Bethel Church, Bandung
Feb 12th, 2007, in News, by PatungA Christian group in Bandung is forced to stop services.
Dozens of people in the Warung Satangkal area of Majalaya, Bandung, claiming to belong to a group called the Anti-Apostasy Movement of the Indonesian Ulema Congregation Forum, demonstrated in front of a house belonging to a Christian family on the 11th, says the Jakarta Post, demanding that it no longer be used for religious services.
Those attending the church services voluntarily left the house and no violence occurred.
Omay Komarudin, head of the Warung Satangkal neighbourhood unit, said the rally was held because local residents were bothered by the religious services being held once a week in the house, for the last three years. What was worse, said Omay, the house-church was near a mosque.
Omay said that local people had often asked the house’s owner to stop the services, and they had eventually sent a letter to the management of the Majalaya chapter of the Indonesian Bethel Church.
But our letter was not heeded. We, as a Muslim majority here, are greatly disturbed. On Saturday night (10th), one of their representatives visited my house, and he was drunk and criticized our protest letter.
Some people reportedly got angry over this incident and they gathered at 7 a.m. on the 11th in front of the house of Ayun Sobandi, who is the representative of the church. Alner, another church representative, decided to stop the church service after seeing the mob.
We’re aware that this church has no permit so I’ve taken the initiative to stop it and disperse. It’s really difficult to process licenses for the construction of churches, especially permits from nearby figures and other local noted figures (as required by the existing law).
Alner signed a statement, and promised not to hold religious activities in the house until a license was issued by the Religious Affairs Ministry. Alner said around 100 churchgoers in Majalaya routinely worshipped at Ayun’s house. Three families in the vicinity became members of the church communion, while others came from surrounding areas in Majalaya.
Alner said they converted the house into a church because they did not have a church which was free from disturbances.
We haven’t had a license, but we frequently consult with local officials, including the police. And Mr Ayun is a local boy who has lived here since 1986.
79 Comments on “Bethel Church, Bandung”
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Well, if shalat is a ‘wajib’ thing and one will commit a sin if they don’t do it, here is my three points:
1. A true Muslim should be able to do their responsibility regardless if there is sound from the speaker or not. I guess, through discipline, it can be accomplished.
2. I wonder how many people that hear that sound and still don’t care about it. I mean, for crying out loud, a lot of my friends just called themselves as ‘Muslim’, but they dont practise what they should do, but when talking about this matter, they talk how it is very important and how sinful it will be when you miss it. Sounds to me like an English word with 3 syllables and start with H.
3. If it is a sin, why do they have double standard? What if you do other sin like lying, or maybe killing or hating other people, or discrediting your own religion, at the same time you practise your shalat? Is that acceptable in the eye of God?
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Grace and Mercy says:
I love IHnAKnT.
🙂
I second that.
Because that was Adzan, a call for shalat, and shalat is wajib and sinned if failed to do that. If the Adzan is ‘muted’ and no one hear, its a sin too.
There seem to be always be an excuse for thy action doesn’t it?
it’s just the munafikness that now seems to be the sole requirement to be a ‘good’ Muslim.
It is indeed. I recall a former House Representative who was caught in adultery with a dangdut singer, instead of admitting wrong doing claimed that he and his family has been “di zolimi” by the media and public scrutiny.
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Btw guys, don’t you guys think that we need to form a counter-movement for those organization? I am so tired that our voice is never heard out there, we should form like a organization to piss them off, like every time they demonstrate, we will show up and counter their opinion. I guess that what make a true democracy.
Like I was reading about the valentine demostration, and how I would love to show up there and bring banner to counter them. That would just like kicking their teeth.
But again, I am afraid that they will lynch me and throw stone at me till I am dead. Then I will remembered as provocator, enemy of democracy and pro western culture, bla bla bla. What ever they will label me.
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Ihaknt says:
Orgindo, I bow myself to you. Hats off. Agree on all points, although I can’t work out what the word is, is it rude? :D. If not, please share.
One’s faith is not strong enough that one needs constant reminder and guidance as to not to commit sins. YAWN! And if one doesn’t get it, somehow it’s someone else’s fault.
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well, thats call Hypocrite… 3 syllables : HY – PO – CRITE.
LOL
for some it is offensive, for me, it is just a useful word. 😉 -
D’oh! Of course!! I think only offensive if the offender is a hypocrite him/herself heehhehe. Yep, simple, useful AND appropriate.
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dont you guys think that we need to form a counter-movement for those organization?
A counter-movement face a big possibility of being counter-productive though. We can’t fight fire with fire. We extinguish fire by spraying them with water.
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1ndra says:
Really? Then is it okay to have the churches toll their bells every hour like they used to do in Europe centuries ago?
I don’t know what the bell means, a one hour clock or else or is it mean a call for worship like adzan do?
1. A true Muslim should be able to do their responsibility regardless if there is sound from the speaker or not. I guess, through discipline, it can be accomplished.
If you’re working, are you mounting a watch in your glasses? Or maybe you just covered it with a bunch of papers.
If you’re a walking watch and always know what time is it, then good for you, its a rare ability.2. I wonder how many people that hear that sound and still dont care about it. I mean, for crying out loud, a lot of my friends just called themselves as ‘Muslim’, but they dont practise what they should do, but when talking about this matter, they talk how it is very important and how sinful it will be when you miss it. SOunds to me like an English word with 3 syllables and start with H.
Well then why the people in the world bought alarm thingy only to shut it off when it rang in the morning and back to sleep and then cursing in the street because you missed a morning office meeting? Hy po crite?
3. If it is a sin, why do they have double standard? What if you do other sin like lying, or maybe killing or hating other people, or discrediting your own religion, at the same time you practise your shalat? Is that acceptable in the eye of God?
Are you talking the same about US and other hypocrites?
There seem to be always be an excuse for thy action doesn’t it?
Y E S.
dont you guys think that we need to form a counter-movement for those organization? I am so tired that our voice is never heard out there, we should form like a organization to piss them off, like every time they demonstrate, we will show up and counter their opinion. I guess that what make a true democracy.
Dont just talk, do it.
Like i was reading about the valentine demostration, and how i would love to show up there and bring banner to counter them. that would just like kicking their teeth.
It never kick their teeth. We know what real valentine means. And if you do, you’ll kick your teeth off.
I think only offensive if the offender is a hypocrite him/herself heehhehe. Yep, simple, useful AND appropriate.
We already know it. 😉
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Are you talking the same about US and other hypocrites?
Well, US is a hypocrite country, no doubt about it. So, why join them? Why say that they are of pig, while those people are still doing what US people do? If Islam people call them pig just because of what they do, aren’t they refering to themselves?
Well then why the people in the world bought alarm thingy only to shut it off when it rang in the morning and back to sleep and then cursing in the street because you missed a morning office meeting? Hy po crite?
This is called religion sensitivity issues. When you bring religion into the equation, it changes the result. People feel different when they steal money from mosque, and when they steal money from a bank. When they feel nothing, they are called immoral. Don’t just give any analogy here.
It never kick their teeth. We know what real valentine means. And if you do, you’ll kick your teeth off.
Can you make it clearer? what is the real valentine? I wonder if your definition is right? can you clarify? Because what i read in the news, they are not exhibiting any understanding about those valentine issue.
If you’re working, are you mounting a watch in your glasses? Or maybe you just covered it with a bunch of papers.
If you’re a walking watch and always know what time is it, then good for you, its a rare ability.I already say that if those religion practices are important to a person, then he would be able to remind himself, there is no need to rely on big speaker announcement. It is like if you cannot see the clock in the tower, you protest that the clock tower is too small, then you demand that the clock tower to be renovated 10 times bigger. Isn’t that simpler if you just wear a pair glasses?
Peace
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Valentine’s day = opportunity to yank up the price and time to rip people off. It may have been different back in the old days. But these days I’m annoyed by it because:
1. It’s hard to get into a restaurant.
2. Flowers are expensive.
3. It’s way over-rated!
4. It’s so not tolerant towards my believe. :p -
Haha, so true.
But for me, it is just a day to remind myself about those people whom I care, not necessarily lovers.
People may think valentine in a erotic way (some american do, but just a minor of them, the funny thing is to see how those student think valentine in a erotic way instead of taking the romantic essence of it. Isnt that such a small view of love?).
Love can mean much more than that.
Wait, how come the discussion become valentine? LOL -
Wait, how come the discussion become valentine? LOL
Orgindo…it’s just to lighten up the forum a bit. I’m just bummed I have to cook tonight. :D. Heheheh.
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Dimp says:
Damn, it is true that Valentine is too commercialised now. But so is Christmas, Lebaran, Chinese New Year, Easter…. you name it.
Back to the topic, regarding the closure of the church we should be aware that the church was operating without a license. So the real issue is, what does a church have to do to obtain this license? And if the church is operating without a license why the police or whoever is in charge did not do anything about it and it has to take the local (or outsiders) to take action.
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Dimp, maybe because the church was funded by the US. Sorry guys, I’m just a bit bored because I am sick and have to stay at home. I think the Americans wanted me to get sick.
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Hang on, I thought you work for the “government”.
I wonder what ever happened to our dear “friend”. He disappeared…. and it happened the same time that you have to go somewhere for your so called “holiday”.
It’s sorta make a lot of sense now.
Anyway, I blame the Indonesian government for this matter, SBY need to be more strict, at this point he talks but doesn’t act. He can start by cleaning his own backyard, first thing by making sure that the Perpu 37 is squashed, or suspended until we see the performance of the DPR. Then start making sure that his cabinets know what is going on in the country and will actually do something to make this country a better place, not only for them but for all Indonesian….. and while I am at it, I also wish for a unicorn to keep as my pet.
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I already say that if those religion practices are important to a person, then he would be able to remind himself, there is no need to rely on big speaker announcement. It is like if you cannot see the clock in the tower, you protest that the clock tower is too small, then you demand that the clock tower to be renovated 10 times bigger. Isn’t that simpler if you just wear a pair glasses?
Peace
Are you Muslim? No? Then lucky for you, you don’t have to remember the time, you just remember the day only.
Hey what time is it? 6 pm, well in some month the time for Maghrib is different, could be after 6 pm or before.
But I agree if those speakers set at max might disturb non-Muslim people.
Its called ‘technology advancement’, in the Rasulullah saw days there’s no speaker.
Maybe in the future, there might be some technology that only Muslim people could hear Adzan, who knows. 😀 -
susanto says:
1ndra: February 14th, 2007 at 6:40 pm
About the Adzan: Maybe Muslims should use the Hand Phone and SMS. 😉
Grace and Mercy Says: February 13th, 2007 at 9:57 am
I’m however, rather tickled by some of the comments posted here that are in the defensive mode:
i.e: “but church has no permits”, “but majorities always treat minorities bad”.
Someone said: How to deal with the tyranny of minorities and the dictatorship of majorities.
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Hi 1ndra,
I think we have the technology to make alarm clocks to remind Moslems when it is time to pray, if they are genuinely want to pray then they don’t need to be reminded.
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Someone said: How to deal with the tyranny of minorities and the dictatorschip of majorities
It is not about tyranny or anything, I think. What I’m really concerned about is the double standard of the law.
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sgn says:
I think we have the technology to make alarm clocks to remind Moslems when it is time to pray
Dimp, you are right.
http://www.surprise.com/personality/Muslim/framed_prayer_clock.cfm
Framed Prayer Clock
Prayer, Salaat or Namaaz, is the second of five pillars of Islam. Muslims pray five times a day and believe that when in prayer, every part of the body, mind, and spirit are joined in the worship of Allah. The framed prayer clock will serve as a commemoration and friendly reminder of the time reserved in each day for the Muslim recipients conversation with Allah. -
Hi sgn,
It doesn’t take a genius to figure out that it is easier to make alarm clocks to remind people. I think it is more confusing in Indo where the mosques are sometimes competing with their loudspeakers, and they don’t start at the same time.
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they don’t start at the same time.
Of course they should not. Indonesia has three time zones. 🙂
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Three time zone within the same RT?
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Hi 1ndra,
I think we have the technology to make alarm clocks to remind Moslems when it is time to pray, if they are genuinely want to pray then they don’t need to be reminded.
I know, I set my alarm at 3.30, far before adzan shubuh so I could do tahajud and fajar, but adzan is a must in Islam.
Three time zone within the same RT?
Every mosque has its own takmir and muazin, so be expected to hear ‘multi’ adzan. 🙂
And don’t make a comment like, hey why not using wifi/telephony instead so we could hear it in the same time not just like echoes. 🙂 -
Hi 1ndra,
Every mosque has its own takmir and muazin, so be expected to hear ‘multi’ adzan
I cannot imagine someone living in the middle of two mosque that has two different time of ‘adzan’, now there’s confusion.
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No confusion, everyone’s watch isn’t same.
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Hassan says:
Grace and Mercy: 1ndra said:
Because that was Adzan, a call for shalat, and shalat is wajib and sinned if failed to do that. If the Adzan is ‘muted’ and no one hear, its a sin too.
Your reply:
There seem to be always be an excuse for thy action doesn’t it?
I have a story: In the middle east, their public holidays are Thursdays and Fridays. A Christian had to skip work on Sundays in order to attend Church. His Boss asked why he kept missing work on Sundays. He said, I have to attend Church, it is a must in my religion. The ignorant Boss then said, ‘there seem to be always an excuse for thy action, doesn’t it?’
Practicing your religion isn’t an excuse, is it?
Ihaknt said:
it’s just the munafikness that now seems to be the sole requirement to be a ‘good’ Muslim.
Your reply:
It is indeed. I recall a former House Representative who was caught in adultery with a dangdut singer, instead of admitting wrong doing claimed that he and his family has been “di zolimi” by the media and public scrutiny.
Are you trying to generalize that a good Muslim is a hypocrite one? If not, then why the tone, and the implicit acknowledgment of that fact using the ‘former House Representative’ example?
You know, there had been a lot of sexual abuse cases in certain Churches in the U.S. lately. Can I generalize that perversion seems to be the sole requirement to be a ‘good’ priest in the U.S nowadays?
Ihaknt: If “munafikness” is the sole requirement to be a ‘good’ Muslim, then what is the requirement to be a good Muslim (in a serious sense), in your opinion? I need to know, because the answer to that question is important for all Muslims. And as far as I can remember, you are a Muslim, aren’t you?
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Well, the funny thing is in US, people did the same thing as what Muslim do here. But, at least over there, they are more respecting. Basically, when they do things they do to Muslim because of their fear (not a right thing). But a country with people who are so ignorant and depends on media for whatever they know, you cant expect much. But at least, you can still build mosque there as long as you dont bother the public freedom.
Here in Indonesia, it seems that there is no room for minority people, not just religion, but also racists. I think Muslim people are no better than Christian in term of racism. take a look at the crusade, it was bad history for Christian, and I think history just repeat itself now. But are we able to change? Yes, as a country if every start to stop looking at other’s people fault, start respecting other and start it in ourselves and community.
In time, any country can be a better country than US in term of respecting democracy and personal freedom.
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Hassan, yes I am a Muslim. And I guess, you didnt catch my sarcasm tone in the sentence.
As far as I know the Islam I was taught has always taught tolerance, love, compassion, understanding and forgiveness regardless of race, sex, religion, gender, etc. So while these people are telling churches what to do and that they make annoyance and inconveniences, but they don’t seem to see that they in turns also do the same, annoying the others. I have seen many deaths. In the end when you die, under the skin, everyone is the same. Blood, muscles and bone. You can’t even recognise whose skull belongs to who.
I’m just so over the fact that people don’t even try to look into themselves first. Another example of munafikness is a group whose every single member claims to be a good Muslim and defending Islam: FPI. They shout God’s name while they are ransacking, hitting other people, burning things because their believe is different to the people’s they are hurting. Now, I don’t associate my Allah with violence and fear in one’s eyes because they are being beaten up! God doesn’t need to be defended. God is omnipotent, the most supreme.
Now tell me, have you ever felt so angry with a person but then your mother would tell you, “it’s ok honey, biar tuhan yang bales, just forgive them, they just don’t know the right from wrong, they will get their own punishment from God when He decides it’s time.” My mum told me that a lot when I started feeling angry, despair, upset or sad towards other people. But it seems now that kind of simple teaching of forgiveness is not even taught at home nor schools. Instead many kids are now taught that Christians are bad, western culture is evil, bla bla bla, without a solid background arguement and reasoning. If asked, the teachers, parents or whatever will only say, “just because”. It doesn’t just happen in Indo. This happens anywhere in the world. So we have this new generation whose mind has already been occupied with superiority of their own kind and no other religion, race, etc is any better than theirs, therefore it must be fought. The Islam I know teaches me that differences are there to be embraced, enjoyed, celebrated. I mean, even Prophet Muhammad himself even fed the Jews. Until people actually stop planting the seed of hate in their youngs’ minds, the idea of world peace will be just IT, an idea, not a reality.
Now to answer your question yes I am a Muslim, I may not pray 5 times a day and eat bacon, But I love all my friends and family who happen to have different believes from mine, who come from a different race, and I don’t need to publicise or berkoar koar Allahu Akbar just so people know I defend my God. My God lives inside me and I believe in Him and His mighty power to do whatever He pleases. I do still feel hate in me, but I am only human and I don’t then just blame things on other people, and I try my best to hold my anger when I can. I just think what my mum would tell me. A good Muslim in my view is one who is wise, able to hold his anger and emotion while time is rough, step out of the box, look at things from the outside and a different angle, think with a cold head and be fair with the decision, and able to come up with a win-win solution. But I know that’s too much to ask.
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Nuraini keep wishing, it may well come true one day. I have also seen in ‘kafir’ countries, Muslims are treated fairly (in most occasions). Don’t worry lah, it’s just the munafikness that now seems to be the sole requirement to be a ‘good’ Muslim.