Saudi Treatment
Feb 17th, 2006, in News, by PatungA Saudi couple mistreat an Indonesian maid.
The case of a Saudi couple in Colorado, USA, who have been charged on various offences relating to their treatment of an Indonesian maid in their employ.
At the Arapahoe County District Homaidan Al-Turki, 37 is on trial for kidnapping, false imprisonment lasting four years, twelve counts of sexual assault, and extortion while his lovely wife Khonaizan faces the same charges minus the sexual assaults.
Separately they also face federal charges of forced labour, involuntary servitude and harbouring an illegal immigrant, while the Labor Department is suing the couple, saying they owe the woman $62,000 in unpaid wages.
The maid was allegedly repeatedly sexually assaulted by Al-Turki and was paid less than $2 a day over four years to cook, clean and care for the couple’s five children. It is also said she was sometimes loaned out to work for other families when her host family were on the move.
68 Comments on “Saudi Treatment”
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Ulf says:
If I have been raised in the Western World, but I have to live in a Muslim world, I shall need to get accustomed to the local laws or leave.
Slavery is not allowed in most parts of the Western World. Regardless of Muslim uses, if you come to live to our lands, you better learn that you have to live and abide by our laws.
A maid is a worker, not a slave. Period.
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Khalid Butt says:
” According to traditional interpretations of the Muslim holy book, the Koran, if a man owns a slave woman he is entitled to take advantage of her sexually ”
In Islam, a man or women, who earns money on daily basis is not classified as a slave.
There are many ignorant people in Muslim world that are by name Muslims and neither they pray five times a day nor they give zakat (2.5 % of there wealth each year to the poor). They bring in the parts of the quotations from holy book of Quran to defend there interest and ignore the rest.The Indonesian maid is not a slave according to the Holy Quran. The author Patung is very keen to tell in this story the above quotation but i will not be surprised if he doesnot know the chapter and the verse where its being quoted. If any one does take the trouble of finding this quotation in Quran, please read the whole chapter and not just one verse.
Since Al-Turki is married and is found guilty of having sexual intercourse with the maid (who earns 2 dollars a day – worker basically), guess what ? He is entitled for a capital punishment according to Quran.
Note:- A merried man found guilty of having sexual relation with another women, is entitle capital punishment. A non married man found guilty is entitled 60 lashes not capital punishment.
Note:- just for other’s to know, Stealing is allowed in Islam … YES ! only, if you are poor and are stealing bread or butter and the stolen amount should be less than what it takes to fulfill your belly.
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Aluang Anak Bayang says:
Dear Khalid Butt, according to the quran, women are not equal to men and as such should be treated as 2nd rate.
Note:- just for other’s to know, Wife beating is allowed in Islam “¦ YES ! only, if your wife is answering back and refusing to sleep with you and the beating should be carried out to keep her in line.
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Dear Khalid Butt again, re,
Note:- just for other’s to know, Stealing is allowed in Islam “¦ YES ! only, if you are poor and are stealing bread or butter and the stolen amount should be less than what it takes to fulfill your belly.
Read this,
5:38 Cut off the hands of thieves, whether they are male or female, as punishment for what they have done””a deterrent from God: God is almighty and wise. 39 But if anyone repents after his wrongdoing and makes amends, God will accept his repentance: God is most forgiving and merciful.Are you making a mockery of my religion? This man was lucky to get caned instead.
http://serambinews.com/index.php?aksi=bacaberitaphoto&berphotoid=437&rubrik=1 -
Dear, Aluang Anak Bayang
Could you please quote the chapter and the verse number from holy Quran the saying that “women are not equal to men and as such should be treated as 2nd rate.”
I never came across such a verse in my life of reading the holy Quran.
There are widespread erroneous misconception about the status of women in Islam This misconception was augmented by some news media that made little effort to correct their understanding before broadcasting their views on this matter. Adding to this misconception are the regrettable practices in most so called “Islamic” countries or societies where myths, traditions and innovations have won over the true Islamic (Quranic) teachings and where women are traditionally subdued and oppressed.
Let me quote a verse from the holy Quran about women and men equality.
In Quran, chapter 3, verse 195,
” Allah responded to them: “I never fail to reward any worker among you for any work you do, be you MALE OR FEMALE, YOU ARE EQUAL TO ONE ANOTHER.”As for your second argument,
“Note:- just for other’s to know, Wife beating is allowed in Islam “¦ YES ! only, if your wife is answering back and refusing to sleep with you and the beating should be carried out to keep her in line ”
I believe you are referring towards chapter 4, verse 34.
“The men are made responsible for the women, and Allah has endowed them with certain qualities* and made them the bread earners. The righteous women is obedient, guarding and unseen to other men, they will honor their husbands during their absence. If you experience rebellion* from the women, you shall first talk to them, if they don’t listen, don’t sleep with them in bed, then even if they don’t listen, *beat them. If they obey you, you are not permitted to transgress against them. Allah is Most High, Supreme ”
*qualities (physically stronger, don’t bare child in belly, don’t have menses)
*rebellion (women who is not obedient, not guarding the family)
*beat them (mildly not causing any injury or de-formality)If you continue to Chapter 4 verse 35:
“And if you fear a breach between husband and wife, then send an arbitrator (chosen) from his family and an arbitrator (chosen) from her family; if they both desire compromise, Allah will effect harmony between the couple; Verily Allah is All-Knowing and All-Aware.
My dear Aluang Anak, it does not interpolate as “if your wife is answering back and refusing to sleep with you and the beating should be carried out to keep her in line”.
Any one on this board wishes to write an argument from Quran, I beg you to write the chapter and the verse.
A very famous person in Islamic world Dr. Zakir Nayek has discussed on various issues among men and women equality in the light of Islam.
Regards
Dr. Khalid Butt5:38 Cut off the hands of thieves, whether they are male or female, as punishment for what they have done””a deterrent from God: God is almighty and wise. 39 But if anyone repents after his wrongdoing and makes amends, God will accept his repentance: God is most forgiving and merciful.
The verse translates following [5:38]: “As for the man who stealth and the women who stealth, cut off there (right) hands; as a recompense for what they (two have earned); as an exemplary punishment from Allah; and Allah is mighty, wise”
Yes indeed, when one reads the verse, it seems that even if some person stole a small piece of bread or a child stole a candy, should have his or her right hand removed.
The holy Quran was reviled at a period of 23 years. This verse was reviled on an incident when a wealthy Muslim lady in Makkah (holy city in Saudi Arabia) stole a piece of gold and was caught. Since she was wealthy, Muslim people recommended that she should be spared. But, during those hours this verse was reviled. Thus, Prophet Mohammad imposed this law and she lost her right hand.
Again, looking at the incident the verse was reviled on what matter?
A wealthy person stealing! Not on a child or hungry person stealing. Thus, this warrants a poor hungry man or women stealing enough food as to the amount less than to fill his belly.Let me enlighten you that the laws of Islam (Sharia law).
Again, many will be surprised to know that Sharia law states that if
someone is caught stealing — as a result of hunger, poverty or necessity
their hand should not be amputated. Instead, a thorough investigation
must be done as to the circumstances of the theft that caused the
individual to steal. If it is found that the individual stole as a result
of necessity, then instead of amputation, Sharia law dictates that
well-to-do members of the community provide support for the individual.
That provision could be in the form of financial support, employment,
education and charity that will prevent the person from becoming destitute
and having to steal again.I hope this answer’s your question.
Regards
Dr. Khalid Butt -
Ihaknt says:
Khalid Butt, Aluang is a 2-face snake, don’t worry about him. His previous posts before his ‘enlightenment’ opposed Islam, the bad and the ugly of it. And now he’s sort of pro-Islam and even justifies child abuse. He is a weirdo with no self-respect.
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…..And now he’s sort of pro-Islama and even justifies child abuse……
Yes, mbak Ihaknt, I have seen the light. When someone is trying to re-interpret our divine book, and twist the clear messages, it is my duty to point him out.
…..He is a weirdo with no self-respect.
You are slandering the name of an honest and innocent Muslim. Remember this, mbak Ihaknt,
*qualities (physically stronger, don’t bare child in belly, don’t have menses)
*rebellion (women who is not obedient, not guarding the family)
*beat them (mildly not causing any injury or de-formality)
You should be looking after your kids, get them bathed, and meal should be ready before your hubby comes home.I requote Pak Khalid Butt, please ponder over it, and be good Muslimah.
“The men are made responsible for the women, and Allah has endowed them with certain qualities* and made them the bread earners…”
I will come back to Pak Khalid Butt’s twisted verses tonight.
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Dear Dr. Khalid Butt,
A God fearing man can beat up their wife/wives, it is God sanctioned – at least we agree on this. Did God say ‘lightly’ or you say it yourself?
Could you please quote the chapter and the verse number from holy Quran the saying that “women are not equal to men and as such should be treated as 2nd rate.”
I never came across such a verse in my life of reading the holy Quran.
Look no further. Just up north in neighbouring Brunei. As soon as a country declare themselves ‘islamic’, women is 2nd rate. I am not a quran expert, but could all the clerics in these Islamic countries got them all wrong?
http://www.onlinewomeninpolitics.org/brunei/bruneimain.htm
I believe ‘denied equal status’ also mean ‘2nd rate’.….. so called “Islamic” countries or societies where myths, traditions and innovations have won over the true Islamic (Quranic) teachings and where women are traditionally subdued and oppressed.
Not traditionally for the Melayu race (something tells me that you are new to Indonesia). Thanks to God chosen Arab culture, we can now beat up wife/wives and halal to have sex with little adopted daughter, even babies as long as you don’t penetrate.
In the case of Brunei and Malaysia, true Islamic (Quranic) teachings have won over traditions. Indonesia is still struggling with their Javanese pasts, which is why Allah had sent down tsunamis and earthquakes, for being tolerant. Abu Dujana and co, are some of the well versed and good Muslims who tried to stop more calamities hitting our shore. I am sure you agree with me up till now.
Regards,
Another Good Muslim -
dewaratugedeanom says:
Dr. Khalid Butt
Any one on this board wishes to write an argument from Quran, I beg you to write the chapter and the verse.
Anyone one this board wishes to call himself Dr. other than a PhD in navel-gazing should mention his academic discipline and credentials.
Thank you
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Dear Aluang Anak Bayang,
“Look no further. Just up north in neighbouring Brunei…. ”
As i said before, there are a lot of Muslims (by name) that bring in the laws of Islam to defend there own interest.
No i am not twisting the translation of Quran. You need to study a little deeper as to how Quran gives the answer to the problems and how to obtain them.
If one verse doesn’t satisfy clearly how to beat, then the answer to that can come from another verse of the Holy book of Quran.
Chapter 38, verse 44
[To Job]: And take in your hand a bundle of thin grass and strike therewith your wife.Too all the Muslim men and women, i repeat : ” If one verse doesn’t satisfy the clear solution to a problem, just like the word ” beat ” (one can argue beat with what ? hand , legs, woodstick , metal road …. e.t.c) the answer lies in another verse.
And if there is a problem and the answer is not clear in holy book of Quran, then we need to look for the solution in the authentic hadise’s.
Regards,
Dr. Khalid Butt
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Well, I am P.h.D in electrical engineer.
I am currently working in Canada.
I will use plain Kbutt from now one.Regards,
kbutt -
Dear kbutt,
Did you give me Q38:44 thinking that I am too lazy to check? How on earth could you link two verses of no relevance to one another to satisfy your point? Allah SAW made it very clear and I am afraid he had sealed your heart. I have read from the 1st verse down to the end of chapter 38, and I see no connection. Go check yourself,
http://quran.al-islam.com/Targama/DispTargam.asp?nType=1&nSora=38&nAya=43&nSeg=1&l=eng&t=ind
Salam.
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“Did you give me Q38:44 thinking that I am too lazy to check? How on earth could you link two verses of no relevance to one another to satisfy your point? ”
Yes ! you are absolutely right, they are from different chapter’s (surra’s) but the fact of the matter is, if an answer to a problem is not addressed clearly in one verse of a sura or chapter, you need to see if Quran explains it some place else. Just like the case of beating. In one incident it states that beating is allowed but in the other verse it clearly states that Allah has authorized beating by a stack of thin grass.
A solution to a problem is identified in Isalm as follows.
1 – We look for a solution in the Holy Quran taking the whole Quran into account.
2 – If a solution to a problem is not found in the Holy Quran, we look in to the matters discussed in authentic hadises.
3 – If a soultion to a problem is not found in the authentic hadises, then a gathering of Muslim people is allowed by Allah and Allah’s hand will be upon them to come up for a solution.
This is the basic i am talking. you are clearly new to Islam, i hope this answer’s your question.
Regards
kbutt -
http://www.tparents.org/Library/Religion/Quran/038.htm
8.44: And take in your hand a green branch and beat her with It and do not break your oath; surely We found him patient; most excellent the servant! Surely he was frequent m returning (to Allah).
my heart is sealed or your eyes cannot see ?
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Friend kbutt, forget about ‘beat lightly’ and ‘stack of thin grass’, there is no lightly in the actual translation, and ‘green banch’ is the correct word. Anyway, the most important thing is that we both agree that wife-beating should continue for all mankind. Allah hearth, seeth and knoweth all things.
Say, I prefer to use the palm of my hand, sometime I use my ponsel over their head. What is your favourite method to keep them in line?
After this we go to another Allah sanctioned practise, sex with children. If Muhammad’s pbuh did it, then that pedophilia should be a virtue for all mankind and should also continue today.
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“the most important thing is that we both agree that wife-beating should continue for all mankind.”
Please don’t bring me in you agreements. No! , 100% i disagree with you. Never in the life our beloved prophet Mohammad (p.b.u.h) had sex with children.
You chose your methods of beating your wife and be accountable for answering you deeds.
To the Muslim men on this board, the argument which is taking place between Aluang Anak and i, i come across once or twice a week in Canada with women specially.
Please read it carefully and try to implement the teachings of Islam practically in your life. As to never to beat a women by other means except with a stack of thin grass bundle. And one must not forget the following verse.
Chapter 4 verse 35:
“And if you fear a breach between husband and wife, then send an arbitrator (chosen) from his family and an arbitrator (chosen) from her family; if they both desire compromise, Allah will effect harmony between the couple; Verily Allah is All-Knowing and All-Aware.Regards,
Kbutt -
My friend kbutt, re,
“the most important thing is that we both agree that wife-beating should continue for all mankind.”
Please don’t bring me in you agreements. No! , 100% i disagree with you. …..
and,
To the Muslim men on this board, the argument which is taking place between Aluang Anak and i, i come across once or twice a week in Canada with women specially.
I do not know which part of ‘talk, separate, then beat’ you don’t understand. I know that in today’s civilised world, wife-beating under any circumstances is spousal abuse, but who cares, the people making up this unholy term ‘spousal abuse’ are kaffirs. They have no idea about Allah’s way for all mankind to solve dispute with wife/wives.
….. As to never to beat a women by other means except with a stack of thin grass bundle.
Dear kbutt, I am sure you know that ‘stack of thin grass’ are not practically available, especially winter time in Canada. Let me explain further. See the below narration by Abu Huraira, from an authentic source.
The Prophet said, “Whoever performs ablution should clean his nose with water by putting the water in it and then blowing it out, and whoever cleans his private parts with stones should do it with odd number of stones.” (Sahih Bukhari 1.162, Sahih Bukhari 1.163)
‘Odd number of stones’ to clean one’s private part are for 7th century Arabia, now we use toilet rolls – don’t tell me you keep stones in your toilet.
‘stack of thin grass’ is obselete, we now use whatever is on our hand like, tv remote control or handphone smashed across the face.I will move on to ‘halal sex with children’ below after you are clear with wife beating issue.
Muslim (8:3309) – Muhammad married Aisha at the age of nine.
Muslim (8:3460) – “Why didn’t you marry a young girl so that you could sport with her and she could sport with you, or you could amuse with her and she could amuse with you?” Muhammad posed this question to one of his followers who had married an “older woman” instead.
Dear kbutt, don’t let the kaffirs change your mind, we both know that if our prophet pbuh did it, then it is a virtue. -
“Dear kbutt, I am sure you know that ‘stack of thin grass’ are not practically available, especially winter time in Canada. ”
Quite on the contrary. Its available through out the year !
With respect to our beloved prophet marrying Aisha,
Muslim men and women as well, please read the following text in the link provided.
http://www.jamaat.org/qa/ayeshara.html
regards,
kbutt -
Shiva says:
Shall we let Aisha, Mohammeds child bride have the last word
I have not seen any woman suffering as much as the believing women. Look! Her skin is greener than her clothes!
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Kbutt said
Could you please quote the chapter and the verse number from holy Quran the saying that “women are not equal to men and as such should be treated as 2nd rate.” I never came across such a verse in my life of reading the holy Quran.
Here’s one
Qur’an 4:11 an-nisaa’ “Allah directs you in regard of your children’s (inheritance): to the male, a portion equal to that of two females…. These are settled portions ordained by Allah.”1 male values 2 females
To my knowledge there is no abrogation of this verse or a hadith which elaborates on it.
However, whether some attitudes or actions are prescribed or condoned in the context of Al Qur’an and Sunnah is of little practical importance. Hairsplitting and nitpicking over scriptures may be fun in madrasahs and pesantrens, in real life it’s a waste of time. What really matters is the influence syariah exerts on people’s living circumstances, conceptions and perspectives.
In reality syariah is Islam and Islam is what Islam does. Just look around, read the news and stick to the facts.
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Dear friend kbutt, re,
Volume 9, Book 87, Number 140:
Narrated ‘Aisha:Allah’s Apostle said to me, “You were shown to me twice (in my wet dream) before I married you. I saw an angel carrying you in a silken piece of cloth, and I said to him, ‘Uncover (her),’ and behold, it was you. I said (to myself), ‘If this is from Allah, then it must happen.’ Then you were shown to me, the angel carrying you in a silken piece of cloth, and I said (to him), ‘Uncover (her), and behold, it was you. I said (to myself), ‘If this is from Allah, then it must happen.’ ”
For a 53 years old man in the 7th century to marry a 6 years old and deflowered her at age 9, the health care back then must be primitive so with today’s advance health care, it is completely halal for a 70 years old Muslim to marry a 6 years old.
Thank you for the link. We now agree that our creator allow us to marry young underage girl eventhough our pre-Islamic Javanese society frowned upon such union. We were ignorant then before Islam shone the light on dark Mojopahit.
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Qur’an 4:11 an-nisaa’ “Allah directs you in regard of your children’s (inheritance): to the male, a portion equal to that of two females”¦. These are settled portions ordained by Allah. 1 male values 2 females ? ”
This implies if there is no will left buy the father to the children. If the father wants from his will he can give all the children half, or every thing to one child.
Again, i repeat , this implies only when a father has not left a will.
Now, why in case of no will left, a male gets twice than a female, Because, the burden of the family comes on the brothers to take care of old mother and sisters.“Thank you for the link. We now agree that our creator allow us to marry young underage girl even though our pre-Islamic Javanese society frowned upon such union.”
Well, if the young under age girl you call (age 9 – 11) agrees to merry and her parents agree as well then who are you to question her will ?
regards,
kbuttAlso, one needs to be careful with respect to quoting hadiese. There are authentic and non authentic hadiese.
non authentic hadises, you will be shocked too know are in thousands !
Its to my knowlege that Sahi Albukhari hadeses are regarded as most authentic.
Regards,
Kbutt -
kbutt, re
Well, if the young under age girl you call (age 9 – 11) agrees to merry and her parents agree as well then who are you to question her will ?
EXACTLY! No invented law can take away that right from us. Aisha was playing with dolls as narrated by authentic hadis, so I presume she would be about the child’s age below,
http://www.flickr.com/photos/dianaaxtt/1075105049/
Our beloved prophet pbuh in his 50plus would look like the pictures below,
http://www.painetworks.com/photos/hq/hq0364.JPG
http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/41205000/jpg/_41205004_man416.jpgHere are proof:
Aisha is a prebuscent child.
Narrated ‘Aisha:
I used to play with the dolls in the presence of the Prophet, and my girl friends also used to play with me. When Allah’s Apostle used to enter (my dwelling place) they used to hide themselves, but the Prophet would call them to join and play with me. (Fateh-al-Bari page 143, Vol.13) Bukhari 8. 73.151Aisha and her parent agree to marry Allah’s beloved prophet.
The Prophet asked Abu Bakr for ‘Aisha’s hand in marriage. Abu Bakr said “But I am your brother.” The Prophet said, “You are my brother in Allah’s religion and His Book, but she (Aisha) is lawful for me to marry.” Bukhari 7.62.18
Okay, kaffirs and all non-believers, eat your heart out. We have proofs, authentic Quran said that Mohammad is his last prophet, and Mohammad pbuh said that Quran is from Allah.
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Dear moslem brother kbutt,
We agree on this:
1) Wife-beating is an honorable.
2) Pedophilia is virtuous.Next we will move on to
3) Sex with Daughter-in-law, then
4) Wife-swapping.Since you are comfortable with Sahih Al Bukhari, I will give quote from it.
Once all my Javanese brothers from NU and Mohammadiyah can follow the right path, tsunamis and erathquakes will start to rain upon Florida, Shanghai and annihilate the Jews. Islamic Golden Age will begin in Indonesia.
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Kbutt said:
No! , 100% i disagree with you. Never in the life our beloved prophet Mohammad (p.b.u.h) had sex with children.
Reminds me of Bill Clinton: “I never, I repeat never, had sex with that woman (Monica Lewinsky)”. No, he only poked a cigar in her yoni.
Please read here what the ‘fastest growing religion on earth’ has to say about sex with children:
The fatwa of Mufkhaza [rubbing the penis between the thighs] of children
Fatwa number dated 7/5/1421 Hijri
All praises be to Allah alone and prayers and peace be upon the one whom no prophet can come after him—-Moreover:
The Permanent Committee for Academic Research and Rendering Fatwas (religious edicts) has reviewed the religious opinion request sent to his beatitude, the General Mufti (Muslim scholar who interprets the shari’a), by the opinion seeker, Abu Abdullah Muhammad Al-Shammeri. This was referred to the committee by the general trusteeship of the committee of senior clerics as number 1809 and dated 3/5/1421 Hijri. The text of the religious opinion seeker’s question:
“The practice of performing Mufkhaza on small boys has recently become widespread, and especially during wedding celebrations. What is the [religious] validity of that knowing that the messenger of Allah, may Allah salute and pray on him, had preformed Mufkhaza on our lady Ayesha, may she find favor with Allah.”
After study by the committee for rendering fatwa’s, it answered with the following:
Resorting to these illegitimate practices, which came to our lands through pornographic films sent by the infidels and the enemies of Islam, is not consistent with centuries-long Islamic guidance. However, concerning the messenger of Allah, may Allah salute and pray on him, having had preformed Mufkhaza on his fiancée Ayesha: she was six-years-old and he could not have intercourse with her due to her young age therefore, he, may Allah salute and pray on him, would place his penis between her thighs and rub it gently. Also, the messenger of Allah possessed a penis unlike that of the believers.
Based on that, it is not permissible to carry on Mufkhaza during weddings, in homes, and in schools due to its excessive danger”¦ May Allah curse the infidels who brought these practices into our lands.
The Permanent Committee for Academic Research and Rendering Fatwas, Member: Bakr bin Abdu Allah Abu Zayed
Member: Salih bin Fawzan Al-Fawzan
Chairman: Abdul Aziz bin Abdu Allah bin Muhammad Al Al-SheikhArab text on demand.
Unfortunately the fatwa doesn’t elaborate on what made Allah’s Messenger’s (pbuh) penis different from that of the other believers.
Maybe it was a cigar.
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dewaratugedeanom, you may find it sick just because you have not read the Quran and hadithes. Once you submit yourself to Islam, ‘thighing’ is completely safe and recommended for all mankind, AND who are you to question our creator’s divine guidance for mankind? Tell me what are you going to do if you have an urge for sex and a baby is around. Unless you can show me another book that claim to be from God, you are just another racist, moslem basher. Allah seeth, hearth and knoweth all things. BEWARE!
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Aluang, woe on me. The blazing fire of hell awaits me. I will eat zaqqum and drink boiling water until it tastes like molten metal.
Astaghfirullah! -
“Once you submit yourself to Islam, ‘thighing’ is completely safe and recommended for all mankind!”
“[rubbing the penis between the thighs]”
You do not like to read quran and hadeses from sahi al bukhari, just want to tell the stories on the web which has no reference what so ever from our holly book of quran or authentic hadesses.
I have asked you before and I am asking again!
What is the chapter and verse number this is being said in the Holy Quran.
Or any reference from sahi-albukari hadises.
regards
Kbutt
Comment on “Saudi Treatment”.
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