Heretic Outreach

Jul 3rd, 2007, in News, by

The government reaches out to heretics.

The head of the Bengkulu office of the Department of Religion (Depag), Mukhtaridi Baidjuri, has invited any members of non-orthodox Islamic groups to give up their strange beliefs and return to the fold of government approved Islam.

We are inviting them to return to the correct teachings, ie., those based on the Quran and hadiths of Muhammad.

He said there were many followers of heretical groups such as Ahmadiyah in Bengkulu and they often tried to spread their beliefs to others. In one village alone of North Bengkulu, called Sungai Hitam, there were 150 Ahmadiyah members, he worried. The Majelis Ulama Indonesia (MUI) had already ruled that Ahmadiyah was unacceptable, he said, because Ahmadiyah recognised a prophet after Muhammad, Mirza Ghulam Ahmad of Pakistan, whereas in true Islam God had no more need of prophets after Muhammad bin Abdullah.

The call had already been sent out:

We have already invited them to return to true Islam, but the problem is that whether they choose to listen to us or not is up to them.

He said no force could be used to sway them, only urging and asking. However if they insisted on keeping to their false beliefs they must not attempt to proselytize to others, because this could lead to things happening that no-one wanted, he said.


168 Comments on “Heretic Outreach”

  1. dewaratugedeanom says:

    My advice to the world, especially the kafir, the infidels and all those who aren’t indoctrinated or contaminated by Islamic upbringing: READ THE KORAN! By doing so you will understand that in fact it is written by and for the middle-eastern Semitic races who erroneously consider themselves superior and chosen to rule the world, but instead seem to have abnormal levels of spite, hate and intolerance in their genes.

  2. dewaratugedeanom says:

    Come to think of it, also read Cukurungan’s comments!

  3. Raden says:

    Shiva,
    Thanks for sharing with such detail, some of us may not have those Koran knowledge.

    A truly democratic society must not banned a specific ideology at first set-up, but everyone must respect each other existance. If one ideology start on physical attack against others, it is the duty of government to take over the control in a neutral side. Hence, in Indonesia with multi-culturals & religions set-up, a fully democratic society will be very costly. If Indonesia lack of funding and political commitment to run an equal rights for a democracy, then the minorities will easily become victims. Therefore it is the choice to the minorities to stay or stay-away from ‘barbaric democracy’ Indonesia system.

    If we start condemning other ideology believers like president Bush then we are just another Bush administration extention.

    Btw, the hudaibiyah story is another disturbing facts indeed! If it happens in the USA land, can we blame on George Bush to take his current counter-terrorism policy & stricker measurements?

  4. Shiva says:

    Cukurungan Says:

    For sure, I won’t take an india girls to becomes my slave because it seemed they don’t have enough water to do regular showers.

    Rather revealling how you show contempt for women by your chose of words, you use the word slave instead of maid or domestic worker.

    Also you reveal that you dont have enough money to supply water for your slave, because as a slavemaster it is for you to supply water.

    The truth is no self respecting Indian girl would choose to become a slave of a Muslim. Also I very much doubt they would become maids for a Muslim either

    Ever hear the word Sati

    Not the Indonesia Sate, which is grilled sh*t eating goat, or sh*t eatting chicken. (Halal Ha Ha)

    Sati is where a Hindu woman would burn herself to death when her husbanb died. Most Hindu women chose to burn themselves rather rather become slave of the Moghuls when they invaded India

    Now answer me this, why is it that most of the domestic workers here in Indonesia, happen to be Muslim

    And why is it that 90% of the prostitutes in Indonesia happen to come from Muslim families and islamic upbringing.

    You do not find Hindu or Christian girls selling themselves in the bars in Jakarta or Kuta, it is only Muslim girls that can be found in Dollies and Sanur and Tretes

    Why is it mainly Muslim girls looking to marry “BULE”

    Could it be that they dont like their husbands lying down dreaming of the proverbial virgins

    Our prophet said whoever a moslem has a foods enough on the table for his family, has a goods health and live peacefully in his own community.

    By the way you give a false quote

    Here is the correct surah

    Qur’an 4:3

    “If you fear that you shall not be able to deal justly with orphans, marry women of your choice who seem good to you, two or three or four; but if you fear that you shall not be able to do justice (to so many), then only one, or (a slave) that you possess, that will be more suitable. And give the women their dower as a free gift; but if they, of their own good pleasure, remit any part of it to you, eat it with enjoyment, take it with right good cheer and absorb it (in your wealth).”

    But you also compound your decietfulness by not adding the Surah which abrogates/replaces the above Surah

    Qur’an 33:51 “You may have whomever you desire; there is no blame.”

    I always remember my ancestors message that an Indian poses more danger than a king cobra.

    Could be because an Indian would fight rather than submit to a false moon god and retain his heritage, where as your Javanese ancestors laid on their backs and submitted, for-saking a rich heritage, thus becoming morons of Islam.

  5. Achmad Sudarsono says:

    Shiva,

    Shit. I just realised — you’re a bit thick.

  6. Shiva says:

    Achmad Sudarsono Says:

    you’re a bit thick.

    Thats one of the requirements when debating with Muslims, Especially when they are not versed in the art of Taquiwa and of such low calibre as you.

  7. Achmad Sudarsono says:

    Shiva,

    Another style tip: stick to the language you’re debating in or explain terms in foreign languages. Peppering your prose with fancy foreign words doesn’t change its meaning. Form follows function.

    I offered the insult over comments like this:

    The truth is no self respecting Indian girl would choose to become a slave of a Muslim. Also I very much doubt they would become maids for a Muslim either

    Um, aren’t there a few million Muslims in India ?

    Sati is where a Hindu woman would burn herself to death when her husbanb died. Most Hindu women chose to burn themselves rather rather become slave of the Moghuls when they invaded India

    I doubt modern Indian women are too fond of Suttee…

    Now answer me this, why is it that most of the domestic workers here in Indonesia, happen to be Muslim

    And why is it that 90% of the prostitutes in Indonesia happen to come from Muslim families and islamic upbringing.

    Probably both for the same reason – that about 90 % of the population is Muslim and prostitution has little to do with religion, but income, sociology, employment opportunities.

    Manila’s not exactly a slouch in the prostitution department. I don’t have the first-hand experience of red-light districts you seem to, but I’d venture that most hookers up there are Christian. Except perhaps the 5-10 percent Muslim, as above, in line with the population.

    You do not find Hindu or Christian girls selling themselves in the bars in Jakarta or Kuta, it is only Muslim girls that can be found in Dollies and Sanur and Tretes

    Look harder pal.

  8. Cukurungan says:

    Shiva:

    Now answer me this, why is it that most of the domestic workers here in Indonesia, happen to be Muslim
    And why is it that 90% of the prostitutes in Indonesia happen to come from Muslim families and islamic upbringing.

    Cukurungan :

    Because some our sister, her genetic and DNA still contaminated with heritage of the corrupt cult India. Don’t worry one Sharia Islam is in place we will have a method to clean and wash our sister from those corrupt cult.

  9. Sputjam says:

    No point undermining personal beleiefs by focussing on the negatives.

    For me one thing is clear. The messages in the koran is not about religion. In fact, it is a warning for those who embrace religion.
    Hence there are clear passages whereby prophets of old confronts those who worship things, and said these are clearly people without guidance and knowledge.
    In the koran, there are messages warning the masses against taking preachers, clerics, monks and imams as partners besides God. This message clearly warns us that religious scholars will lead us all astray.
    different people have differing opinion on the translatioons in the koran.
    The words “kill” and “fight” could mean “confront” and “debate”.
    prophet Mohamed was morked and threatended by the Arabs in mecca. The meccans were idol worshippers and Mohamed warned them about the futility in idol worship.
    but mecca is now the largest pagan worship centre in the world. prophet Mohamed, as Jesus and moses, failed to cinvince the masses to abandon idol worship.
    The Arabs, instead, used sunnah and hadiths in order to make the masses becomes pagans.
    prophet Mohamed dare not add or sutract even a word in the Koran. Only imams dare write a whole book on the sunnah and hadiths and claimed that it is an equal to the koran.

  10. Shiva says:

    May be I should get back on topic

    The head of the Bengkulu office of the Department of Religion (Depag), Mukhtaridi Baidjuri, has invited any members of non-orthodox Islamic groups to give up their strange beliefs and return to the fold of government approved Islam.

    He said no force could be used to sway them, only urging and asking. However if they insisted on keeping to their false beliefs they must not attempt to proselytize to others, because this could lead to things happening that no-one wanted, he said.

    HMMM because this could lead to things happening that no-one wanted,

    Qur’an 33:64
    “Verily Allah has cursed the Unbelievers and has prepared for them a Blazing Fire to dwell in forever. No protector will they find, nor savior. That Day their faces will be turned upside down in the Fire. They will say: ‘Woe to us! We should have obeyed Allah and obeyed the Messenger!’ ‘Our Lord! Give them double torment and curse them with a very great Curse!'”

    THE HAPPY MOSLEM FAMILY
    Shia killing Sunni, Sunni Killing Ahmadiyah

    Qur’an 5:10
    “Those who reject, disbelieve and deny Our signs, proofs and verses will be companions of Hell-Fire.”

    Bukhari:V4B52N260
    “The Prophet said, ‘If a Muslim discards his religion, kill him.'”

    ——————————————————————–
    Achmad Sudarsono

    Probably both for the same reason – that about 90 % of the population is Muslim and prostitution has little to do with religion, but income, sociology, employment opportunities.

    Islam is political movement, masquerading as a religion, is contaminated with all the perversions, lusts, and control mechanisms of its secular cousins, German Nazism, Italian Fascism, Japanese Imperialism, Stalinist/Maoist Communism.

    Islam’s goal is to overthrow all competing governments and establish the Khalifat. The Islamic utopian blueprint calls for a Caliph (a glorified Mullah) to wield the Islamic sword of power in one seamless totalitarian worldwide state.

    In Islam all aspects of personal, religious, and political life become merged, so income, sociology, employment opportunities and prostitution has a lot to do with Islam

    Pure Islam is first and foremost a political movement – a quest for political power for the express purpose of using it to subjugate all people everywhere.

    Now bearing this in mind we can come back on topic again

    What I find scary that it is an official of the goverment Mukhtaridi Baidjuri. The head of the Bengkulu office of the Department of Religion (Depag), that is making the veiled threat.

    Islam is not initially opposed to democratic processes To Muslims in non-Muslim lands, democracy represents a convenient tool, not an enemy.

    Remember Khomeini came to rule through democratic means, but once in power he killed the process that elevated him to power.

    Through democratic means Islam seeks opportunity through discontent, deception, conversions, and/or demographics to seize control of government institutions, and then gradually to introduce ‘reforms’ until the region is subject to every form of Islamic manipulation and governance.

    Non-Muslims in democracies are not initially mistreated, but as the power of Muslim traditionalists’ increases, freedoms and protections erode and persecution begins.

    This modus operandi is the template Muhammad taught by example in conquering the indigenous people in Medina and Mecca ,

    Those countries that prove resistant to such methods are subject to more violent forms of Jihad to weaken them to the point that they accept and submit to the dictates of Muslim political ambitions.

    Ultimately, Islam offers only three options to non-believers, “¦convert, pay Jizya (become slaves to superior Islamic masters), or die.

    Islam is no different than German Nazism, Italian Fascism, Japanese Imperialism, Stalinist/Maoist Communism, Though they differ in their methods of control, they are all cut from the same totalitarian cloth. The Columbia Encyclopedia, 2001 Sixth Edition defines totalitarianism as;
    “A modern autocratic government in which the state involves itself in all facets of society, including the daily life of its citizens. A totalitarian government seeks to control not only all economic/political matters, but also the attitudes, values, and beliefs of its population, erasing the distinction between state and society. The citizen’s duty to the state becomes the primary concern of the community, and the goal of the state is the replacement of existing society with a perfect society.”

    Qur’an:8:39
    “So, fight them till all opposition ends and the only religion is Islam.”

    Qur’an:5:33 “The punishment for those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger and strive after corruption, making mischief in the land [those who refuse to surrender to Islam] is murder, execution, crucifixion, the cutting off of hands and feet on opposite sides, or they should be imprisoned. That is their degradation and disgrace in this world. And a great torment of an awful doom awaits them in the hereafter. Except for those who repent (and become Muslims) before you overpower them and they fall into your control.”

  11. Shiva says:

    Cukurungan :

    Because some our sister, her genetic and DNA still contaminated with heritage of the corrupt cult India. Don’t worry one Sharia Islam is in place we will have a method to clean and wash our sister from those corrupt cult.

    Good Bye Java

    Hello Sharia and the practice of religiosly ordained prostitution in the form of Nikah Misyar and Nikah Mut’ah, where the holy clerics become the pimps

    Misyar Marriage in practice

    Islamic lawyers argue that it fits the needs of a conservative society which punishes “zina” (fornication) and other sexual relationships which are established outside a marriage contract. Islamic lawyers explain that it can be ideal for young people whose resources are too limited to settle down in a separate home; for divorcees, widows or widowers, who have their own residence and their own financial resources but cannot, or do not want to marry again according to the usual formula; and for slightly elder people who have not tasted the joys of marriage.

    The practice of Misyar marriage is sometimes different from the reasons Islamic lawyers give for this institution.

    Wealthy Kuwaiti and Saudi men sometimes enter into a Misyar marriage while on vacation, this allows them to have sexual relations with another woman without committing the sin of zina, they usually divorce the women once their holiday is over, although if this is understood by both parties this would constitute a fixed time period, effectively making such a marriage invalid in Sunni law, and more akin to the Shia Mut’ah marriage. They travel to poorer countries, such as Egypt or Syria, and meet middlemen who arrange a marriage for them. Some men arrange Misyar marriages online. These men pay the girl’s family some money; families agree to the arrangement because of poverty, hope their girl will have fun, and visit places that she can only dream about. They also hope for gifts at the end of the marriage that the rich husband will give her. Sometimes the husband keeps the wife for his next vacation and sends her money in the interim period. Many wives hope to win the love of their husbands so that they may live with them permanently. Since the wife knows that she will most likely be divorced, most misyar wives do their best to prevent pregnancy.

    So Chucky, I have shown that prostitution is part and parcel of islam, can you show us where Hinduism ordains prostitution.

    I think your sisters pure javanese/Hindu/indian genetic and DNA was contaminated with the onslaught of filthy islamic practices based on the koran

    Qur’an 4:24. (The holy licence to prostitution)

    “And all married women except those whom your right hands possess (this is) God’s ordinance to you, and lawful for you are (all women) besides those, provided that you seek (them) with your property, taking (them) in marriage not committing fornication. Then as to those whom you profit by, give them their dowries as appointed; and there is no blame on you about what you mutually agree after what is appointed; surely God is Knowing, Wise.”

    Well Chucky

    For your Imformation, your barrage of insults, and sneaky comments about India and Hinduism are wasted, because I am niether Indian or Hindu. In fact I am Athiest and European/Amerikan with Jewish blood , and I strongly oppose all religions, especially Islam, which threatens to kill the likes of me.

    Well Chucky

    Despite your arrogance you show here on this forum, you are just another Muslim Dick without Balls.

    Well Chucky

    You strut round the forum with a superior complex, yet what have you got to be superior about. I tell you nothing. The best you Muslims have done here is inventing the Bijac, using three wheels which is an imported innovation. The only thing you Muslims have done is spill a lot of blood, and destroy many noble cultures, in the name of your satanic god

    Well Chucky

    I post pretty long comments here that contain quite a lot of facts concerning the dark side of islam, facts that you cannot refute. I shall say that I am not commenting your you alone, so how I compose my comments is entirely up to me, and it is for the Admin of this forum to decide whether they are published or not.

  12. Shiva says:

    Chucky this is 4U

    here we go

  13. Sputjam says:

    Some koranic translations for those who seek guidance:-

    5:32 It is because of this that We have decreed for the Children of Israel: “Anyone who kills a person who has not committed murder, or who has not committed corruption in the land; then it is as if he has killed all the people! And whoever spares a life, then it is as if he has given life to all the people.” Our messengers had come to them with clarification, but many of them are, after this, still corrupting on the Earth.
    (That last statement can be used for the case of Mohamed, whom, after his death, the Arabs devoted back to their pagan ways.)

    5:33 The recompense of those who fight God and His messenger, and seek to make corruption in the land, is that they will be killed or crucified or that their hands and feet be cut off from alternate sides or that they be banished from the land; that is a disgrace for them in this world and in the Hereafter they will have a great retribution.

    5:34 Except for those who repent before you overpower them, then know that God is Forgiving, Merciful.

    and maybe thiis is what the koranic passage meant :-

    8:38 Say to the rejecters: “If they cease, then what has passed before will be forgiven to them, and if they return to it, then the example of the previous generations has already been given.”
    8:39 And confront them all until there is no more oppression, and so that the entire system is God’s. But if they cease, then God is watcher over what they do.
    8:40 And if they turn away, then know that God is your Patron. What an excellent Patron, and what an excellent Victor.

    Prophet Mohamed couldn’t have said this if the Koran said the following :-

    Bukhari:V4B52N260
    “The Prophet said, ‘If a Muslim discards his religion, kill him.'”

    Passage from the koran concerning faith :-

    2:256 There is no compulsion in the system(deen); the proper way has been made clear from the wrong way. Whoever rejects evil, and believes in God, then he has grasped the most solid branch that will never break. God is Hearer, Knower.
    (this proves again that the koran does not call the masses to a religion, but to beleieve in God and do good deeds.)

    Bukhari is an unknown entity. prophet Mohamed on the other hand, dare not add in or leave a single passage from the koran. therefore a book written by a man called bukhari cannot be equalled to the koran.

    And more koranic passages :-

    5:8 O you who believe, stand for God and be witnesses for justice, and let not the hatred towards a people make you avoid being just. Be just, for it is closer to righteousness, and be aware of God. God is expert over what you do.
    5:9 God has promised those who believe and do right that they will have forgiveness and a great reward.
    5:10 And those who reject and deny Our revelations, they are the dwellers of Hell.

  14. Ihaknt says:

    Religion is over-rated and man-made. Just be good people. Must be tough for most of yous.

  15. Shiva says:

    Sputjam Says:

    Some koranic translations for those who seek guidance:-

    Your translations are very misleading for those that seek guidance.

    You select a few verses that seem peaceful, yet you are overlooking the “Doctrines of Abrogation”

    The concept of “abrogation” in the Quran is that Allah chose to reveal ayat (singular ayah – means a sign or miracle, commonly a verse in the Quran) that supercede earlier ayat in the same Quran.

    The central ayahs that deals with abrogation is Surah 2:106: and Surah 16:101

    Qur’an 2:106
    None of Our revelations do We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, but We substitute something better or similar: Knowest thou not that Allah Hath power over all things

    Qur’an 16:101
    “When We substitute one revelation for another, “” and Allah knows best what He reveals (in stages), “” they say, ‘Thou art but a forger’: but most of them understand not.”

    There is wide disagreement among Muslim theologians as to precisely which verses have been abrogated and which others have replaced them.

    Still, it has been a mainstream notion in Islamic theology that if a verse revealed at Mecca contradicts another revealed later at Medina, the Medinan verse takes precedence.

    Many traditional Islamic theologians and Qur’an commentators argue that violent material, such as sura 9, abrogates more relatively tolerant surahs

    Qur’an:9:5
    “Fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, harass them, lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war.”

    When discussing why Muhammad didn’t begin sura 9 with the customary invocation bismillah ar-rahman ar-rahim, “in the name of Allah, the compassionate, the merciful,” an intriguing answer comes from a Qur’an commentary that is still highly valued today in the Islamic world, Tafsir al-Jalalayn.

    This is a fifteenth-century work by the renowned imams Jalal al-Din Muhammad ibn Ahmad al-Mahalli (1389-1459) and Jalal al-Din ‘Abd al-Rahman ibn Abi Bakr al-Suyuti (1445-1505). The invocation, suggests this tafsir, “is security, and [Sura 9] was sent down when security was removed by the sword.”

    Security’s removal by the sword meant specifically the end of many treaties the Muslims had made with non-Muslims.

    Another still-influential Qur’an commentator, Ibn Kathir (1301-1372) quotes an earlier authority, Ad-Dahhak bin Muzahim, to establish that the Verse of the Sword, sura 9:5 (“slay the unbelievers wherever you find them”) “abrogated every agreement of peace between the Prophet and any idolater, every treaty, and every term.”

    He adds from another authority: “No idolater had any more treaty or promise of safety ever since Surah Bara’ah was revealed.” And yet another early commentator, Ibn Juzayy (d. 1340) agrees that one of this verse’s functions is “abrogating every peace treaty in the Qur’an.”

    This idea is crucial as a guide to the relationship of the Qur’an’s peaceful passages to its violent ones. Suras 16, 29, 52, 73, and 109 “” the sources of many of the Qur’an’s verses of peace and tolerance “” are all Meccan. That means that many Muslims, guided by commentators such as those above and the imams who teach from them, see these suras only in light of what was revealed later in Medina.

    Being the last or next-to-last sura revealed, sura 9 is generally understood as being the Qur’an’s last word on jihad, and all the rest of the book “” including the “tolerance verses” “” must be read in its light.

    Qur’an 4:142
    “Surely the hypocrites strive to deceive Allah. He shall retaliate by deceiving them.”

    Qur’an 13:27
    “Say, ‘God leads whosoever He wills astray.'”

    For further guidance for those that maybe confused about Abrogation and the Medina Verses/Mecca Verses. maybe this will be a little help

    (at-taubah 9:5):
    Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then leave their way free. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

    This verse, according to many Muslim commentators, abrogates a famous verse often used by Muslims when interacting with non-Muslims,

    Qur’an 2:256:
    There is no compulsion in religion (la ikraha fi d-dini). The right direction is henceforth distinct from error. And he who rejecteth false deities and believeth in Allah hath grasped a firm handhold which will never break. Allah is Hearer, Knower.

    Muslims like to use this verse to show that Islam does not force people into accepting Islam. It should be noted, however, that this verse is a Meccan verse, where Muhammad was at a disadvantage, having to deal with the strong pagan at Mecca.

    The tone of the Qur’anic verses changed shortly after he moved to Medinah.

    The Sword Verse is a Medinan verse, and it allows the Muslims to compel non-Muslims to accept Islam. However, it is also abrograted by the condition in the verse: “But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then leave their way free.”

  16. Cukurungan says:

    Shiva:

    So Chucky, I have shown that prostitution is part and parcel of islam, can you show us where Hinduism ordains prostitution.
    I think your sisters pure javanese/Hindu/indian genetic and DNA was contaminated with the onslaught of filthy islamic practices based on the koran
    Qur’an 4:24. (The holy licence to prostitution)
    “And all married women except those whom your right hands possess (this is) God’s ordinance to you, and lawful for you are (all women) besides those, provided that you seek (them) with your property, taking (them) in marriage not committing fornication. Then as to those whom you profit by, give them their dowries as appointed; and there is no blame on you about what you mutually agree after what is appointed; surely God is Knowing, Wise.”

    Cukurungan :

    What is the better proved where in India a girls gets raped every second and USA among highest raped rate in the world’s.
    Statistics talked itsef that rates of rape, abortion, divorce, HIV infection and teenage pregnancy in the moslem majority country are much lower than in the non-moslem majority country. Walking and Talking FACTS
    are much better evidence than a paper only , it proved again and again that the islam is the best guidance teaching of the morality.

    Shiva:
    Well Chucky
    For your Imformation, your barrage of insults, and sneaky comments about India and Hinduism are wasted, because I am niether Indian or Hindu. In fact I am Athiest and European/Amerikan with Jewish blood , and I strongly oppose all religions, especially Islam, which threatens to kill the likes of me.

    Cukurungan:

    Sorry Dudes if my style in teaching you, it is too hard and make you shame becomes yourself. No problems you can be Jewish but once day you might claim yourself as a moslem who know.
    Btw, it make no any different, dudes either you’re sattan or devils my duties just to show you the straight pad or the way to the immortal happiness. Don’t exaggerated the matters and I didn’t insult anyone what I wrote in my post just only copy and paste the facts written in the internet.

    Don’t be afraid dudes I will keep my hand and sword from the contamination of un-worthy blood like your blood and I prefer to use my knife to chopp-off head of sheep.

    Shiva:
    Well Chucky
    You strut round the forum with a superior complex, yet what have you got to be superior about. I tell you nothing. The best you Muslims have done here is inventing the Bijac, using three wheels which is an imported innovation. The only thing you Muslims have done is spill a lot of blood, and destroy many noble cultures, in the name of your satanic god.

    Cukurungan:

    You’re almost correct a moslem don’t need invent anything but do the goods deeds only and the rest let God take the course for us, for the good moslem God already given them lot of oil so they can buy anything they need and for the bad moslem God sent to them the tsunami to reduce their sins.

    Our God isn’t Sattan but He is creator of the universe and anything in it and He is the most arrogance because only Him has the rights to be arrogance.

    Shiva :
    Well Chucky
    I post pretty long comments here that contain quite a lot of facts concerning the dark side of islam, facts that you cannot refute. I shall say that I am not commenting your you alone, so how I compose my comments is entirely up to me, and it is for the Admin of this forum to decide whether they are published or not.

    Cukurungan:
    There is no darkside in Quran and Islam, our holly books is open and it can access by anyone either for the good or the bad intention we don’t afraid anything because God Himself always protect and guard the purity of Quran ? God already challenge mandkind to make the equal books like Quran but until more than 1400 latter until today nobody able do that. Your comments just a bit fun for the islam hater who can do nothing except crying while watching un-stoppable growing of the Islam in which already reach more than 1.3 billion and made Islam became the fastest growing religion in this earth. I don’t need to waste my times to refute your comments because no matters how you hate and made comments about the Islam but the islam has been/ will/ always prevail until a day when sunrise come from the west.

    Regard,
    Magician with ability to transform an Indian becomes Jewish

  17. Sputjam says:

    Dear shiva,
    you mentioned that –

    Still, it has been a mainstream notion in Islamic theology that if a verse revealed at Mecca contradicts another revealed later at Medina, the Medinan verse takes precedence.

    The statement above is incorrect. There should not be any contradiction in the koran. If there is one, then you must check in detail why there is one. could it be due to wrong translations, or could the verse be added in by someone with ill intentions etc.

    When you read the koran, you found many volent verses.
    Me, on the other hand, found that the messages really meant for humans to refrain from being involved in religion whatsoever, but to serve God by doing good deeds in this world and the life in the next world will depends on our deeds only, not the number of worship rituals, nor the amount of money you contribute for mosques, not the number of filial children you may have.

  18. Shiva says:

    Chucky

    What is the better proved where in India a girls gets raped every second and USA among highest raped rate in the world’s.

    Yes and the punishment is very severe for those that get caught in the USA

    And the stastitics do not show what group the rapists belong to in India

    But here is an old report on abduction-rapes of women by men (sweetly called “outrages”) were:

    The statistics showed that the majority of Muslim and Hindu kidnappers preferred women from their own religious communities.

    Hindu on Hindu: 1,260
    Hindu on Muslim: 30
    Muslim on Hindu: 686
    Muslim on Muslim: 3,299

    There is a very logical reason why the figures are low in Islamic states

    Traditional Islamic law, which is still very much in force in Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Iran, Sudan, most (if not all) of post-Taliban Afghanistan, and elsewhere, completely disregards the testimony of women in cases of a sexual nature.

    Aside from physical evidence, the only way to establish rape is by the testimony of four male witnesses (who, by the way, must be Muslims in good standing) who actually saw the act itself.

    Without these witnesses and a confession from the accused rapist, the victim will stand condemned by her very accusation: she wasn’t raped, so she must be guilty of zina.

    According to Sisters in Islam, a Malaysian advocacy group for Muslim women, in Pakistan “three out of four women in prison . . . are rape victims.”

    Warning very graphic

    Indonesia Rape part 1

    Indonesia Rape part 2

    Al-Khudri reported:
    We took excellent women captives, and we wanted to do ‘azl'(rape by coitus interruptus) with them.
    We asked Allah’s Messenger, and he encouraged us to rape without “azl

    Subject: Jakarta Situation

    After I fainted 7 people raped me. At that time my father still couldn’t see well after being hit with a piece of wood. They raped me repeatedly. Then my father said “Vivian, Fenny is gone…” I was confused and cried out, “Why Dad?” My father couldn’t answer. He told me to rest and went out of the room. I cried over and over again, feeling that my life had no meaning any more.

    A week ago, after I was released from the hospital I was told everything that had happened. When Fenny was raped she kept on fighting and so she was repeatedly slapped by her rapists. The last time she fought Fenny spitted on one of them. Offended, the man grabbed a knife and stabbed Fenny’s stomach over and over again. Finally she died with blood over her whole body.

    The full story

    As for the rest of your comment, you prove to be a master of dillusion, but keep up the good work, as you are showing us the true Islam

  19. Shiva says:

    Sputjam Says:

    The statement above is incorrect. There should not be any contradiction in the koran.

    You are naïve, if not absurd, also you seem to have very little knowledge of Islam. You uninformed ecumenical zeal in search of a fantasy Islam yet to be created, does not excuse you from making intellectual rosy coloured bullsh*t

    Naïve because the Koran’s “verses of peace”, frequently cited by both Muslim and non-Muslim apologists, most notably verse 2:256,

    “There is no compulsion in religion”, were all abrogated by the so-called verses of the sword.

    These abrogating verses of the sword recommend beheading or otherwise murdering and mutilating non-Muslims, and Muslim apostates.
    According to classical Muslim Koranic commentators verse 9:5 (perhaps the most infamous verse of the sword), “Slay the idolators wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush”¦”, for example, cancels 124 verses that promote patience and toleration.

    If you re-read my post you will notice that my imformation comes from traditional Islamic theologians, renowned imams and influential Qur’an commentators, so are you that qualified to say they are wrong

    May-be you should read the whole Koran, instead of piking out the rosy parts that fit your views

    The sacralized Islamic sources indicate that as the Muslim prophet Muhammad accrued political and military power, he evolved from a proselytizer and persuader, to a warrior and dictatorial legislator. Thus the sword and other similar Koranic verses””as per the linkage between Muhammad’s biography and the Koranic narrative””capture the Muslim prophet at his most dogmatic, belligerent, and intolerant.

    Muslims are enjoined to fight and murder nonbelievers””woe unto those who shirk these campaigns””but those who are killed fighting for the one true religion, i.e., Islam, will be rewarded amply in the afterlife. A sampling of such verses, which established these eternal injunctions, are included below:

    47:4: “Now when ye meet in battle those who disbelieve, then it is smiting of the necks until, when ye have routed them, then making fast of bonds”

    9:29: “Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Messenger have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection.”

    4:76: “Those who believe fight in the way of Allah, and those who disbelieve fight in the way of the Shaitan. Fight therefore against the friends of the Shaitan; surely the strategy of the Shaitan is weak.”

    The doctrine of abrogation, necessitated by the many contradictions which abound in the Koran, originates as putatively taught by Muhammad, himself, at verse 2:106:
    “Whatever communications We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, We bring one better than it or like it. Do you not know that Allah has power over all things?” .
    This verse, in combination with verses* 16:101, 22:52, and 87:6, was elaborated into a formal system of abrogation (naskh in Arabic) by the greatest classical Muslim Koranic scholars and jurists, which entailed
    “¦the suppression of a ruling without the suppression of the wording. That is to say, the earlier ruling is still to be found in the Koran, and is still to this day recited in worship, but it no longer has any legal force

  20. Ihaknt says:

    Shiva, you are wasting your time trying to educate a person who lives in a cave and is blinded by self-righteousness and superiority. No matter what you say or facts you have, he sees what he wants to see. He thinks Islam is the best and the rest is wrong. Which is totally arrogant to look at it that way. No one is free from fault or wrong doings. See, without religion, there wouldnt be any of this BS.

  21. Sputjam says:

    what are your intentions shiva?

  22. Shiva says:

    Ihaknt Says:

    Shiva, you are wasting your time trying to educate a person who lives in a cave and is blinded by self-righteousness and superiority.

    I am not trying to educate Chuchy or Acne, I am giving some facts which just happen to be true, Truths that most Muslims dont like to hear, and as for debating, they have shown how incompetent they are.

    I am try to pass on some of what I have learnt about Islam, and I hope it is useful for those that read my comments with an open mind.

    No matter what you say or facts you have, he sees what he wants to see. He thinks Islam is the best and the rest is wrong.

    Most Muslims are the same, they are breast fed islam, and do not nothing else, In fact they do not know much about Islam either as you may have noticed.

    He thinks Islam is the best and the rest is wrong. Which is totally arrogant to look at it that way.

    He does not think, that is beyond him, he has been programmed, islam is a sympton of corroded brain.

    Ignorance breeds arrogance

    No one is free from fault or wrong doings.

    That is very true, but that is not the case in Islam,where theft, rape, Torture, murder and terror in the name of Allah is a virtue

    See, without religion, there wouldnt be any of this BS.

    As an athiest I can agree with you 100%

    Unfortunately there’s some confusion over who the One True God actually is. Christians believe one thing, and the Jewish faith another, and Muslims are so convinced that their god is supreme,that they are prepared to kill you if you think other wise

    It seems to humble me that Christians, Jews, Muslims, Protestants, Catholics, and Seventh-Day Jehovah’s Mormons all devoutly worship the same Supreme Being.

    But the devil is in the details and, apart from confessing their devotion to the One True God, they can’t agree on anything . Which is very sad as this has caused a lot of unnecessary pain and suffering.

    I try to respect everyone’s beliefs with the exception of Islam, as I cannot respept a religion whose founder could have sex with a nine year old child.

    I don’t want to offend anyone in any way, but is sad that some people (Muslims) get offended when faced with the truth, so the blame does not rest in my corner.

    I would also like to say this. Whether in business or religion, monopolies can be a very bad thing. Monotheism seems to bring out the worst in some people.

    Polytheism, with its acceptance of many Gods and multiple beliefs, is not only more friendly and more fun, it’s safer too.

    I don’t pretend to be expert on all religion, but I can certainly point out in the unholy Koran showing that Islam is not a religion, but a manifestion of war

  23. Shiva says:

    Sputjam Says:

    what are your intentions shiva?

    TRUTH

  24. Tomaculum says:

    And what is “truth”?
    Which “truth”?
    Whose “truth”? Yours, Achmeds, mine, Sputjams, Jesus, Mohammeds, Buddhas, Ihankt, Acne, Muslim truth, Hindu truth, western truth, eastern truth, elephant truth, fly truth …. ?
    Which one?
    Do we know, that the truth is a truth? Don’t we just believe that our truth is the real truth?
    Isn’t “truth” only a way to go?
    …………..

  25. Aluang Anak Bayang says:

    Ha ha Shiva, you better stay around for a while.

    I have something to add from what I’ve read recently. And this is for Sputjam too if you still think the quran is divine.

    Middle eastern scientists believed that there are 360 bones in a human, contrary to what is widely agreed among top scientists (minus moslem scientists) that there are 307 to 309 bones (I think this is the figure as I left my magazine at my office).

    Why the moslem scientist came up with 360 bones is because the quran said so! They had an ingenious way to count up to 360, they include anything from tonsils to toe nails to make up for the shortcoming.

  26. Cukurungan says:

    Shiva :

    The statistics showed that the majority of Muslim and Hindu kidnappers preferred women from their own religious communities.
    Hindu on Hindu: 1,260
    Hindu on Muslim: 30
    Muslim on Hindu: 686
    Muslim on Muslim: 3,299

    Cukurungan :

    Another goods example of fabricated facts by Hindu India.

    Shiva:

    Subject: Jakarta Situation
    After I fainted 7 people raped me. At that time my father still couldn’t see well after being hit with a piece of wood. They raped me repeatedly. Then my father said “Vivian, Fenny is gone”¦” I was confused and cried out, “Why Dad?” My father couldn’t answer. He told me to rest and went out of the room. I cried over and over again, feeling that my life had no meaning any more.

    Cukurungan :
    Check below the glossy of Hindu Nepal and India morality
    Seema’s story.
    Seema had left the poverty of her home village to work in Kathmandu. She was barely twelve when a smooth- talking flesh trader lured her to Bombay with talk of a better job. She hoped to become a film star. Instead she was sold into a brothel..
    At first she resisted, screaming, crying and fighting off prospective customers, but the madam who ran the brothel would have none of it. She sent in a muscled toughie to hold the girl down while an old man raped her. The pain was so intense that Seema lost consciousness and had to be hospitalised for a week.
    After that it was back to the brothel where the other child prostitutes told her she could not win this battle.
    But Seema’s spirit was not broken. Nine months later she escaped for the brothel and boarded a train, hoping to eventually get back home. A soft-spoken lady promised help. She lured the young girl to Calcutta and sold her. Seema had only escaped from one brothel into another.
    Now Seema appears resigned to her fate. She hits the streets of central Calcutta as soon as it gets dark and stands near a lamp-post soliciting customers. Her parents in Nepal have no idea where their daughter is. She does not have the courage to tell them, and anyway, they probably think she is dead. It is better that way.

  27. Cukurungan says:

    Shiva :

    I don’t pretend to be expert on all religion, but I can certainly point out in the unholy Koran showing that Islam is not a religion, but a manifestion of war

    Cukurungan :

    I glad to hear it from you what you are going to do or dare to do against us.

  28. dewaratugedeanom says:

    @Ihkant

    Shiva, you are wasting your time trying to educate a person who lives in a cave and is blinded by self-righteousness and superiority. No matter what you say or facts you have, he sees what he wants to see.

    Your reaction is understandable. But maybe we should be grateful to Cukurungan. Were it not for his one-track minded fanaticism and stubbornness, we wouldn’t have at our disposal all the information Shiva has given.

    @Shiva

    Indonesia Rape part 1
    Indonesia Rape part 2

    I am speechless, but rest assured, not for long.

  29. Aluang Anak Bayang says:

    @Ihkant

    Shiva, you are wasting your time trying to educate a person who lives in a cave and is blinded by self-righteousness and superiority. No matter what you say or facts you have, he sees what he wants to see.

    In short, he is a moslem. 🙂

  30. Shiva says:

    Tomaculum Says:

    And what is “truth”?
    Which “truth”?

    A very good question

    And the only honest answer I can offer is ….

    I try and follow the teaching the of Shiva which point me in the direction of atheism,

    Summary of the teachings of Shiva

    Be kind. Be compassionate. Be honest. Be sincere. Be truthful. Be bold. Be pure. Be wise. Be virtuous. Enquire: ‘who am I’? Know thy-Self and be free.

    By trying to follow the above summary I believe the only out come leads to atheism, and to a much better society, where as Islamic teaching and the Koran are the exact opposite to the above.

    It is the above summary that inspired me to adopt Shiva as my Cyber name.

    Many people assume I am Indian because of this, due to the fact that people wrongly think that Shiva is only a “Auspicious” Hindu god; third member of the Hindu triad with Brahma and Vishnu. He is also known as Ardhanarishvara, “Androgynous Lord”, who is half-Shiva, half-female/half-shakti.

    Yet Siva, a Slavic goddess. Her name means “living, being, existing.” She is also known as Siwa, pronounced “sheeva” in modern Polish; she was worshipped in Poland, Czechoslavakia, East Germany.

    Also known as Russian Zhiva/Z’iva, Polabi Zhywie and Slovak Zivena. Even other forms of her name are Sivve, Shiwa, Sieba, Syeba, Siba and Dsiva.

    With regards to the etymology of her name, “some scholars associate the name with Dlugosz’s Zywye, others with the Indian SHIWA, [sic] god of life, still others with SIVA.

    Shiva is known to have many forms

    Something that Chucky is unaware of because of his islamic inspired racism makes him blind.

    So Tomaculum

    I try to follow the teachings of Shiva, which in my opinion lead to a healthy mind

    SO THE ANSWER IS

    THE TRUTH OF A HEALTHY MIND

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