Shia Islam
Apr 22nd, 2007, in News, by PatungPressure on Shia Islamic groups in Indonesia is growing.
On 10th April in Sampang, Madura island, East Java, the home of a Shiite cleric was attacked by a mob of more than 100 people. The attackers carried sharp weapons and attempted to enter the cleric’s home but were prevented from doing so by police. No-one was hurt. metrotv
Still in East Java, but on the mainland, on 20th April thousands of people in the town of Bangil, near Pasuruan, marched to the office of the Attorney General’s department demanding the banning of organisations which promote Shia Islam in Indonesia.
The protestors, marching under the banner of a group called “Pemuda Ahlussunah Bangil”, or Bangil Sunnah Followers Youth, had previously gathered in the town square after Friday prayers, and then went about the town putting up banners condemning Shia Islam. On their passage through the town the marchers menacingly passed by the offices and homes of organisations and people thought to be most responsible for spreading Shia Islam in the Bangil area.
The leader of the protestors, Habib Umas Assegaf, said Shia Islam was heretical and responsible for such outrageous teachings and practises as contractual marriage. He said if Shia organisations were not banned he would bring even more people out onto the streets in future.
Asis Widarto of the Attorney General’s office in Bangil met with representatives of the mob and said his department would take into consideration the concerns of the protestors. He asked the Pemuda Ahlussunah Bangil to provide the Attorney General with evidence that Shia Islam was indeed heretical and thereafter such material would be studied by the comically named “Tim Pakem” (Pengawas Aliran Kepercayaan Masyarakat, Overseers of the Peoples’ Beliefs), this august body being composed of policemen, state lawyers, and members of the National Unity Board (Badan Kesatuan Bangsa (Bakesbang)). antara
Hasyim Muzadi of the Nahdlatul Ulama travelled to Bangil on 22nd April to attempt to calm the situation. He met with dozens of senior clerics in the town and attempted to explain the history of various Islamic sects, starting with Khawariji Islam, and moving onto the Shia.
Hasyim asked NU people in Bangil and Pasuruan to be rational, the differences between Sunni and Shia could not be solved by fighting. What was worse the NU was currently seeking to solve the Sunni vs Shia conflict in Iraq and the actions of NU members in Bangil were not helping. jawapos
The leader of the NU’s youth group in Bangil, GP Ansor, Mr Fahrur Rozi, also spoke out on the matter. He hoped that Ansor members were not involved in the anti-Shia demonstrations. “Gus” Fahrur said the PAKEM (Pengawasan Aliran Kepercayaan Masyarakat) was authorised to decide whether a certain belief was heretical or not.
Meanwhile Zainal Suwari, the local head of Banser, another NU youth group, said none of his members were involved in the demo. jawapos
On a later occasion, on 29th April, Hasyim Muzadi advised Shiite Muslims in Indonesia not to say bad things about any of the prophet Muhammad’s companions, like Abu Bakar, Umar bin Khatab and Usman, nor any of the early sheikhs, like Sheikh Abdul Qadir Djaelani, Imam Bukhori and Imam Muslim. If they did it would upset the feelings of NU members, he said.
He also said that efforts to divide Sunni and Shia Muslims in Indonesia were part of a wider international plot to weaken Islam, as was to be seen in Iraq and Palestine. tempo
150 Comments on “Shia Islam”
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Zahrah says:
Dear Aluang
I’m first Iranian then a shia. so if it is the matter of country or the matter of religion I’m ready to die. I will sacrifice my self for what I love and country and religion are among them.
bukhari is not our reference book it is sunni Im shia. if I bring some evidence from it bc I know sunni people dont accept shia ref.s.
what khomeini says is not the our permision in doing so, he declare if (God forbidden) somebody does this wrong thing the Hukm or religious law is this.
it is not daughter in law. it is the god-daugeter. the adopted girl, or the wife of the adopted son. yes the wife of the adopted son can be married to by a man, because an adopteds son is not one’s own son and this is the rule in western countries as a family cannot ask the adopted child (in some parts) to call the mother or father (it is against law). [khomeini is not my marja’ and I dont accept him as a religious figure. what I said is from logic and what he says is accepted, bc sinful people need guidance as well]
ladies in Saudi Arabia and warm countries get to their puberty at the age of 9 in contrast with cold countries such as russia that girls meet their puberty at the age of 17.
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Burung Koel says:
ladies in Saudi Arabia and warm countries get to their puberty at the age of 9 in contrast with cold countries such as russia that girls meet their puberty at the age of 17
I’d rather not enter into your bilateral religious discussion, but I can’t let that statement remain unchallenged.
The age of puberty is a factor of nutrition and genetics, not climate. In fact, the age at which girls enter puberty has been getting earlier and earlier in Western countries. Some scientists think artificial hormones in meat products may also play a part.
Zarah, that statement could not have come from a reputable physiologist. If the mullahs in your country use it, they are simply wrong, and perhaps you should then question their motives for doing so.
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Aluang Anak Bayang says:
@ Burung Koel
You think you know better than your creator, Allah swt? Typical Bule.
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Maybe not AAB. But next time I get sick, I’m going to a qualified doctor, not to a religious leader š
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Lairedion says:
ladies in Saudi Arabia and warm countries get to their puberty at the age of 9 in contrast with cold countries such as russia that girls meet their puberty at the age of 17
This statement made my day. To all girls age below 9 years living in warm Muslim countries: move to Siberia, Scandinavia or other cold places so your puberty will be postponed until age 17.
The real Submitters will do anything to justify their sick thoughts and acts.
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Let submitter be submitter, and believer be believer. Allah created 2 kind of people in this world – one to follow, the other one to lead.
Javanese wisdom says, “Some degree of stupidity existed in certain groups of people can sometime be beneficial to mankind. If everyone is a prophet unto themselves like majority Javanese, who is going to do the dirty job?”
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dear burung;
what I said was one factor while your’s ir also right at the same time. I can even say the way the girls think effect the part of the nature. it must be strange to u but it has been proved. my aim was to say we have the permission to cange the our religious orders under different situation as in Iran we have different laws for marriage than saudi Arabia. still what you said do nt effect the mani point. Islam is not that brutal religion and it has never tought so. Im shia and Imam Ali is my first leader. when I go dep into their mannerisms we get they are so kind ad great (I dont wan to oppose this to u, of course, that is my idea). the main point of this discussiion was that “do we have the permission to take weopons aimed at different sects only because they think differently? my answer was no. it is still no. we have been taugh by my main leaders (Imams) to respect them. whenever there is war in a country we help because we have learned so. we send money to them in need and we dont think about religion. some wounded palestinians have been brought to my country to hospital when they wanted to inject blood to them they didnt accept and called the globalblood center to send them blood because we are shia. what are we that we are worse than kafirs? although in “doralmansur” by “soyuti” (a sunni writer) is writen :after Moses his religion turned to be divided into 71 sects, after Jasus his religion turnes to be 72 sects and after me my religion will be 73 sects. [then he touches Imam Ali’ soulder and says] the only sect that goes to paradise are you shias Ali. so even we suppose that we are the best, atill we are not the worst. or prophet saww believed in us. so from the very moment we (shias) existed. Why sunni people, especially wahabbi and salafis kill us??? -
Mohammed Khafi says:
Zahrah said:
so from the very moment we (shias) existed. Why sunni people, especially wahabbi and salafis kill us???
Politics and Power Zahra!
Just as your clerics have brainwashed you into thinking that every sunni wants to kill you, their clerics have brainwashed some of them into hating shia Islam. As long as both you and them pay more attention to your clerics than to the Word of Allah, Al Quran, nothing will change.
It doesn’t matter what you call yourself, Shia, Sunni, or Kharjarite. As soon as you start to follow something that is not directly from Al Quran, you are part of a sect. You have let go of the rope that never breaks.
Allah says:
And hold firmly to the rope of Allah all together and do not become divided. And remember the favor of Allah upon you when you were enemies and He brought your hearts together and you became, by His favor, brothers. And you were on the edge of a pit of the Fire, and He saved you from it. Thus does Allah make clear to you His verses that you may be guided. 3:103 -
Pakmantri says:
@Zahrah,
You are one paranoid troubled woman, sister! I think you need help but not from the internet nor religion, you need to resolve your personal issue first before you can learn anything else. I am sorry.
Do you know why I love my country, Indonesia, which has more than 86% Muslim population?
I’ll tell you why, if you ask most Muslim in Indonesia (the common people) what kind of Islam they are following they will say Islam Islam period. If you ask them if they know Sunni, Shia or other brand of Islam most of them will drop their jaw and said “what?”
Islam to them is just Islam, they read Qur’an, they pray 5 times a day, they do good deed and they follow what is required in the Qur’an and they don’t even care nor know what brand of Islam they follow.Only lately, some of the scholars who returned from studying in the middle-east started to introduce the separations in Islam, shame on them!
So you see, it is only in your part of the world who made the separations and branding in Islam.Salam.
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I’m ill, yes exactly. u r right. but what is this article in this forum. I was just searching for my reluigon forums when I encountered urs. here my jaws dropped when i saw sunni guys have invaded a shia organization. u who think i have illusion of being killed tell me what was it. tell me why this disscussion raised? do u remember? after that article i saw some guys rediculing my sect and one guy rasied soem ?s about shia. i answered him. but Mr. khafi keeps telling me u r wrong if u follow prophet or nur sholars. i said I have my way and u urs. do regard why this discussion was started??? it was a matter of invation. it is new in indonesea, but in Iran it has been started 300 years a go when Great Britain’s zionism established wahhabiat which is a muslim sionist sect. they are killing us. u dont know bc u r not in Iran/Iraq/ Saudie Arabia. u dont have my back ground and u think im sick. if u go to Karbala u see many people with mental problems. they are sick u klnow why? bc Sadam has not left anything to them. there is agirls’ school there that he had ordered his soldiers several times to invade it and they did and killed all the people (teachers primary students,…) and hanged them. yes I am sick. sick of being killed. sick of being called kafir so having a helal blood to be shed. 30 moftis of Saudie gathered together and released a law sayin” shias are kafir and there blood is helal. if u kill 9 shia paradise is wajib to u. u can kill a shia man and marry his wife at the same time bc they are kafir and a kafir female has not gotten Eddah”. yes u are right im sick.
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30 moftis of Saudie gathered together and released a law sayinā shias are kafir and there blood is helal
Zharah,
Those Muftis are in Saudi and you are in Iran, so why do you care so much about what they said or did? Forget about other people in other places, unless they come and invade Iran and tell you what to do then you can fight for your right.
Life is full of challenges and struggles as it is why worry about what other people said or do??Salam.
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Asad says:
Asalam Alaikum,
AllSectarianism must be ended everywhere, if its new in Indonesia then govt. must try to end it by force because its something that is not done by Masses but small groups who have their own interest they use it for politics for power and for money.
my country Pakistan is a worst example of secterianism since 1980’s (however it roots goes deep to iran revolt) shia and sunnis use to live in same streets their are no difference areas for sunnis or shias all sects are cooperative but small groups of religious thugs keep on trying to create tension between Sunnis and Shia.
May ALLAH save your country from this miserable problem.
Rgds;
asad -
Zahrah said:
but in Iran it has been started 300 years a go when Great Britainās zionism established wahhabiat which is a muslim sionist sect.
Zahrah, I am sorry my dear but it is about time that you started to pull your head out of the sand which is your clerics teaching, rubbed your eyes and started reading for yourself. This fantasy story about Great Britain and Zionism inventing Wahhabism is a complete fabrication, the story on which it is based has been completely discredited. Just go to the folling link and read it yourself.
Yes, some Sunni hate Shia, but by the same account some Shia hate Sunni, you are both different faces of the same coin.
In fact neither of you represent the true Islam of Allah as portrayed in Al Quran and as practiced by the Prophet. This true Islam tells us to beleive in and treat all of the prophets equally, it enjoins us to argue in good ways so that who was our enemy could become like our friends, it enjoins that ANY who beleive in Allah, the Day of Judgement, and does good deeds has nothing to fear from Him, and ANY means ANY. It encourages learning and finding out the truth for ourselves, it tells us not to blindly follow others, it warns us against clerics and holy men. It encourages equality in geder, race, and religion and tells us that there is no compulsion in our deen. It tells us to be fair, honest, and non judgemental.
How far both Sunni and Shia have diverged from Allah’s straight Path!
As Pak Mantri said earlier, we didn’t have any concept of sect in Islam in Indonesia, we have our problems but that wasn’t one of them. We have had various clerics either from the Middle East or trained there, who over the centuries have tried to persuade us to follow their doctorines, but generally we have remained tolerant and understanding. It is only since the Petrodollar Dawah of the Middle East started interfering in our faith that these problems have started to raise their ugly heads.
Peace
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Those Muftis are in Saudi and you are in Iran, so why do you care so much about what they said or did? Forget about other people in other places, unless they come and invade Iran and tell you what to do then you can fight for your right.
may God bless u!!! Arabia is where the house of God is places and our haji go there every year. millions of Iranians go there. and saudie has told the sunni parts of Iran that if u have one more child we will protect the whole family financially. it is while my gov. tells us the population of us is growing rapidly and u ought to reduce it (about 1.5) so the number of sunnis are growing in contrast with shias. the problem is thet my gov. is the slave of saudi’s gov. their demarche is in copmplete accordance with that of Saudie. the problem is that my gov. is protecting wahhabiat. and they are growing in our hands and they dont do anything. anyway I think this is such a waaste of time bc u dont know anything about Iran except for those parts my gov. has wanted u to see which is a nice face of protecting islamic umma. I am in the fire of which other muslim people in the world feel only the warmth.
ok I think Im over with this from. we have said what we were to.
Good bye -
Assalamualaikum sister Zahrah,
I see where your dilemmna lies. Iranians can’t let go of their Arab lovers. In this relationship, Arabs being the ‘male’ and Iranians, the psychologically abused ‘female’ spouse.
How the heck you know God lives in a black cube in Arabia? Your Arab lover must have told you that and gullible Iranian lover believed it. God do not need a house. He ain’t human. If He had to choose a place to live, it would most likely be one of our great temples in Central Java. If you think Arabia is blessed with oil because God lives there, think again, the nusantara (the Malay archipelago) has all the natural wealth any nation could dream of. Our billionaires and millionaires combined makes up more than half of the world’s wealth.
Sister Zahrah, your people need to break up their love affair with the Arabs. They need a new boyfriend who treat their womenfolk well. Next time you think of performing your haj, consider our Borodudur. The people are friendly and Javanese moslem won’t call you a kaffir because you are a shia. Sunni and Shia Iranian are well liked here as long as they keep their religion to themselves.
Wasalam.
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I see where your dilemmna lies. Iranians canāt let go of their Arab lovers. In this relationship, Arabs being the āmaleā and Iranians, the psychologically abused āfemaleā spouse.
I must confess that u r very good at deciding on things that u dont know or maybe understand well. any way the only thing I wanted to mention is that today’s world is the world of forums and information neither shias nor sunnis nor even any sect or religion is secure from criticise and judgment. the day on which you would have an Indonesea without contradictions are over bc this world demands deeply conventions of not only different sects but also different nations. even ur personal attitudes are not safe from being criticised so as long as such criticisms exsit we ought to learn how to “live and let live” while answering others’ comments or critiques on our beliefs and and criticizing them the other way around.
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How the heck you know God lives in a black cube in Arabia? Your Arab lover must have told you that and gullible Iranian lover believed it. God do not need a house. He aināt human. If He had to choose a place to live, it would most likely be one of our great temples in Central Java.
Going on historical precedent, Ms Zahrah could argue that her homeland is where monotheism started. It’s the place where Ahura Mazda revealed himself to Zoroaster, is it not?
Not that I want to get into this…
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Assalamualaikum sister Zahrah,
All humans are born equal, but cultures are not. The world has alot to learn from us. Our egalitarian and tolerant society was not borne out of struggle or bloodshed. It was there since time began. We are simply gifted with such discerning qualities. To us, it is Javanese nature to ‘show mercy’, ‘respect your elders’, ‘treat all genders equally’ or ‘to you your religion, to us ours’. When the quran was presented to our forefathers by Arab traders, nothing said were miracles. However it was the other way round. We have to remove the filth and gross verses in the quran. Disgusting verses like ‘you can have sex with right hand possessions’, ‘you daughter in law is halal to have sex with father-in-law’ or ‘beat your wife if she refuses sex’ were discarded.
Sister Zahrah, you have to admit Iranian culture is far inferior than majority Asian cultures, there is no argument about it. It is not what I read or heard from websites, but rather that Iranians still cling on to their abusive Arab masters and wished they were Arabs. What happened to the Great Persian empire. In the nusantara, the legacy of our Great Mojopahit empire still live on in each and every Javanese. Whether you are christians, Hindu, or moslem; once we aged, we return to the fold of Javanese kejawen. Most of our past greats, our presidents, our leaders are non-practising moslem, but avowed kejawen followers. Unlike Iranians, we are proud of our national heritage.
Sister Zahrah, I thank you for your contribution. It is a pleasure to have you here. Feel free to drop in a line or two. We love Shia, Sunni and Sufi.
Wasalam.
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DumadiSatrio says:
Zahrah, please take a deep breath, nobody wants to kill you…………..Big Hug for you……..feel better.
I dont mean to sound rude, but it sounds like a poison has infected your heart with hate, fear, and death (Pak AAB calls it the Arab disease).
You are obsessing about death, killing, and myrterdom, which is clouding you.Go take a break, read some good Persian poetry like Vis and R?min by Asad Gorgani, and most of all relax…
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Mir Shourath Ali says:
Please dont play blame game,The biggest enemy of Islam is Israil,America and so on, Now only Shias are fighting with yahudis,Just help them to combact attrocities, Dont give shelter or base to these culprits,Right from begining Iran is against America,So be like Iran first,Reply to Mr wrong statement regarding Hazrath Abu talib S A,Mr wrong should know who recited Nikah of prophet, where did prophet live,who was a true companion of prophet, to whom prophet said, Munkunto Maula wo hada Ali Moula,Why you are jealous of Imam Hussain,let them pray namaz on the soil of Karbala, you should know who Imam hussain is,he is a grandson of Prophet S A,Dont manipulate the word mutha like marriage with 6yr old girl for brainwashing people’s mind,If you were true Muslim you would have not used the other word next to 6 yr old girl sentence,Pls try to know more about shia and their leaders,For what Imam Hussain sacrificed his entire family,
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@ Mir Shourath Ali
I think Mr. Wrong is correct because I have met many Iranians who said they can have sex with children as young as 1 year old. Reason being children matured early in hotter climate. A 1 year old baby in colder climate country would be matured to a 10 year old child in your land. Thus a 6 year old kid is probably around 21 year old in Arabia or Iran.
Sister Zahrah agreed with the above. If you are another Iranian, I am interested to know what you think.
Salam.
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Salam Mr Aluang,
Let me tell you whether I am Iranian or not, First we are human being who is created by god and killed by some fanatics who thinks they are the one, who judges whether we are right or wrong,Even enemies praises about the tradition and culture of Iran,Regarding your comments on mutha you supported your brother the so called Mr Wrong, even I met Iranians and asked about your comments, they said you are liar,I believe them, Because whatever they say, they mean and stick to their word,Wa Salaam
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Assalamualaikum Mir Shourath Ali,
I was just enquiring. Calling me a liar is a bit harsh. Why not you ask sister Zahrah about girl maturity in hot climate. She is from Iran and a true moslem.
Also there ain’t no Iranian tradition and culture. Gone with the wind. Iran is now a vassal state of Greater Arabia. The only real Iranians are living in western countries.
Wasalam.
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Mir Sourath Ali said:
Please dont play blame game,The biggest enemy of Islam is Israil,America and so on,
No my friend, the biggest enemy of Islam are the corrupt clerics playing games with peoples lives to hold onto power and influence.
Peace
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Salam Mr Mohammed Khafi
Clerics are recognised in a small group or sector, But politicians are the one who is accepted on the whole, No cleric is in U N O, -
Iran is famous for dry fruit, Zaffron and Apples,Obviously the climate is cold, so Mr Aluang Sister Zahra clarified you about hot climate and maturity,not about mutha, where as per your statement and calculation was concerned.
WS
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Abdul Sattar Khan says:
Salam Alaikum Dear Brothers and Sisters.
I am looking for Islamic Literature in the Indonesian Language based on
the SHIA SCHOOL OF THOUGHT.I will be very thankfull if some body could help me in this regards.
May Allah Bless you.
your brother in ISLAM.
Abdul Sattar Khan.
Note : ALL MUSLIMS ARE BROTHERS AND SISTERS . SHAITAN /IBLIS IS THE ONE
WHO PUTS DISCORD AND HATRED AMOUNG US. -
Abdul Sattar Khan said,
Note : ALL MUSLIMS ARE BROTHERS AND SISTERS . …..
Wrong! It should be “ALL HUMAN ARE BROTHERS AND SISTERS”, is it not??
After all we all came from ADAM and EVE. Or maybe not, we evolved from primate, just like Darwin said, that’s why we could never stop fighting with each other.
Salam. š
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Abdul Sattar Khan said:Note :
ALL MUSLIMS ARE BROTHERS AND SISTERS . SHAITAN /IBLIS IS THE ONE
WHO PUTS DISCORD AND HATRED AMOUNG US.But Allah says that ALL who believe in Him, the day of Judgement and do Good Deeds have nothing to fear! That creates a lot more brothers and sisters for you Abdul Sattar Khan! Or do you not believe in Allah’s word?
But I guess Pakmantri is right, all humans are brothers and sisters, nobody said your brothers or sisters had to be good did they?
Peace
Comment on “Shia Islam”.
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Zahrah,
What is this obsession you have with the idea being killed? I would never dream of such a thing, we are simply debating ideas and practices of faith, Allah clearly says there is no compulsion in religion.
I haven’t tried to explain further any verses relating to hands because it is clear that your interpretation is coloured by your traditions and culture. It is clear that whatever I said you would simply ignore, as you have clear and simple verses in Al Quran, even after being shown that your translations of the first verses you quoted were incorrect and misleading you didn’t answer those points and simply tried to divert attention away from that fact.
As to your obsessive love of The Prophet, Fatima and Ali, that is your choice, but it seems to me that it frighteningly echoes the love that some Christians have for Nabi Isa, which utimately led them regarding Nabi Isa as being God Himself, and then telling the Mankind that the only way to salvation is through Him.
When they are told, ‘Come to what Allah has sent down and to the Messenger,’ they say, ‘What we found our fathers doing is enough for us.’ What! Even if their fathers did not know anything and were not guided! 5:104
Now, surely, sincere obedience is due to Allah (alone) and (as for) those who take guardians besides Him, (saying), We do not serve them save that they may make us nearer to Allah, surely Allah will judge between them in that in which they differ; surely Allah does not guide him aright who is a liar, ungrateful. 39:3
Peace