Indonesian Women
Oct 3rd, 2007, in News, by PatungLaws that discriminate against women.
The recent 39th meeting of the Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination Against Women (CEDAW) in New York recommended Indonesia revoke all laws that are viewed as biased against women, said the Minister for Women’s Empowerment, Meutia Hatta, on 26th September.
Although Indonesia ratified the Convention 23 years ago Meutia says:
There are currently 29 laws which are gender-biased and we have suggested the relevant ministries amend them. I have heard that they are still evaluating them.
She cited the 1974 marriage law, which contains articles that permit men to commit polygamy, but not women, in the case of a wife’s infertility or inability to perform her “wifely duties”, and which also allows girls of 16 and 17 to marry, even though in other statutes such girls are considered still to be children.
Meutia said the Women’s Empowerment ministry had asked the Religious Affairs ministry to review any discriminative laws within its authority but had not yet received a response.
Meutia Farida Hatta.
She went on to say that at the meeting in New York concerns were also raised about the effect of the regional autonomy policy which had created discriminative regulations against women, such as the 2005 by-law in Tangerang, Banten, which stipulates that any woman seen alone in public after 19.00 could be considered a prostitute and arrested, as well as the various regional laws, such as this one in Malang, requiring women to obtain permission from their husbands to work at night.
Meuthia said the meeting also criticized the Indonesian government for its failure to fully integrate CEDAW convention compliance into Indonesian laws. The minister said this was because the details of the CEDAW convention were not yet known by government bodies.
CEDAW also asked the government to issue a firm policy against female circumcision.
Indonesia had not received an all negative report card however:
They noted some improvements like the issuance of the 1999 Law on Human Rights, the amendment to the 1945 Constitution, the 2004 Law on the Elimination of Domestic Violence, the 2006 Law on Witness’s and Victim’s Protection and the 2007 Law on Human Trafficking.
176 Comments on “Indonesian Women”
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Janma says:
Actually in many countries it is illegal, like in America and Europe and they are judged by the law, so they would have to stay in the countries where they are allowed to do that, mostly third world backward countries.
Janma
*who couldn’t help herself* -
Cukurungan says:
Janma said:
Actually in many countries it is illegal, like in America and Europe and they are judged by the law, so they would have to stay in the countries where they are allowed to do that, mostly third world backward countries.
Cukurungan :
What is your points … you might want to say that “rapes and adultary” is a better than the polygami …if not … please show us prove that quality of the families live in those advanced countries better than in the Islamic majority countries …show us what the statistics told about rapes rates , divorce rates, teenage pregnancy and teenage vagina illegal penetration and abortion rate in those modern countries ….
FYI, We never care and raising question why the most of your vagina are penetrated illegally even before your seventeen and we don’t care how many the bottom hole of Japanese and Australian Grandmother have been sucked by the Balinese Cowboys.
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dewaratugedeanom says:
re
…teenage vagina illegal penetration…
Oh no, such a despicable act is not allowed for pious muslims. Astaghfirullah! Better perform mufkhaza (thighing) with little children, a practice done by Muhammad with Ayesha before she was nine and still popular in Arab countries, Iran, Pakistan and Afghanistan and approved by Ayatollah Khomeini in his Little Green Book. At least this way the girls stay virgin and get a better price on the meat market.
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Plenty of rape in islamic majority countries sir. Statistics wont’ help cause most rape and abuse in islamic countries are not reported, and please keep your tone a little more civilized!!!!
You have no idea what you are talking about and how dare you be so rude! Just goes to prove what we all know, you can’t behave as gentlemen!
You nothing of my family and I take great offence at what you have said when I did nothing to provoke or insult you personally!
A man looking for a second wife almost always is having an affair with the prospective second wife before he marries her so your argument means nothing. And you say you never care or question? You do care and question all the time and you get emotional and insult people because of it. Divorce is also allowed in islam, nothing to say that divorce is prevented by polygamy.
You are just threatened by women who feel confident and comfortable with their sexuality, it’s quite obvious by your post. -
Ihaknt says:
Cuk only cares about statistic Janma. But he doesnt want to be open minded. He is blinded by these invisible things – apparently justified by the religion – just like many other men from his religion, only see what he wants to see without looking at the situation deeper. Stupid is stupid does, dont worry about him, he is rude cos he was brought up that way by a stupid father, and probably by a mother who was never respected by her family just because of the mere fact she is a woman.
As for us Janma, we know we can do things if we set our minds on whatever we want to do. Right, girlfriend? -
bla….bla…bla…bla…bla…bla….. the rule in the court room is very simple …
Case for the allowed polygamy countries ….evidence ..rape cases is low and divorce rates is low therefore case is closed…those countries have relatively better family life.
Case for the non-allowed polygamy countries ..evidence …90% most vagina penetrated illegally even before their seventeen , rapes case staggering, abortion is normal practice, Drug abuse is anytime, divorce case is very high, teenage pregnancy is common and adultary is a goods deeds ..so what else you want to prove it to us that non-polygamy countries is better than the countries where the polygami is allowed….
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As for us Janma, we know we can do things if we set our minds on whatever we want to do. Right, girlfriend?
Thanks for that support girl….
and cuk, nothing on this subject is simple and your statistics are not reliable in these cases for reasons mentioned above. you want to spout standard of living? how can you say that the standard of living is higher in those countries?
case is not closed except maybe in your mind….
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Ade Wanto says:
Janma Says:
Billy Connelly said: If you want to judge a person, walk a mile in their shoes, that way when you criticise them you’ll be a mile away and wearing their shoes!
Luke 6:37 Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned.
And, why can’t christians take NO for an answer? (my American’s friend answer this:)
Because they are brainwashashed repressed suckers who think that just because they are gullible enought to think that cos there lives are sh*t then all of a sudden they have a “family” its their right to try and get other like minded gullible fools to join and on their bullsh*t because you are trash until you admit that you are weak and a dirty sinner and join the cult of christianity where you will give a 10% tithe to belong and you will become weak and a sheep (which are possibly the most retarded and stupid animals with free thought).
I am usually a patient person, but I am trying really hard to understand the apparent COMPULSION of some Christians to attempt to “save” me and others. I have explained that I have my own faith (MUSLIM) and that I have NO INTEREST WHATSOEVER in being “saved”, yet they will not stop. Is this a part of their religion or what??? Are there any “magic phrases” I could use to convince them to just SHUT UP about “saving” me????
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dewaratugedeanom Says:
If under these circumstances each man is entitled to 4 wives and all of them want to make use of their Koranic rights, what about the 75% of men who are left without female partners?
Have you ever go to BPS? Maybe your answer will be change:
If a man can only have 4 wives, where the other 3 woman get a man for themselves.
And, what’s wrong to have many women? It’s legal and no sin.___________
Janma Says:
So, if you want to follow Muhammad, find a filthy rich smart 40 years old as a wife, not a naive helpless kampung woman (lucky enough if you are not considered as a toy boy these days).
Only problem is, any filthy rich smart 40 year old woman isn’t going to want to touch muslim polygamists with a 10ft pole!
Janma, if you 40 age now, it will be better if you listen to this (as my American’s buddy sent it to me:) And, please bring Janma to MRI first then check her nose out.
Smells like….
A woman goes to the doctor.
When the doctor asks her what the problem is she tells him she is worried because her pussy doesn’t seem to smell anymore. The doctor has her get undressed and on the table for an exam. He checks her out and says he thinks he knows what the problem is, and it looks like she will need an operation.“An operation?” she exclaims, “On my pussy?”
“No” says the doctor, “On your nose”.A lady goes to heaven
A lady dies and goes to heaven and is chatting with St Peter at the Pearly Gates when all of a sudden she hears the most awful blood-curdling screams.
“Don’t worry about that,” says St Peter, “it’s only someone having the holes bored on their shoulder blades for the wings.”
The lady looks a little uncomfortable but carries on with the conversation. Ten minutes later, there are more blood-curdling screams.
“Oh my God,” says the lady, “now what is happening?”
“Not to worry,” says St Peter, “they are just having their head drilled to fit the halo.”
“I can’t do this,” says the lady, “I’m off down to hell.”
“You can’t go there,” says St Peter, You’ll be raped and sodomized.”
“Yes, but I’ve already got the holes for that,” says the lady.And I ask again, “Are you anti-Christians?” Shit, what is it with Christians? They gotta hate everyone, even themselves.
It’s not bad enough you’re the most intolerant religion on earth. You gotta discriminate against the Jews, wage war against Muslims then paint THEM as the war-mongerers (even though we’ve overrun their countries), and even hate atheists. And then, when you finally run out of people to hate, you turn on yourselves. Catholics hate Baptists, Baptists hate Protestants, and everyone hates Mormons. All this – even though you all believe in the same God. A God that doesn’t even f*cking make sense AND a God that tries to teach you love and tolerance.
Christians are the most hypocritical species on the planet earth. You twist your own lines so that you can wage war, reward your own greed, and try to repress others. The most selfish people I’ve ever met in my life were all Christians.What is your REAL GOD?
The Three Muskeeters? The Three Tenors? Or, the Three Stooges? Is it Moe or what?
Hey, we have totally different GOD. We have totally different WAY OF LIFE. Why do you always keep HATE in your heart and mind. And, you really need to ILL, HUMILIATE, and DISGRACE other?My Buddy comment on this: Luckily as a non christian I have free thoughts and deeds. Oh yes there are guidelines with Muslim’s way …do unto others as you would want them to do to you… we had it ages before the christians did … but we wont complain about them stealing it because we love em and hope they will grow up.
What is your REAL GOD?
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Janma,
The intellectual tools is data analysis , statistics and evidence while tools for the insane girl can only said…bla..bla..stupid ..blinded…and even she was curse her own father and mother.
What is the good thing of having the higher standard of living …those high standard of living in the western countries have been sustained with the miserable life of billion people in thirds world’s ….remember Australia will be never like today without “ABORIGINAL SLAVE LABOR “, US sunshine at cost of hundred million red indian and negro slave…and now at cost or IRAQI DEATH ….you can check where the dangerous waste of those advanced countries have been dumped …again this is also at cost of the health million poor india and africa …..in term of humanity and family life you and non-muslim have no moral ground to teach us……Is that clear mom…
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The intellectual tools is data analysis , statistics and evidence while tools for the insane girl can only said”¦bla..bla..stupid ..blinded”¦and even she was curse her own father and mother.
what have I ever said about my mother and father to you?!
Plus, intellectuals who manage data analysis have this to say about rape statistics…
I quote Sam Waterhouse who is the advocacy manager at the non-governmental organisation Resources Aimed at Prevention of Child Abuse and Neglect (Rapcan).;“Rape is notoriously under-reported, and so when reports of rape increase, this indicates more confidence in the police, not more crimes taking place. The last thing we should celebrate is a lowering of the reporting rate. I can’t for the life of me see why police are aiming at reducing reported rapes and indecent assaults. In fact when the police figures were climbing, this indicated they were doing something right,” Waterhouse noted.
Unquote.
also from a UN report….
“Punitive rape is sometimes practiced in countries where men resent women taking initiative or assuming positions of authority or power. In Latin America, feminists contend that women are raped as a way to force them back into the traditional sphere of home and children. In India, a leader of the Women’s Development Program, an organization that helps women start businesses, was gangraped in front of her husband by men who disapproved of her campaign against child marriages.Rape is also practiced as a weapon of war or as a right of victorious forces”””spoils of war,” as noted by Nancy Farwell in her “War Rape: New Conceptualizations and Responses” (Affilia, vol. 19, Winter 2004). Combatants and their sympathizers have raped women in wartime with near complete impunity. In 1993, for the first time, the UN passed a resolution identifying rape as a war crime. Documented cases of wartime rape have occurred in Sierra Leone, Kosovo, the Democratic Republic of the Congo, Afghanistan, Liberia, Rwanda, El Salvador, Guatemala, Kuwait, Bangladesh, the former Yugoslavia, and by U.S. troops in the Vietnam War. In Darfur, Sudan, rape has been used as a weapon of war by governmentsponsored militia known as Janjawid since 2003 (“Darfur: Rape as a Weapon of War: Sexual Violence and Its Consequences,” Amnesty International, July 19, 2004, http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGAFR540762004?open&of=ENG-373, accessed November 22, 2004).
There is little accurate information on rates of rape and sexual assault, especially in developing countries. The challenge of defining rape across cultures makes data collection difficult, and underreporting raises suspicion about the actual number of incidents. For example, a 1999 UN Children’s Fund study found that from 1989 to 1997 reported rapes declined in all but three of the twelve countries for which data were available. This decline seems unlikely since during the same years there were sharp increases in all other crime statistics.”
shall I go on Mr Intellect?????!!!!!!!
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or try this on for size, in a UN report they have stated….
“Pakistan has perhaps the harshest attitudes toward rape in the world. The country’s Hudood Ordinances, passed in 1979 as part of an Islamic overhaul of the country’s law to deal with a range of sins, effectively equate rape with adultery. Any sex outside of marriage, known as zina, is against the law. This view often results in the arrest of raped women rather than their rapists. In a Karachi court, about 15% of the rape trials result in women facing charges and imprisonment. In one case, a patient and his two friends raped a staff nurse in a Karachi prison. Although she did not go to police, the men reported her for engaging in sex outside marriage. The judge found that if she were a “decent” woman she would not work at night and sentenced her to five years in prison, five lashes, and a fine equivalent to a year’s salary.”
so no wonder rape is not reported there cuk…. do you still wonder why???Janma.
*really really mad, but still coherent, unlike some others”__________
Cuk, take a read, you might learn something:
http://books.google.com/books?id…..
I bet you’ve never even looked at statistics, you just took an uneducated, subjective, bigoted and stupid guess.There is also an article or two or three about rape increases in sweden where there was an increase of muslim immigrants (amongst other crime”¦) here’s the link,
http://fjordman.blogspot.com/2005/02/muslim-rape-epidemic-in-sweden-and.html or would you rather I be less intellectual and more emotional like you? -
Janma Cuk is sok tau orangnya…dont waste your energy, he doesnt want to see the facts. I wonder if he even cares if his mother or sister dies.
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Janma said :
what have I ever said about my mother and father to you?!
Cukurungan :
Come on…not for you mom…but your girls friend.. (ihaknt)…a girls who never enjoy total orgasm…coz….she only have a bottle beer for thighing
Don’t be mad…we still have plenty of times to enjoy our cultural discussion
FYI…you’re in big mistake if you thing I couldn’t control my anger or emotion …in fact in the real life…. hi hi hi..I am a very polite person
Janma said:
I bet you’ve never even looked at statistics, you just took an uneducated, subjective, bigoted and stupid guess.
…
Cukurungan :Check by yourself mom in http://www.nationmaster.com….
everything is there..Crime Statistics > Statistics > Rapes (per capita) (Latest available) by country
Rank Countries Amount (top to bottom)
#1 South Africa: 1.19538 per 1,000 people
#2 Seychelles: 0.788294 per 1,000 people
#3 Australia: 0.777999 per 1,000 people
#4 Montserrat: 0.749384 per 1,000 people
#5 Canada: 0.733089 per 1,000 people
#6 Jamaica: 0.476608 per 1,000 people
#7 Zimbabwe: 0.457775 per 1,000 people
#8 Dominica: 0.34768 per 1,000 people
#9 United States: 0.301318 per 1,000 people
Pakistan rapes get highlight ..because …everybody is excited to shoot on the partly sharia law application there….check by yourself horrible crime of canibals rapes and genital in congo, rwanda and south africa where muslim is only minorityThe bottom line is you have no evidence or whatever to prove that the countries who don’t allow polygamy marriage have a better quality family life than otherwise ….don’t give-up …you still have plenty of times to prove it.
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Hahhaha…is that the best you can do now you attacked my sex life? You dont know about orgasm cos you DONT give anyone it, unable to. It’s very funny, cos I am the exact opposite. You’re a very pathetic being, I am not surprised coming from stupid father and mother who never receive any respect from her family…Now tell me, will you be sad if your mother or sister died?
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cuk, you already heard what I quoted from the un and the statistics why those statistics are not indicative… so think again. the incidence of rape in sweden rose according to how many muslims were immigrating there. what about the gang rapers in sydney…. sitting in jail now hey….? it’s not limited to any demographic sir!
and I know you feel threatened by women, but truly neither ikahnt or I will hurt you! 😉 so put down your penis and pick up your brain! -
plus, your link doesn’t work???
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Some have this to say about Nationmaster ….
NationMaster uses the content from Wikipedia along with commercial advertisements. For example see [1] and [2]. The site appears to specify more restrictive terms than (and thus be incompatible with) the GNU Free Document License (GFDL) of the original Wikipedia content. For example, see [3].
It briefly had a category on sex, which compared sexual behaviors by country, based on poll responses, but this was quickly removed.
The correlation graphs have sparked some debate because correlations can be made that could point to socially sensitive possibilities. For example a high gender empowerment rank on UNDP correlates to a high divorce rate. Such correlations without a sound understanding of statistical principles may cause such data to be misinterpreted or abused by the ignorant.
As a secondary source that seeks to republish a large number of primary sources, inconsistencies between variables on the site can arise. In one case the site essentially indicates that some nations have a murder rate by firearms higher than the murder rate was by all causes combined. South Africa 0.71 firearms murders per 1000 people compared to their listing of South Africa’s total murder rate listed as 0.49 per 1000. Both these tables claim the Seventh United Nations Survey of Crime Trends and Operations of Criminal Justice Systems, covering the period 1998 – 2000 (United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime, Centre for International Crime Prevention) as their source. Reviewing the data sets provided by the United Nations, however, proves that NationMaster cited their source correctly. In this study, the Seventh United Nations Survey numbers the total recorded intentional homicides at 21,995 for South Africa in the year 2000. South Africa’s totals for recorded intentional homicides committed with a firearm in the same year is 31,918. In other words, the UN reports that there were roughly 10,000 more murders with firearms than all murders combined in South Africa for the year 2000.
Other issues relate to shortcomings in the process of statistical collection. For example, their crime stats contain a disclaimer that “Crime statistics are often better indicators of prevalence of law enforcement and willingness to report crime, than actual prevalence.”
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Janma,
Please tell to your girl friend that we already understood if her parents is stupid and she don’t need to repeat and repeat again saying so…tell her to respect her parents even they are stupid.
to connect the link you should completely type:
hhtp://www.nationmaster.comFor me the bottom line is a cristal clear…. polygamy or non-polygami is the same like marriage and non-marriage , it is depending our own decision ….and don’t worry I won’t pick you and your girls friend for my next wife’s because I have much better ..better choice than you
FYI, I never threatened by any women but honestly I only feel convenient with a beautiful women because only with the beautiful women my penis can stand-up peacefully …..
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Since you don’t know what we look like cuk beauty cannot be the problem, I know how a woman would please you, by giving up most of her power, that’s how to get you to stand up!
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Ade Wanto said
If a man can only have 4 wives, where the other 3 woman get a man for themselves.
Please enlighten me. If the man is only able to satisfy 1 wife, are the 3 others allowed to commit zina? Will they still go to Paradise?
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Tuan says:
Please enlighten me. If the man is only able to satisfy 1 wife, are the 3 others allowed to commit zina? Will they still go to Paradise?
Well I do know that a Muslim woman has the right to divorce her husband if he can not satisfy her.
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Abu Sulaiman says:
Pena Budaya said
… It’s not about women’s freedom to choose who they marry or how many spouses they have: it’s about women being owned by men.
Men owning women
One of the reasons so many women assume that the institution of marriage equates women being owned by men is because they have adopted the Western European example of marriage as being the standard. The western European model is derived from the Greco Roman society. When a Roman man married a women she was considered his property. Like the man’s cattle she also adopted his surname and dropped that of her family. The man was allowed an unlimited amount of mistresses from the slave population but only one wife, this is the Western style polygyny. Often times Roman men satisfied their sexual pleasures with other men or boys. In this society women were viewed only as child rearers. The United States has adopted this western practice into its modern practices. In the US it adultery is not punishable by imprisonment but taking on another wife is punishable up to six years in prison.
A man is not legally responsible for the women he sleeps with whether she be a prostitute or his girlfriend. He is not responsible for her maintenance, shelter, education, or the rearing of her children. However he does carry the above mentioned responsibilities for his wife or wives. Laws that prohibit polygyny do not prohibit adultery / fornication nor were they designed to do so. They were designed to excuse men of any legal, social or financial responsibility from his sex partners out side of marriage.Reality of the status of Women in the west.
How can the misogynistic lawmakers of the Christian world have the nerve to boast that they are the champion of women’s rights when more women are abused in the U.S. than any other nation in the world. According to the National Organization for Women statistics, more women in American have died from domestic abuse than we had casualities in the Vietnam war.
Furthermore several studies have been made on the psychological damages that girls as young as six suffer from as a result of the bombardment of unrealistic images of dangerously thin and scantily clad women on television and commercials. Women are duped into removing more and more of their clothing and exposing their bodies as a marketing tool to sell everything, from alcohol, to homes.
Misguided women western democracies are also are tricked into surrendering their virginity to strange men who do not have any intention on providing the care and responsibility that only can be legally enforced by the state through the institution of marriage.
Even though women are the largest beneficiaries to the institution of marriage the men and lawmakers of western democracy have corrupted their thinking so thourougly that now women are the opponents of such institutions. Through the promotion of shallow and meaningless institutions and relationships such as Multiple sex partners, boyfriends, lovers, and acquaintances, men now have full access to the chastity of these misguided women who actual believe that through avoiding marriage they have somehow become more free. The reality of the matter is that they have not become free but in fact they have been cheated.Cheating
The United States has outlawed polygamy in marriage but permits polygyny in sex partners. Although many aspects of western democracies are misguided when it comes to morality at least the common person is sensible enough to refer to this type of polygamy as “cheating”. The reason it is called cheating is simple. Spouses make sacrifices for each other. When a women marries, she often leaves the home of her family and dedicates her life to caring for her husband who in turn protects and maintains her. The wife also sacrifices her physical body in the most intimate of all human relationships, a relationship that cannot be shared with even her closest male relatives including her father or brother. She will often times go through 9 months of physical changes in order to perform the task of bearing children, and she will continue to sacrifice her time to care for these children. Likewise, the man also dedicates his life to providing for his family, personal goals are also put aside as he works toward this end. He will often work long hours in order to ensure her comfort and will go to the utmost levels in order to protect her honor and dignity. The relationship can endure many circumstances and last for years. If a man who has sacrificed for his wife and his wife has sacrificed him for several years offers these intimate sexual pleasure to another woman who he just happened to meet at work one week ago, this is naturally classified as cheating. The word cheating is used because all the other woman had to do was flirt with and offer herself to the man in a simple one night stand and then she can unjustly steal what only his wife should have rights to.
As a sex partner the other woman did not sacrifice for him, she did not promise to care for him for better or for worse until death do them part. She did not rear children for him she id not even take any vows to him, therefore she has no right to such a level of intimacy from him. The same goes for the man, he has cheated himself and his wife by dishonoring his vows, delegitimizing his children should he beget any, and failed in his promise to uphold the dignity and self respect of his wife by soiling his marriage by means of an illegitimate relationship. To put it simply Marriage is a fulltime with fulltime benefits. You don’t risk a full time job with benefits for a temporary part time job with no benefits.
It doesn’t stop there. It was not only the man that cheated or just the wife who was cheated the sex partner was cheated as well. The man enjoys the pleasures he receives from the intimacy of her body that she sacrifices to him, yet the man later goes home to care for his legitimate wife and their children and leaves the women to fend for herself like a whore. He does not have to maintain the sex partner. He does not have to sacrifice for her, if she becomes ill he doesn’t have to nurse her, if she losses her job he doesn’t have to provide for her, if she is thrown out of her home he doesn’t have to shelter her and if she becomes pregnant he doesn’t have to assist in the rearing of their children, what is worst of all is that he doesn’t even have to acknowledge their relationship.
This is why this relationship is aptly called cheating because everyone was cheated.
Why women put up with cheating?
Many single women who pursue married men understand that this is the reality of the relationship that they will enter et they enter it regardless. Even if they did not pursue the relation but were pursued they usually don’t choose to end the relationship even though they are capable of doing so. Often times their intent is not to destroy the man’s previous relationship, but only to enjoy a secret and less serious relationship with the man as well.
My wife has some non Muslim female friends that have boyfriends. I know some of the couples quite well. One couple who is not married has been intimately involved and living together for over five years. Interestingly enough the man (who I will call Mike) actually provides for his girlfriend in the way a husband would provide for his wife. He pays for her college courses, she lives in his home, and he even recently brought her a car, overall he provides for her. She in turn shows loyalty to him, she brings home groceries, prepares meals and looks after his home when she is not studying. When I brought up the idea of the two of them marrying each other, Mike shouted (Whooaa) and looked at me as If I were crazy. The girl (who I will call Jane) has expressed to my wife that she desires marriage. Mike has expressed to me “I’m not ready yet.” This is guy talk for, “I’ve got a lot more fooling around to do.” If he as a car a good paying job and a home that means that he is materially ready for marriage. If he has reached sexual maturity then he is physically ready for marriage. What is lacking is his emotional commitment to his girlfriend. Whether she realizes it or not she is being cheated. If you work for an employer and you are not under contract with them then this means you can be fired at any time. The fact that you may have worked for them for five years, or they have offered you a good salary or benefits does not prove that they are committed to you. The fact of the matter is that they may have only one opening and if they have not given it to you then they are using you temporarily until they find a more preferred candidate.
If you go through a job interview and the interviewer says that we have to interview more candidates then more than likely you did not get that job. Especially if they have told you to your face that they want to interview other candidates.Boyfriend and girlfriend = meaningless relationships
Many men and women live this illusion of boyfriends and girlfriends. It is like a prepubescent relationship game that has extended into adulthood for the benefit of the man. The women hopes that by sacrificing her intimacy and showing loyalty that she will be rewarded in the end with a marriage commitment. The on the other hand the man, who is very logical, reasons “why should a purchase the car, if I get to drive it for free?”
A man knows that if he commits to a partner in marriage then he has to remain with her in good times and in bad times, in sickness and health, in youth and in old age, till death do them part.What a girl wants
When polled what most single women say when asked what do they want most from their (boyfriends, lovers sex-partners ect.) the most common word is commitment. The highest form of commitment between man and woman is marriage. If a man refuses to commit then understand that he wants to be free to hop around from partner to partner for the rest of his life. This type of lifestyle is promoted in western society as being macho or manly when in fact there is nothing manly about it. It is a very cowardly lifestyle since the man has not taken a commitment of responsibility to any one of these women. A coward can only continue this lifestyle as long as there are women, and men , that allow him to do so.
This cowardly lifestyle is mistakenly describes as freedom I many societies. If this is the case then a lifetime of freedom for men will equal a lifetime of whoredom for women.American Polygyny.
When it comes to the issue of polygyny we must ask ourselves the basic questions? Where men created as monogamous creatures? The United States, self proclaimed champions of women’s rights, produces a magazine called Playboy magazine. This magazine is the standard for all publications of the exploitation of women. It is also so widely read and subscribed to by the men of this nation that many writers and columnist strive to publish articles within it.This article and many other studies have indicated that while polgyous marriages are outlawed in the US sexual polygyny is not only permitted but it is widely practiced.
In a recent article that was republished in Playboy magazine a poll indicated that
-75% of men and 65% of women admit to having sex with people they work with.Cheating spouse statistics confirm that 50 and 70 percent of married men (between 38 and 53 million men) have cheated or will cheat on their wives.
Outlawing polygyny in marriage does nothing to address the fact that men will continue to practice polygyny in sex partners. Many women who participate in this polygynous sex are fully aware of the fact that their male partner is married yet they continue the relationship. So in America alone at least 38 million men and women by their actions have proven themselves to be deeply involved in the practice sexual polygyny. However not all women are complacent with the fact that their man will not or cannot commit to them in a similar the same way he has committed to his wife.
Sexual polygyny is here to stay and our society has done nothing to stop it. do anything toSexual polygyny is unhealthy since the women, both wife and sex partner, are victimized in this form of relationship. The sex partner will never achieve any higher status than that of a sex partner, and the wife will always be in an unfair competition with an unknown woman who the man has no commitment to and has nothing to offer the man other than sex.
Islamic Polygyny
Islam does not outlaw sex but it outlaws sex outside of marriage. Similarly Islam does not outlaw polygyny but it outlaws polygyny outside of marriage as well. If Islam were the law of the land in America then those 38 million sexually polygynous men would be faced with serious decision. These 38 million sexually polygynous men would be given two options. Either they honor the relationship with their wife and cut off all sexual relationships with their sexual partners. Or they make a marriage commitment to their other partner legitimatzing the relationship and making them legally responsible for providing them with the exact same benefits that they have provided to their other wife.
Not everyone is responsible enough to take this challenge, so it is my opinion that only a small percentage of men would actually step up to the challenge. Regardless the cowardly men who benefit from girlfriends, sex partners or other meaningless relationships would be weeded out from the men.
Tradition has shown this to be the case. In societies that do not prohibit polygyny in marriage, only a small percentage of the population practices it.Polygyny as practicality
When you consider gender population world wide in the majority of nations in the world women out number men. This is due to several reasons such as the fact that women have higher life expectancy and wars tend to decimate male populations, and men are more likely to die in violent crimes. Whatever may be the case if all men were to paired up with one woman in marriage it would leave millions of women unmarried with no marriage prospects. In Germany after World War II the male population was almost decimated. In order to address this tragedy the German government voted to legalize polygyny. German lawmakers and even consulted with the scholars of Al Ahzar university for advice on implementation. This idea was rejected by the church. As a result German women were pushed into prostitution in such large numbers that the German government decided to legalized prostitution.Conclusion
Marriage is not an institution of oppression but a just and sacred institution. Sexual promiscuity is not freedom for men or for women and women suffer more from sexual promiscuity then men do. Marriage is the answer to ensuring justice for women.
Polygyny has existed from the beginning of time and will continue until the day of judgement. It is not something that Islam invented but like marriage it is something that has conditions. Polygyny has been endorsed by both Judaism and Christianity. What Islam has done was place strict conditions on it. Sexual Polygny is also practiced in every culture in the world. Islam is the only religion that has placed strict guidelines on the practice and regulated it to the institution of marriage. -
Spot on Janma! No point arguing with a being like that. Ngomong Inggris aja ga becus gitu. Read again dummy, the stupid parents are yours cuk not mine. And dont tell me you can speak better Indonesian than most bules, it’s irrelevant.
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Ade Wanto says:
Ihaknt Says: Spot on Janma! No point arguing with a being like that. Ngomong Inggris aja ga becus gitu. Read again dummy, the stupid parents are yours cuk not mine. And dont tell me you can speak better Indonesian than most bules, it’s irrelevant.
Janma Says: Well, I’ve never seen desperate housewives, though I can understand why housewives get desperate,
Sylvester Says: It is not about the feminist movement. It is about protecting women basic right from lusty moslem who are using koran verses for their own sexual desire.
Ihaknt Says: Hence I moved to where my husband comes from! At least women are treated as equal! Why would you want to live in Indonesia anyway? Dusty, macet, panas, orang-orang munafik, ikut campur, FPI. ARRGGGHHH!!!Yes, Ihaknt idea is the best solution. Ask Janma, Joy, Parvita and many other woman like yourself to move out from Indonesia to your spouse’s country. Sylvester, I guess, can guarantee, protecting women basic right from lusty moslem there. And, before you all go, please seek Pakmantri first. After MRI, please check your nose up. And, if you need a hole, you can ask Sly to make one. Do you already have it, don’t you? You women are better go to Ihaknt spouse country rather to malasia.
what kwensi?
Ingland is a bitch
what malay?
malaysia is
one of bloody immoral ingland bitchesFrom Ingland is a bitch – a poem by Linton Kwensi Johnson.
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hi cong, hi bli, hi romo, hi antum,
hi maurice, hi maureen, hi everybody
hi gurls, hi gals,
hi ladies, hi gentlemen,
have you hear this song
(sung by T2, “Okay”)aku mau jawaban
cukup satu jawaban:
ah ah ah okay
ah ah ah okay
bilang saja okay
kumau dengar okay
ah ah ah
ah ah ahaku jadi capek deh.
Sylvester Says: Agree, Raden. Radical islam is surely a clear & present danger not for Indo only but to all humankind.
Whoops. Who is surely the clear and present danger for Indonesia? They whom die hard intend to save other peoples faith in this world? Or, they whom legalize laws on polygamy in Indonesia?
Mebbe, you have to read this quote Sly. Why Christians can’t take NO answer:
Because they are brainwashashed repressed suckers who think that just because they are gullible enough to think that cause there lives are sh*t then all of a sudden they have a “family” its their right to try and get other like minded gullible fools to join in on their bullsh*t cause you are trash until you admit that you are weak and a dirty sinner and join the cult of christianity where you will give a 10% tilth to belong and you will become weak and a sheep (which are possibly the most retarded and stupid animals with free thought).
hi V
you get lost, moron.Why don’t you just realize that in this flat world and in our room divide by glass wall, we can hide anything from something that mean many thing. You, I suppose, do not know anything say something and humiliate everything for nothing. Nah, lu sinting.
Let’s enjoy life. Enjoy our differences. We are just an ordinary people who want to live in ordinary life. Why we don’t build our world with no hate and no need to ill, humiliate, and disgrace other, do you? We can make many dreams come true, can’t we? Tolerance does not mean distinguish our differences. Tolerance means we respect our differences. We admit that our god(s) are different. Thus, our beliefs are different, our manners are different, and many things. So, the world will be colorful. You don’t think all human race are same, do you? The world will be boring when all creature are the same.
Aku jadi capek deh!
ah ah ah
ah ah ah
aku mau jawaban
cukup satu jawaban:
ah ah ah okay
ah ah ah okayfrom “Okay” a song sung by T2
Okay!
Btw, you can find me here:
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=2233570015_____________________________________________
Tuan Says: I do agree that non-Muslims are hypocritical when it comes to polygamy. If you are coming from a religious perspective, all the major prophets in the bible had more than women. If you are coming from a non-religious perspective, if you are going to condone polygamy in Islam then you better condone the swinger lifestyle or other polyamorous acts that happen in the West.
You don’t think Christians are hypocritical only when it comes to polygamy, do you? I’ll show you:
What is Christians?
They are those that say: “God is one of three.” (Quran 5:73)
They make of their clerics and their priests, and of the Messiah, the son of Mary, lords beside Allah, though they were ordered to say one god only. (Quran 9:31)
Do they say he is possessed? Surely he has proclaimed to them their truth. But most of them abhor the truth. Had the truth followed their appetites, the heavens, the earth, and all who dwell in them, would have surely been corrupted. We have given them their scriptures: yet to their scriptures they pay no heed. (Quran 23:71)pakmantri says: After all, we all believe that there is only one God and all religions were created by God for humankind, right?
This is typical Christians answer about differences in religion. They always say “God is one.” I wonder why Christians do not heed their scriptures. There is clear that Christians have three gods. Why Christians always say there is only one God. Whose God is one and only? Christians? This is a prove that Christians do not only hypocritical only when it comes to polygamy. In their faith, they are hypocrites.
With their basic theology, Christians always need to “save” others. Even the others have explained that they have their own faith. Why Christians will not stop to “save” others? You can ask Bush and Wolwofitz what reason they invade Iraq? Save Iraqi from whom? You can also questioning why Christians in many countries never will stop to “save” other religion. Save from whom?
For us, muslim, we have guidance:
For every community, We have ordained a ritual which they observe. Let them not dispute with you conserning this. Let them to the path of your Lord: you are rightly guided. If they argue with you, say: “Allah knows best all that you do. On the Day of Resurrecxtion Allah will judge your diferences. (Quran 22:69)We believe Allah is one and only god. Therefore, Muslim’s god is different to Christians, and other religion such as Jews, Hinduism, Buddhism, Taoism, Shintoism, and other. Each religion has their god(s), and each religion gods are different. Only Islam has stated clearly there is no god but Allah.
I don’t want to judge other religion. What their belief is theirs. What we belief is ours. What I belief is mine. What you belief is yours. Therefore, we must accept all differences (even an identical twin have differences): we are different in religion, in custom, in manner, in personal behavior. We only judge by the court of judge when we commit crime in this world. And, about religion, please don’t judge other. We totally different. Take our differences and live by that. And, don’t make a reason to save other. Save from what? Save from whom?
For moslems, we are have guidance:
Had Allah pleased all people of the earth would have believed in Allah, one and all. Would you then force people to have faith? (Quran 10:99)We, Muslims, do not force people to convert to Islam. Our Lord, named Allah, has released clear instruction to us do not force people to have faith. And, we have strictly guidance not make any compulsory in religion. This is the guidance:
These shall be no compulsion in religion. True guidance is now distinct from error. He that renounces idol-worship and puts his faith in Allah shall grasp a firm handle that will never break. Allah hears all and knows all. (Quran 2:256)Every humankind has freedom to choose their religion. That’s why many moslems do not force anyone (other religion) to receive Islam. For what? To fulfill our wallet? No, we, Muslims, do not do -as Christians do claim themselves- as savior of the faith in this world. It is a kind of joke, jest, or merry, isn’t it?
For us, as Indonesian (I am INDONESIA ASLI), what Christians do here in my homeland are very dangerous thing. They can jeopardy our togetherness. Indonesian have basic principles call Bhinneka Tunggal Ika (unity in diversity) that make all Indonesian can easily to accept many influence from alien culture.
Why do Christians not accept diversity in religion and culture? Why do Christians not admit that there are many gods and religion in this world? There is no obligation to save other faith isn’t it? If they have to do so, who have given permission to Christians to save other faith? Their lords? Whose? Which? (Sorry Anom, I borrow your question)
However, if many Christians ask about Arabisation in Indonesia, surely, that question make many Indonesian laughs. Why?
– What about Mandarinisation? There are so many Mandarin language and culture today in Indonesia;
– What about Chinesesation? There are so many Chinese cultural perform today in Indonesia;
– What about Englishsation? There are so many English language and culture today in Indonesia;
– What about Americanisation? There are so many American culture her in Indonesia today: junk food, movie, tv’ play, clothes, you named it;
What about Japanesesation? What about Koreanisation? And, what about WESTERNISATION? And, so on.We, Indonesians, for many centuries have been influencing by many alien cultures in our daily life. You can check in our national language, Bahasa Indonesia. Of course you can check it all in our daily life.
The question must go to the Christian. Why Christians do not accept people diversity include in their religion. Christians have tolerance haven’t you? However, why do Christians need to save other faith? And, why do Christians so bloody hate others. I can simply show you many evidences that Christians express their hate to: not only to Muslims, but to Catholics, Hinduism, Buddhism. All Christian very deeply need to ill, humiliate, and disgrace other religion. For what? To save other faith? From what? From whom? And, why other faith must save by Christians?
Fore sure, Christians do not only hypocritical when it comes to polygamy. They hate everyone whom different. Why? Cause they reject diversity (in faith and in religion). What Christians do in Indonesia is a potential problem to build Indonesia as a nation. As you know Indonesia has been reforming their social and political life. If there are many people fight against each other just because differences in religion, I don’t think as a nation Indonesia can solve many other problems. This is very dangerous play jeopardy our togetherness.
Do they jest and merry don’t they?
_____________________________________________
Tuan Says: The reason being is that back then Arabia was in total war amongst tribes.
dewaratugedeanom Says: Please enlighten me. If the man is only able to satisfy 1 wife, are the 3 others allowed to commit zina? Will they still go to Paradise?
Tuan Says: Well I do know that a Muslim woman has the right to divorce her husband if he can not satisfy her.As a human we can freely interpret what Quran say. In Islam tradition, we have a space to be different opinion to each other. We, muslims, call it, khilafiya.
However, Allah says: “Believers, do not ask questions about things which, if made known of you, would any pain you, but if you ask them when Quran is being revealed, they shall be made plain to you.” (Quran 5:101)
For me, it is safer not to argue with Allah. I am samina wa athona. And, for my self it better than be smarter than Allah. Who am I smarter than Allah? If you, non-moslem, will argue your gods, its yours. You can easily find an article at The Economist, London, Vol 806, No. 7533, January 16, 1988. That article clearly stated what is your gods.
But, if you check statistic of population nowadays in many region or country, you can find easily that comparison population of female more than male. Population in Jakarta show comparison male and female 1:7. I don’t know in Bali. It is a prove that female population more than male do not just caused by war.
Surely, I don’t know either, if a woman muslim has a right to divorce her husband if he can satisfy her (on what?). But, for sure, she can ask divorce if she disagree her husband take another wives. S/he can be infidel too if s/he deny a verse that stated clearly in Quran.
Cukurungan Says: The bottom line is you have no evidence or whatever to prove that the countries who don’t allow polygamy marriage have a better quality family life than otherwise “¦.don’t give-up “¦you still have plenty of times to prove it.
Cukurungan has the right point. There are many research prove in many countries which allow polygamy, marital relationships more healthier. You can see too at: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZUwTp66LZuA
This is one more reason why Allah give permission to a man can have more than one woman. There are many reasons human can find why Allah (Moslem’s God – other religion has their own gods) give permission to a man take more than one wife. Why do you (non moslem believer) so bother to polygamy issue in Islam. If your religion prohibit polygamy, why do you argue with us (moslem) which have permit to have many wives? If you antipolygamy, you don’t have to be a moslem (as you do now). For us, its stated clearly in Quran that a man can have more than one wife. And, we enjoy that privilege Allah give to us, moslems. Cause we are the best amongst people. So, why worry? It’s healthy and no sin. Do you jealous at us? Whoops.
For us, moslems, “My deeds are mine and your deeds are yours. You are not accountable for my actions, nor am I accountable for what you do.” (Quran 10:41)
Of course, you (non moslem believers) can interpret anything to our verse in Quran. But, please say to us just a name of ulamas or moslem leader whose don’t know that verse exist in Quran. Do they deny that verse? Do they think I create that verse? Show me one of them (who deny that verse which Allah give permission to a man can have more than one wife).
For sure, I quote again. This is the verse:
You may put off any of your wives you please and take to your bed any of them you please. Nor is it unlawful for you to receive any of those whom you have temporarily set aside. That is more proper, so that they what you give them. Allah knows what is in your hearts. Surely! Allah is all knowing and gracious.
It shall be unlawful for you to take more wives or to change your present wives for other women, through their beauty please you, unless they are slave-girls whom you own. Allah takes cognizance of all things. (Quran 33:51-52) -
It shall be unlawful for you to take more wives or to change your present wives for other women, through their beauty please you, unless they are slave-girls whom you own. Allah takes cognizance of all things. (Quran 33:51-52)
cool! we get to own slave girls now! God Bless the Ade Wanto version of the Quran, and thanks for reminding us that word of Allah is eternal and unchanging!
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Ade Wanto, sok tau banget sih lo! They are not Indonesian women who live outside Indonesia! Parvita lives in Indonesia, Janma is an Australian who lives in Indonesia, I dont know about Joy. Check you basic facts first!!! And dont forget to take your medication…
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Yes, Ihaknt idea is the best solution. Ask Janma, Joy, Parvita and many other woman like yourself to move out from Indonesia to your spouse’s country.
I am in my spouses country and why should we move? Only want like minded people here Ade Wanto? what happened to your championing of the cause for a tolerant indonesia? What happened to your belief that one should treat others with respect? What happened to your belief in the concepts of Sumpah Pemuda? Well, I got news for you sonny boy, we all get to live in Indonesia whether or not we agree with you!
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Ihaknt Says: Ade Wanto, sok tau banget sih lo!
Can you seperate sheeps from goats? (see Matt 25:33). And, distinguish them by your appetite? Whoops.
A: What will sheep say to goat when they meet?
B: Nothing idiot! Sheeps can’t talk. Neither goats. They both smirk.Sape yang munapik neh? Katenye banyak nyang munapik di Indonesia. Kasi bukti kongkrit dong. FPI dibilang munapik. Ane bilangin ame sohib ane lo, Habib Riziq.
Pakmantri Says: As my grandmother always says, if you don’t have anything good to say about other do not say anything.
A: What will apple say to banana when they meet?
B: Nothing idiot! Apples and bananas can’t talk.Are you apple or banana? Let’s talk fact about polygamy. Don’t just claim your brain as well as Albert Einstein or me. Use your brain to show us that poolygamy is a wrong way to humanity. Prove it if you can talk. Prove it as you say, “Unless one believes that God had made some mistake by creating religions other than yours or one believe that there are other Gods, I don’t!”
I think if you have a brain as same as a chimp you can prove that the same God has created many religions in this world. Do you think Siddharta Gautama has created this earth and heaven, don’t you? Do you think Jesus has created all religions, don’t you? What about Abraham, David, Moses, and Muhammad? Have they created this earth and heaven? Prove your word!
dewaratugedeanom Says: Please enlighten me. If the man is only able to satisfy 1 wife, are the 3 others allowed to commit zina? Will they still go to Paradise?
What do you need a lighter for? As far as I know, at Nyepi, you forbid to light a single lighter. Otherwise, as long as, you are in nude, your dick can easily find your three sister pussy. Don’t doubt it. And, you don’t have to fear about heaven. Your gods has taken all your sin. You can count all your sin to your gods account. Why do you worry about resurrection? Hell is only for moslem. There is no hell for others. You just make your confession, then abrakadabra, your sin will wipe out.
What is zina? Even sexual intercourse is a sin cause you can charge all your sin to Jesus, son of Mary, you don’t have to worry about hell. There is no hell for others, except Moslems. You still go to your paradise. Don’t doubt your religion, man. Your all deeds in this earth will forgiven by your lords. No matter what you did you still go to your religion’s paradise.
Each religion has their own god and their own heaven. So, we can live together without jeopardy our diversity. Your believe is yours. My believe is mine. Your gods is yours. My Allah is mine. Why do you bother of My Allah give permission to moslems to commit polygamy? Why do you insult our Phrophet and our Religion according to this polygamy issue? Do you have an evidence that polygamy ruin and jeopardy a community? Show us! Prove it!
It shall be unlawful for you to take more wives or to change your present wives for other women, through their beauty please you, unless they are slave-girls whom you own. Allah takes cognizance of all things. (Quran 33:51-52)
I wonder if you read that verse again. And, find asbabun nuzul.
Janma Says: what happened to your championing of the cause for a tolerant indonesia? What happened to your belief that one should treat others with respect? What happened to your belief in the concepts of Sumpah Pemuda?
What is tolerant? We -moslems- do must accept swinger life style? We -moslems- do must like westerner do to their wife? Tolerant mean accept differences. We -moslems- are diference from westerner’s (christian’s) life style. If our religion -Islam- give permission to a man to have more than one wife, why do you bother us? In contrary, if we say no to westerner’s (christian’s) life style, you point us, “Do not tolerant!” Prove it that Indonesian Moslems do not tolerant! Prove that Indonesian Moslems do not respect Soempah Pemoeda!
You can talk, can’t you? Are you an apple or banana?
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aduh ade wanto….. why bring your broken bottle to a gun fight?
whoops.
Comment on “Indonesian Women”.
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The reason being is that back then Arabia was in total war amongst tribes. In American terms, think of it as the wild west. At times, the women were left widows if their husband has died. In that society woman were dependent on men for that time. More or less polygmay was a mechanism to help some of the widows. At the sametime there are conditions. Men are to treat each wife fairly and equally even thought Quran mentions that it is not recommended to marry more than one if you can not be just to each.
I do agree that non-Muslims are hypocritical when it comes to polygamy. If you are coming from a religious perspective, all the major prophets in the bible had more than women. If you are coming from a non-religious perspective, if you are going to condone polygamy in Islam then you better condone the swinger lifestyle or other polyamorous acts that happen in the West.
In regards to a woman’s right, some scholars say that the man needs permission from a woman to marry another. Also if she disapproves of the marriage she can easily divorce her husband without his permission (something that was revolutionary at the time of Islam).
All in all, if consenting adults want to practice polygamy WHO ARE WE TO JUDGE. That is there business and the law permits them, let them be.
~Tuan – Indonesian American Muslim