to accept it. But as I have shown that he never accepted Hazrat Mirza Sahib’s (as) “Da’wat-e-Mobahila”
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I have already stated that Hazrat Mirza Sahib (as) did not die of cholera. The proof is the certificate from the civil surgeon. The second proof is that Ahmadis were able to take his body by train from Lahore to Battala. There were strict rules that anybody who died from cholera cannot be transported on rail.
Had he even died from cholera, it would not have been an issue. Because although the statement dated April 15, 1907 was a “Da’wat-e-Mobahila” (invitation of Mobahila), Maulvi Sahib never accepted Mobahila. So no Mobahila actually took place.
Now 100 years have passed. Let us see what Maulvi Sanaullah himself perceived “statement dated April 15, 1907” to be. Because he was one of the parties. He must have read it again and again. He writes:
“Krishn Qadiani (meaning Hazrat Mirza Sahib (as)) on April 15, 1907 published an ad (ishtahar) of Mobahila with me” (Muraqa Qadiani June 1908 page 18)“Mirza Ji had published a long Ishtahar (ad) of Mobahila” (Muraqa Qadiani December 1907)
“He had shouted in his Ishtahar (ad) for Mobahila April 15, 1907 that Ahl-e-Hadith (Maulvi Sahib’s paper) has shaken the building (of his Jama’at)” (Ahl-e-Hadith June 19, 1907)
The above published writings of Maulvi Sanaullah Sahib clearly show, without any doubt, that he considered “Ishtahar April 15, 1907” to be and invitation of Mobahila.
I have already proven that Maulvi Sahib did not accept the Mobahila. I have quoted his own words in a previous quote. I think even you agree with me that Maulvi Sahib did not accept the Mobahila.
Since there was no Mobahila death of Mirza Sahib cannot me considered due to any Mobahila. Everyone has to die some day. Even prophets die. There is no prophet that is still alive. We don’t believe that prophets are immortal. We don’t believe that prophet don’t suffer from illnesses.
As far as Hazrat Mirza Sahib (as) spent a very active life. On the evening of the 25th he completed his beautiful book “Paigham-e-Sulha” (A message of Peace). He passed on to the next world after completing his mission in this world in a few hour without much suffering. I would consider it an ideal death. May be you want to linger on like a vegetable for years on you death bed.
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Miss Rufo said
Allah Tala gave death to Mirza ghulam Qadiani in 1908 with cholera like deadly disease. Molvi Sanaullah lived for another 40 years…..
I have already proven that Hazrat Mirza Sahib (as) did not die from cholera.
Now let us see how Allah treated Maulvi Sanaullah Sahib. He was a champion for the cause of Islam according to you. So he must have been rewarded by Allah Ta’ala.
Maulvi Sanaullah Sahib was of the view that false opponent dies after a truthful person. Musailma Kazzab did not die in the life time of the Holy Prohet (saw). This is evident from the following.
His assistant editor wrote in the same newspaper
“Quran say that rebellious people’s (badkar) life is extended by God”Then he says
“These (verses of the Holy Quran) clearly mean that Allah Ta’ala extends lives of liars, deceivers, Mufsid, and transgressors, so that they do more bad deeds in this time.”
(Ahl-e-Hadith April 26, 1907)Maulvi Sanaullah himself said
“The Holy Prophet (saw) died before Musailma Kazzab despite the fact that he was a true Prophet. And Musailma despite being false died after him”. (Muraqa Qadiani August 1907).So according to his own view Allah gave him a long life. The mission of his life was to oppose Jama’at. He opposed all his life. All these 40 years after the death of Hazrat Mirza Sahib (as), Maulvi Sahib wrote numerous books against Jama’at. But regardless of his efforts Jama’at Ahmadiyya kept on progressing.
At the time of Hazrat Mirza Sahib’s death the annual convention was attended by a few thousand Ahmadis. By the time of Maulvi Sahibs death in 1948 the size of annual convention of Jama’at was bigger than 50,000. Allah frustrated all the efforts of Maulvi Sanaullah Sahib. He died after seeing that his efforts went in vain.
The annual convention of Ghana alone this year was more than hundred thousand. The annual convention of Benin had more than 22,000 participants.
Not only that Maulvi Sahibs efforts were frustrated but his end was extremely pathetic. During partition of subcontinent in 1947 his son was brutally slaughtered in front of his own eyes. His home and his grand library was burnt to dust. The next year he died in Sargodha after seeing mission frustrated and losing whatever he had earned.
His biographer Maulvi Abdul Majeed Sohdarwi writes in his book “Seerat-e-Sinaai”
“Maulvi Sahib was among the rich people of the city. He had articles worth thousands of rupees. Thousands of rupees in cash, jewlery worth thousands of rupees was locked in boxes. The library was worth thousands of rupees. There were enough garments. But Maulana did not care for anything. Neither did he himself take anything nor let anyone else take. He had only fifty rupees and plain clothes. He left the house with his family and stayed at someone else’s house.
As soon as he left the house, looters, who were waiting for the oppurtunity, came in and took everything and burned the house. The looters didn’t stop there, they even burned his most beloved library. There were rare and very expensive books worth thousands of rupees in that he has collected and purchased with great effort. These books were burned to dust. The grief on the loss of his books were no less than the murder of his only son. These books were the wealth of his whole life. Some of these books were so rare that getting them back was very difficult or almost impossible. This grief remained with him till his end. It is a fact that the reason of his untimely death were these two griefs.
Firstly the murder of his son
Secondly burning of his rare and very expensive books.”
(Seerat Sinai 389-390)“In August 1947, Amritsar (Maulvi Sanaullah Sahib’s home town) showed signs of Qiyamat-e-Sughra (small doomsday). Riots spread to his home and engulfed that area. Although he was able to take his family to safety but his only young son was slaughtered in front of his eyes. Seeing this affected him badly. After coming to Pakistan he stayed in Gujranwala, then he moved to Sargodha where he passed away in a few months”
(Al-Etasam June 15, 1962 page 10)Is that how Allah rewarded the one who was one of the greatest champion against a false prophet (Naudhu Billah) according to you.
Wassalamu Ala Man ittaba al-Huda
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Khalid
I dared you translate the advertisement that Mirza gave titled ” Final decision with Molvi Sanaullah”. You did not , either deliberatley ignored that as you know it will expose Ahmadiya jamaat’s false stand that it was a Mubahla or you are too nieve.
You spent your energies on irrelevent issues , for example
You brought in the death of molvi Sanaullah and his other material losses. THAT DOES PROVE ONLY ONE THING, YOU WANT TO AVOID THE REAL ISSUE. You know very well that during the time of partition, hundereds of thousands of people lost their lives, valuables and even many women lost their honour…. I am sure there must be qadiani followers who got affacted in that wave of voilance. Do you think Mirza has given Mubahla challenge to them all? Your khalifa sani and his family had to leave your most revered city, never to go back… never to get burried in that Bahshti grave yard Bahshti maqbara, had he also challenged Mirza? And what about that examplary andmiserable end of your khalifa sani who went mad and became uncontrollable, was stripped off his khilafat…..because he litrally tuned mad..for last 10 years of his life. What about Mirza Nasir who died suddenly before going to honey moon……
Lets not go there and stick to the issue at hand and that is “Mirza gave an advertisement and prayed for the death of the liar in life of truthful…. relaity is, Mirza died in life of Molvi Sanullah proving Mirza was a liar and died of CHOLERA LIKE DISEASE exactly as per mirza’s prayer.
You claim to be follower of Muhammed pbuh and yet you falsely and shamlessly point finger at him (pbuh). When and where our last prophet pbuh presented his or Musailma Kazzab’s death as a sign..have some fear of Allah, try to break the seal, be honest and tell the truth. You have lied enough and not anymore InshAllah.
You have been shown the truth, if you still prefer to stay a blind follower, its upto you, Allah Tala has prepared hell fire for people like you who choose to close their eyes when truth is presented to them……. YOU KNOW THE TRUTH IN YOUR HEART.
AND YOU DID NOT SAY ANYTHING ABOUT MIRZA’S ATTEMPT TO ABROGATE JIHAD, DID YOU SEE THAT MIRZA WAS PRESENTING HIS OPPOSITION TO JIHAS AS A PROOF OF HIS LOYALTY TO ENGLISH SARKAR…… NO OTHER REASONS WHICH AHMADI JAMAAT CULTIVATED THESE DAYS..
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Miss Rufo said
“You claim to be follower of Muhammed pbuh and yet you falsely and shamlessly point finger at him (pbuh). When and where our last prophet pbuh presented his or Musailma Kazzab’s death as a sign..have some fear of Allah, try to break the seal, be honest and tell the truth. You have lied enough and not anymore InshAllah.”Ahmadis Alhamdo Lillah love the Holy Prophet (saw) more than any other Muslim does. We follow his footsteps and sunnah. That is what Hazrat Mirza Sahib (as) has taught us.
In my comment I did not raise any objection on the our dearest Holy Prophet of Islam Muhammad (saw). It is either your imagination or you misunderstood me. I was referring to what your spiritual leader Maulvi Sanaullah Sahib said.
Maulvi Sanaullah Sahib said
“The Holy Prophet (saw) died before Musailma Kazzab despite the fact that he was a true Prophet. And Musailma despite being false died after him”. (Muraqa Qadiani August 1907).Maulvi Sanaullah Sahib did not accept the challenge of Mobahila. His reasoning was obviously flawed. He said that if someone dies in the life of another that is not a proof that he is falsehood. He presented the above as a proof of this.
Please don’t atribute anything that I did not say to me.
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Miss Rufo Basheeruddin says:
Khalid
Ok, I can see that you quoted Molvi Sanuallah, why did you quote him in support of your argument?
And where is complet translation of ” FINAL DECISION WITH MOVI SANAULLAH”
WHY YOU FIND IT SO HARD TO PRODUCE THE TEXT OF THAT ADVERTISEMENT? You know that will expose Jamaa ahmadiya’s falsehood. Let me say it again, Mirza in is advrtisement prayed to Alla tala for a decision, ( not asked Molvi Sanaullah to do a Mubahala) and publicised it through an advertisement.
He gor exactly what he asked for… liar died in the life of truthful with a plague or cholera etc like deadly disease.
My second point was that Mirza abrogated Jihad against Allah’s commands in Quran. Mirza gave his reason for doing that in Kitzab al bariyya which I translated in my above posts.
Mirza told British sarkar that he was so loyal and well wisher to British occupiers that he declared Jihad haram in their suport. he dished out a LIST OF RFERNCES FROM HIS BOOKS WITH PAGE NUMBERS where he wrote against JIHAD as an evidence of his loyalty.
Why are you fooling youselves and trying to throw dust in eeryone’s eyes that Mirza against killings …He aided British army with preaching and mataerial hen they committed worst kind of atrocities in BOAR WAR…. Enlighten us the about role and instructions of Mirza to his followers during boar war…….
Do you have the courage to face the truth???
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Mrs Salim says:
Muslims, who are Muslims? Does Islam allows ANYONE to interfere in others personnel belief? Does Islam allows any so called MUSLIMS to martyred Mosques? Does ever any Ahmadi Muslim created sense of fear in the country? Did they start beating up or even killing people due to their believes? What is happening to the Muslim nation? They are creating hell themselves in this life and the life after death. I only want to request President to make a fair decision and protect his people. As a Muslim or even as a human being, we protect animals so they are not harmed, but YOUR PEOPLE ARE AFRAID OF LIVING IN YOUR COUNTRY, PLEASE GIVE THEM SECURITY!
Miss Rufo Basheeruddin: You have VERY lack to information about Ahmadiyya Muslim Community.
I don’t want to start preaching the details stuff, but to let people understand the morals and ethics of being a human and their rights. Islam doesn’t not allow anyone to deny ones believe. Holy Prophet SAW let people from all cultures to worship in the Holy Kaba’a. That was his level, you, me and nothing in comparison to him. Just remember that! -
Shloka says:
@ Mrs Saleem,
The Holy Prophet did smash 360 idols in Mecca, when he attacked Mecca with his troop of followers from Medina so he denied the polytheists and idolaters their belief. And even today in the Prophet’s land, Saudi Arabia there are no churches\temples, though there are a significant number of Christian and Hindu guest workers. And in Saudi and Yemen, Arab lands who are able to read the Koran in their mother tongue unlike Indonesians, leaving Islam for another faith is punishable with death. -
Mrs. Saleem
Muslims, who are Muslims? Does Islam allows ANYONE to interfere in others personnel belief?
You are taking yur official line, i.e anyone who does not believe Mirza qadiani and has not taken his oath of allegiance ( bais) is KAFIR and outside islam. Before you raise finger at MUSLIMS, please READ your own books. Its mentioned on your official website too. Mirza ghulam and his son your Musleh Moud Mirza Basheerudin Mahmood DECLARED EVERYONE KAFIR even those who have not heard name of Mirza qadiani. ( Read http://www.alislam.org and then read books by Mirza Basheruddin and read about SPLIT). Your false prophet interfered with everyone’s faith 100 years ago….:):)
Does Islam allows any so called MUSLIMS to martyred Mosques? Does ever any Ahmadi Muslim created sense of fear in the country?You have actually talking of two things and candidly attacking Islamor Muslims. Let us be clear, ISLAM DOES NOT TEACH US VOILANCE AND DESTRUCTION. Your false nabi declared Jihad haram in support of English Sarkar. I have given refrences on page 5.
What you Qadianis do, is that you confuse voilance with JIHAD and align yourselves with enmies of Islam who do exactly the same.Your second comment is about DOES any ahmedi create sense of fear…. You have no knowledge of your jmaat’s history and present. In time of your Khalifa 2, his very close sahabi ” Fakhruddin Multni was killed… go figure why was that…. AbdulKarim Munbahla walay….what happened to them…. and in general, any qadiani who lived in RABWA and who are living in Rabwa LIVE UNDER CONSTANT FEAR and threats of social boycotts. You have a very limited power in Rabwa but the atrocities comitted by your jamaat is unbelievanble, learn more about jamaat before passing comments.
I don’t want to start preaching the details stuff, but to let people understand the morals and ethics of being a human and their rights. Islam doesn’t not allow anyone to deny ones believe
You make me laugh. The worst kind of operssion is committed by Ahmadi khalifa on its members. Do you not know that IF ANYONE LEAVES YOUR JAMAAT, HE / SHE WILL BE COMPLETELY BOYCOTTED. IF SHE IS MARRAYING ANYONE OUTSIDE AHMADIYA, HER FAMILY WILL BE FORCED TO DISOWN HER, IF THE FAMILY DOES NOT DO THAT, THE FAMILY WILL BE BANNED AND FROM JAMAAT AND BOYCOTTED.
IF ALREADY MARRIED HE / SHE WILL BE SEPARATED FROM THE SPOUSE AT THE OFFICIAL INSTRUCTIONS.
Be honest, I don’t know where you live but i am sure you will be aware of such forced separations, bans and boycotts…. aren’t you???
READ MIRZA’S BOOKS TO KNOW HIM. SEE HIS TRUE FACE, READ HIS BOOKS.
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@ Miss Rufo Basheeruddin,
While I don’t know whether the Ahmadiyya deserve to be called Muslims or not, but they certainly don’t deserve to be banned. However many of the allegations you put against Ahmadiyya can just as easily be put against Muslims. Please will you read your own Koran too? Just like Prophet Mohammed(PBUH) declared everyone Kaffir who does not follow Islam, Mirza Ghulam did the same. While grudging tolerance was shown to Jews and Christians, no such tolerance to idolaters. The Muslims took their word for idols from Buddha “But” and idolaters were called ” but parast” and idol breakers ” but shian.Just like non Ahmadiyya’s call Mirza a fake Prophet, non Muslims at four fifths of the world’s population call Mohammed a fake Prophet. Mohammed interfered with everyone’s faith in Mecca too, but 1400 years ago instead of 100 years ago. While those who embraced Islam were spared, the ones who wanted to stick to idolatry were killed and their idols smashed. Similar to Indonesia today, where Ahmadiyya’s willing to renounce Mirza Ghulam as Prophet are spared, those who still claim he’s a Prophet will be arrested.
Atrocities committed by Ahmadiyyas are “unbelievable” those committed by Muslims are worse. Two terrorist attacks on Bali, forced conversions of Christians etc.Islam does teach violence and destruction. Mohammed destroyed Mecca’s idols. Muslim terrorists like Al Queda, Lashkar-e-Toeba, Jameeh Islamiah etc all believe Jihad means violence, and they carry out violence on a global scale- U.S., Britain, France, Spain, India, Thailand- far more in terms of geographical area than Ahmadiyyas.
As for Ahmadiyyas marrying non Ahmadis being boycotted, thats’ true for Muslims too. A Muslim man may marry a Christian or Jewish woman, a Muslim woman can only marry a Muslim man. Obviously, the man’s religion is generally inherited by his children, so a Muslim woman marrying a non Muslim will be disowned too. That’s what the Koran says. Did you know that in Arab Muslim nations(wo can read the Koran in their mother tongue, unlike Indos) like Jordan and Syria, a woman can be legally killed in a honor killing for shaming her family, improper sexual conduct or marrying a non Muslim
As for Islam not teaching violence and destruction, the following verses clearly show otherwise. Muslim scholars have developed a practice of abrogation, where peaceful verses are cancelled out by belligerent ones.Muslims should muster all their power and might, including steeds of war (tanks, planes, missiles…) to strike terror in the hearts of the unbelievers (by killing them—ibn Abbas).
47:4 When the believers meet the unbelievers they should smite at unbelievers’ necks (when you fight against them, cut them down totally with your swords—ibn Kathir).
8:39 Fight until there are no more unbelievers (non-Muslims) and tumult (this verse overrides all other verses on fighting the infidels, including the Jews and the Christians); if they accept Islam then leave them alone.
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shloka
This thread is about ahmadiya and their beliefs. You sound like a qadiani or ex qadiani with a very twisted mind and NO PEACE…;);) You seem to have found true face of Mirza Ghulam and have disowned him, and now you don’t know what you believe in… or do you? tell us what you believe in ?
I will not engage in any debate on Islam, as its not my objective nor this thread is about Islam. You can spread lies and hate at your own will. I thought I ignore you completely because you are just another FOUL mouth bad mouthing Islam…..( what else a liar can do??;);)
But, for the benefit of readers, I will only add Quranic verses IN FULL which you quoted here out of context, which shows your develish charector;);) nevermind, here is the Quarnic translations:
47:1 Those who reject Allah and hinder (men) from the Path of Allah,- their deeds will Allah render astray
47:2 But those who believe and work deeds of righteousness, and believe in the (Revelation) sent down to Muhammad – for it is the Truth from their Lord,- He will remove from them their ills and improve their condition.
47:3 This because those who reject Allah follow vanities, while those who believe follow the Truth from their Lord: Thus does Allah set forth for men their lessons by similitudes.
47:4 Therefore, when ye meet the Unbelievers (in fight), smite at their necks; At length, when ye have thoroughly subdued them, bind a bond firmly (on them): thereafter (is the time for) either generosity or ransom: Until the war lays down its burdens. Thus (are ye commanded): but if it had been Allah’s Will, He could certainly have exacted retribution from them (Himself); but (He lets you fight) in order to test you, some with others. But those who are slain in the Way of Allah,- He will never let their deeds be lost
47:5 Soon will He guide them and improve their condition,8:36 The Unbelievers spend their wealth to hinder (man) from the path of Allah, and so will they continue to spend; but in the end they will have (only) regrets and sighs; at length they will be overcome: and the Unbelievers will be gathered together to Hell;-
8:37 In order that Allah may separate the impure from the pure, put the impure, one on another, heap them together, and cast them into Hell. They will be the ones to have lost.
8:38 Say to the Unbelievers, if (now) they desist (from Unbelief), their past would be forgiven them; but if they persist, the punishment of those before them is already (a matter of warning for them).
8:39 And fight them on until there is no more tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in Allah altogether and everywhere; but if they cease, verily Allah doth see all that they do. -
The Holy Prophet did smash 360 idols in Mecca, when he attacked Mecca with his troop of followers from Medina so he denied the polytheists and idolaters their belief. And even today in the Prophet’s land, Saudi Arabia there are no churches\temples, though there are a significant number of Christian and Hindu guest workers. And in Saudi and Yemen, Arab lands who are able to read the Koran in their mother tongue unlike Indonesians, leaving Islam for another faith is punishable with death.
Idols were smashed, not people. No Idol was allowd inside Kaba’a, never stopped people from comming in. Which Islam is this to kill people if they dont follow your relegion? Here you are talking what has been said by non Muslims to attack on Islam. In the days of Holy Prophet SAW, slaves were protected, regardless of colour and relegion. This Islam is made by people who allows other to attack on Islam.
Mecca and Medina was always open for everyone during Holy Prophet SAW’s days. I dont know what world we are living in now.
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Murabit Bhai,
Where did u get this FATWA. This is not Holy Prophet’s (SAL) teaching. Pls read the true teachings of Hazrat Holy Prophet (SAL). Nowhere he had permitted us to take the blood or property of anyone. So be a true Muslim. Islam means Peace. Qadiyanis are saying the same Kalima like you and other Muslims. Practice what he has told and dont do it against his teachings. So don’t implement what the opponents (Quraish) of our Holy Prophet (SAL) did. Don’t follow it. It was hated by our beloved Hazrat Prophet (SAL).