Women Judges
Mar 4th, 2007, in News, by PatungWomen cannot be judges under sharia law, says a senior Egyptian judge.
Yahia Ragheb Daqruri, the president of the Egypt’s judges’ association, or Judges’ Club, says jurist that the appointment of female judges would contradict Islamic sharia law.
He reasoned that it would be unacceptable for women judges to have to deliberate
alone in a room with two or more male judges
and asserted that women judges would inevitably
become pregnant at some point, and that the pregnancy will certainly have an impact on the judicial prestige and on judges’ public image.
He is also said to have implied that becoming mothers would adversely affect female judges’ ability to handle certain cases:
giving birth can also have an impact on the cases a female judge is dealing with being dealt with correctly.
People present in the court would also be disturbed by the presence of a woman judge, he said. khaleejtimes
His reasoning was based on
the consensus of doctors of law and the principles of Sharia
Article Two of Egyptian Constitution, a 1980 constitutional amendment, says that
the principal source of legislation is the Sharia.
___________________
March 15th 2007.
On the 14th thirty-one new female judges were appointed to the Egyptian bench. Egypt’s Supreme Judicial Council chief Mukbil Shakir selected the judges from a pool of state prosecutors who had passed a test for the positions, though it is unclear to which courts the women will be assigned. This marks the first time women have been named to preside over criminal or civil cases in Egypt.
Some feminists complained that only state prosecutors were eligible. jurist
86 Comments on “Women Judges”
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Mohammed Khafi says:
Dimp said:
BTW, just wish I had more time to read more of your comment on some other topics.
I hope you are not suggesting that you don’t have time because my comments are too long? 😉
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Dimp says:
Hi MK,
I hope you are not suggesting that you don’t have time because my comments are too long?
Exactly my point, but I will try to read more of your comment in the future.
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Ihaknt says:
Hassa, I know you are busy, but does it really need to take you 4 days to give me one good example of sharia implementation on women in terms of her being a useful human being and able to use her intelligence? Examples of what and how she must dress, her position in marriage DON’T count.
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Oh forgot to add, Hassan you should be happy to enlighten me being a good Muslim and all. Then again we must learn from each other right? So now I would like you to try educate me to see things from your point of view.
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Hi Ihaknt,
This is the good thing about sharia implementation, that there is no good thing about it, thus making people reluctant to apply it. That is why it is good.
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Dimp, I was being specific; the effects of the implementation of sharia on women welfare. If our Hassan can give me a good example that is digestable by a thinking brain then I may reconsider changing my view. But it seems to find the good thing is very hard as he normally eats the bait quickly but not this time. So i am hoping that the example will be mind-blowing. And I am not talking about bombs here!
Believe it or not I did studied about those things first, I gave links to some of my sources, didn’t I? But of course my sources are not the foxnews types, which are apparently yours. I opened sites, forums, links, news channels, papers, etc. prior to commenting on an issue. Have you opened any Islamic source before starting to make fun of Sharia (or indeed your own Muslim brethren)?
Hassan, that line shows how sok tau you are. No I dont watch fox news as I dont have cable tv here. I watch local news and world news instead of CNN, read newspaper and probably do same things you do although not necessarily get the info from the same sources. But I don’t just believe what i see, read and hear, especially if it sounds a bit too much dibuat buat. But it seems to me that you are the fallen victim of media propaganda for not being able to see things from different angles and assess whether they are all true or just bollocks. I dont like fox news because it shows miseries and one sided view, wars wars wars and more wars. It’s hardly, if ever, shows the ‘other’ side. I dont need to see that. I know there are wars happening. And NO I dont condone the US for doing it either or anyone for that matter. But you must remember that the medias are there to sell stories. Maybe you need to watch a program called Foreign Correspondent. It’s a good show and it has given me different perspective on many different issues, including women’s welfare in different parts of the world, wealthy or not.
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Aluang anak Bayang says:
Before I comment, I wanted to say this to all of you’ “WELL DONE!”
I was so moved and proud with your casual, carefree and common sense comments. It makes me special to be Indonesian.
I was born a Muslim, as with my parents and grandparents. We have very liberal view on religion as we are from Kalimantan. Like most Dayak Muslims, we are non-practising. We eat pork, drink tuak, listen to rock musics, go to mosque, church and temple whenever we feel like it. We celebrated Gawai, the Eid, Christmas and every special occassion for the sake of celebrating. I am sure Allah will forgive us, as what we did was far less evil to what the Arabs did to our Indonesian sisters in the middle East.
We are Indonesians, we are special. Our cultural heritage and traditions are far more superior and refined than the Arabs. We do not have history of stoning, killing, robbing and mass raping. No religion can get a good grip as we are proud of our cultural heritage. In Kalimantan, we completely rejected Islam, Christianity and Buddhism. We do not label our fellow countrymen according to their beliefs, otherwise we will be partitioning our fellow Dayaks, Papuans and Timorese. We definitely do not want shariah law imposed in a multi-cultural and multi-religious country. The Egyptian judge is entitled to his own opinion, and they can subjugate their women for all I care. Our women are too good to be treated like dirt. They are educated and smart.
Don’t worry about Hassan. He is cancer cell to our society. I doubt he is even Indonesian. If Saudi Arabia and Indonesia go to war tommorrow, no reward for guessing who he will side with. He makes a good mujaheddin fighter for the Arabs.
Oppose Shariah Law at any cost. I am with you ALL.
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Parvita says:
Aluang and all,
I wouldn’t say Hassan is a cancer or anything, I think we should respect his belief, as we want our beliefs to be respected. He might not be able to defend his opinion at the moment, which is understandable if you received most of your opinion steered by the community and heritage: you don’t question it. Some of us wants to seek the truth and look for it and find out lots of things running in our neighbourhood that are not even told in the Qur’an.
I just hope that what’s going on in Egypt is not going to be copied in Indonesia.
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Parvita, I respect his beliefs which are clearly different to mine when it comes to women’s welfare. All I want is that he provides a good example on the ‘goodness’ of sharia implementation on women. Ok, doesnt have to be Hassan, can anyone? I just want to broaden my views and get a different perspective on the topic.
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pj_bali says:
I guess this means that they will be installing a womens’ bathroom in the courthouse in Cario. Maybe is a good thing that judges are appointed by the government and not by judges.
Cheers
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Aluang anak Bayang Said:
Don’t worry about Hassan. He is cancer cell to our society.
Hassan himself, is not actually a cancer cell, unfortunately what he believes in, is. If it is allowed to be implemented there will be no stopping it, all argument and reason will be suppressed as it is in places like Saudi Arabia.
I feel we have already had enough of being dictated to over the years, and agree with you completely that Sharia needs to be stopped in its tracks, before it spreads and grows, and destroys the body of Indonesia before we get a real chance to proove ourselves as a nation.
Unfortunately most Muslims here have been told that Sharia is the answer to their dreams, but most of them when asked cannot even tell you what it means in reality, they have no idea other than what they are told and when shown examples of Sharia implementation around the world they will say that is not the kind of Sharia they mean. They cannot tell you exactly what kind they do mean, they just have no idea and are regurgitating what they have been told at friday prayers!
Peace
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1ndra says:
Example: Point to me one ayat that says paying 2.5% of your belonging (is it the total money you have in the bank, those just not being used or the total money, which?) is in the Qur’an. It is sharia. It is good, giving to the poor. But it’s not written in the Qur’an.
There never in Quran say how much is it should be deducted, thats why we need hadith. (I’m not sure people who hate hadith ever pay zakat, if they do, what amount they use, if 2.5% then they use hadith).
So Sholat is shariah. To me.
Then you don’t support sharia because you dont want to shalat? A good joke.
I doubt you ever read Quran as shalat stated is in early page, 2:3.
Not counting the others who scattered in pages.Men or women, applies the same.
Same and different model thus different function.
As logical view, why men have p and women have v?
If they’re totally same function, why different?
Not to mention the muscle power. If you could lift a 30 kg with one hand, then let me know.
About brain, hmmm, I ever heard a controversial research that says women is different.As human, men and women have equal rights. But still different in model and function.
If you said the same, I challenge you to do some men’s work.
As a starter I need you to carry my job as a technician. I need you to reroute a house cabling. Don’t worry some electroshocks won’t bring you fatality, I’m still here after all.
I doubt women would ruin their skin and added some heavy scars like mine.
About office work, cmon, it’s an easy soft work, everyone could do that.
Gender isn’t here. Everyone has rights and capabilities, in some.We celebrated Gawai, the Eid, Christmas and every special occassion for the sake of celebrating. I am sure Allah will forgive us, as what we did was far less evil to what the Arabs did to our Indonesian sisters in the middle East.
Then you’re not a Muslim, just a ktp.
Muslim never celebrate other religions holiday as this could be considered as syirik.
And you say you’re sure that Allah will forgive you?
Only when you’re repent.And people who called their fellow as cancer are cancer theirselves.
And if they’re not asking for forgiveness then they’re not worth as Muslims at all.Oh, I forget, you said
“In Kalimantan, we completely rejected Islam, Christianity and Buddhism.”
I’m sorry for saying Muslim ktp.
If you’re rejecting religions then you dont know anything about them, so stop talking in religions stuff as your next talk is bs.
We do not have history of stoning, killing, robbing and mass raping.
You should be live in mountains with a few friends, do you? Funny. :lol
O, be careful, I hear in Kalimantan there’s a second world largest satanic church exist.
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1ndra said:
There never in Quran say how much is it should be deducted, thats why we need hadith. (I’m not sure people who hate hadith ever pay zakat, if they do, what amount they use, if 2.5% then they use hadith).
Despite Allah saying that His Book is complete, perfect and fully detailed? That sounds to me as if you are calling Allah a liar?
If Allah had so wished he could have clearly stated 2.5% one time a year as you probably pay it, but the fact of the matter is that he didn’t, he enjoins charity on all who can afford it whenever they can afford it!
“And spend something out of the substance which We have bestowed on you, before Death should come to any of you and he should say, “O my Lord! Why didst Thou not give me respite for a little while? I should then have given in charity, and I should have been one of the doers of good.” But to no soul will Allah grant respite when the time appointed has come; and Allah is well-acquainted with that ye do.” 63:11
I doubt you ever read Quran as shalat stated is in early page, 2:3.
Not counting the others who scattered in pages.I think it is you who is not reading your Quran, but following the teachings of men instead.
Do you not see that God is glorified by all those who are in the heavens and the earth, even the birds with their wings outspread? Each of them knows its prayer and its praise, and God does know what they do. 24:41
Unless you of course have become Allah’s Judge on Earth, and know better than him? But what would you use to judge, your manmade innovations again?
I doubt women would ruin their skin and added some heavy scars like mine”¦
I don’t know about Ihaknt as I don’t know her, but I would without doubt say that she would beat you hands down on any task requiring mental agility and intelligence. I have been truely blessed by Allah to have worked all over the world, I have seen women doing any task that a man is capable of in the workplace, from straighforward office work, to nuclear physics, and from nursing to welding and ship construction, I have seen women in Europe and the Ex Soviet Union who would undoubtedly take you down with one punch if you repeated such a stupid statement to them as you made above.
Muslim never celebrate other religions holiday as this could be considered as syirik.
But so many Muslims celebrate Mawlid an-Nabi, with a holiday and special prayers don’t they? Despite Allah saying:
“Say: We Believe in God and what has been revealed to us, and what was revealed to Abraham and Ishmael and Isaac and Jacob and the tribes, and what was given to Moses and Jesus and to the prophets from their Lord; we do not make any distinction between any of them, and to Him (God) do we wholly give ourselves.” 3:84
So if we are not to make any special distinctions between them why should people not be free to celebrate Allah’s other Prophets? They are all Allah’s Prophets are they not, or is this a case of glorifying Prophet Mohammed?
If you’re rejecting religions then you dont know anything about them, so stop talking in religions stuff as your next talk is bs.
I don’t really know who does and doesn’t know about religion, at least the one’e given to us in Torah, Psalms, Injeel, and Al Quran, seems to me that yours comes mainly from Sunnah and Hadith, the manmade instruction book for those who reject Allah’s complete, perfect and fully detailed, book.
Muslim never celebrate other religions holiday as this could be considered as syirik.
Shirk :
Associating partners with Allah. Shirk can also encompase any object that a person may hold in regard higher than Allah. It is the most severe of sins and will not be forgiven.Something to remember there 1ndra. Your rejection of Allah’s Book with Sunnah and Hadith makes you a commiter of Shirk, does it not? Better you start thinking hard, and asking for forgiveness.
Better to follow the Word of Allah than the words of men!
Peace
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Joy says:
Hi Indra,
You said :
I doubt women would ruin their skin and added some heavy scars like mine.
Try giving birth, Indra.
Joy
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Hassan says:
ihaknt: Ah yes, I’m sorry for taking way too long to respond to your previous comments. It’s just that I tend to open the articles under the heading ‘General News’ more often, and rarely open the ones under ‘Business’ or ‘World’. So, please excuse my belated response.
“All I want is that he provides a good example on the ‘goodness’ of sharia implementation on women. Ok, doesnt have to be Hassan, can anyone? I just want to broaden my views and get a different perspective on the topic.”
I have to admit, my knowledge regarding the topic of ‘women’s right in Islam, or under Sharia’ is very limited and isn’t up to scratch. Not because I didn’t respect women or anything (I respect them very much), it’s more of a gender bias because as a man I tend to read more about things that concern men.
So, I would like to copy-paste some links I had provided on another thread that I felt relevant to the issues at hand, to enhance our mutual knowledge.
-The status of women in Islam,
http://www.themodernreligion.com/women/w_status_gen_ques.htm-Women roles according to Islamic laws, http://www.themodernreligion.com/women/w_roles_ideals.htm
-General issues of women in Islam,
http://www.themodernreligion.com/w_main.htmLet’s talk again after you have the time to read those resources. Cheers.
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Then you’re not a Muslim, just a ktp.
Muslim never celebrate other religions holiday as this could be considered as syirik.
And you say you’re sure that Allah will forgive you?
Only when you’re repent.If Allah is so intolerant of syirik, He is only a lesser God and not worthy of recognition. What is the logic when it is possible for a child rapist and mass murderer to be served with virgins in his kingdom, on the other hand, a philanthropic syirik celebrating other festive days will be roasted in hell. Think about it. This is why all Islamic countries are backward worshipping a doubtful deity like Allah.
And people who called their fellow as cancer are cancer theirselves.
The majority of Indonesian Muslims do not know anything beyond the 5 pillars of Islam. Only a fracton of the priviledged few with suffice education and access to the info highway on the net are able to learn more about our handed down religion. Many were in shock to find what their beloved Mohammad had done and are leaving Islam. Muslim SAP like you and Hassan are in that priviledged few and are vigorously defending Islam, instead of trying to help our nation progress. Ain’t I right to say Islamic cancer had infitrated your brain? If you are an Arab, Arab nationalism may have overwhelmed your judgement and you could be excused, but if you are an Indonesian, shame on you for trying to Arabanise us.
And if they’re not asking for forgiveness then they’re not worth as Muslims at all.
You are a deadbeat. Anyone of Javanese descent who did not fill in their religion detail would have ISLAM stamped on their identification paperworks. Me being a pious Muslim or not is none of your business. At least I am a gentleman with Indonesian pride.
I’m sorry for saying Muslim ktp.
You don’t have to be sorry when you are not sincere. It makes you a hypocrite.
If you’re rejecting religions then you dont know anything about them, so stop talking in religions stuff as your next talk is bs.
This is so Islamic. Non-Muslim or ex-Muslim’s view are not worthy when they rejected Islam. Haven’t you asked yourself why ex-Muslim leave Islam? Maybe they can’t stand the flithy languages, maybe they were alarmed by the fact that it is permissible for a 54 years old Muslim man to marrying a 6 years old girl, or maybe they puke on the part where it is legally to marry your daughter-in-law, the lists go on. You call this bs, I call it real Islam! If you are a real Muslim, I am sure you can justify them. I am also pretty sure our forumates would like to hear what you have to say. If you can’t, read on our proud history and compare our civilised heritage to that of the Arabs. They treat their women like sex object, we respect our women.
You should be live in mountains with a few friends, do you? Funny. :lol
The Kalimantan Dayaks were notorious headhunters, but they didn’t do it in the name of any God. That was their past, they moved on with time. You must still be trapped in your Islamic cocoon.
O, be careful, I hear in Kalimantan there’s a second world largest satanic church exist.
See how intolerant Muslims are. They think theirs religion is the one true religion. When the Dayaks combine Christianity with animism, they are minding their own business and not harming anyone. They are not sacrificing our Indonesian women and children to Arab men for sex like what you are doing. Your nosey buggar Muslim SAP brothers called them satanic worshippers. I don’t think they even give a damn. Try to pull that church down and they will start reviving their headhunter instinct.
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1ndra shame on you to say that degrading thing about women.
I doubt women would ruin their skin and added some heavy scars like mine.
You disrespected your mother AND many mothers for saying this. I dare you to tell her what you said. What you should’ve done is to be more careful in your job if you do have a physically demanding work! Not then degrade women in comparison. There are women out there who build roads and do hard work beyond imagination and still get paid less if even get paid at all! Yes I am not one of them but I highly respect what they do! And for the Islam KTP comment, pah! Do better than that dude, just because you practice doesnt guarantee you’re a better person in the INSIDE!
MK, thank you for the compliment.
Hassan, I am not buying your links. They still don’t give a good example how sharia benefits women. Wasted my time. I need proof. A tangible proof, that goes beyond any written theories. I guess you need to do more research for me please. If you yourself admitted that your knowledge is limited in this field then instead of arguing with me, you should do more research and we can discuss this and hopefully reach an understanding. Now, you’re the man, the sex that God has given these so-called amazing abilities, so please show it to me what you can example you can provide.
But nonetheless I am glad you admitted you respected women, but I hope it also applies in your daily life not just something you write about.
Hassan I forgot to add, the links you gave me was Qur’an related. I need the sharia related. Thanks again for your help.
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Ihaknt: “Hassan I forgot to add, the links you gave me was Qur’an related. I need the sharia related. Thanks again for your help.”
If you open one of the links, which is this one : http://www.themodernreligion.com/women/w_roles_ideals.htm
the subject of the article is “Ideals and role models for women in Qur’an, Hadith and Sirah”It means that the article uses Quran, Hadith, and Sirah as the sources. The Quran, Hadith, and Sirah are actually the basis of the Sharia. It seems you had read too much of Muhammed Khafi’s writings and actually believed his every words. No Ihaknt, Sharia is not equal to the Hadith, or any man made laws. Sharia was based on the Quran, along with the Hadith and Sirah.
But anyway, I’ll give you updates and the links you requested as soon as I have more resources.
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Hassan Said:
Sharia was based on the Quran, along with the Hadith and Sirah.
I have given you many examples of Sharia being contradictory to Al Quran, you say that Hadith cannot supercede Al Quran but in actual fact it does in many, many ways. Either you have very little knowledge of Sharia or you accept the fact that it has taken precedent over Al Quran, which is it?
Peace
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Dear Ihaknt,
A lecturer was fired for recommending ‘Merry Christmas’ when we have verses like “There is no compulsion in Islam” and “To you your religion, to me mine”.
Bearing that in mind, it is recommendable that you read first hand account from women living under Shariah Law. A good read is:
http://www.homa.org/Details.asp?ContentID=2137353979&TOCID=2083225413 -
Again, Khafi, that depends on your interpretations. If you consider giving explainations which the Quran did not give in details, while the explanations didn’t contradict the Quran as an act of superceeding then it’s up to you.
Indeed the Quran is complete and fully detailed, but it’s not a step by step instruction manual explaining every minute detail of our every day lives for all generations, it is after all a book of sign.
It is complete and fully detail in it’s characteristic as a book of sign, and it will fulfill it’s purpose for all the ages. The Hadith then elaborates the rest.
As for what you will believe, it’s up to you. 🙂
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Hassan,
If Allah wanted us to be fully programmed as a dumb automaton or zombies by using Hadith, He would have made us that way. However He gave some of us intelligence, intellect and the ability to reason, He gave us free will to sort out the good from the bad. He clearly states that He doesn’t run out of words, and that if all the oceans were ink He could have used them up and the same again! What He gave is in Al Quran was what He wanted us to have. Its a competition Hassan, to sort the dumb followers from the people with ability to reason, can’t you see that? All of life is a test !
Peace
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Hassan as I said I only want to see a positive good example what the Sharia implementation has on women. Not really looking for women roles, I only need to use my common sense to know that. Now also answer me why you have to be condescending and ASSUME things? That’s very arrogant Hassan. I am just being specific, when i want to see A I want to see A. It’s got nothing to do with Khafi’s posts at all. Anyway thanks and I will await your respond.
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Hassan,
When you cannot even persuade one moslem to accept Sharia, how can you think that Sharia will be even accepted for the whole of moslem population. This has shown that Sharia itself is not perfect and should not be considered to be implemented anywhere.
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Dimp, fortunately for me and some others, we are able to think for ourselves and question about whatever put in front of us especially if it looks suss. But sharia is counting on people who are unable to do so by inducing fear. If sharia was not made by men and for men, to justify their desires and actions, the good example of its implementation on women would be widely available. But as our informer Hassan is trying his best to convince us, we just wait until he comes up with his research finding. I am still open for suggestion and may even reconsider things. Although there’s an enormous doubt for the latter. We’ll see. Sabar.
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Hi ihaknt,
But sharia is counting on people who are unable to do so by inducing fear.
As well as the mentalilty of “bebek” for some Indonesians. They just follow whatever the leader says without asking questions. Especially religious leaders where they think they will go to ‘heaven’ for following their instructions.
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Well Dimp if some pervert is diiming-imingin 72 virgins then I’d be too. heheheh…I know I know, the 72 virgins is a myth, misunderstanding, bla bla bla.
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AMAZING! I’M STUNNED!
Indeed the Quran is complete and fully detailed, but it’s not a step by step instruction manual explaining every minute detail of our every day lives for all generations, it is after all a book of sign.
Excuse me, which part of Qur’an is not clear to you that needed to be explained by other book?
4. dan mereka yang beriman kepada Kitab (Al Quran) yang telah diturunkan kepadamu dan Kitab-kitab yang telah diturunkan sebelummu, serta mereka yakin akan adanya (kehidupan) akhirat. 2:4
Before, not after. Hassan, this verse is only the beginning of the lesson to be a person with faith, and you have denied it. But…
2:6. Sesungguhnya orang-orang kafir, sama saja bagi mereka, kamu beri peringatan atau tidak kamu beri peringatan, mereka tidak juga akan beriman. 2:7. Allah telah mengunci-mati hati dan pendengaran mereka, dan penglihatan mereka ditutup. Dan bagi mereka siksa yang amat berat.
(MK, I don’t have the English translation, maybe you can provide? Thanks).
Why are we even having this discussion, when people don’t want to listen, or open their mind? This is what I do not understand, it is so clear in the Qur’an, yet people still can’t see? Are they blind? Illness in their heart and mind? I’m afraid we are selling Allah’s teaching for cheap price here.
Check my blog, http://parvita.wordpress.com/, I put my thoughts on why people still deny that Qur’an is the basis of Islam, and we should have faith to Qur’an and the previous teachings (Torah, Zabur, Bible).
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At your service my lady:
And who believe in that which is revealed unto thee (Muhammad) and that which was revealed before thee, and are certain of the Hereafter. 2:4
As for the Disbelievers, Whether thou warn them or thou warn them not it is all one for them; they believe not.
Allah hath sealed their hearing and their hearts, and on their eyes there is a covering. Theirs will be an awful doom. 2:6-7Peace
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Dimp: “When you cannot even persuade one moslem to accept Sharia, how can you think that Sharia will be even accepted for the whole of moslem population.”
First of all, the difference between me and Khafi in religious matters might somewhat resembles the difference between a Protestant and a Catholic. I have never ever have the slightest imagination that he should believe in Hadith and Sharia, or in what we (the mainstream Muslims) believed in. Unfortunately, Mohammed Khafi didn’t share my sentiment and always tried to push his views and judged that the believers o Hadith are actually committing Shirk.
Secondly, I never ever meant to persuade anyone to accept Sharia. The push for Sharia is an increasing phenomenon in Indonesia, I am just saying that I supported it. What’s wrong with that? A Muslim that supports Sharia is a normal thing. Can anyone blame you for supporting Christianization, for example?
Mohammed Khafi and Parvita: You guys came from the same camp, of course you support each other’s view. The fact that both of you guys are liberals, well I have nothing more to say about it.
Comment on “Women Judges”.
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Hi MK,
I got what you meant, just want to emphasize what you meant earlier.
BTW, just wish I had more time to read more of your comment on some other topics.