Javanese Terrorists

Jun 26th, 2007, in News, by

The Javanese are more likely to become terrorists than other ethnic groups.

Professor Azyumardi Azra, a liberal Muslim intellectual and former rector of Universitas Islam Negeri (UIN; State Islamic University) in Jakarta, said on June 23rd how surprised he was that most terrorists in Indonesia were of Javanese origin, given the fact that the Javanese are often not known for their strictness in religion as much as people from Sumatra and Sulawesi are.

Azyumardi Azra
Azyumardi Azra.

With the rise of terrorist bombing campaigns in Indonesia since the first Bali bombings in 2002, through to the Kuningan Australian embassy attack, the Marriot Hotel bombing, and the innumerable attacks in Poso, Central Sulawesi over recent years, most had been committed by Javanese men, he said.

Ethnic boundaries of Java island
Ethnic boundaries of Java island. (Click for full size.)

Whether Amrozi and Imam Samudera, or the recently arrested Abu Dujana (Yusron Mahmudi/Ainul Bahri) and Abu Irsyad/Zarkarsih, most were Javanese, or at least culturally Javanese. Abu Dujana, although he was born in a Sundanese part of Java, Azyumardi Azra claimed had been raised in a Javanese environment, and had chosen to hide in a Javanese part of Java, Banyumas. Non-Javanese members of terror groups, were rare, he said. okezone


53 Comments on “Javanese Terrorists”

  1. Aluang Anak Bayang says:

    Cuk, the only flashes I get was from posing in front of cameras. Why are you getting traumatic flashes? You have an antiquated and petty-minded mentality. You are holding grievance over something that happened eons or ages ago. Be positive, be broad minded, we are in the present.

    We are now in the information age. The world (except the moslems world) is getting mature. 20 and 30 years ago, many people are still very superstitious and easily fooled. We know natural disasters are not from God. We know there is no virgins waiting for suicide bombers in heaven. Uttering illahi alaha won’t get you a place in high heaven if your heart is evil. Middle Eastern wars are none of our business, leave the Americans and the Middle Easterns alone. We are Asians and we are in a different category. We don’t have hooked nose like the Jews or the Arabs. You have to thank Allah that Javanese is still in charge of this country.

  2. dewaratugedeanom says:

    Whatever the animosity of the discussion between Shiva and Achmad Sudarsono, I think very interesting elements have been brought to our attention in this thread. Especially because the Indian or Hindu standpoint, which is after all also part of our cultural heritage, has not often been presented in this forum until now.
    As for Achmad Sudarsono’s preferred literary style, which I believe is called parody, I understand that it may act confusing at first sight for those who are relatively new to this blog. Hence the outrage it sometimes – I even think deliberately – provokes.
    As for Shiva, he (I suppose he is a man, Shiva being a male Hindu deity) seems a very well informed person who can certainly provide this forum with more instructive facts, figures and opinions from a different point of view than that of Jihad vs. Crusades.
    Thank you.

  3. Shiva says:

    dewaratugedeanom Says:

    As for Shiva, he (I suppose he is a man, Shiva being a male Hindu deity) seems a very well informed person who can certainly provide this forum with more instructive facts, figures and opinions from a different point of view than that of Jihad vs. Crusades

    Shiva is a Hindu Diety, but he/she can be found in other religions also,such as the old Slavic religion, where Siva/Shiva is the goddess of war

    Achmad Sudarsono Says:

    Worst corruptors in Indonesia all Muslims? What, you mean like the Indonesian Chinese-conglomerate owners in the late 1990s who are mostly Christian, Buddhist or Confucian?

    You like it short and sweet..

    1990,s Suharto Family
    2007 Bakri Family

    When did they convert away from Islam

    Granted, some of them have taken Muslim names, but who are they kidding?

    Who are you kidding.

    You are overlooking that various government policies banned Chinese language teaching, speaking, and publication. Established schools and colleges run by Chinese-Indonesian foundations were nationalized and their facilities seized without compensation and converted to state or pribumi-run schools such as Universitas Res Publica, which became Universitas Trisakti.

    A presidential directive forced Chinese Indonesian to abandon their Chinese names and adopt Indonesian names. Anti-Chinese sentiments increased among the pribumi Indonesians and anti-Chinese pogroms were frequent.

    In identity cards, all Chinese Indonesians were designated as “WNI” (Warga Negara Indonesia = Citizen of Indonesia), a euphemism for “ethnic Chinese” as opposed to just “Indonesian” for the pribumi Indonesians. This made it easy for government officials to extract bribes and side payments, and has been compared to Jews under Hitler being required to wear the Star of David badge on their chests. Ethnic Chinese must hold certificates of having rejected Chinese citizenship, despite being native-born and their family having lived in Indonesia for generations.

    I’m not blaming the “Cukong” for all of the woes, but in gross terms, pal, they’ve got the records.

    Got the records

    In Jakarta there is a river known as Kali Angke (“Red River” in Indonesian) which recalls the blood flowing into the river On October 9, 1740, the order was issued to search the houses of all the Chinese residents in Batavia. This soon degenerated into an all-out, three-day long massacre – with Chinese being massacred in their homes, and earlier captured Chinese being killed out of hand in prisons and hospitals.

    A preacher fanned the flames from the pulpit, declaring that the killing of Chinese was “God’s Will”, and the colonial government itself reportedly posted a bounty for decapitated Chinese heads. The number of victims in these three days is variously estimated at between five thousand and ten thousand.

    TODAY Until recently, the Angke River was a waterway polluted with garbage. Riverside residents lived in ramshackle huts along the banks with low ceilings and muddy floors. Because the Angke River is located in the lowlands

    A severe flood in January 2002 brought Tzu Chi volunteers to help residents of Kapuk Murua. Volunteers got rid of excess water in homes, helped clean up and sanitize homes, and even provided free medical service to residents. But the volunteers realized there was much more to be done.

    A garbage-filled river would inevitably cause disease, especially since the residents had no clean water to drink or use. And with every home built atop stilts along the river, the seasonal floods magnified the problems.

    Su-Mei Liu, CEO of Tzu Chi’s Indonesia branch, said, “It would be the biggest blessing if residents there can stay healthy and have enough food to feed themselves.” After the 2002 floods, Tzu Chi volunteers could not bear to see these people living next to the river, so with the help of the Indonesian government, Kapuk Murua residents, Tzu Chi mobilized a large clean-up effort to rid the entire river of garbage. They also began building a Tzu Chi Great Love Village, which would include new, cleaner and safer homes.

    Architect Szu-Hang Hsu designed the Tzu Chi Great Love Village. Construction began in July 2002. A year later, with 1,100 units on five hectares [12.4 acres] of land, the Great Love Village was completed.

    There are 55 five-story buildings, each with gray walls and red roofs. Each floor has two units, and each unit covers an area of 36 square meters [388 square feet]. Each unit includes a living room, a kitchen, a bathroom, and two bedrooms. Each unit also has a window that facing out. The ventilation is good, and the environment is nice and clean.

    Ironical that it was Chinese/Buddist,s that improved the lives of the Muslim residents who lived in this area longside a river that was naned because of the chinese blood that flowed in it many years before.

    But we’re getting a bit sidetracked. I was really enjoying winding Shiva up with kindergarten-level tactics. In fact, it’s amazing how many people fall for it.

    kindergarten-level tactics,

    More like using kindergarten-level tactics to avoid facing the facts, This thread is suppossed to be dealing with Javanese Muslim terrorism, not curruption, so who is side tracking

    The only curruption that is in context on this thread is how the beautiful Javanese culture and mind is being currupted by Islam, and issue very few here are willing to debate

    ——————————————————————–
    Cukurungan Says:

    What is your criteria called them terorist? Were those gentlemen killing innocent people more than what have been done by American, british, serbia leader, LTTE Leader, BJP leaders, Israel Leaders, Mao Zedong and Khmer Rough leaders? I don’t think so.

    Not one of the above leaders are committing/committed crimes that are ordained by a so called God.

    All the above leaders have been heavily condemmed is the west, one has even been taken to court, now if all these leaders happened to be Muslim, would they qualify to be saints alongside Mr AYZMAN, Habash, Rantizi or Osama

    With your sick logic, Amrozi and the other Javanese born Muslim bombers also qualify to be saints

    Seems to me that to qualify to be an Islamic Saint the you must have a lot of blood on your hands, regardless if it is infidel blood or Muslim blood

    Now the big question is how long will it be before the Indonesian Taliban call for the destuction of Borobudur

  4. Shiva says:

    Achmad Sudarsono Says:

    Granted, some of them have taken Muslim names, but who are they kidding

    This is a disgusting claim

    When Suharto came to power, Chinese Indonesians were increasingly discriminated against. With the justification of denouncing Chinese communism, Suharto not only closed communist-leaning parties, but also extended his reach toward all Chinese Indonesian parties and all aspects of Chinese Indonesian socio-culture. Soeharto effectively stripped Chinese Indonesians of power, banning them from politics and the military. He championed forced assimilation policy against Chinese Indonesians so that they would forget their ties to China. This policy brought forth many anti Chinese legislations. Soeharto passed and enacted very discriminatory citizenship laws, such as forcing Chinese Indonesians to re-register themselves as Indonesian citizens by renouncing their alleged Chinese citizenship regardless of the validity of the Indonesian citizenship they may already have. He denounced Chinese cultures and banned Chinese characters and literature. Allegedly, Soeharto was also the mastermind of the 1965 slaughter of millions of Chinese Indonesians, purportedly to eradicate the Communist Party of Indonesia (PKI).

    Group divisions among Cina Babas, Qiao Shengs, and Cina Totoks were blurred because Soeharto treated them alike. They were all forced to change their names to Indonesian sounding ones. This law is considered as one of the most humiliating ones to those in the Chinese community in Indonesia since by doing so, they are forced to lose their family name. Between 1965 and 1975, army and police officers were rampant in abusing Chinese Indonesians, such as openly robbing and raping their families. During this time, police could abuse any people using Chinese language. The only way to survive during this harsh period was by using bribes.

    In addition, those who were considered as heroes of Indonesian independence, such as Siauw Giok Tjhan and Liem Koen Hian, were either brutally executed, exiled, or jailed. Those who protested were silently murdered. None of them were bestowed national hero status. It effectively discouraged any Chinese Indonesian of the time to dedicate their lives for Indonesia.

    Since Chinese Indonesians were banned from all aspects of life except from the economy and industry, they concentrated their effort in those areas and became remarkably successful. It opened opportunities for government and military officers to levy bribes from Chinese Indonesian businessmen. Bribes and corruption soon became a norm. This widened the gap between them and pribumis. The pribumsi accused Chinese Indonesians with colluding with the government and thereby poisoning the entire political system. On the other hand, Chinese Indonesians felt that they were treated unfairly and the government was much more lenient toward the pribumis.

    As more and more discrimination and enmity accumulated, Chinese Indonesians increasingly identified themselves as a separate group and did not like to be referred to as “Indonesians”. Although younger generations did not as strictly follow traditions as the older ones did, they still felt they were different from Indonesians.

    During this era, younger generations adopted western culture more and more as they perceived it as being more superior. They were more aligned toward western countries such as the United States or the United Kingdom. The westernization became popular as many parents sent their children abroad to western countries.

    The Jakarta riot of 1998 targeted many Chinese Indonesians. The riot itself drew condemnations from Chinese speaking countries. Soeharto was allegedly the mastermind of this riot, but it misfired. Suffering from lootings and arsons, many Chinese Indonesians fled from Indonesia. Ironically, they found western countries were more accepting than Indonesia, their country of birth. Even after the riot subsided, many of them did not want to return.

    Now I have in this thread given facts that are historicaly proven correct yet, Achmad Sudarsono, cannot prove wrong, prefers to criticize me.

    In fact, I have proven that Sudarsono is a very decietful character, who is only following the islamic practice of deceit, which is condoned by the koran

    It is this type of mentality and deciet which will see the javanese culture destroyed like many other cultures that have been destroyed by monolethic religions, where-as Islam is the worst offender, due to Islam is based on the non acceptance of any other culture or belief

    No other religion prescribes the death of non-beleivers.

    Tabari IX:69 “Killing disbelievers is a small matter to us.”

    No other religion prescribes the spreading of the religion by war-fare.

    Qur’an:8:39 “So, fight them till all opposition ends and the only religion is Islam.”

    If I am wrong, then explain to me why speaking out against islam must be punished, and in many cases with death

    Bukhari:V4B52N270 “Allah’s Messenger said, ‘Who is ready to kill Ashraf? He has said injurious things about Allah and His Apostle.’ Maslama got up saying, ‘Would you like me to kill him?’ The Prophet proclaimed, ‘Yes.’ Maslama said, ‘Then allow me to lie so that I will be able to deceive him.’ Muhammad said, ‘You may do so.'”

    Ishaq:368 “Ka’b’s body was left prostrate [humbled in submission]. After his fall, all of the Nadir Jews were brought low. Sword in hand we cut him down. By Muhammad’s order we were sent secretly by night. Brother killing brother. We lured him to his death with guile [cunning or deviousness]. Traveling by night, bold as lions, we went into his home. We made him taste death with our deadly swords. We sought victory for the religion of the Prophet.”

    Ishaq:368 “We carried Ka’b’s head and brought it to Muhammad during the night. We saluted him as he stood praying and told him that we had slain Allah’s enemy. When he came out to us we cast Ashraf’s head before his feet. The Prophet praised Allah that the poet had been assassinated and complimented us on the good work we had done in Allah’s Cause.'”

    Achmad Sudarsono you may be a good Muslim, but this makes you a lousy Javanese..

  5. Achmad Sudarsono says:

    Although I am a Muslim, let me take a prophet’s name in vain: Jesus Christ, Shiva, you can ramble on.

    So once again, I say: Blahdy Blah Blah. Can’t you stop rabbiting on and make a simple point in a few paragraphs so we can have a civilized discussion, instead of just hurling insults. (This is probably hard for you as your own state of mind – and body – particularly below the belt, is always soft).

    FYI: It’s 2007, not 1740 .

    FYI: Suharto & clan Abangan. Bakrie = (not Bakri, spelling, sunshine, spelling) fake Muslim. The conglomerates have ripped off the most money in the last 10 years.

    FYI: There’s no point in your verbal diarrhea. People will just switch off. Yes, please, keep it short and sweet. You’re obviously short — (of endowment), but sweet: No Lah, Cannot Lah. Is not the Sweet One -Lah !

  6. Aluang Anak Bayang says:

    gee, it took me an hour to read this thread’s postings.

    Heck Shiva, our dear moslem broher Cuk can easily refute all your incriminations against Islam. Just give him some time.

    I am also wondering where Mas Khafi, our polite moslem bro, is. I hope he is not around Banyumas last month as he went awol from IM at around the same time.

  7. dewaratugedeanom says:

    @Shiva. Thanks for the information.

    Interesting developments in this blog. Revealing as well.

  8. Cukurungan says:

    Dear Shiva:

    Let get simple what you wanted to say here Hinduism is better than Islam?
    My opinion, Hinduism is the most corrupt and heresy religion in the earth. They worship to cow, rat and snake and its dogma gives so many privileges to the high caste but impose too many obligations to the low caste. Otherwise, billion Indian people never became subject bullying by only the handful Islam Moguls and British people for more than 400 years. India get independent just only Gifts from the brittish queen because of the crying of Great Gandhi.

    Yes today, India has been becoming so called the new economic power with so many high quality scientists but this is only for the high society who has been living in the sky while the low caste is still living in the trench.

    Yes, Indonesia has many poor people but their condition is much better than their brother in India especially who live in Mumbai and other India big cities where we can buy a fresh liver only about 3 million IDR from the poor Indian. Don’t tell us, it is not the case because my own families just few years a go bought the liver from the poor teenage India and it was done under fully blessing of the high caste India.

    The India is not more and not less than the Big Living Museum. The big question is not if but when Maoist take over India like what happened in Nepal (exotic Hindu Kingdom theirs royal families killing each other by themself). Because the Hindusm promoted by BJP proven the example of the failed society over hundred years.

    Shiva:
    Not one of the above leaders are committing/committed crimes that are ordained by a so called God. All the above leaders have been heavily condemmed is the west, one has even been taken to court, now if all these leaders happened to be Muslim, would they qualify to be saints alongside Mr AYZMAN, Habash, Rantizi or Osama

    Cukurungan:
    Saddam Husain already hanged but Bush/Blair/ Howard/Sharon are still the respectful leader.
    Of course they committed crime were not ordained by God because they don’t worship to God but they worship something else beyond the God it can be Gold, wealth, their racist, their economy or for the oil and they were committing crime ordained by respectively their version of GOD so they don’t deserve in the better position than Mr AYZMAN, Habash, Rantizi or Osama.

    Shiva :
    With your sick logic, Amrozi and the other Javanese born Muslim bombers also qualify to be saints Seems to me that to qualify to be an Islamic Saint the you must have a lot of blood on your hands, regardless if it is infidel blood or Muslim blood

    Cukurungan:
    I was not saying so but the gentlemen you mentioned as terrorist were a clean as the innocent baby compared with the crime have been committed by I mentioned leaders.

    Shiva :
    In Jakarta there is a river known as Kali Angke (“Red River” in Indonesian) which recalls the blood flowing into the river On October 9, 1740, the order was issued to search the houses of all the Chinese residents in Batavia. This soon degenerated into an all-out, three-day long massacre – with Chinese being massacred in their homes, and earlier captured Chinese being killed out of hand in prisons and hospitals.

    Cukurungan:
    What is your point quoted the historic Chinese massacre, did you try to say that we Javanese People is a very good people compared with the Dutch, beside in 1998 the bad Cukong already stolen our money we did not launch Chinese genocide but the only handful of our poor brother wanted to try the taste of the wealth and Chinese ladies while during normal situation they could not afford do that.

  9. Shiva says:

    Achmad Sudarsono Says:

    Although I am a Muslim, let me take a prophet’s name in vain: Jesus Christ, Shiva, you can ramble on.

    Very obvious you are a Muslim and not Javanese, the way you claim that Jesus was a prophet, and not the Son of God, doing the Dawa of the false prophet Mohammed.

    So once again, I say: Blahdy Blah Blah. Can’t you stop rabbiting on and make a simple point in a few paragraphs so we can have a civilized discussion, instead of just hurling insults. (This is probably hard for you as your own state of mind – and body – particularly below the belt, is always soft).

    So the facts I have stated here are insults, oh you poor wuzzie, when you are faced the truth you cry foul,

    It’s 2007, not 1740 .

    Very true it is 2007, yet you seem to be very imbedded in the year 610:

    FYI: Suharto & clan Abangan. Bakrie = (not Bakri, spelling, sunshine, spelling) fake Muslim.

    Fake Muslim, ho ho thats is a new one, well they where very successful in following Mohammeds foot-steps in acquiring wealth regardless of the suffering they caused

    The conglomerates have ripped off the most money in the last 10 years.

    If that is the case, how about some examples.

    There’s no point in your verbal diarrhea. People will just switch off. Yes, please, keep it short and sweet. You’re obviously short “” (of endowment), but sweet: No Lah, Cannot Lah. Is not the Sweet One -Lah !

    So once again, I say: Blahdy Blah Blah. Can’t you stop rabbiting on and make a simple point in a few paragraphs so we can have a civilized discussion,

    I have given plenty here that can be discussed, yet you have chosen to criticize me instead, This can be expected, where the only way Muslims can discuss is by burying their heads in the sand or with insults and violence.

    My advice is if you want to prove I am “short” try and rebuke any of the claims I make here, which I doubt you can, as up until now your debating skills expose you to being clown.

    ———————————————————————
    Cukurungan Says:

    Let get simple what you wanted to say here Hinduism is better than Islam?

    Yes.

    My opinion, Hinduism is the most corrupt and heresy religion in the earth. They worship to cow, rat and snake and its dogma gives so many privileges to the high caste but impose too many obligations to the low caste.

    Firstly say, that I do not follow any religion.

    The point I have been trying to make is Islam is the only religion that promotes/condomes murder, rape,stealing,deciet and war-fare. Now in your opinion you think that Hinduism is the most corrupt religion. A fair enough, now can you show us any scriptures that support your claim.

    Don’t tell us, it is not the case because my own families just few years a go bought the liver from the poor teenage India and it was done under fully blessing of the high caste India.

    Was it a Muslim liver (halal) or a Hindu (Harum). Either way I find it disgusting that you admit that your familty stooped that low to support a system you think is the most corrupt in the world, by purchasing a liver a poor teenager

    Because the Hindusm promoted by BJP proven the example of the failed society over hundred years.

    I can blame Islam for much of India,s woes and being as you call a failled state, We can only look at Bangladesh, Pakistan, and Afghanistan, all former Hindu, and part of the greater India, all failed states, all invaded by Islam.

    Saddam Husain already hanged but Bush/Blair/ Howard/Sharon are still the respectful leader.

    Bush/Blair/ Howard/Sharon are not inspired by holy scriptures such as Saddams crimes

    You seem to forget The al-Anfal Campaign for which he was tried and hanged by Iraqis

    The campaign takes its name from Surat Al-Anfal in the Qur’an, which was used as a code name by the former Iraqi Baathist regime for a series of military campaigns against the peshmerga rebels as well as the mostly Kurdish civilian population of rural Kurdistan.

    The Anfal campaign began in 1986 and lasted until 1989, and was headed by Ali Hasan al-Majid, a cousin of then Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein. The Anfal campaign included the use of ground offensives, aerial bombing, systematic destruction of settlements, mass deportation, concentration camps, firing squads, and chemical warfare.

    Al-Anfal is the eighth sura or chapter of the Koran which explains the triumph of 319 followers of the new Muslim faith over almost 900 pagans at the battle of Badr in 642 AD. Al Anfal literally means the spoils (of war) and was perhaps quite fitting for a military campaign of extermination and looting commanded by Chemical Ali. His orders informed jash (literally traitor in Kurdish) units that taking cattle, sheep, goats, money, weapons and even Kurdish women were hallal or legal in Islamic terms.The verse 12 of Al-Anfal sura of Koran reads:

    God revealed his will to the angels saying: I shall cast terror into the hearts of the infidels. Strike off their heads. Strike off the very tips of their fingers!

    What is your point quoted the historic Chinese massacre,

    My point is showing that the Javanese Muslims have a dark history, and just giving a few facts to support my claims, where as you and the other posters here make claims against the chinese, yet you cannot give any facts..

    beside in 1998 the bad Cukong already stolen our money we did not launch Chinese genocide but the only handful of our poor brother wanted to try the taste of the wealth and Chinese ladies while during normal situation they could not afford do that.

    In a normal situation honest people making bussiness or work hard to achieve to good things in life, they invest in education for their children, Muslims on the other hand put Allah as a priority, and become resentful when they are not able to compete in the modern world.

    And if you regard the skum who raped young girls and women as brothers, then this only comfirms to me that Islam is the worst thing that could happen to Java

    Java would be a much happier and prosperious place if people here would go back to their roots and be Javanese, instead of submitting to an imported death cult

  10. Shiva says:

    Aluang Anak Bayang Says:

    gee, it took me an hour to read this thread’s postings.

    Wow

    Heck Shiva, our dear moslem broher Cuk can easily refute all your incriminations against Islam. Just give him some time.

    Well he aint done so well until now except proving himself to be a Chinese, Hindu hating racist

    Any-way havent you a mind of your own, or are you another mindless zombie

  11. Shiva says:

    dewaratugedeanom Says:

    @Shiva. Thanks for the information.

    You are welcome

  12. Aluang Anak Bayang says:

    Any-way havent you a mind of your own, or are you another mindless zombie

    Ha, mindless zombie I am not, but I do not have all the on-hand info that you possess. Tell you what, Islam is on its way out. Last week, a taxi driver told me he and his group of friend have quit islam, because someone had been handling out phamplet on the true biography of Mohammad. He said he was digusted and vowed to spread the message across.

  13. Shiva says:

    Aluang Anak Bayang Says:

    Ha, mindless zombie I am not,

    Maybe I was to quick to jump to conclusions

    Tell you what, Islam is on its way out. Last week, a taxi driver told me he and his group of friend have quit islam, because someone had been handling out phamplet on the true biography of Mohammad.

    There will be more leaving Islam, as the truth is finally getting out.

    Many people here in Indonesia are Muslim, not because they beleive in Allah and Mohammed. They are Muslim so as to avoid trouble from the Islamic thugs.

    Most Indonesians are peaceful, and the Muslims take advantage of this, but many people are becoming resentful towards islam but are scared to speak out, but we will see more people like the taxi driver.

    The way the Koran is taught is by memorization.

    This leaves no room for asking questions. The Muslim is not encouraged to ask questions but only receives wisdom and learning from the teacher.

    Asking questions risks the student of being accused of blasphemy or unbelief,which is punishable by death

    And this is how Islam conceals the truth.

    Because the truth is Islams biggest and most feared enemy, and highlights how Islam is stuck in the 7th century.

  14. Janma says:

    quoting cuk;
    “If you flash back to human history just 65 years ago when the Christianity at age of 1900 years old they were killing each others with total death tolls only God know while today the islamic age is still less than 1500 years old and our reputation in regard to the humanity tragedy is much better than anybody else.”

    I don’t think it’s helpful to try to sort out whose sh*t stinks worse….. it’s all sh*t after all…. just degrees of offal.

  15. Shiva says:

    Janma Says:

    July 15th, 2007 at 11:51 am
    quoting cuk;

    “If you flash back to human history just 65 years ago when the Christianity at age of 1900 years old they were killing each others with total death tolls only God know while today the islamic age is still less than 1500 years old and our reputation in regard to the humanity tragedy is much better than anybody else.”

    Agreed that there was wholesale slaughter 65 years ago, but chucky is being very deceitful (islamic trend), he fails to mention the people of all religions where involved, also he overlooks the fact that Muslims joined up with the forces of evil (Nazi,s) and played a major role in the wholesale murder

    Chucky also seems to be a total liar, because Indonesia was invaded by the Japanese, who where not Christian.

    Another interesting fact that is not noted in the history books, the real liberators of Indonesia from Dutch rule where not Sukarno and Hatta, but the German war machine, and the Japanese.

    Most of the Dutch left Indonesia so as to fight the Germans in Holland, thus making room for the Japanese.

    Chuck, forgets that it was Amricans and Australians that pushed the Japanese out

    So as a reminder, 90% of todays conflicts involve the followers of the oh so peaceful Islam..

    Islam is so peaceful that Muslims are killing more Muslims that what the evil satanic infidel are killing

    Examples, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Sudan, Somalia, Iraq and lets not forget about the Muslim killing Muslim in Aceh

    How many Muslims where killed in the Bali bombing.

    YO many Javanese,such as Chuck hate the “white man”, yet in the last 63 years, Muslims have killed more J
    Javanese than what the “white man” has done.

    How many Indonesians have been murdered by Muslims, and still go free.

    Islam is a war machine that hides behind a religious facade, Islam is no less corrupt than than the worse corrupt goverments that strive for power and wealth.

    Interesting to find that it is Islamic states that top the most corrupt nations list.

    1 Chad
    2 Bangladesh
    3 Nigeria
    and Indonesia ranking 12

    Islam breeds corrupion which is a major cause of poverty as well as a barrier to overcoming it. The two scourges feed off each other, locking their populations in a cycle of misery.

  16. Cukurungan says:

    Shiva :
    Firstly say, that I do not follow any religion.

    Cukurungan:
    No wonder any human being always follow a religion whereas cow and snake don’t.

    Shiva:
    The point I have been trying to make is Islam is the only religion that promotes/condomes murder, rape,stealing,deciet and war-fare. Now in your opinion you think that Hinduism is the most corrupt religion. A fair enough, now can you show us any scriptures that support your claim.

    Cukurungan :
    Come on Shiva I am not so dumb to prove that a sh*t is bad but if you want to do that be patient dudes I have regular schedule dumping the sh*t in every morning.
    The scriptures just only a paper and there’s the walk and talk evidence that Hindu india proven itself in history of mandkind failed to build a prosper state for their citizens. In today real world’s, all the Hindusm kingdom already banckrupt or close to banckrupt while there’s still many the prosper Islamic Kingdom.
    Hindu India has succeeded develop farming system which is able to produce enough grains and beans to feed their countrymen but this foods self reliance has mean nothing to hundred million poor India because mostly those farming product wasted in the stocked pile foods warehouses rather distributed to theirs poor countrymen.

    I glad to hear it from you what the Hindu scriptures in which justify your poor brother starved to death while let the foods grains wasted in the stock pile.

    Shiva:
    Was it a Muslim liver (halal) or a Hindu (Harum). Either way I find it disgusting that you admit that your familty stooped that low to support a system you think is the most corrupt in the world, by purchasing a liver a poor teenager.

    Cukurungan:
    Sorry I mean my relative not my family, he is the farther in law of my big brother. He live in countryside I am sure he didn’t know anything but the Hindu gangs human organs trader offered those liver deal and those disgusting deal as you said won’t occurred without full blessing of the Hindu India because the liver transplant done in the Hindu soil with deal much benefiting to the Hindu traders rather to the poor organs owner.

    Shiva:
    I can blame Islam for much of India,s woes and being as you call a failled state, We can only look at Bangladesh, Pakistan, and Afghanistan, all former Hindu, and part of the greater India, all failed states, all invaded by Islam.

    Cukurungan:
    You might call Bangladesh and Pakistan failed stated but the statistics told itself that India has much percentage of the kid suffered severely malnutrious compared both the poor moslem majority country.

    Shiva :
    Bush/Blair/ Howard/Sharon are not inspired by holy scriptures such as Saddams crimes
    You seem to forget The al-Anfal Campaign for which he was tried and hanged by Iraqis

    Cukurungan:

    Many thank for your enlightment that the killing innocent people and committed criminal action are ok as long it is not inspired by the scriptures instructions.

    Shiva:
    My point is showing that the Javanese Muslims have a dark history, and just giving a few facts to support my claims, where as you and the other posters here make claims against the chinese, yet you cannot give any facts..

    Cukurungan :

    Those dark history of the chinese massacred was launched and ordered by Ducth and not by Javanese moslem kingdom so please direct your crying to the ducth not to us.

    Shiva :
    Java would be a much happier and prosperious place if people here would go back to their roots and be Javanese, instead of submitting to an imported death cult

    Cukurungan:

    The facts we are Indonesia moslem majority country is happier than the India Hindu trapped in theirs cult for more the century only becomes the symbol of miserable live in this world’s and beside India has preserved their antique lifestyle but hardly attract turis come there because India is no more than the most nasty and disgusting place in the world.

  17. Shiva says:

    Chucky
    No wonder any human being always follow a religion whereas cow and snake don’t.

    Just goes to show how religion Narrows the mind.

    Chucky
    Come on Shiva I am not so dumb to prove that a sh*t is bad but if you want to do that be patient dudes I have regular schedule dumping the sh*t in every morning.

    The fact is you cannot find any sciptures where Hinduism condones curruption.

    The amount of agricultural produce going waste in India every year due to lack of adequate post-harvest infrastructure is enough to feed all its hungry, according to government figures

    The wastage is occurring at various stages of handling after harvesting due to fragmented farming, provisions in the Agricultural Produce Marketing (Development and Regulation) Act, lack of adequate post-harvest infrastructure such as cold chain facilities, transportation, proper storage facilities

    So How is Hinduism to blame when the goverment is composed of people of all religions

    Chucky
    Sorry I mean my relative not my family, he is the farther in law of my big brother.

    Relative/family same thing.

    You are proving to be a hypocrit, as body mutilation is taboo, yet you dont seem to mind that relative/family has paid cash for a body part.

    Further-more how are you sure the gang or victim was not Muslim.

    Chucky
    You might call Bangladesh and Pakistan failed stated but the statistics told itself that India has much percentage of the kid suffered severely malnutrious compared both the poor moslem majority country.

    Bangladesh 48%
    Afghistan 48%
    India 46%
    Pakistan 38%
    Indonesia 28%

    28% Underfed children aint nothing to be proud of

    Chucky

    Many thank for your enlightment that the killing innocent people and committed criminal action are ok as long it is not inspired by the scriptures instructions.

    And where have I said that killing innocent children was not a crime.

    The only crime I can think of where Blair is concerned, is whem he and wanker Clinton was when the bombed the Serbs

    Since when has Sharon ordered Israeli, to board buses with bomb belts, or blowing up resturants.

    There would not be so many deaths if the brave Palistinians stopped hiding behaind women and children.

    The only crime bush is guilty of is his great Lie that Islam is a Religion of Peace

    Chucky

    Those dark history of the chinese massacred was launched and ordered by Ducth and not by Javanese moslem kingdom

    Yet the orders where passed on by the clerics calling from the mosques, and it was Muslims that took to the streets and done the bloody dirty work in the name of Allah

    Chucky

    The facts we are Indonesia moslem majority country is happier than the India Hindu trapped in theirs cult for more the century only becomes the symbol of miserable live in this world’s and beside India has preserved their antique lifestyle but hardly attract turis come there because India is no more than the most nasty and disgusting place in the world.

    Talking of the most nasty and disgusting place reminds me of Jakarta every time it rains and the whole city is swamped with garbage and sewerage.

  18. Ihaknt says:

    Religions are sh*t. They create trouble as people think only their belief is superior than others. As I said, religions are over-rated, be it Islam, Christianity, etc. I agree with Janma, doesnt matter whose sh*t stink more, it’s sh*t. It stinks. Cuk making fun of other people is not the right way to make people see that Islam is better. Instead it confirms the notion that Islam sux and boastful.

  19. Odawa says:

    Hi this is my first post:

    The article did not make any statements about race (genetics and biology etc), only ethnicity, which is contextual, dynamically changing and hybrid. Also note that the article only paraphrased Professor Azyumardi Azra, never did we learn of his exact quoted words. Well, perhaps it said:

    Non-Javanese members of terror groups, were rare, he said

    But still no “quotation” marks.

    Its not like he is saying most Javanese are members of terror groups. No, he just observed that out of a list of Indonesian terrorists, most were Javanese.

    So why are many of us getting upset? Perhaps because the observations seems so incomplete, vague, but suggestive of something wrong with Javanese society.

    You know what I think? I think we can’t really make huge generalizations about Javanese society, creating an ethnography, for example. Instead, we might learn something important by looking at the individual lives of these people who happened to become a member of a terror group.

    Oh and @ DoOs

    Those Javanese terrorists are not Javanese, they are Muslim.

    I would say they are not even Muslim. No way. I cross my arms and shake my head refusing them recognition as a Muslim, or as any spiritually-loving being. Come on everybody, let’s collectively shun them with our crossed arms and peripheral stares.

    I would like to share my experience of Javanese people.

    Some of the Javanese people I’ve met, such as all of my in-laws, deserve a compliment for amazing me with their willingness to recognize the pluralistic quality of their Javanese identity. My in-laws live around Jogja (Yogyakarta) near the Hindu temples of Prambanan and 1 hr south from the Buddhist Borobudur monument (I heard it’s not supposed to be called a temple). During Muslim Ramadan, the whole family gets together, both Muslim and Christian.

    Denny Crane said:

    The issue is more to economic driven rather than politic or religion for that matter.

    Ya, probably. I wish the article went more into depth.

    It certainly has provoked some interesting conversation though.

  20. Falcon says:

    well oh well, all the religions are imported to Java, so they are not original Javanese. The fact of the matter is everybody is saying I am right. Thats why the war in the middle eat will never end, the fight of two half brothers until the earth exploded or imploded and become a black hole. There are over 130 million Javanese and many are Hindus and Budhas, religions that existed before Islam was here. Lets not blame the javanese, Majority of them are nice people, but it is sad very few of them create a calimity for the country. Lets educate them all and we will have many wise Indonesian with common sense. It is the poor and the uneducated who are suffering. Indonesian should be proud of its originality which all have been forgotten.

  21. Falcon says:

    Oh well the fights continue. There are many Budhas and Hindus Javanesees, religions existed before Islam was here. Do we want Indonesia to become like middle east, the fights of two half brothers which will continue until the world exploded/Imploded and become a black hole. Unfortunately there are over 100 million javanese living on a small island with little resources, no jobs, insufficient education. So a few javanese have tainted the whole java and cause pain to the name “Indonesia”. It is now it hand of the javanese to take care of them

  22. Odinius says:

    Most Indonesian terrorists are javanese because the terrorist organizations set up shop on java. Hard to recruit someone in north sumatra if your school is in solo, eh?

    Also notice the non-javanese in a certain terrorist organization are malaysian, and hmm I wonder where the OTHER school was located.

  23. zekky says:

    Sadly, this doesn’t really surprise me.

    Javanese culture (wayang, jaipongan, Borobudur, women’s fancy hairdos) must be embarrassing for hard-line Muslims there…

    … imagine an Al-Qaeda supporter born with the name Dewa Arjuna!

    Seems to me like it’s an inferiority complex that forces Javanese ‘Orthodox’ Muslims to take a step further than the rest.

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