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5:17 pm
November 28, 2009
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valthoris
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Post edited 10:17 am – November 28, 2009 by valthoris
Hi all
This questiosn is mostly for girls but guys opinion is welcome 
I'am going out with an indonesian girl for few years now (yeah bule can go out with indonesian gilrs for longer than 3months) and I had to move out from indonesia for my work. I asked her to come with me and she said yes.
Now it's been 3months and she finally told me her parents are forbidding her to move abroad because we are not married (she is 25). While we awere together they were ok with our relationship but now I think it was pseudo tolerance.
Is it a normal attitude to follow strictly what your parents are saying or do you think it is just a cover because she doesn't want to move or continue our relationship?
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3:08 pm
November 29, 2009
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bs
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| Santri | posts 13 | |
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My inlaws are quite liberal, but my wife and I decided to get married beforehand too. Of course also because we both wanted too, but unlike with us bule, life in Indonesia is different in many ways.
If you are both in Indonesia and she is still officially living with her parents (even though she might might staying elsewhere 80% of the time), that's accepted. However if she moves in with you in a way that is difficult to deny (like in another country), the neighborhood and extended family will start to interfere: "shame on you, letting your daughter move in with a guy before marriage".
In the West you might tell your neighbors to go f*ck themselves (or maybe something more polite but the idea is you can). If you're ever in need you'll report to welfare or other government run social support. In Indonesia you only have your neighbors and extended family to turn to in times of need. If you pissed them off, who will feed you?
Although your girl is coming with you, her family probably stays behind. Ask her about this, it might be a large contributor to your problem.
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10:08 pm
December 1, 2009
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Equalist
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| Abangan | posts 3 | |
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The general rule is this:
If parents choose spouses, the marriage is happier.
If we compile statistics, the trend will be clear. If young people choose spouses, they will be condemned to many broken relationships or they will have no marriage at all.
Not everyone should have right to have a driver's licence, not everyone should have right to launch nuclear missiles.
This is where private rights end, because the consequences of mistakes are bad for the society. The western world is going to social destruction because of no parental authority, mostly fueled by feminist heterophobia.
Normal families are now a rarity in the United States and Europe.
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1:57 am
December 2, 2009
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bs
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| Santri | posts 13 | |
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"Not everyone should have right to"
That's very equal of you.
Also, correlation does not imply causation. Check this:
There used to be no cellphones, and people rarely divorced. Now there are cellphones everywhere and people divorce all the time.
Lasty I'd like to suggest this newspaper article:
Divorce rate up tenfold
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8:03 am
December 3, 2009
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j
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| Abangan | posts 5 | |
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Post edited 1:18 am – December 3, 2009 by j
It's normal if Indonesian women are obliged the make the parents happy. The role of parents here are more dominant than in western world, and the religion put the parents in a high position that they have the right to tell the children what to do.
Even with the married children…
A good example is with the celebrity Julia Perez. She is financially independent, once married, considered an adult (she must be over 30). I read in a gossip tabloid once her Mom didn't let her marrying her argentinian bf, because the Mom had a trauma having a relationship with a soccer player (her ex husband/Julia's father was a soccer player).
With that lame reason, Julia said she would never get married without her Mom's permission.
Lots of my friends broke up with their bfs because the parents aren't keen on the bfs.
My personal experience, I didn't speak to my parents for a long time because they didn't approve my ex bf. The choice was choosing either the parents/family or the bf. When it happened I was over 20 and didn't live at my parents house anymore, and financially independent.
Oh… and it's not only about who will feed us when we're in needs. The thought of being a not 'filial' (is it the word for a 'good' child?) daugher is unbearable. We were accustomed to "the parents are your visible god".
I think
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1:37 pm
December 3, 2009
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bs
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| Santri | posts 13 | |
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Exactly what religion are you reffering too? In Islam everybody is supposed to be equal. The whole hierarchy thing in Indonesia once came along with hindu influence form India to Java (the caste system).
And there are many exceptions, even at high levels. Did Megawati, as a female president, turn to her husband for advice on every decision she made?
How much someone obeys ones parents depends on the person and the particular place he or she is coming from (village or city). This has nothing to do with religion anymore.
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4:57 pm
December 3, 2009
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j
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| Abangan | posts 5 | |
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Post edited 9:59 am – December 3, 2009 by j
As I'm not a muslim, I can't tell about Islam, I was thinking about me when writing about it actually. I don't think it is the fault of the religion tho. I think it is the people who interpret things in the religion and abuse them by using them to get more power at some certain condition in everyday life. I'm trying not to talk too much about religion here, but for example, some parents will use their religion to scare children in order to make them doing something. Like mine always tell us that it's a big sin for children not to oblige their parents.
When I say normal, I mean it happens. Not rarely. You'll find it everywhere in this country. Of course there will be many exceptions and vary in level of obligation by the children and/or how strong the parents try to tempt the children to do as told… It is one reason I heard quite often when there were stories about elopment, forced-marriage, late-marriage, abandoned by the family and some sorts.
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10:44 pm
December 3, 2009
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browser
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| New Member | posts 2 | |
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I am not a woman, but I'll give my opinion on this thread :D
In Indonesia, family relationship really matters. That is why a retirement house is very uncommon here. Parents expected their kids to taking care of them when they're getting old, and basically, a kid will never be an "adult" in terms of making big decisions, such as marriage, since the family (parents) expected their opinion to be heard (read: obey)
So yeah, it is a normal attitude of her to strictly follow what her parents are saying. It is a culture, and bigger chance she grew up seeing this everywhere around her ( "25yo kids" following their parents order)
But, probably this is about another thing. As you mentioned above, she is 25yo, and a girl wants a commitment. From what I've seen around the world, although I never been to so many places, it's the same thing. That's why marriage is a 10 billion a year industry in USA.
So, probably the scenario is like this (in my head):
They (she and her parents) had a sit down, she told them about this, they told her that you guys should be married first. Maybe it is not even an order, just a suggestion. But later, she use these to get you to marry her.
I probably sounds like a bad guy here, but to be honest, I don't blame her or anything. That is just her being a woman.
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9:31 am
December 4, 2009
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valthoris
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Thanks for your answers
There is a thing I didn't mention because I don't want to start an enraged conversation but we are actually fiancee. The thing is that we can't get married because of religion (she is muslim and I'm catholic). We were talking about getting married once moved abroad
Even if the parents acepted it at that time, I feel like they suck it up because I was still around but now…
Bs: I didn't thought about the community thing but it is an interesting opinion.
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10:06 am
December 4, 2009
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donny
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| Santri | posts 19 | |
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valthoris
for me, the answer is simple …
get married first, then take her with you … 
in that way, her parents will see that you're being serious … and usually you can melt their heart with a grandchildren later
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10:54 am
December 4, 2009
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valthoris
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well its a catch22 because we can't get married in indonesia and her parents doesn't want to let her go abroad….
Going back for holidays to indonesia in march for now it will be phone and msn  just hope it's not gonna turn bad until then
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11:28 am
December 4, 2009
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donny
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| Santri | posts 19 | |
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in that case … it's a bit more difficult, my friend … but don't give up yet
love will find a way …
anyhow, how about her ? does she willing to go with you and "abandon" her parents ?
if so, you can get married in some other countries / exotic cities … I recommend Las Vegas …
produce a very nice "Indo" baby and go visit your father & mother in law couple times / year to melt their heart
or you can "prentend" to be muslim and married in that … and back to your religion afterwards (it's the paper that you need, right?)
someone have to sacrifice something if you want to keep this going
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4:22 pm
December 4, 2009
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niceguy
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Valthoris I suggest you find another woman.
Do not be selfish and pursue this relationship.
There are plenty of people who's gonna be upset because of this.
Her parent most likely do not want to see their children live with you without marriage.
She will have to live with the constant reminder that her family do not approve with what she will be doing. Imagine if your own parent disown you because you marry someone. Are you prepared to do that if your own relationship with your parent is in line? I dont think so. So why do you ask some one, even a woman, to do it?
Leave her for her own sake.
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5:18 pm
December 4, 2009
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valthoris
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well my question was not about what i should do is more about the relationship with parents.
also your agumentation is not clear. as I said above we are fiancee and want to marry but can't marry in indonesia unless one of us change religion (She won't do it and I won't do it because of my first name even if i do change no one will believe it)
The point is that her feedback is that she wants to move and get married but her parents are not keen to let her go wihtout being married so it is a catch 22.
If her decision was not to getting married I will respect it and will be sad but as of now this is not the situation
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10:59 am
December 6, 2009
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dps_gurl
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| Santri | posts 26 | |
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Hi just wanted to clear this up.
I won't do it because of my first name even if i do change no one will believe it
it doesnt matter if you dont change name. A conversion to Islam doesnt require name changing unless if your name has a bad/evil meaning. And it dont matter if nobody would buy it, as long as you can say shahadah and the paper validates it.
and yes parents´ role and blessing are important here. Main thing :)
hope it helps. Good luck
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10:56 am
December 7, 2009
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Farah
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| Santri | posts 51 | |
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You should marry her first then take her.
I once had 4 years relationship with caucasian, and it end up. So if iwere her sure i would love to get married (i was previously engaged, but seemed means nothing-even married ppl could divorce easy…).
I think the parent should realize when a girl are single they belong to their parent/family, but when she married she belong to her husband, she should be where ever the husband is.
Beside that…. when you marry her do you think it will leave her at ease in mind when she know you were there by your self??? miles away?? because it will be differences bewteen a bf and husband, tends to be more close to hubby.
Is it a normal thing to follow what parent say? yes it is. But once again, she maybe don't even know what she want anyway !!
If she know what she want-she will follow you to your country (married first) or break up with you and married local guy (which is very easy and end the problem).
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4:10 pm
December 14, 2009
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browser
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| New Member | posts 2 | |
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Wow.. this is complicated.. Looks like her parents "arrange" it so you both can't be together.
You should think of this whole thing carefully, whether you wanted to be with her or not.
If you think that you do, maybe you can do some "tricks". What's in my mind is asking her for a short vacation, not too far, she might be suspicious, say to Australia, just for weekends without telling her parents. Then, wine and dined her (I really should stop watching chick flicks) and after few glass of wine, ask her to marry you, right there on the spot.
Many Indonesians do this when they have different religions (getting marriage in another country)
But then again, please consider about being with her I previously have mentioned, as this could lead into troubles, not with the law (except if you kidnap her of course) but with her parents. They probably would hate you for this, and if you want to make her happy you will have to take her parents' hearts.
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7:19 pm
December 16, 2009
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devilkitty
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| Santri | posts 19 | |
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Yeah it's normal, why ? to prevent "Kumpul Kebo" (mainin tu cewek, bosen trus ditinggal). At least with marriage you two are protected under the law and you wont be that easy leaving their daughter, so your gf's parents would feel a lot safer. If i were her parents, i would strictly say no to her as well.
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6:02 pm
January 3, 2010
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valthoris
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i just wanted to keep you posted, i had the worst new year ever. Welcome in 2010. As I couldn't stand it I went there to discuss with her and her parents. The conversation lead to the following:
- she is cheating with me for a year now (even when I was still in indonesia)
- Her parents are aware of her relationship with that guy while we were fiancee.
Thats a nice way to end a 5 years relationship no?
I will keep a good memory of indonesia especially its scenery, I enjoyed sulawesi and its people but i won't have a good memory of javanese:(
Thanks all for your answers to this matter. I hope they will help some other bule
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2:17 am
January 5, 2010
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Stefan
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| New Member | posts 2 | |
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Equalist said:
The general rule is this:
If parents choose spouses, the marriage is happier.
If we compile statistics, the trend will be clear. If young people choose spouses, they will be condemned to many broken relationships or they will have no marriage at all.
It's not so easy. The change from arranged marriages to love based marriages in western societies happened in the early 19th century, the increase of the divorce rate started in the 1960s.
There are several reasons for this development, such as increasing opportunities for women to live independently, anonymous urban life (We often don't know mucgabout our neighbors, maybe just their names and say hi when we meet them at the staircase but we have seldomly longer talks) increasing individualism and selfishness promoted theough advertizing etc.
In a traditional society an unmarried woman became a burden for her family because there was no opportunity for her to have a career. In modern society (including today's Indonesia) women can work and sometimes they are even the main breadwinner.
I have a gf from East Java, she is in her 30s. We met online and after a year of chatting and emailing I travelled to her home town to meet her. Since this trip we are in a relationship. But suddenly, a few days after I had left, her mom presented her another man, and ordered her to marry him. After a longer talk with him at a cafe she decided not to marry him. But her mom didn't accept theis deceision. She even tried to play some subtile tricks. Finally my gf has left her family.
My gf told me that she didn't obey to mer mom because the man didn't hry to win her heart during the talk at the cafe. He was just arrogant. He always tried to threaten her. So I tgink it's just about money and not that her mom thinks that he is a good husband for her. He has promised to invest into the mom's shop. From my western point of view this would just mean to sell the daughter for money.
Arranged mariage may work when parents use their knowledge about the personality of their children und their experience to find the best partner. But if they just look for money they may find the wrong one. The result is a son or daughter living in an unhappy suituation for the rest of his/her life. They may not het divorced because of ongoing pressurefrom the families but it this a good situation?
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