Sharia Application
Aug 22nd, 2007, in News, by PatungSharia can be applied without making Indonesia an Islamic state.
Fuad Amsyari of the Crescent Star Party, Partai Bulan Bintang (PBB), said in Jakarta on 21st August that the basic form of the state, Pancasila, did not need to be changed in order that sharia be applied. Instead, every law that was made could incorporate Islamic law.
It was a mistake to think that sharia application depended on an Islamic state, he said, and there was nothing in Pancasila that prevented sharia law from being applied in Indonesia. Every government policy and law could employ sharia, he said, and no discrimination against non-Muslims would occur.
There will be no discrimination because in Islam there can be no discrimination.
Another PBB leader, Sahar L. Hassan, agreed that sharia could be adopted without altering the constitution, and hoped that it could be applied at the level of the state, however, someone convicted of theft in an area for which the state was responsible would not suffer hand amputation, but in ordinary theft cases hand amputation would occur.
Meanwhile, in the interests of the further application of sharia law, the PBB is inviting clerics from throughout the country and well-known figures such as Muhammadiyah leader Din Syamsuddin, NU leader Hasyim Muzadi, Majelis Ulama Indonesia leader Ma’ruf Amin, Siddiq Amin of Persatuan Islam (Persis), and representatives of Dewan Dakwah, Hizbut Tahrir Indonesia, Dewan Masjid Indonesia, Ikatan Wanita Muslimat Indonesia, and the Badan Komunikasi Pemuda Remaja Masjid Indonesia (BKPRMI), to attend a meeting in Bogor, 24-26th August.
During this meeting it is hoped that ways to apply sharia in all aspects of life can be discussed, as well as the means of bringing this about, and specific proposals that can be put to the government and parliament. republika
246 Comments on “Sharia Application”
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Dimp says:
I wonder if these politicians who are so “pro-syariah” have actually applied these syariah on themsleves, why the need for these syariah law to be legalised? If these politicians think that syariah is the way to go, then start by obeying the syariah on their daily task. Start by telling the truth, and then we’ll talk about the rampant corruption that these politicians are involved to begin with.
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Rambutan says:
Well, fortunately, PBB is more or less dead after Yusril was fired form the cabinet. What a useless party. Good riddance!
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Augusto says:
Looking at the way things are going here in Indonesia (as well as in Malaysia) I doubt if this country can still remain secular much longer. I know there are a lot of Muslims here in Indonesia who don’t agree with the implementation of sharia, and they are the last resort to defend this country from being islamized. But too bad they are just watching their religious brothers and sisters doing their religious duty transforming this country into an islamic state without doing anything (except apologizing for them) to prevent it from happening.
There is not much the non Muslims here in Indonesia can do to prevent the implementation of sharia. The only thing they can do is prepare for the worse ie: convert or be subjugated (dhimmitude). The rich will just flee the country.
Now would the so called moderate Muslims (unreligious) pls use your compassion, conscience and some common sense to stop all these madness and prevent the implementation of sharia, so your non Muslims fellow men will not be persecuted and dhimmitude?
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Djoko says:
Looking at the way things are going here in Indonesia (as well as in Malaysia) I doubt if this country can still remain secular much longer.
What signs would those be exactly? A governorial candidate backed by a religious party in the capital of Indonesia couldn’t even get elected because the opposing team ran a very effective scare campaign on Islamic law. Anyone would have thought from your post that the people would be clamoring for a religious candidate like that, yet voters spurned him.
Theres a lot of fearmongering going on over a whole lot of nothing. A few backwater regencies make laws about wearing headscarves and everyone panics as though the foundation of the Indonesian state is in dire turmoil. The PBB (a party with 2% of the national vote in the last elections, and one which has to reapply for verification because it did not pass the electoral threshold) says something vague about Islamic law, and its enough to spur a post from yourself calling the end nigh for secularism in Indonesia.
A bit of perspective would be nice.
I wonder if these politicians who are so “pro-syariah” have actually applied these syariah on themsleves, why the need for these syariah law to be legalised? If these politicians think that syariah is the way to go, then start by obeying the syariah on their daily task. Start by telling the truth, and then we’ll talk about the rampant corruption that these politicians are involved to begin with.
Nice call Dimp. Most of the moralising on syariat Islam is wasted because the people who promote it are unclean themselves.
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Ihaknt says:
Halaaahh Dimp et al..are you all asleep and dreaming? Tell the truth? Hahaha yeah right…they just are pro-syariah to get the vote, nothing is clean in Indo…look at the hazy air not to mention politics!!
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Aluang Anak Bayang says:
Friends, shariah is 72 times better than man-made law. Allah knows best.
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dewaratugedeanom says:
Djoko said
Theres a lot of fearmongering going on over a whole lot of nothing. A few backwater regencies make laws about wearing headscarves and everyone panics as though the foundation of the Indonesian state is in dire turmoil.
Prophet Muhammad, Hitler et al also started on a small scale and look what happened. Better beware and don’t give totalitarian tendencies, whatever small they appear, a chance.
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Jokoboyo says:
Well well, syariah euphoria, although today maybe a small portion of syairah supporters but sooner or later it will outnumber the secular supporters. According to mas Jokoboyo, when ordinary street man the majority of Indonesian keep on suffering, they see no hope for future, starving all day long, since financial crises until today keep on starving, watching elites of Indonesian live prosperously while the majority starving while struggling to meet the daily needs, what else? But to join the syariah law, it is a logical choice for ordinary street people.
Hi minority, you like or dislike, it is the fact you must accept, we are Indonesia, MERDEKA!
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The nuances of mas Jokoboyo’s language is too complicated for dumbbell KSJ to grasp. What a diversity of yo-yos we have in IM!
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Pena Budaya says:
There will be no discrimination because in Islam there can be no discrimination.
Let’s learn the examples of countries those applied the sharia’s law like Saudi Arabia or Pakistan before claiming that applying sharia’s law or Islam as religion would not bring discrimination.
In Saudi Arabia, a woman’s testimony in court is worth half that of a man’s testimony. That is already a discrimination against women. Furthermore, under zina law in Pakistan and Saudi Arabia, extramarital sex is punishable by public whipping or even stoning to death. If a woman is raped, she runs a high risk of being charged with zina, particularly if she becomes pregnant. Does anybody – who support sharia – learn from the experiences of Indonesian female workers in Saudi Arabia who were raped by their employers?
History repeats and it only costs more…
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Sylvester says:
Sharia = evil. Full stop.
Low educated Indo were being tricked by evil Arabs with this sharia. Arabs want to rule the world using islam. Beware that Indo may fall under Arabs armpit. That’s obvious.
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Bas says:
Shariah is 72 times better? My own calculation say it is only 70.8 times better. That’s because Allah is 70.8 times better than the average human being (and 445 time better than the average PBB member).
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Daniel Khaleel says:
Take a good look at your self you supporters of Sharia. You are a minority in Indonesia. You think you can control a culture by your law. Sharia law is opposed to Gods law. God does not desire someone to be maimed or executed because of judgement that you pose. Do you think that you are without sin? Where ever you judge another, you are also guilty! You look at a woman and feel “sexual feelings” for her – guess what – you have already committed adultery. Allah cares about your heart. Your actions arise from your heart.
Face it you supporters of Sharia – no one wants Sharia! Sharia is harmful. Imagine punishing someone for stealing bread for feeding his family. I believe that Allah cares more for that “sinner” and if you listened to Allah’s voice speak to your heart you will know that you are a sinner through your actions.
God desires mercy and repentence. Judgement is from God – not from men. Love your creator and love your neighbour.
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Halleluya Daniel!
Nice to read this comment. ^_^ -
Cukurungan says:
Daniel Khaleel Says:
God desires mercy and repentence. Judgement is from God – not from men. Love your creator and love your neighbour.
Cukurungan :
We never deceived again with those nice wording …history told itself what has been done in line with those cheating words to natives Africa , America, Australia and our country.
You’re 100% correct that judgement from God but prosecution were already/will be done by the white man and we strongly believe that “sharia application” is the only way to escape of the whiteman prosecution.
Regard,
Provokator No.1 -
Have you ever seen a video of Sharia punishment being implemented? Truly you are already blind if you cannot see the cruelty of that system. Have you ever seen a stoning of a young girl for alleged “adultery” when in fact she was raped? Any person who believes that stoning a girl to death is the same as enacting justice is seriously perverted. Whether the “criminal” did in fact violate a commandment of Allah, Allah is all merciful and compassionate.
Don’t you see that? Picture yourself as a starving child, your mum a prostitute and your father a drug addict. You steal some rice to feed yourself and then you are punished by the “moral” people of society by having your arm broken (I have seen a punishment inflicted to a 10 year old boy in pakistan for this very crime. His arm was snapped in two.) Does not God – the all merciful and all compassionate, love that child? Yet you, a mere man, believe the child should be punished. Shame on you!
You have perverted the law of God through your hateful heart. The person who takes it upon himself to judge another person is standing in judgement himself. Do not believe for a moment that you will escape judgement on the day you face the Almighty. God will judge you based on the lack of mercy that you have shown to others.
If you love Allah, show that by your acts of mercy and compassion to others.
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Djoko asks: “What signs would those be exactly?” Djoko you can have all the information and evidence of the growing trend of islamization in this country right here: http://www.Indonesiamatters.com/t/sharia/ and here: http://www.Indonesiamatters.com/search/islamization provided by Patung but you rather ignore it and asked me to give you more signs?
You said: “A governorial candidate backed by a religious party in the capital of Indonesia couldn’t even get elected because the opposing team ran a very effective scare campaign on Islamic law.” Could you provide me with a reliable source for that: “the opposing team ran a very effective campaign on Islamic law”. You are right sharia is not very attractive in most major cities in Indonesia because most of the inhabitants are non-practicing Muslim, they have been modernized and are more educated than the rest of the country. Unfortunately the Islamists are not stupid, their target are the people living in the rural areas, which are still young, low educated and poor, desperate for a better life and gullible. They are the easiest target for the indoctrination of wahabbism from their mullahs and ulamas in their pesantren and madrassa funded by the saudi oil money. Once they fall into the mullahs and ulamas trap, they will voluntarily wage jihad for the cause of Allah against the secular government. They will attempt to liberate or separate themselves from the central govt by force if necessary, just like Aceh and the ongoing attempt in Padang. That is what is happening now in the remote south of Thailand and Phillipine even when the Muslims are the minority, they demand special treatment and laws.
You said: “Anyone would have thought from your post that the people would be clamoring for a religious candidate like that, yet voters spurned him.” That is up to the readers to judge, anyway like I said the islamists will lure the gullible to vote for Islamic base pol parties promisisng them they will end corruption and bring prosperity, yes it wont happened over night. But it won’t take too long, have you ever heard of this caliphate mission and vision of HTI say five years ago or during the Suharto’s regime? Dou you thing they have so many supporters back then or even exist? Today Islamists have abused democracy, the freedom of expression is used to express hatred against non Muslim and inequality of gender and to topple the sec and democratic govt and replace it by sharia, the supreme law design by Allah.
You said: ‘Theres a lot of fearmongering going on over a whole lot of nothing. A few backwater regencies make laws about wearing headscarves and everyone panics as though the foundation of the Indonesian state is in dire turmoil.’ Are you saying that those 2 bali bombs killing hundreds of innocent civilian, the embassies bombing, the beheading of 3 Christian school girls, the Danish cartoon riots that killed many innocent worldwide is a whole lot of nothing and people should not become fearful of Islam. You sound as if there is nothing wrong with what these islamists and jihadists are doing, you even downplay the effect of so many new radical clerics and pol parties here in Indonesia that are getting more support from the people. These islamist org or pol parties would not last if they do not have the support from the people.
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Have you ever seen a video of Sharia punishment being implemented? Truly you are already blind if you cannot see the cruelty of that system. Have you ever seen a stoning of a young girl for alleged “adultery” when in fact she was raped? Any person who believes that stoning a girl to death is the same as enacting justice is seriously perverted. Whether the “criminal” did in fact violate a commandment of Allah, Allah is all merciful and compassionate.
Have ever seen this
Women Who Rape Young Boys
http://www.fathermag.com/news/rape/70-youngboys/Young boy sex: woman accused of having sex with two young boys.
Young boy sex: Woman charged with raping boy.
Woman Therapist Is Charged with Physical and Sexual Assault on Boy, 4
Woman arrested for alleged sex with 6-year-old boy.
Woman sentenced in sex-abuse case.
Elderly woman allegedly rapes boy for 3 years.We don’t want this kind of thing to happen in this country.
No law system is immune toward wrong application include sharia law but this world’s isn’t a home to seek the ultimate justice if those girls is innocent God will replace her agony in this world with immortal happiness in the life after die and the crime perpetrator will be thrown to hellfire forever.
Don’t you see that? Picture yourself as a starving child, your mum a prostitute and your father a drug addict. You steal some rice to feed yourself and then you are punished by the “moral” people of society by having your arm broken (I have seen a punishment inflicted to a 10 year old boy in pakistan for this very crime. His arm was snapped in two.) Does not God – the all merciful and all compassionate, love that child? Yet you, a mere man, believe the child should be punished. Shame on you!
Under sharia law no mother become prostitute and no father become a drug addict because before those sinners are growing worst sharia will fix it.
Again you put wrong application as an example because the correct application of sharia law the boy should be freed and major or Bupati should be punished who lead his people starved. -
Under sharia law no mother become prostitute and no father become a drug addict because before those sinners are growing worst sharia will fix it.
A very laughable statement. Holds no ground at all. Very naive of you cuky.
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Augusto:
You have made a very good argument that there IS an Islamization (or more specifically a radical Islamization) process in Indonesia. There’s no doubting there are sections of the Islamic community which want to see an Islamic state in Indonesia. What hasn’t been effectively shown is whether or not they constitute an imminent threat to the existence of the secular Indonesian state. LSI has done quite a few surveys on voting behaviour and political attitudes and they have consistently shown that political Islam (much less radical Islam) is a distinct minority. If you look at the election results in 1955 where Islamic parties gained about 40% of the vote (not a majority even then), Islamic parties and movements are now fairing worse than even then (now accounting for about 20% of the vote or thereabouts). How does this stark decrease in support in elections and the results of surveys showing continuing support for Pancasila play into your theory of Indonesian secularism being on its death knell?
Of course during the Soeharto period for the most part these movements were kept under wraps totally by the military, but they still existed, moving about more quietly in their activities, but not really being any less in number or strength (which is still to say not many).
What I’m trying to say is that the secular Indonesian state is not under threat any time soon, which it seemed it was from your original post, and I apologize if I have misread it in that case. By the same token I hope you don’t misread my posts as being support for terrorists or radical Islamists.
There is just one other thing which I thought might be an idea to clear up:
Are you saying that those 2 bali bombs killing hundreds of innocent civilian, the embassies bombing, the beheading of 3 Christian school girls, the Danish cartoon riots that killed many innocent worldwide is a whole lot of nothing and people should not become fearful of Islam.
Is it Islam itself or radical Islam we should be fearing? If its Islam itself (as written in your post there), what should we do about it (and Muslims)?
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Manuel says:
Yes other religion should not worry, sharia is the answer to all problems and way out to all difficulties Indonesia has been having. Other religion should not be worry as long as they submit their self and follow the real way, the only way, the sharia way.
With sharia Indonesia will be the superior country in the world, there will be no poverty, there shall be no criminals, live will be peaceful and everybody will spend five time a day of praying.
Man will have more than one wife, all women will have to use cover there will be no more rapist, there will be no more tv’s but religious show, no more MTV but a nice harmonious and peaceful gambus and qasidah.
All those beautiful camels will roam free in the street, the sound of adzan will be heard through out the countries, street will be empty around friday pray.
I am writing this then I realize I should spend my time alone praying to GOD, dear merciful GOD who sent Jesus to save us human, please keep those stupid people away, so my son could live peacefully and happily before I could afford to send him to US or Australia for better living.
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Cukurungan, you have just confirmed something for me. Our frame of reference for looking at the world are certainly different. You view the world through a fatalistic frame of reference. I do not adhere to that world view.
You consider the general well being of the community as a whole, bypassing the individuals who make up the community. I consider the well being of the individuals who make up the community. You believe that Sharia (properly implemented and policed) can solve the sickness of community. I believe that Sharia in essence is wrong (no person should enact judgement but God alone, and the person who does enact that judgement will be judged worse of all). I also believe that the problem of Sharia is compounded due to the corrupt nature of the humans who implement and police the system (all humans have a capacity for unrestrained sin and unrestrained good in their life. Usually both are expressed in life).
There are perhaps aspects of Sharia that are good, in that it tries to articulate the holy and righteous nature of the Almighty (God is without sin and detests sin). But that should serve as a motivation for humans to try to live the righteous life. Where we fail, we find solace in the second great aspect of the Almighty – his strong desire for grace and mercy. Remember – Allah is the all merciful and all compassionate.
Think honestly. How can you, in one breath call Allah the all merciful and all compassionate, and in the next breath yell out Allahu Akhbar while stoning a child to death, or cutting off his hand, don’t you contradict yourself?
What is the difference Cukurungan? Have you ever looked at a woman who is not your wife and in your heart thought an impure thought? (be honest) Doesn’t God say “Do not covet?”. Think of the grace that God shows you by not revealing your sin to the world. Please consider that grace when you look at others. Be a man of peace and mercy. God desires people to be reconciled to Him. He does not delight in death.
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Pieter says:
Aluang Anak Bayang Says:
August 22nd, 2007 at 7:57 pm
Friends, shariah is 72 times better than man-made law. Allah knows best.
Well, considering that we Humanists and Atheists do not believe in god and think of it as a human invention/creation, hence man-made. Your stands that Allah knows best does not go up for us!
Just live and let live. What the hell do you care what others do or do not do, eat and do not eat, etc? Live your life according to your believes and let others do accordingly! Perhaps the teachings of Erasmus would enlighten you a bit and avoid bringing your nice country to the dark ages.
Regard,
Pieter -
DoOs says:
Its too bad the Shariah losers are not the ones who have the real money :D.
Let me say this.
$$ An empty basket
Islamic Extremists —-> $$ inside the basket!
Common at least have some worthy skills of getting money… I pity those guys, losers in life.
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Falcon says:
Sharia. now every man can have four wives, every wive gives birth to 5 or more children, and in 60 years the country will be short of food and no jobs, probably worst in 100 years. Huge surplus of people, become TKWs and TKLs and re-exported to Middle East. Now the middle easterners shall be wondering if the sharia rule is working for their best interest. The fact is, that majority of the population in rich middle eastern countries are not the Arabs, they are guest workers and sooner or later they will demand their political rights.
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Assalamualaikum.
Dear brother Pieter,
There is no such things as Humanists and Atheists in the eyes of the true believer. You are either Muslim or non-Muslim (unbeliever who incur the wrath of Allah swt). Our creator, Allah swt had made it clear that Islam is the only religion for all mankind.
Bukhari:V9B84N59 “Allah’s Apostle said, ‘I have been ordered to fight the people till they say: “None has the right to be worshipped but Allah.” Whoever says this will save his property and his life from me.'”Dear DoOs,
There is no extremists in Islam. It is either good or bad Muslim. Good Muslims are those who follow in the footstep of prophet Mohammad ppbuh. Bad Muslim are those swept away by the tsunamis and killed by earthqakes. Allah seeth, heareth and knoweth all things.Salam.
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Enigmatic says:
Sharia MAY have been OK with the Muslims here… but here’s what non-Muslims stand to face under a sharia run country.
Under Sharia law non-Muslims may be subjected to Sharia Laws however it codifies the treatment of dhimmis in relation to the Muslim state and in cases of over-lapping jurisdiction. Dhimmis are distinctly second-class citizens in that they cannot serve in public office, cannot testify in court and must follow certain rules meant for living on Muslim land and under Muslim protection (such as paying the jizya). The jizya or tax is enforced on those who broke a treaty or attacked Muslim with no right (as a punishment) or required from those who ask for protection without enrolling in the army. The rules include privilege to practice their own religion, except for public demonstration of non-Muslim religious practices and the right to convert Muslims.
The core component of treatment is the jizya, or tax specifically upon non-Muslims. The jizya originates in the Qur’an which says “Fight against those who believe not in Allah, nor in the Last Day, nor forbid that which has been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger and those who acknowledge not the religion of the truth among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians), until they pay the Jizyah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.”[Qur’an 9:29
I dont know how you will feel in such a country. I wont feel too good because I am a free thinker…
Aluang Anak Bayang Says:
August 23rd, 2007 at 11:07 pm
Assalamualaikum.Dear DoOs,
There is no extremists in Islam. It is either good or bad Muslim. Good Muslims are those who follow in the footstep of prophet Mohammad ppbuh. Bad Muslim are those swept away by the tsunamis and killed by earthqakes. Allah seeth, heareth and knoweth all things.Oooo so the Muslims among the 200000++ people who died deserve it eh? Allah is great eh? What if some occur to be clerics in mosques? Are they bad Muslims? Or do you say, ” Oops, sorry. My mistake here.”
Aluang, I do not hold grudges against you or any Muslims. I know you are an active, zeal promoter of your religion. However you are not glorifying Islam by associating it with death and destruction; you are doing the reverse. Please remember that.
Cheers
Enigmatic
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Dear Enigmatic re jizyah tax. Aren’t the non-Muslims in Malaysia paying the ‘jizyah tax’? The 40% plus non-Muslims in Malayisa contributed over 90% of tax collected by the government.
re,
Oooo so the Muslims among the 200000++ people who died deserve it eh? Allah is great eh? What if some occur to be clerics in mosques? Are they bad Muslims? Or do you say, ” Oops, sorry. My mistake here.”
Precisely, our creator decides on the fate of those who perished. It was confirmed by Egypt’s top Muslim geologist, Professor El-Naggar. Tetonic plates or global warming have nothing to do it, Allah swt punished the Achenese and Javanese for letting the Christians celebrate Christmas, and tolerating Hindu worshippers in Bali. These disasters are wrath of Allah swt. Professor El Naggar is a scientist of international fame, and he specialized in earth structure. How could he be wrong.
Every great Muslim scholar who studied the Quran echoed the same tune, check them out,
http://memri.org/bin/articles.cgi?Page=archives&Area=sd&ID=SP84205Salam.
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Based on what aluang said, in can be concluded that his allah is full of jealousy, hatred, arrogant, like to punish, killer, all evil characteristics.
If that really what islam is, atheis is much better.
Comment on “Sharia Application”.
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Here we go again. Is there one country on earth that applies islamic law that does NOT discriminate against its non-Muslim minority? On what basis does Mr. Amsyari make the claim that there can be no discrimination in Islam. We already see lots of discrimination against minorities without Islamic law; discrimination will only increase if given legal sanction under sharia law. Additionally a whole new army of religious police will have to be hired in order to spy on the rakyat to ensure their morality. Who will pay their salaries? Maybe these jobs will go to PBB members.
I would love to see how this hand amputation plan is going to work. Might as well start with the politicians, government officials, judges, police, army, and schoolteachers. Who will be left intact I wonder? One things for sure – the first guy amputated under shariah will be none of the above – it will be the poor guy caught stealing a government chicken.