Citizens’ Arrest
Mar 17th, 2007, in News, by PatungCitizens of Aceh are starting to enforce sharia laws by themselves.
People in various villages of Aceh have begun to take upon themselves the job of enforcing Islamic law in a complete way, it is said. For example, in the area of Lampoh Daya in Banda Aceh on the 8th of March dozens of young men surprised two unmarried couples who were thought to be engaged in lustful behaviour in a quiet corner of the village.
Then again in Cot Leuet, Blang Bintang, Aceh Besar, on the 11th, residents raided a house and found another couple up to no good. The village head, Hasyim Ahmad, says people had noticed a man, who as it turns out is a policeman, going into the house often. The house was occupied by a mother of one child, and the man waited until the woman’s husband and child were no longer at home before visiting.
The head of the Sharia office of the Banda Aceh government, Natsir Ilyas, says he supports the people’s efforts to rid the province of sin but that they shouldn’t go over the top and act and judge and jury. Natsir says those caught in citizens’ arrests should be handed over to the relevant authorities. gatra
52 Comments on “Citizens’ Arrest”
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Janma says:
guys! There is no ideal!!!!! things are always imperfect…. that’s part of the world! You want perfect, then go to your heavens masing masing…. ha ha….. it’s so infantile don’t you think? If everyone were mature self realized and enlightened then you would have a perfect state without government, without laws and without enforcement….. but until then…. here we are, just trying to find the right balance…. even with sharia people are still people, they will still find a way to f*ck it all up.
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Cukurungan says:
Janma,
” well said “, so the conclusion any law system is ok as long as the majority people subjected to the law agree with it.
Considering the majority people of Aceh were overwhelming support “sharia law” so from now on for the outsiders better stay a way and let us see together what Aceh will be.
Might I already made another a stupid comments and the smart comments should be any a law system is ok except a sharia law.
thanks,
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Mohammed Khafi says:
Cuk said:
” well said “, so the conclusion any law system is ok as long as the majority people subjected to the law agree with it.
Considering the majority people of Aceh were overwhelming support “sharia law” so from now on for the outsiders better stay a way and let us see together what Aceh will be.
Might I already made another a stupid comments and the smart comments should be any a law system is ok except a sharia law.
As to you first statement, yes I guess you are correct, that after all is what democracy is all about is it not?
Where do you get the information that the majority in Aceh wanted Sharia Law? This was forced on the people by the government, it was not their choice, since this choice was made the people in Aceh have voted and voted for secular govenor and deputy!
I think you have already answered you third statement satisfactorily.
Peace
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Nelson says:
Aluang anak Bayang Says:
I am in favour of capital punishment for serious crimes such as murder, rape and pedophilia, but certainly not to be done in public square.
Who was that person who married a 9 year old child?
Hassan Says:
Have you conducted a thorough scientific study that can prove once and for all that Sharia (or any other religious law from any religion, for that matter) is bad for humanity?
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Yunir says:
Dear nelson,
I wonder where you cut and paste that from? You forgot the recent peace prize won by Muhd Yunus & the Grameen Bank. :p
Ok , one more doesn’t balance the numbers up.Anyway, first of all Jews is beyond religion. Jews is also an ethnic group. And not all Jews actually practice Judaism. Albert Einstein is one perfect example. And so was Karl Marx. Ohh wait, sorry, Marx isn’t on the list. But you get the point.
So, to compare an ethnic group with a religion is very problematic. You can however, compare Arabs with Jews. Or Chinese with Jews. Or Indians with Jews. That would be more fair. Ethnic with ethnic.
If you want to compare religion, then you have to make sure the people are really practitioners of their own faith. That would then be fair. If you say it’s impossible to tell. Then don’t compare! Because you have no solid ground!
Dear nelson.
You seem to remain ignorant about 9-year old marriages thing.
No academics (secular or otherwise) has ever put this against the Prophet s.a.w.
The only people who will say the Prophet is a rapist is from people with narrow worldview.I don’t want to make a long lecture. You just won’t read.
So, I’ll just leave you with this word. Please look it up.
– Ethnocentricism -
Dear nelson.
You seem to remain ignorant about 9-year old marriages thing.
No academics (secular or otherwise) has ever put this against the Prophet.
http://www.opinionjournal.com/editorial/feature.html?id=110009771
Dear Yunir. Anyway, first of all Islam is beyond religion. Islam is an ethnic group that unfortunately has gown outside its borders. And not all Muslims usually practice Islam. Ayaan Hirsi Ali is one perfect example. And so Saddam Hussien. Ohh wait, sorry, Saddam isn’t on the list. But you get the point.
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Yunir Says:
So, to compare an ethnic group with a religion is very problematic. You can however, compare Arabs with Jews.
Comparision of Arab (islamic) and Jewish Nobel Prize Winners:
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Nelson,
Whether you’re happy or not there’s reality 1.2 billion moslem already in the planet. If you smart that a goods market but if you want to adjust yourself becomes our enemies its your called.
Indonesia people has nothing to do with Jew and Arabic achievement. Meanwhile, our achievement is the biggest exporter TKW on earth.
thanks,
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Hassan says:
Nelson: Ayaan Hirsi Ali is a professional bigot, and an anti-Islam fundamentalist (as Hirsi Ali herself claims to be). I wouldn’t want to read any books written by fundamentalists, be it Islamic fundamentalists, Christian fundamentalists, White supremacists, Marxist-fascists, Judeo-fascists, or any other kind of those extremists.
Sure, I opened the link you gave (the one about Hirsi Ali), but I can already conclude what she’s all about after reading her statement: “But this culture, the West, the product of the Enlightenment, is the best humanity has ever achieved.” Yeah sure, that tells a lot, her opinions are biased and skewed, and she sounds like a well-payed sycophant a.k.a boot-licker.
Yunir asked you to look up the word “Ethnocentricism“, now I will have to ask you to look up this one: “Bigotry“.
“You seem to remain ignorant about 9-year old marriages thing.”
Nelson, you seem to remain ignorant about comparative sociology or customs of different peoples from different cultures, and indeed different ages. Comparing the cultures of 6th century Arabs with 21st century’s West? Yes Nelson, Apples are different than Oranges.
Or perhaps you seem to remain ignorant, period.
BTW, you kept bragging about how smart these Nobel-winning Jews, but your name isn’t a Jewish one. The question remains: what’s in it to you?
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Tomaculum says:
Maybe we should also list the misdeeds of the Jews and the islamic Arabs?
Maybe we should fight the anti-fundamentalist fundamentalists, anti-fundamentalists, anti-brownmen fundamentalists and all of anti-anti fundamentalists? -
Tom,
I don’t think we have enough space to list all of the misdeeds of those two groups.
Maybe we should be fighting the fundamentalist anti-fundamentalist fundamentalists, the fundamentalist anti-fundamentalists, the fundamentalist anti-brownmen fundamentalists and all of fundamentalist anti-anti fundamentalists? 🙂
Peace
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Yeah, Hassan’s right.
Nelson, you should look up the word bigot. Does it suit you well? I dunno, you’re already wearing the bigot suit and you look handsome in it.Regarding the list, I already pointed out earlier, the Jews are referred to as people of Jewish descent, not practitioners of Judaism.
Just like Chinese is an ethnic/racial group. But not all Chinese practice Chinese religion.In any case, I think Cukurungan said it right:
Indonesia people has nothing to do with Jew and Arabic achievement.
Nelson,
Hello? Can you hear me?Ayaan Hirsi Ali is not an academic and her conclusion wasn’t an academic one.
I did say academics. (strong emphasis intended).
You quoted me right, but I guess you’re not a very good reader.
Academics mean scholarly qualitative research studies. If the researcher is not a scholar or not currently in any academic institution, then the papers must be presented to academic schools for critics. Academic schools=universities.
But even after critics approval, the paper is still subjected for further critics as it is disseminated throughout the academic world.
Anyhow, what Hirsi Ali did was purely personal expression. Yeah, I too can publish a book title The Bigot Boy from Indonesia Matters.
I don’t argue there are many more people like you and Hirsi. Most of them seem to come from the World Bigot Society. Are you a member of that society Nelson?
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Halliburton are one of the most corrupt companies doing business worldwide.
I would have said Pertamina would have top the list before Halliburton
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My apologies for the poor English, the point I was trying to make was that Halliburton was a huge multinational making huge profits worldwide and having significant influence in American Politics, and even in the Whitehouse. Pertamina are pretty insignificant in the worldwide scheme of things and don’t really have any influence in the American Political scene or the Whitehouse.
Which do you think should be of more concern to you?
Peace
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Hassan Says:
Have you conducted a thorough scientific study that can prove once and for all that Sharia (or any other religious law from any religion, for that matter) is bad for humanity?
Cukurungan Says:
Indonesia people has nothing to do with Jew and Arabic achievement. Meanwhile, our achievement is the biggest exporter TKW on earth.
Yunir Says:
Regarding the list, I already pointed out earlier, the Jews are referred to as people of Jewish descent, not practitioners of Judaism.
Just like Chinese is an ethnic/racial group. But not all Chinese practice Chinese religion.Read Hassan’s question, it has nothing to do with race it’s all about religion and what is bad for humanity. That is why the Muslims only have half a dozen noble prize winners. Wake up and smell the roses.
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Nelson, you are ridiculing yourself.
it has nothing to do with race it’s all about religion and what is bad for humanity
That is exactly what you have done!! By saying Jews have hundreds of nobel prize winners, you are saying the Jewish race is superior.
Let me emphasise here. Jewish race is not Judaism.
Arrggh!!!That’s it, explaining three times is all I can bother.
Wake up and smell the roses
Yeh, yeh, whatever.
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Nelson,
There is no question even in Quran God said that Jews is a special human because “God given” to Jews already so much compared to other human races. As we can see in “Abraham Religion” most prophets were Jews.
But please open your eyes bit wider and don’t drink too much tuak, what Hasan mentioned with the human history should be considered from beginning human history let say at least before Christus. Don’t zoom your view in the time frame when the west Christian and Jews in their Golden Age.
At the time of Moslem Golden Age during Chaliphate Andalusia, Abbasia and Utsmani more than 700 hundred years Moslem (with Sharia Law) dominating the worlds but at that time, Noble Prize not yet available.
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Cuk said:
At the time of Moslem Golden Age during Chaliphate Andalusia, Abbasia and Utsmani more than 700 hundred years Moslem (with Sharia Law) dominating the worlds but at that time, Noble Prize not yet available.
You really need to learn a little more about Sharia Law, despite what your teachers tell you, Sharia Law did not exist in the form that you understand it, in the early days of Islam, Sharia was just the ‘straight path’ followed by Muslims, who were using Al Quran as their source. This is confirmed by the fact that the Golden Age of Islam allowed the depiction of living creatures in art, encouraged vine growing and production of wine, encouraged education and learning for all, and promoted tolerance and reasoning.
History tells us that the Caliphate of Harun ar-Rashid marks one of the great periods of Islam. Ironically, until the death of Harun ar-Rashid in 809 AD, there was nothing like ‘Fatwa’ or ‘Sharia Laws’ in the Muslim domain. Even when appointing Harthama as the governor of Khorasan, Harun ar-Rashid gave him a copy of the Koran and not a book of Sharia laws.
The crawling of Sharia Laws into Islam, spans over sever centuries. There is a long history behind Sharia Laws becoming Islamic paradigm. In short it started after 809 AD.
It was only after the compilation of Hadith and Sunnah, and their abuse to formulate Sharia Law as you understand it, that Islam entered a decline, which it is still in.
I have posted a number of questions about Sharia to you, Hassan and 1ndra, but have never had them replied to regarding which Sharia Law you support, because every implementation is different. I have also asked you how you can justify supporting something which clearly abrogates Al Quran in so many ways, I have never received a clear reply to any of my questions, just as Ihaknt is still waiting for her reply from Hassan.
Had governance by a Sharia-based Islamic state been so important in Islam, we would have expected clear instruction in the Qura’an and the Prophet to say so. But there is no such document. The Prophet never instructed this even in his last sermon during the last Hajj or in his last three instructions from his deathbed.
Now let us look into a few specific Sharia laws to evaluate how they violate corresponding Qura’anic verses.
1. Law of stoning to death for committing prohibited sex violates Chapters Noor, verses 2 &3, Nisa 15, 16 and 25. The Qura’an does not prescribe the death sentence, but accepts repentance for such acts.
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Footnote: – The very concept of Sharia as a tool of governance violates the Qura’an in Chapters Ahkwaf -9, Ahzab-45 & 48, Anam -48, 52, 66, 69 & 107, Araf -61, 62, 67, 68, 79 & 93, 188, Bakara 272, Gashiyah -21 & 22, Kwahf – 29 & 56, and Mayedah -92 & 99, Nisa 165, Kwaf 45, Yunus -108, As-Shura 48, Ra’ad 40 etc. In these verses, the Qura’an clearly declares that the only responsibility of Prophets was not to govern, but only to deliver God’s message. Even the word “Poygamber” (Prophet) comes from the word “Poygam” (Message). Examples- “I send messengers only to deliver message”, “Prophets’ task is only to deliver”, “Duty of My Prophets is nothing but to deliver the message”, “You are not their administrator, you are only a messenger”, “Do you want to force them?” etc.2. Law of rejecting women’s eyewitness in Hudood cases violates Chapter Noor 4, 11-20. Sahi Bukhari Vol-5, Hadith # 462, confirms this violation.
The Polygamy law violates Chapter Nisa verses 3, 4 and 127. Sahi Bukhari Hadith # 2428, 2472 and 2473 confirm this violation. Polygamy is only admissible in case of orphans, and still restricted by behaviour-codes.3. Law of killing apostates violates Chapter Bakara 256, Tawbah 66, 68, Imran 86, 88, Nahl 106 etc.
4. Law of instant divorce by Muslim husbands violates many Qura’anic verses.
5. Law of requirement of four adult male Muslim eyewitnesses to prove rape is a clear violation of common sense and Qura’anic use of the word “Sharia” as justice.
6. Law of forcing divorced women to marry a stranger, have sex with him and get divorced from him to remarry her former husband is nothing but forced prostitution.Sharia is indeed man-made law because more than six thousand laws (In Imam Shafi’i’s and Imam Abu Hanifa’s books) cannot be made based on only few Qura’anic verses relating legal instruction, which are indeed contextual. As other sources of Sharia are not divine, those cannot contribute to so called “Allah’s Law”.
And these are just a few of many, but how many do you need to realise that the Sharia Law as you understand it is not Divine Law?
Peace
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Khafi,
Let me make it clear that any sharia law shall be based on Quran, anything against Quran Principal is beyond Sharia Law. However, I didn’t believe your understanding that all Hadist are man made words deliberately intended to replace and abuse the Quran teaching. And I also didn’t agree with your opinion that the cause of moslem decline is because of the sharia law.
Can you show me a hadist soheh that encourages a moslem to become beggar and time waster, lazy, squanderer, terrorist and a law abuser. To make it clear show me hadist that requested moslem to become a beggar in order to have a mosque as we can see easily in daily live moslem Indonesia.
I already said so many time in my previous post that I didn’t reject all hadist or didn’t accept all of them.
Sharia Law is almost the same as a school regulation, there’s no question that the school regulations is only applicable for their students and not applicable to anyone outside the school. I agree that there’s no religion by force but once you decide Islam is your religion then Sharia Law will be applicable to you. Sharia Law is the same as other law, it needs so called a law enforcement system in this case Government (state) position is very crucial. Once Sharia Law Enforcement are fully handled by Government so that there’s no more the sharia law enforcement by crowd or masses.
I was thought that you’re “Quran in real actions” but it was turned out to be completely wrong you’re only the arrogant man that claimed your self knowing the truth and considering other moslem as a bunch of funny people and it seemed you didn’t hesitate to make other moslem as your object for joking.
Even you dared to blame God for encouraging “prostitution” you’re very a brave and inteligent person but you were only abusing your IQ for ridiculing God’s command and other moslem.
Concerning Law of forcing divorced women to marry a stranger, have sex with him and get divorced from him to remarry her former husband. If you believe God won’t betray His creature, it is quite clear that God doesn’t like a couple to divorce so even divorce itself is not Sin but God was setting-up very tough regulations to divorce as said in the Quran. So the real message for me “hai man don’t play with divorce even divorce is allowed”.
Friend if you’re realy confident that you’re only the one’s in the straight path, I do hope you dare to go down from “your golden tower” and spread your words to “orang banyak” not only in this blog.
Thanks
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Cuk,
Let me make it clear that any sharia law shall be based on Quran anything against Quran Principal is beyond Sharia Law.
That is very encouraging Cuk, well done, so when Allah in Al Quran says:
Shall I seek other than GOD as a source of law, when He has revealed to you this book fully detailed? Those who received the scripture recognize that it has been revealed from your Lord, truthfully. You shall not harbor any doubt. 6:114
The word of your Lord is complete, in truth and justice. Nothing shall abrogate His words. He is the Hearer, the Omniscient. 6:115
Wert thou to follow the common run of those on earth, they will lead thee away from the way of Allah. They follow nothing but conjecture: they do nothing but lie. 6:116
What do you understand him to mean?
However, I didn’t believe your understanding that all Hadist are man made words deliberately intended to replace and abuse the Quran teaching. And I also didn’t agree with your opinion that the cause of moslem decline is because of the sharia law.
I have never said that all of them are deliberately intended to replace and abuse Al Quran, however that is what they do, just listen to any Ustad or Imam, when do they ever mention Al Quran, they are always talking about Hadith, never quoting verses from the Holy Book.
Islam declined not because of Sharia Law but because of its implementation , which being based on Sunnah and Hadith is far from Allah’s Straight Path.
Can you show me a hadist soheh that encourages a moslem to become beggar and time waster, lazy, squanderer, terrorist and a law abuser. To make it clear show me hadist that requested moslem to become a beggar in order to have a mosque as we can see easily in daily live moslem Indonesia.
I have never suggested that I could show you those things, stop trying to distract people away from the real point here.
I already said so many time in my previous post that I didn’t reject all hadist or didn’t accept all of them.
Whilst Allah, clearly states thet His Book is Complete, Perfect and Fully Detailed, why should you need to use any Hadith?
Sharia Law is almost the same as a school regulation, there’s no question that the school regulations is only applicable for their students and not applicable to anyone outside the school. I agree that there’s no religion by force but once you decide Islam is your religion then Sharia Law will be applicable to you. Sharia Law is the same as other law, it needs so called a law enforcement system in this case Government (state) position is very crucial. Once Sharia Law Enforcement are fully handled by Government so that there’s no more the sharia law enforcement by crowd or masses.
I agree that once you decide that you are a Muslim that Sharia Law is applicable to you, but who decide that Law or do we trust in Allah when he says that there is no compulsion in religion, and trust that he is testing us individually, Sharia can be practiced by all of us in our daily lives, I would no more think of imposing my interpretation of Sharia Law on you than you should on me. Law enforcement is completely unnecessary for religious pobservance. Allah knows what is in everybodies hearts, just because you force somebody to pray five times a day, doesn’t ensure that their hearts are clean and devoted to God.
I was thought that you’re “Quran in real actions” but it was turned out to be completely wrong you’re only the arrogant man that claimed your self knowing the truth and considering other moslem as a bunch of funny people and it seemed you didn’t hesitate to make other moslem as your object for joking.
Cuk, don’t make assumptions, you know nothing of my real actions, I do not consider it arrogant to try and redirect people to Allah’s Straight Path, but I have never forced anybody to believe what I believe, and for me this is far from a joke, it is a very serious matter indeed and I would be failing in my service to Allah if I sat silently and said nothing.
Even you dared to blame God for encouraging “prostitution” you’re very a brave and inteligent person but you were only abusing your IQ for ridiculing God’s command and other moslem.
Concerning Law of forcing divorced women to marry a stranger, have sex with him and get divorced from him to remarry her former husband. If you believe God won’t betray His creature, it is quite clear that God doesn’t like a couple to divorce so even divorce itself is not Sin but God was setting-up very tough regulations to divorce as said in the Quran. So the real message for me “hai man don’t play with divorce even divorce is allowed”.
My apology for a quick cut and paste from my resources, I should have double checked the quotation, you are of course quite correct.
Friend if you’re realy confident that you’re only the one’s in the straight path, I do hope you dare to go down from “your golden tower” and spread your words to “orang banyak” not only in this blog.
I am quite confident that I am not the only one! and I do get out and about to Pengajian to try to show people that maybe they have been mislead, and do you know what is the strangest thing? I have even had Ustad telling me that I am quite correct, but that is not what the masses believe, and if the Ustad tried telling the truth they would lose their livelihoods!
Peace
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Piddy says:
I would just like to point out: If a local government decides to outlaw a behavior, and the government is elected by it’s citizens, the law is valid. This is how sharia can become apart of secular law.
The criteria by which one should judge a law is if it serves the will of it’s people.
Comment on “Citizens’ Arrest”.
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Khafi,
Could you please tell me where it can be found an ideal state or an ideal law system already proven become breeding ground of tolerance and peace for mandkind. Don’t tell me about Andalusia because gone already.
thanks,