Indonesian Women
Oct 3rd, 2007, in News, by PatungLaws that discriminate against women.
The recent 39th meeting of the Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination Against Women (CEDAW) in New York recommended Indonesia revoke all laws that are viewed as biased against women, said the Minister for Women’s Empowerment, Meutia Hatta, on 26th September.
Although Indonesia ratified the Convention 23 years ago Meutia says:
There are currently 29 laws which are gender-biased and we have suggested the relevant ministries amend them. I have heard that they are still evaluating them.
She cited the 1974 marriage law, which contains articles that permit men to commit polygamy, but not women, in the case of a wife’s infertility or inability to perform her “wifely duties”, and which also allows girls of 16 and 17 to marry, even though in other statutes such girls are considered still to be children.
Meutia said the Women’s Empowerment ministry had asked the Religious Affairs ministry to review any discriminative laws within its authority but had not yet received a response.
Meutia Farida Hatta.
She went on to say that at the meeting in New York concerns were also raised about the effect of the regional autonomy policy which had created discriminative regulations against women, such as the 2005 by-law in Tangerang, Banten, which stipulates that any woman seen alone in public after 19.00 could be considered a prostitute and arrested, as well as the various regional laws, such as this one in Malang, requiring women to obtain permission from their husbands to work at night.
Meuthia said the meeting also criticized the Indonesian government for its failure to fully integrate CEDAW convention compliance into Indonesian laws. The minister said this was because the details of the CEDAW convention were not yet known by government bodies.
CEDAW also asked the government to issue a firm policy against female circumcision.
Indonesia had not received an all negative report card however:
They noted some improvements like the issuance of the 1999 Law on Human Rights, the amendment to the 1945 Constitution, the 2004 Law on the Elimination of Domestic Violence, the 2006 Law on Witness’s and Victim’s Protection and the 2007 Law on Human Trafficking.
176 Comments on “Indonesian Women”
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Oigal says:
For moslem, it is individual’s choice
No its a pathetic insecure little man’s choice against a women who rarely has any choice
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Hassan, I believe that Qur’an doesn’t allow polygamy, which is clearly stated that people, in this case men, cannot be justice, and Allah is the most justice. Therefore, I also believe that those who think that polygamy is permitted in the Qur’an are not the follower of Islam, but follower of some kind group/sect which is based of hadits or something man-written.
Some people cannot understand between arabic culture and islam. Arab, is not Islam. Wearing beard, sorban, etc, is Arab culture. You want to know Islam, read the Qur’an alone, by yourself. The way Arabs treat women, is not Islam. Islam, like other religion, has been corrupted for political reason, even as soon as Muhammad died.
Btw, Khadija, the first wife of Muhammad, was 40 when she got married to Muhammad who was 25 at that time. Khadija proposed to Muhammad. Khadija is a filthy rich smart single business woman. Talking about woman being oppressed here, NOT! So, if you want to follow Muhammad, find a filthy rich smart 40 years old as a wife, not a naive helpless kampung woman (lucky enough if you are not considered as a toy boy these days).
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Janma says:
So, if you want to follow Muhammad, find a filthy rich smart 40 years old as a wife, not a naive helpless kampung woman (lucky enough if you are not considered as a toy boy these days).
Only problem is, any filthy rich smart 40 year old woman isn’t going to want to touch muslim polygamists with a 10ft pole!
Not many of these polygamists are in the league of boy toys! -
Hassan says:
Parvita:
Then you probably think that Allah SWT was just mocking men with this verse:
Qur’an 4:3 “…Marry women of your choice, Two or three or four; but if ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one, or (a captive) that your right hands possess, that will be more suitable, to prevent you from doing injustice. ”
Note the word if that I had highlighted. “IF” implied that there is a possibility of such thing actually happening, there’s a possibility that there are men who can deal justly with his wives. Otherwise, the wording would be something like: ‘surely you will not be able to deal justly with them’.
You want to know Islam, read the Qur’an alone, by yourself
The problem with individual translations like what you proposed is that you will lean toward personal interpretations that sound favorable to yourself. Like surah 4:3 for example, a woman will probably interpret it as prohibition of polygamy (although it could be more decisive had the verse sounded something like: thou shalt have no more than one wife). While for men, whether they read it alone or together with friends, they will most likely conclude that polygamy is allowed.
Your proposal will make the Qur’an into a highly subjective and too flexible Scripture with everyone having their own interpretations. Muslim society will never be able to clearly define Islamic laws and Qur’anic interpretations if such volatile approach is chosen. Everyone will think that their own interpretation is the correct one!
Btw, Khadija, the first wife of Muhammad, was 40 when she got married to Muhammad who was 25 at that time
But Muhammad had other wives afterwards that is unlike Khadija in terms of age. See, even in giving example you had showed bias to your own personal preference. Personal interpretation of the Qur’an can lead to people interpreting the Qur’an according to their own liking or whims. That’s not a good way to go.
So, if you want to follow Muhammad, find a filthy rich smart 40 years old as a wife, not a naive helpless kampung woman
As I mentioned, Muhammad (pbuh) had given us other examples on finding a suitable wife (wives), as none of the rest of his other wives is more than 40 years old when he married them. What’s wrong if we follow those examples instead? 🙂
in this case men, cannot be justice, and Allah is the most justice
Then we shouldn’t be generous too, because Allah SWT is the Most Generous. We shouldn’t be merciful, because Allah SWT is the Most Merciful. We shouldn’t be compassionate, because Allah SWT is the Most Compassionate. Where’s the logic in your argument Parvita?
When Allah SWT demanded that men must be just towards their wives, surely He doesn’t demand Allah-like justice from us, because He never demand such things from humans, He never demanded us of the things we are incapable to do. Show me things that He demand which we must copy exactly from His divine attributes (that we will never be able to do)! Hence, we should do justice only as humanly possible in the case of polygamy.
BTW, supporting polygamy doesn’t mean that I wanted to have more than one wife. I just don’t think that we should make haram what Allah SWT had made halal for us. What right did we have to prohibit things that He had allowed?
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Hassan, Muhammad also said that you can have slaves and captives…. so does that mean it’s ok to own slaves? Does it mean that you can rape them and marry them against their will and it’s ok? lovely!
Plus if I’m not wrong some of his wives were the wives of men his followers killed in their excess of zeal, so it’s ok to murder people and take their wives? I starting to like this fellow (Muhammad) more and more! *insert sarcasm*
Also in 4:129 is says.. ye are never able to be fair and just as between women, even if it is your ardent desire.
So what part of NEVER do you not understand? -
Pakmantri says:
Your proposal will make the Qur’an into a highly subjective and too flexible Scripture with everyone having their own interpretations. Muslim society will never be able to clearly define Islamic laws and Qur’anic interpretations if such volatile approach is chosen. Everyone will think that their own interpretation is the correct one!
Exactly, there are millions of clerics, ulamas, imams, mullahs, ustadz, etc, not counting the many different branches of Islam, with their own interpretations of Islam which one do I supposed to believe?
So, why not read It yourself? God gave us the greatest tools for this, they are what we call conscience and common-sense, use them.If does not feel right don’t do/use it, you don’t have to ask anybody for confirmation. Because two wrongs does not make it right.
And the same goes to any religion and its holy book.
That’s my take.
Peace. -
Mind you I am open minded, and it has occurred to me that I may not be being fair to Muhammad, simply because that was a long time ago and polygamy was the norm, not the exception in many societies, so actually he was in a sense restricting and regulating polygamy which had not been regulated so as to protect women. My beef with the whole thing is that if we hold on to outdated concepts in a world that is fast changing there can be no progress in human rights and women will always remain chattel and possessions of their husbands, one perfect example of this is what muhammad says about captives and slaves, it was normal at the time to have slaves, he said you could do what you like with them, obviously this is no longer the case. so things that he said actually are not set in stone and we can use our common sense and objectivity to apply them in our lives today.
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This is what’s pathetic about the whole thing. Those who claims they are Islam don’t read the Qur’an themselves. But again, only those permitted by Allah will be able to absorb the meaning of the Qur’an and understand it crystal clearly. Not all people are chosen and lucky.
Janma, Muhammad was not a polygamist when Khadija proposed to him. The point is, who on earth, a rich 40 years old single woman, at this era, would propose to a man who is only 25 years old and poor? Must be something that Muhammad has, that other guys at that time didn’t have. If he was only good in bed, she might just keep him as a toy boy. 🙂
Justice? If justice could be practised on earth, there wouldn’t be any war and poverty on earth, would there? One couldn’t even be justice to their children, for God’s sake, how could one be with those who are not blood related.
I believe women in Indonesia are still fighting the law that says that polygamy is permitted if the women couldn’t bear a child, or sick, etc. Still doesn’t sound fair. So if the women is sick then the husband can get another women? Bring another women home? That sounds cruel. What if the husband is the one that’s incapable, sterile, sick, paralysed? Ooooh, it’s the men’s ego thing….ooooh, it’s men’s world, I forgot…
Yet, even the law is pretty weak, I still see there are men that still stick to their ill wives, women who stick with husbands with bad genes, etc. There are still people with mind and heart who knows that love, feelings, cannot be divided.
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Parvita:
This is what’s pathetic about the whole thing. Those who claims they are Islam don’t read the Qur’an themselves.
What makes you think they don’t? Most Muslims read the Qur’an themselves (while no one’s around) and only on certain occasions did they read it and discuss it together, when they attend the ‘pengajian’ or something similar. Whatever idea you might have that most Muslims are spoon fed by the clerics, that notion is simply incorrect.
I for one, read the Qur’an mostly by myself, and I also read it’s translation. The difference between us is that I never had the feeling that I can understand and master all that was revealed in the Qur’an fully by myself. While people like you think that they have the divine knowledge to completely comprehend all the secrets of the Qur’an by themselves.
Now, if you are the on the right argument, I ask you this: what’s the meaning of those letters in the beginning of certain verses in the Qur’an? The aliif laam mim, or qaaf, or aliif lam ra, or thaa sin? Can you figure it out by yourself?
But again, only those permitted by Allah will be able to absorb the meaning of the Qur’an and understand it crystal clearly.
Those like yourself, maybe? Did I just detect a sense of self-righteousness in your words?
So if the women is sick then the husband can get another women? Bring another women home?
No, the husband must provide the second wife a home of her own, and not bring her the the first wife’s home.
There are still people with mind and heart who knows that love, feelings, cannot be divided.
Perhaps those people are wrong, if God allows polygamy then He must have thought that love can be divided (in men’s perspective anyway).
Janma:
Also in 4:129 is says.. ye are never able to be fair and just as between women, even if it is your ardent desire.
We must also consider to whom the verse was addressed. God addressed these words to Muhammad (pbuh) as a reminder because he was too inclined towards Aisha than his other wives at the time. And Allah SWT reminded him that although he can’t do justice among his wifes, he must try to not be too inclined to one and neglect the others.
Here’s the verse in it’s full form:
YUSUF ALI 4:129 “Ye are never able to be fair and just as between women, even if it is your ardent desire: But turn not away (from a woman) altogether, so as to leave her (as it were) hanging (in the air). If ye come to a friendly understanding, and practise self- restraint, Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.”
This verse was addressed for a married man (Muhammad pbuh), because only married women can be ‘left as if they were hung in the air’.
A clearer interpretation by Mohsin Khan:
MOHSIN KHAN 4:129 “You will never be able to do perfect justice between wives even if it is your ardent desire, so do not incline too much to one of them (by giving her more of your time and provision) so as to leave the other hanging (i.e. neither divorced nor married). And if you do justice, and do all that is right and fear Allah by keeping away from all that is wrong, then Allah is Ever OftForgiving, Most Merciful.
Parvita, this is a proof that even though Muhammad (pbuh) can’t do perfect justice among his wives, he is still allowed to perform polygamy. The same goes for today’s Muslim men.
Pakmantri and Janma:
God gave us the greatest tools for this, they are what we call conscience and common-sense,
we can use our common sense and objectivity to apply them in our lives today
Lets use a religious approach on this, so you may understand how religionists like me see it. The devil also used common sense to reject God’s commandment to bow down to Adam, and the result? Banishment and cursed into eternal damnation, because of his arrogance. See, for us, unguided common sense is not a good thing and can lead to arrogance. Guidance is the key for us.
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Let me elaborate the things that I said on the previous post. I’m not saying that Muslims don’t like to use common sense, common sense is important to understand Allah’s SWT signs throughout the universe, to understand His knowledge in form of the Qur’anic revelations, science and other forms of knowledge. It’s just that whatever common sense we use, it must be guided by and within the spiritual corridor of the Qur’an and Hadith.
Faith without common sense is blind, but common sense without faith is stray.
About the devil and his common sense, according to classic Islamic account, he was made of fire and is one of the Jinns. He was pious and worshiped God relentlessly. His piety was as such that he was spiritually exalted to earn his place among the angels. His only flaw was that he refused to bow down to Adam when Allah SWT ordered him to. His reasoning and common sense told him not to. Why? Because he was made of fire, while Adam was made from clay. And his spirituality was so high to have earn him a place in the paradise among the angels while Adam was yesterday’s boy. His common sense made him fail to obey God’s will, and that is his biggest undoing: arrogance and over-reliance on common sense over faith. We should not follow his example.
The word Muslim means one who submits to the will of Allah SWT, and not a person who merely follow his wild and unguided form of common sense (assumptions, prejudice, false logic, etc. which are not based on the Qur’an and Hadith)
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Ade Wanto says:
Hassan Says: Are you a Muslim, Parvita? If polygamy is allowed in the Qur’an and you’re questioning whether a polygamous marriage institution is acceptable and understandable by our
standard,
then aren’t you in fact questioning the Qur’an itself?
RADEN Says: I think so, a hypocrite who hide behind Quran to legalize his square ideology.
Sylvester Says: Janma, This guy is even worse than any radicals we ever meet.
Janma Says: Like many people I am not a muslim, and one of the major reasons that I find the Al Quran unacceptable, unbelievable and the Nabi Muhammad’s teachings………….Bla bla bla bla
What are you doing people? Be smarter than GOD?
You are not muslims but act like know better than me, an ordinary muslim.
Can you describe me what is taste of sugar? That question is the same
if you ask why Islam give permission to a man can marry to more than a woman.That’s a really basic question. You never find out what taste of sugar except you taste it by yourself. You never find out what reason Islam give permission to a man to commit polygamy except you are muslim. My question is why do you still argue about Islam way of life? If Islam give permission to a man can have four wives, and you disagree, you can choose other religion. (And, you are not muslim) It is a simple matter. You think we, muslim, will lose if someone (muslim) to be infidel, don’t you? So, what geto looh.
hello maurice
hello maureen
hi bli
what?
your gurl leave you.
with?
white monkeys.hi bob
hi eric
hey you. whassup?
where is janis?
remember Woodstock
you are god back there, man
yeaah. i was a god that time.however, guys,
Philip “a harvard librarian” Larkin says:So life was never better than
In nineteen sixty three
(Though just to late for me) –
Between the end of the Chatterley ban
And the Beatles’ first LP.From “Annus Mirabilis” -a poem by Philip Larkin
Bli, listen to these conversation. And, imagine it:
A : Why are Hinduist only in Bali and India? Not in country like Singapore.
B : They can’t littering on the street.A : Why Hinduist or Buddhist can’t be an astraunot?
B : They can’t burn a flavor-stick in outer space.Bli, have you ever listen to their song? Bob and Eric are pop stars? Woops. Or, your ear can’t swallow their poem, can you? Better you ask beach boy at Kuta, where is SUPERMAN IS DEAD?
You think Balinese will go like white monkeys, don’t you?
Listen to this song, Bli: “Kembalikan Baliku” by Guruh Soekarno Putra. You are not moron, are you, Bli?
Again! I’m asking what are you doing people? Be smarter than GOD?
Who is your REAL GOD, Sly? The Three Muskeeters? The Three Tenors? or, the Three Stooges? Which ones? Moe? Or whose? You know the others two, don’t you? Sly, then, you listen to this quote (my American fellow sent it to me):
Are you anti-Christians?
Shit, what is it with Christians? They gotta hate everyone, even themselves.
It’s not bad enough you’re the most intolerant religion on earth. You gotta discriminate against the Jews, wage war against Muslims then paint THEM as the war-mongerers (even though we’ve overrun their countries), and even hate atheists. And then, when you finally run out of people to hate, you turn on yourselves. Catholics hate Baptists, Baptists hate Protestants, and everyone hates Mormons. All this – even though you all believe in the same God. A God that doesn’t even f*cking make sense AND a God that tries to teach you love and tolerance.Christians are the most hypocritical species on the planet earth. You twist your own lines so that you can wage war, reward your own greed, and try to repress others. The most selfish people I’ve ever met in my life were all Christians.
What is your REAL GOD, Sly?
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And, for woman, listen to these quote (my American’s fellow sent it to me):
Moods of a Women
An angel of truth and a dream of fiction, a woman is a bundle of contradiction.
She’s afraid of a wasp, will scream at a mouse, but will tackle her boyfriend alone in the house.She’ll take him for better, she’ll take him for worse, she’ll break open his head and then be his nurse. But when he’s well and can get out of bed, she’ll pick up the tea-pot and aim for his head.
Beautiful and keenly sighted, yet blind, crafty and cruel, yet simple and kind, She’ll call him a king, then make him a clown, raise him on a pedestal, then knock him flat down.She’ll inspire him to deeds that ennoble man, or make him her lackey to carry her fan.
She’ll run away from him and never come back but if he runs away, then she’ll be on his tracks Sour as vinegar, sweet as a rose, she’ll kiss you one minute, then turn up her nose.She’ll win you in range, enchant you in silk, she’ll be stronger than brandy, milder than milk
At times she’ll be vengeful, merry and sad, she’ll hate you like poison, and love you like mad.The Lord and the Biker
A biker was riding along a California beach when suddenly the sky clouded above his head and, in a booming voice, the Lord said, “Because you have tried to be faithful to me in all ways, I will grant you one wish.” The biker pulled over and said, “Build a bridge to Hawaii so I can ride over anytime I want.”
The Lord said, “Your request is materialistic, think of the enormous challenges for that kind of undertaking. The supports required to reach the bottom of the Pacific! The concrete and steel it would take! It will nearly exhaust several natural resources. I can do it, but it is hard for me to justify your desire for worldly things.
Take a little more time and think of something that would honor and glorify me.
The biker thought about it for a long time. Finally he said, “Lord, I wish that I could understand my wife. I want to know how she feels inside, what she’s thinking when she gives me the silent treatment, why she cries, what she means when she says nothing’s wrong, and how I can make a woman truly happy.”The Lord replied, “Do you want two lanes or four on that bridge?”
As same as you, GOD, its better find another way rather fight with woman.
Remember Adam and Eve? Remember Abel and Cain?
Remember this quote:You’ll notice that what they have in common
is between the legs. Is this
why wars are fought?…….
This is no museum.
Who invented the word love?From “A Women’s Issue” a poem by Margaret Atwood
(an American well known feminist).Yeah, you’re right Miss Atwood. The first murder in this lusty world caused by woman. Go forward Margaret!
What are you, WOMAN? Me and Kwensi never know what you are really. Kwensi only says: “Ingland is a bitch.”
From “Ingland is a bitch” a poem by Linton Kwensi Johnson.
if you pretend yourself smarter than GOD, Janma, mebbe you can swallow those poems I quoted, did you, moron?
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Andrew says:
Yaaawn…. WTF was that?
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I’m being stalked!!!
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ade madman wanto on the loose.
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Ihaknt says:
Ini orang kenapa yah???
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I am sorry, my commonsense does not include arrogance, prejudice, nor the other things that you describe. I believe what you describe is the commonsense definition by Albert Einstein. And you forget about the “conscience”, Mr. Hassan. 🙂
I have to go now, I am a little allergic to Ade Wanto. I think he is on acid again. :))
Peace.
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dewaratugedeanom says:
Ade Wanto, Islam’s pride and joy.
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I beg to differ! 😀
Besides, I don’t think a Hindu (or non-Muslim) like you should be the judge to determine who or what is Islam’s pride and joy, anom.
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oh for god’s sake people!!! anyone can judge however they bloody like! that’s all we do here!
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I mean have they held ‘the Islam’s pride and joy contest’ and elect Ade Wanto as the winner?
No offense Ade, but I disagree with dewaratugedeanom’s statement that you’re Islam pride and joy.
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Hassan, Don’t you think that may have been a sarcastic statement?
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I dunno Janma, words coming from a guy like anom. When a person said bad things and insulted your religion often enough, sometimes you develop a certain amount of antipathy and suspicion towards his motives I guess…
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When a person said bad things and insulted your religion often enough, sometimes you develop a certain amount of antipathy and suspicion towards his motives I guess”¦
ok… I can understand it upsets you… it’s hard not to react when someone is attacking something dear to you…. I still feel he was being sarcastic.. but if not? then he is saying that people like Ade Wanto are representative of islam and what it is about islam that makes people not like it and what it stands for. Maybe if muslims (moderate humanist ones…) themselves protested against these fellows that create a bad image for other people then non-muslims wouldn’t have to be so vocal in their condemnation of some of the archaic opinions they hold and bandy about.
Muslims are so quick on to jump on the bandwagon and condemn people like the ahamdiya and the al quiyadah islamiya etc and say it’s ‘sesat’ and heretical but it seems they don’t protest the same way when confronted with hardliners who attack non-muslims, kill people and create havoc in the world in the name of their religion. -
Muslims are so quick on to jump on the bandwagon and condemn people like the ahamdiya and the al quiyadah islamiya etc and say it’s ‘sesat’ and heretical
When a person said bad things and insulted your religion often enough, sometimes you develop a certain amount of antipathy and suspicion towards his motives I guess
Talk about arrogance and prejudice …………………….. 🙂
Anyway, folk maybe we should change the rule of the game, here is my proposal:
People can only criticize and say bad things that they don’t like about their own religion and can only prise or say what is good about other people religion.
If you don’t have anything good to say about religion other than yours then do not say anything at all.
As my grandmother always says, if you don’t have anything good to say about other do not say anything.This way we can accept our own imperfections and value other people opinion. And may be learn that there are some good in religion other than our own. After all, we all believe that there is only one God and all religions were created by God for humankind, right? Unless one believes that God had made some mistake by creating religions other than yours or one believe that there are other Gods, I don’t!
Peace on earth.
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Billy Connelly said: If you want to judge a person, walk a mile in their shoes, that way when you criticise them you’ll be a mile away and wearing their shoes!
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Hassan said
If polygamy is allowed in the Qur’an and you’re questioning whether a polygamous marriage institution is acceptable and understandable by our standard, then aren’t you in fact questioning the Qur’an itself?
Although it is quite imaginable that in the 7th century because of continuous wars and a generally violent lifestyle the number of women largely exceeded that of men, let us assume that nowadays roughly 50% of the adult population is male and 50% is female. If under these circumstances each man is entitled to 4 wives and all of them want to make use of their Koranic rights, what about the 75% of men who are left without female partners?
I see several possibilities:
– 3 out of 4 male babies are to be aborted or killed at birth (good for keluarga berencana)
– develop gender-based in vitro fertilization or cloning
– emasculate 3 out of 4 boys and employ them as eunuchs in the harem of rich muslims
– perform transgender surgery instead of sunat and become bencong
– enlist as a jihadi, blow yourself up and be rewarded with lots of paradisiacal virgins
– promote mufkhaza (thighing) with little children, a practice popular in Arab countries, Iran, Pakistan and Afghanistan and approved by Ayatollah Khomeini in his Little Green Book.
– turn gay
– wank your brains out -
Ade Wanto says:
dewaratugedeanom Says: If under these circumstances each man is entitled to 4 wives and all of them want to make use of their Koranic rights, what about the 75% of men who are left without female partners?
I really don’t know the reason Allah (the muslim’s God) give permission to a man can have more than one wife. And, I don’t want to argue that issue. For us, as muslim, we samina wa athona. AS long as I know, there are not all muslim commit polygamy. Some of them remain monogamist. And, why do you worry can have a woman? I guess you check it at BPS, how many male and female people in Indonesia?
However, I really wonder why non muslims (which are not belong to this issue)
argue this polygamy matter. If they religion prohibit polygamy, why they argue the Islam way of life. You (non muslim) can live with your religion that prohibit polygamy. We, muslim, can live with ours religion. That’s all.And, do you think polygamy is a way to discriminate woman in Islam? Prove it.
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Pakmantri says : After all, we all believe that there is only one God and all religions were created by God for humankind, right?
Who is we? If there is only one God, why each religion has their own god’s name. Each religion has their own god. There are different dos to each others.
I suppose it will be better if I quote the verse:
Say : “The other believers, I do not worship what you worship, nor do you worship what I worship. I shall never worship what you worship, nor will you ever wporship what I worship. You have your own religion, and I have mine.”
and,
Say : “Allah is One, the Eternal Allah. Allah begot none, nor was Allah begotten. None is equal to Allah.”
What is your reason to say that “All religions were created by God for humankind”? Is it there any religion which create by Allah before Islam (and after Islam), isn’t it? Please says it one.
Of course, Allah sent forth thousands apostles to all tribe and nation. But, those apostles just for their tribe and nation. Not for all humankind. It is really wrong idea to say “we all believe that there is only one god.” Only, muslim has believe that one and only god is Allah.
I think you should ask other believer religion, what is their god? For muslim, god is Allah. What is god for Buddhism, Hinduism, Christianity, and others? Do you think their gods as same as Islam’s God, don’t you? I guess you check again.
Pakmantri says : Unless one believes that God had made some mistake by creating religions other than yours or one believe that there are other Gods, I don’t!
Who did create a religion? Do you think all religion in this world created by one God, don’t you? If you have opinion that “one believe that there are other Gods, I don’t” have anything to say. It is free world. You have rights to say anything. So do I. However, if you think Islam’s God -named Allah- is the same Creator other religions, I guess, you have to check it again. Allah only bless one religion in this world. There are no religion before and after Islam. If you have question, who create or invent other religion? I think, it will be better if you ask other religion.
We as a human has differences to each other -even an identical twins. We have different god. We have different religion’s way of life, etc. The question is: can we live in our differences without hate, and need to ill, humiliate, and disgrace other. I don’t think hate people is a best way to build a strong faith (no matter which god you worship). But, if you ask for it -humiliate My Prophet and Disgrace My Allah, I really can’t give my right, after you slapt me on my left.
And, listen again to this quote (my American’s friend sent me):
Are you anti-Christians?
Shit, what is it with Christians? They gotta hate everyone, even themselves.
It’s not bad enough you’re the most intolerant religion on earth. You gotta discriminate against the Jews, wage war against Muslims then paint THEM as the war-mongerers (even though we’ve overrun their countries), and even hate atheists. And then, when you finally run out of people to hate, you turn on yourselves. Catholics hate Baptists, Baptists hate Protestants, and everyone hates Mormons. All this – even though you all believe in the same God.
A God that doesn’t even f*cking make sense AND a God that tries to teach you love and tolerance.Christians are the most hypocritical species on the planet earth. You twist your own lines so that you can wage war, reward your own greed, and try to repress others. The most selfish people I’ve ever met in my life were all Christian.
That quote describing what’s going on in America -where many people has chosen to be infidel. Do you think that phenomenon won’t happen in Indonesia if you fulfill your faith by hate in heart, and need to ill, to humiliate, and to disgrace others, don’t you?
And, for all Indonesian, I guess: If you grow your faith by hate, someday we can easily to fight each other. Whom will take advantage of it? Bung Karno says: “Jas Merah!” (Jangan Suka Melupakan Sejarah). We, as Indonesian, are not build our faith in religion by hate and need to ill, humiliate, and disgrace other.
We admit our God are different, our religion are different, and also our custom are different. So, let’s make this living space -named Indonesia- more comfortable for everyone, to every believer of many religions. That matter -religion diversity- is more important than arguing Islam which give permission to a man can have more than one wife.
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Like many people I am not a muslim, and one of the major reasons that I find the Al Quran unacceptable, unbelievable and the Nabi Muhammad’s teachings unacceptable is simply because of this polygamy issue and the attitude to women… Parvita was wondering why we never get bored of debating this issue? Because we always search for a middle ground, so that we could accept or at least be more open minded about Islam, but these questions that cannot be answered satisfactorily by Muslims are still bugging the living hell out of us!