Good morning, Rara

same question directed to you ... supposedly you married or going to marry a westerner with different religion ... will you convert ??

really wants to know your answer

agree with you, Ross

especially on hand-kissing thing ... though I like it more on the forehead after the hand

Physically , a woman is an attraction to a man from hair to toe.

Sorry, not for me.

Hiya Diego!

Physically , a woman is an attraction to a man from hair to toe.
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Diego: Sorry, not for me.

Sorry too, I was speaking in general my friend!

I never had such a problem, my previous boyfriend is an atheist and I'm a non-practicing hindu, so we have two different religions, but we got along very well, until came the other person, my current boyfriend that is. See, the problem is not for the religion. My current boyfriend is also an atheist, and I stick to my principle of being non-practising hindu,

A non practicing Hindu to me sounds equal to an atheist. Sorry but thats not really a two religions. Atheism, agnostism or non-believing are the same. Being a non-practicing Hindu I suppose you dont go to the temple, you dont pray, you dont follow any of its rules etc. Thats a non-believer, again, equal to an atheist.

we exchange some knowledge from each other's religion,

whose religion??? I thought earlier you said he was an atheist??

First, you must understand the meaning of the word atheist. Atheists reject any form of religions, deities, or any supernatural claims. Therefore NO Religion!

like how the catholic church manipulates gullible persons in the rural areas, and of course pederasty done by them, and I tell him what I know / learned from mahabharata....

We´re not here to discuss any flaw of a certain religion Diego. Most of the cases a religion´s reputation is tainted by its followers because they "modify" or even abandon the mainstream teachings.

Have you heard this arabic (islamic?) saying: love conquers all? Or if you prefer the catholic version, from Saint John (and his disciple, Saint Paul): love is all you need.

Have you heard of "Too Much Love Will Kill You"?

Love is the most beautiful feeling God ever planted in our hearts. However dont be excessive in adoring this love.

"Too much love will kill you, If you can't make up your mind"  ;) So true. Must balance Love with Logic.

gtg for now --- Coffee Time! ---

Hi Rara

You have a very fetching way of posting. It makes even me gentle down

My comment on the role of some parents was not based on any survey, but merely on instances I have personally encountered.

I know one guy who, like many bules, is a stranger to religion, and he figured since he didn't believe in what he was brought up to, and he didn't believe in his bride's religion either, it made no difference if he 'converted.'

That's why I take a skeptical view of claims by Muslim clerics that more and more people are sigining up to Islam. What value are such converts?

I know another who desperately didn't want to convert but was to lose his beloved if he didn't bow to the parents' demand. Had that been me, I'd have carried her off and told the old nasties to go and take a flying flip.

On the other hand, I know another couple, both Indonesians, whose female half converted from Islam to Protestantism. The parents never spoke to her again and don't even want to see their grandchildren. What horrible people!

The great fear among Indonesian ladies who marry out of Islam is that if their man proves a bad guy or dies, they'll still be ostracised by their kin, and in the absence of any proper welfare system here, they'd be in a very tight spot.

That's why, on marrying, such couples should see to it that there is a safety net or pension plan in place precisely for such eventualities.

Where I grew up, marriage between Cathoilcs and Protestants was a source of many similar problems, but that is largely history now.

I wish the same could happen here.

Hey Donny,

Holy Koran stated that it is obligatory for muslims to kill any apostate, don't you know that ?? try googling for this one

No need to googling up (although there is no such word of obligatory  on the verse - dont blame you though, maybe you just heard lil this and lil that) I know exactly the verse you´re talkin about. I was just asking Ross where he found this case in Indonesia. Because so far I havent heard about parents wanted to kill their apostated children here.

Now about the verse itself, if you´d care to let me explain. This verse has been used againts muslims from time to time . First, you must know that The Quran was revealed in piecemeal according to the needs of the time. Thus the purposes can be vary.  When that verse was revealed it was at state of war whereas the Meccan hypocrites who converted to Islam only to approach the prophet so they could easily kill him. But God knew their evil intention therefore this verse was revealed. Well thats a lil brief knowledge, if you should say, I never wanted to give a lecture but since its been brought up, Im obliged to explain.

human is free to choose whatever religion he wanted to - and religion SHOULD improve ourselves to be a better person ... instead of promoting disparity

Awe to the freedom religion. In Islam there is no compulsion either

And you keep talking about disparity. Disparity = inequal. Which disparity that really intrigued your mind really? Will you elaborate?

Hi Ross,

You have a very fetching way of posting. It makes even me gentle down

awwww I take that as a compliment! Thank you! Made even you gentle down? wow that means Im special case! lol

That's why I take a skeptical view of claims by Muslim clerics that more and more people are sigining up to Islam. What value are such converts?

True,  numbers dont matter - what matters is how many people will stay in faith. Islam happens to be the second worlds largest religion, as Christianity took the first place. But lets not try to count how many have gone astray and how many keep their faith

The great fear among Indonesian ladies who marry out of Islam is that if their man proves a bad guy or dies, they'll still be ostracised by their kin, and in the absence of any proper welfare system here, they'd be in a very tight spot.

That's why, on marrying, such couples should see to it that there is a safety net or pension plan in place precisely for such eventualities.

I dont know what you´ve heard or seen and how many of them that must endure this unpleasant attitude againts them . The sentence great fear about ostracised by their kin/family, welfare  I think its a bit overwhelming no? Because its about family, family as in blood related individuals, biologically connected in the genes, the  people you know very close, - what in the world would stop you from having a heart-to-heart persuasive-nice-afternoon chat, to achieve a great understanding between you and your family?- It would take some time but this will absoultely induce the fueled emotion (which is normal as being reactive). I have witnessed this subtle parents-friendly-approach communication worked everytime

However, if you see this case doesnt occur often. And the percentage of mix-marriages is relatively very low. The case the parents will disown you or discharge you from their will, does not only happen in this country and within Islam merely. This could occur over the interracial marriage, disparity of social status marriage, or even castes and many more. This happens everywhere around the globe even in the west. It usually happens in a high-class society where they have a necesity to  protect their assets and reputation.

Thus this is only a social behaviour of humankind

although I wont shut my eyes that there are still also uneducated and unwell informed people who would act barbaric. Again, a very good communication is the main key.

 That's why, on marrying, such couples should see to it that there is a safety net or pension plan in place precisely for such eventualities.

This I believe its a must for every couple on earth to have insurance, future plan, etc! Since You wont get any pensions nor tax-refund nor social security here in Indo unless if your a civil servant (Pegawai Negri - work for govt)

Footnote: to bring 2 people together is already a handsful job, not to mention bringing 2 cultures together, it takes lotta work and unlimited understanding, endless learning. But that is the challenge of diversity, it shouldnt be a problem when they have a well knowledge about each other´s faith or culture. And when you finally overcome it I know it must be just wonderful It makes your life colorful

Well, Rara

Yes, it was a compliment - many of us go into attack-mode whenever we put finger to desk-top. One adjusts to the company one finds oneself in. Yours is a refreshingly open approach.

I do indeed hope that the sort of throw-back parents I described are few and far between in Indonesia. But going back to the example I gave, why on earth would any grandparents - other than psychopaths - need to be persuaded to love their infant grandchildren?

Ya, Rara, I hear what you say, but please don't think I am relating my own misfortunes.

I am perfectly content with my lot, and am nowhere near old enough to have grandchildren - well, I guess anyone over forty can be, but not me!

I merely relate the plights of folks I know or know of.

If all were as benign, thoughtful and pleasant as you, there would be few problems in the world.

Hi Ross,

Yes, I know.  I was saying for all, since you have met some ppl with such problems. Just sharing my thoughts over this issue since I have encounterd such conflict happened to people Im close with.

well My favorite quote is: "you can never change anyone but yourself" So hopefully we can do something to make it even a slight difference.

 Hi Kingwilly, thanks for the post.

I tend to agree with that. More than happy to allow them to live in peace, but do tend to think that they are women who are not thinking for themselves.

Thats another point for me thank you! 

 Then again, the power of family and culture is very strong here...

Yes indeed. Its a part of life. And thats why we´re here to discuss so we maybe can bridge the whatever barrier that may exist in East meets West relationship.