Pagan Rituals
May 24th, 2007, in News, by PatungIndonesian Muslims are urged to defend their practice of Islam against accusations of paganism.
The leader of the Clerics’ Council, Majelis Ulama Indonesia (MUI), for Nusa Tenggara Barat (NTB) province in the east of the country, Syaiful Muslim, warned Muslims, particularly those on the islands of Lombok and Sumbawa, to be on guard against beliefs brought by people from the middle east. Some forms of Arab/middle eastern Islamic rituals and theology were not appropriate for Indonesian culture and people, he said, and were far removed from the realities of the ordinary Indonesian person’s life, understanding, and experience.
Speaking in Mataram, Lombok on 19th May, Syaiful Muslim gave an example:
When you go into the Haram Mosque at Mecca you can see the way that middle eastern people pray, there are many different ways that they do it and Indonesian people often don’t understand the way that Arabs worship.
The traditions and practises of Muslims in NTB were firmly established, he said, and if middle eastern ideology were to enter the islands there would be a clash because local people were not ready for it. (In recent times in Lombok there have been a number of violent incidents caused by the unwanted presence of strict Saudi Arabian type sects such as Salafi and Wahabi groups.)
People who attempted to spread middle eastern understandings of Islam were often contemptuous of how local people practised the religion, (considering it pagan, probably, although Syaiful Muslim of course did not use this term), and they claimed that their way was correct and had to be followed.
People here often celebrate the birth of Muhammad and chant tales of Muhammad’s life, but in middle eastern countries like Saudi Arabia and Kuwait they don’t do that.
Minor customary rituals like reading prayers for the dead had already been blessed and ordered by Islamic organisations such as Nahdlatul Ulama (NU) and Muhammadiyah but middle eastern ideology always criticised such things, presumably as pagan rituals, or pagan-influenced rituals. antara
I implore people, especially the young and university students, to not blindly accept ideas from the middle east, but to study them properly so there are no conflicts later.
82 Comments on “Pagan Rituals”
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Janma says:
I think it’s a rock right? like a metorite that fell from the sky ages ago and was venerated by the pagan Arabs, like people were want to do in those times. it just went on from there. I think now it’s more of a unifying symbol for all Muslims and not neccessarily pagan in nature. it is kind of a paradox though, plus it’s a fantastic way to generate income for Saudi Arabia.
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Sputjam says:
What you see is maybe part of something else. Could it be a rock or part of a statue, whereby only the frontal lobe is exposed?
Don’t get conned people.
“…O people of the Scripture, let us come to a common agreement between us and between you; that 1) we do not serve except God, and 2) do not set up anything at all with Him, and 3) that none of us takes each other as patrons besides God….” (The Message 3:64)
Now after what is stated in the koran, why would anyone wants to serve a stone by circumnventing it. What can the stone do if I refuse to do the Haj?
Use your common sense –
2:92 And surely there was Moses who came to you – with the clear proofs – then you took to yourselves the calf – as of after him – and you became unjust.
Replace “Moses” with “Mohamed” and “calf” with “kaaba” and maybe you will get my idea.
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As I know it Muhammad was pretty fond of the kaaba wasn’t he? Correct me if I’m wrong.
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Achmad Sudarsono says:
Friend,
I think Pagan is a place in Burma. I think that’s what Mr. Patung was talking about in his last posting. Friend, including Janma and Sputjam, I call upon you with the utmost urgency to stay on track. Mr. Patung, works hard to bring us The Truth. It is up to us to uphold Islam and combat the ways of the Bule.
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WP says:
Mr. Patung, works hard to bring us The Truth
Achmad, Mr. Patung does not bring us The Truth. 😀 I will personally put him in Hell if he dares to claim so. 🙂
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Momma, I know the Truth when I hear it. Rock on.
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Peter says:
It’s nice to hear a prominent cleric say something like this in Indonesia. It would be a shame if Indonesia ever became an outpost of Saudi Arabia. Indonesian customs are just plain better than Saudi ones, anyway, in my opinion.
Why should Indonesians, with their own rich cultural heritage, want to convert to Wahabbism, a bland, repressive, desert dweller’s ideology? I think that the primacy of the Arabic language in Islam is allowing Saudi Arabia to exert undue influence over non-Arab parts of the Muslim world.
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This is a very wrong conception – bring evidence if you have on this.
As I know it Muhammad was pretty fond of the kaaba wasn’t he? Correct me if I’m wrong.
As for Mr Ahmad, I am staying on track. I inherited a belief that was corrupted, until I realised my folly. I have to thank Osama and 9/11. Otherwise, I would not have studied the koran at all and allow myself to be dictated by ulamaks.
99% of what Muslims does goes against the words in the koran. These includes 5 daily prayers, fasting, zakat, friday prayers, appointing imams, creating religious police, punishing apostates, spying, dress codes, stoning of adulterers, cutting thieves hands, lunar calender, building of mosques, immediate divorce if husband warrants, wills, food related matters (halal food), dogs, holding Arabs in high regards when koran says that they are hypocrites and on and on.
If you say that I am indeed wrong on any of the above example, then bring me your reference. My reference is the koran.
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Cukurungan says:
Janma,
So far I know, there wasn’t a foot print of our prophet in Ka’bah. Ka’bah is the house for one of Prophet Abraham Wife.
Our prophet repeated a ritual that immitate struggle of prophet Abraham family undergone testing of their faith on ka’bah what we called as “ritual haj”.
Ka’bah isn’t a meteoric stones just ordinary stones because already renovated so many times.
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Mr. Sputjam,
Why don’t you write this up.
And then submit it to major national newspapers. It’d be interesting to see the response of the Muhammadiyah, Nahdlatul Ulama, PKS, and, of course, the sensible, intelligent people in the Front Pembela Islam (FPI), to know they’ve been deviating from true Islam and teaching others to do likewise.
Might want to use ‘Sputjam’ rather than your real name, though.
Achmad.
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Another misconception –
So far I know, there wasn’t a foot print of our prophet in Ka’bah. Ka’bah is the house for one of Prophet Abraham Wife.
In the koran, there was no mention that abraham married two, but he was blessed with two children, after the wife said that it was not possible for her, at the age she was at, to concieve.
Our prophet repeated a ritual that immitate struggle of prophet Abraham family undergone testing of their faith on ka’bah what we called as “ritual haj”.
Muhamed was sent to people who never received God’s wisdom before. So how can abraham be in mecca among the Arabs. The truth is, Abraham was never in mecca, never did the haj, never build the kaaba.
Ka’bah isn’t a meteoric stones just ordinary stones because already renovated so many times.
A stone is just a stone, wheher meteoric or not. Apart from circumventing the black stone and kissing it?, the Arabs also run between two other stones several times, and throw stones at stones.
And to Achmad (you must be a sailor), the conqueror of latin, african and Indonesian ladies, may I quote confucious, another person who focused on doing good deeds and acts of righteousness. A journey of a thousand miles begins with one small step.
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Still, you’re mounting a frontal assault on many of the outward expressions of Islam. Don’t think alot of senior clerics who’ve built their careers on such outward expressions would be too pleased. Many violent Fatwas have been declared against people for much less.
Bombshell question: how much potential do you think there is for this kind of thinking to spread in Indonesia and the Muslim world. Maybe this is the way out of Islam’s malaise (not malays).
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Sputjam,
What is your proved that your Koran Bronx Version is more valid than the Harry Potter Story.
Let me confirmed, I won’t believe anything you say in regard to religion even you able to divert the sun from west to east.
Both of us believe in God existence but we don’t have a same perception about His command. In order to prove who is holding the truth. Will you take my challenge. Let us pray to God tonight before we sleep and ask God to take our most valuable belonging if one of us holding the wrong perception.
Regard,
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Question for you Cukurungan: If a Muslim went to the north pole, where days can be six months long, how many times a ‘day’ would they have to pray ? What about if a Muslim astronaut went to the Moon, or to Jupiter, where days last 12 years.
Would they only have to pray once every few years ? When the sun is at it’s zenith. What about if they were orbiting the Sun ? Of course, Islam is a religion which happily coincides with science and logic, so it’s fine to ask these questions, and I’m sure the answer is in the Koran.
Also, as God created the Universe, He wants us to understand it. Islam is about all of reality and the Universe, not just this tiny planet we live on which is so utterly insignificant compared to the vastness of Space, we don’t have numbers to describe it’s littleness.
Any thoughts ? I’m confused.
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Don’t be confused.
Moses and Jesus, despite their special superiority, were not able to convince their followers to God’s system.
God gave sustainance to the children of israel, and yet they defied, wanting more.
As for Jesus, he was there to confirm what was revealed by Moses, and yet mankind was not convinced.
Messages in the koran revealed what actually happened during the time of moses and Jesus.“Say the truth has come from God, and you shall follow the principle of Abraham, a sincere monotheist, he never associate anything with God.” (verse 3.95)
Indeed, My Lord has guided me in a straight path, the principle of abraham, the sincere. He never was an idol waorshipper” (verse 6:160)
Despite what was said by ulamaks concerning prophet Mohamed, saying that he was an illiterate :-
44:13 How is it that now they remember, while a clarifying messenger had come to them?
44:14 But they turned away from him and said: “Clearly educated, but crazy!”The koran said otherwise. prophet Mohamed was educated but was proclaimed “cazy” by the Arabs
Don’t trust the history writtem by pagan Arabs concerning the prophet. Disregard the hadith and sunnah, for it was written by men, not God.
Some of these web site may assist you :-
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Moonwalker says:
“a Muslim astronaut went to the Moon”?
All good Muslims knows even the Americans never walked on the moon! That’s impossible. That is no more than propaganda to discredite Islam.
Does anyone knows the hadith that sounds like “Islam is the truth as true as men will never walk on the moon”?
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Aluang Anak Bayang says:
Cuk,
Both of us believe in God existence but we don’t have a same perception about His command. In order to prove who is holding the truth. Will you take my challenge. Let us pray to God tonight before we sleep and ask God to take our most valuable belonging if one of us holding the wrong perception.
I certainly don’t think any God will take away your most beloved belonging if you are sincere in devotion, but innocently interpreted it wrongly.
Wake up, Cuk. The way you put it sound like naughty little kid.
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Ihaknt says:
Moonwalker, very funny. The hadith you read was probably written even before machinery was invented hence they said men would never walk on the moon. Or maybe they were refering to each other’s behind?
Whether they did walk on the moon or not, it’s very childish to think that they did it to discredit Islam. It was probably the last thing on their mind. Why are these people so sensitive and have ill thoughts of others if they do better than them?
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Saipul says:
Haha. Muslims think the moon landing was fake? Wow.
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Sputjam Says:
Some of these web site may assist you :-
http://www.free-minds.org and http://www.aididsafar.comCukurungan :
God clearly threatened whoever worship other than Him will be punished severely. Once you acknowledged that the koran interpretation in those web site is the correct one, you implied
that you worship to aididsafar like previous ahli kitab who worship their priest.The website below will release blood clogg in your brain if you have it:
www nafsu com
www mak_erot comregard,
Myths BusterMas Achmad,
Don’t be confused what is purpose of our live? For Moslem, it is quite clear “tidaklah Aku ciptakan Jin dan Manusia kecuali hanya untuk menyembahKu” we have to surrender all of our live and effort toward God order only and nothing else. Why Moslem have to go to Moon and Jupiter. God has not created those planets for living creature because simple reason, there is no water for basic live whereas the Moslem daily prayer ritual in north pole could be checked in pc software related to moslem daily prayer. I don’t think north pole also suitable place for the long term human habitation and those place belonging to the penguin, we don’t need to become a greedy bule who already slaughtered million indian and aborigin just only to take their land. Another Big Question. Is in the earth no more issue of poverty, misery and less fortunate people?
Don’t be deceived by US and western propaganda about their humanitarian mission to the outer space while in the earth still many people dying have no food.
Don’t be deceived by US mission to install weaponry system to protect the earth from meteoritic collision while in the earth still many people dying have no home and clothes.
What Moslem justification spending expense on this fatamorgana mission while there is a huge humanitarian concern in this earth un-touch. Remember life in this universe is only temporary one and once day it will be terminated by God and it will be changed with other type of a life when our mouth is locked while our hand, foot and skin can talk to God what we have been done in this past.Yes there is God order for us to make journey around the world to learn how in the past un-believer be punished by God.
But we don’t need to exaggerated until journey to Jupiter while in this earth, there’s a billion people suffered from Greedy Colonialism.Brother again don’t be confused with other pad because the straight pad toward immortal happiness is very crystal clear that is feed the poor, zakat, sholat, fasting, haji and keep other people from our mischief.
Regard,
Your Dirty Brother -
Pad? Sanitary pad?
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All good Muslims knows even the Americans never walked on the moon! That’s impossible. That is no more than propaganda to discredit Islam.
???????
Excuse me? Don’t you think you are overrating the worlds interest in discrediting Islam? The world barely has to do anything, the Muslims are already doing a great job of it themselves. -
Cukurungan,
Amen, Bro — you said it:
we don’t need to become a greedy bule who already slaughtered million indian and aborigin just only to take their land. Another Big Question. Is in the earth no more issue of poverty, misery and less fortunate people?
Don’t be deceived by US and western propaganda about their humanitarian mission to the outer space while in the earth still many people dying have no food.
Don’t be deceived by US mission to install weaponry system to protect the earth from meteoritic collision while in the earth still many people dying have no home and clothes.But Friend, I thought that you were supposed to pray when the sun was at particular points in the sky. It’s always dawn somewhere in the world, so someone’s always praying. But if Dawn only happens once every 12 years?
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R. Patterson says:
Islamics worship the pagan moon god of mecca whose name is hubal. Why Indonesians feel that they must worship a pagan god of an obscure Arabian tribe is beyond me. Anyone but a saudi/Arab is considered an inferior moslem or an ex-slave. Don’t the saudis – the royalty of islam have their private haj, then the Arabs- the aristocrats of islam next then the ex-slaves last? Indonesians should have more pride as they are NOT nothings as the saudis/Arabs see them. Regards, numbat.
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R Patterson :
Indonesians should have more pride as they are NOT nothings as the saudis/Arabs see them.
Cukurungan :
We Indonesia have pride because we were able to kick ash bule who intended to take our land.
Mas Achmad,
Our religion is an flexible one but it doesn’t mean to be abandoned.
If you want to decide matters that no direct refference in either Quran and Hadist you can decided by your own decision.
If your decision is wrong, God will give you 1 good reward but if your decision correct, God will give 3 good reward.Regard,
Your Dirty Brother -
Dear cuk,
God’s law is universal.
It can be applied on the moon, in the arctic, and anywhere else you can imagine.
If there is a flaw in the law, then it is not from God.
Hence, if you cannot do your daily prayers, fast in the arctic circle or on the moon, then, there is a doubt. If there is a doubt, then it cannot be from the creator.
Anyway, show me the verse in the koran that state you have to do five daily prayers and fast in ramadan.You have inherited a religion of your ancestors, and you are merely following their ways. I suggest you make your own research on faith, by studying the koran. Be like Abarham, his family were idol worshippers, but he refused to participate and served the one true God, by doing good deeds and acts of righteousness.
This assumption is mischeivious, just like the 72 virgins in heaven waiting for all those who blew themselves up –
If your decision is wrong, God will give you 1 good reward but if your decision correct, God will give 3 good reward.
Since when has God given you His authority for you to make such statement?
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You have mistaken brother Cuk, it is his obsession with anything Arabic. The notion of divinely Arabs that had been instilled into his head since childhood, seem to stay put. I have come across people with inferior complexity, and bro Cuk is a classic example.
Let’s say, if the Arabs decide to abandon their sunni branch, and embrace shiite, bro Cuk will be the first to join rank. Usually people with inferior complexity has not meet their idol in real life, but envisaged them in his dream. The only way we can knock him out of his deep slumber is to keep reminding that he is Indonesian, and introduce him to some real uncultured Arabs.
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Sputjam :
I suggest you make your own research on faith, by studying the
koran.
Be like Abarham, his family were idol worshippers, but he refused to participate and served the one true God,Cukurungan:
I already made my own research and I concluded by myself that aididsafa website belonging to the devil teaching and I will never worship him like you.Sputjam:
Since when has God given you His authority for you to make such statement?Cukurungan:
Since God given me a brain and hearts.There’s two kind God Law, the written God law as in Quran and un-written God law or so called Natural Law. Both laws is applicable anywhere in this world’s until the doomed day. But since north pole and jupiter should not become the place for human make habitation then Hijrah or Journey to that place should not become moslem priority.
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Hearts? Wow, you should donate 1 (or how many you have) of them then Cuk. Human only have 1. Mmm, alien you are.
Comment on “Pagan Rituals”.
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I do not have to elaborate more on this.
The haj is a massive pagan ritual. The largest such ritual in the world. Only the blind cannot see that it is pagan in nature.
What lies under the black shroud? Only the King of saudi knows, as he cleansed it every year. And another saudi family holds the key into the cubical structure.
Any wonder then why Muslims now faces God’s wrath, in starvation such as those in Somalia and Darfur, earthquakes in Iran, Indonesia, Pakistan, tsunamis and many more.
God is not testing the Muslims. It is punishement for being silly and abandoning His messages in the koran.