Hello everyone, this is my first post here.  I just got back from my third visit to Jakarta.  Unlike the previous two visits, this time I met a girl.

This girl, however, confuses me and I don't know what to think.  She says one thing, some circumstances say another, and my ability to use judgement and reason to weigh one against the other is severely hindered by the fact that I am a stranger in a strange land, in Indonesia.  Language barriers.. income disparity… cultural norms… it's all a bit much to process.

I'm not going to beat around the bush.  I really like this girl, but I'm worried that she was actually a prostitute. Please don't be too hard on me for putting myself in such a situation.  I will gladly share the tale, but I am unsure of this board's rules regarding such things.  I would be truly grateful for some local insights into my situation.  (Please don't prejudge me — as with most things in life, it's more complicated than it seems at first glance.)

So, can you offer me guidance on what is appropriate subject matter here and where I need to draw the line on what I reveal?

Terima kasih,

keloyang

OK.  Moderators, please feel free to black out any portions of my post which cross the line.

So here's the deal.

I go to Jakarta on business.  I am a 36 year old guy, and I admit I suffer whiplash when in Jakarta.  The women are so beautiful.  But it's not only that.  In the time I have spent in Indonesia, I am falling in love with the Indonesian people, and the country.  I love Indonesians for their willing smiles, their friendliness and generosity, their food.  I feel welcome in Indonesia, and I did not expect to.

On my latest stay, I was in the hotel lobby waiting for my colleague to join me and admiring a beautiful woman who was standing with a group of Japanese business men/tourists.  Now, before we get too far, this woman did not look like a prostitute at all.  The hotel lobby/bar is filled to the brim with prostitutes, and she does not look like one of them.  Simple makeup, modest and professional dress, and absolutely stunning.

After a short while, the group of men leaves and she sits down at one of the chairs in the lobby.  A few seconds later she turns around and smiles at me. We strike up a little conversation.  She tells me that the men were colleagues of her father's.  At this stage I am in skeptical mode because frankly, although I'm not a terribly ugly man, I am still rather unaccustomed to beautiful women chatting me up.  I asked her what her father did for a living and she started crying.  She asked me to forgive her, that she was very sensitive about her father.  I was bewildered and confused.  My colleague picked that moment to show up, and I had to leave.  But before I left I asked for her number, which she gave me.

I tried to contact her by mobile to apologize for making her cry, but I had apparently written the number down wrong.  The next night, I was working in the hotel lounge with my laptop and when I finished I decided I would swing through the lobby to see if by chance she might be there.  She was.  (Warning bells right?)

I sat down with her to apologize for the previous evening.  She told me it was OK and apologized for the emotional outburst.  She told me she was flattered that I still remembered her and said she had been thinking about me since we had met (if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is, right?)

While I was sitting with her, a man stopped by to say hello.  He was a creepy looking older guy and he exchanged greetings with her and said that if she wanted to get a hold of him or his friend he was in room 304 and the friend was in room 307.  (Uncomfortable feeling in my gut.)

I decided I had performed my civic duty and I excused myself. As I was leaving, she asked if she could have my number.  I obliged. The next day, I got an SMS from her asking if she could see me again.  At this stage I was leaning more toward "she's a prostitute".  I am not one to disrespect a woman based on nothing than suspission, however, so I responded: "Sure.  Dinner and a Movie? On one condition:  I will NOT be taking you up to my room, OK?"

Continued in next post

I said OK.  But my brain was screaming at me that I was being a fool.  The thing is, I really liked this girl.  She was fun, she was hillarious, she was pretty, and she seemed to like me.  Indeed, she came up to my room and sat next to me and rubbed my shoulders while I got work done.  She went into the bathroom and took a shower (I heard her lock the door, so– not an invitation to join her).  She came out and I offered her one of my shirts to wear.

Oh my goodness… yeah… I've already made several bad decisions that would make it harder for me to let this get out of control, but the sight of her… we men are so weak.

She sat on my lap while I tried as hard as possible to concentrate on my work.  I kept my focus for quite a while, but she was trying very hard to distract me.  I stopped and looked at her and point blank said: "I am not going to have sex with you."

She said could she kiss me.. foolishly I said OK.  One thing led to another….  I resisted as long as I could.  Even after we were both naked I tried to keep myself from having actual intercourse with her.  But she pinned me on my back (not that I was putting up much of a struggle at this stage) and kinda forced herself onto me.  Not rape, mind you, but she kept saying it had been so long for her.  I kept saying "I can't do this."  She did wear me down.

Now.. ok.. this next part is NOT family-friendly.  So please skip the next paragraph if you're offended by WAY too much information.

I've never had sex with an Asian girl before.  I don't know if the stereotypes are true.  My colleague, who regularly spends time with prostitutes told me that Indonesian prostitutes often try to stay away from Bule because they are too large and cause them pain.  I'm only repeating what I've been told here, so don't shoot the messenger.  Anyway, I don't know if it's true, but this girl was indeed quite small and things were… a tight fit.  So why?  Because she hasn't had intercourse in a long time?  Well, in my experience there's a LITTLE bit of tightening if a woman goes without for a while, but not a whole lot.  So is it just because her whole body is small, and even if she had sex every day she'd still feel tight?  I simply don't know.  Seems at least as likely to be the case, but I have no experience here.

OK, the more sensitive among you can open your eyes again now.  She stayed in my bed while I went up to the exec lounge to meet my colleague so we could have our conference call.  I returned to find her asleep.  We slept peacefully until morning.  That morning I took another shower, and left my wallet on the desk.  After my shower, nothing was missing from my wallet.

I ordered breakfast for her in-room and went off to work.  I only had a half-day, so when I came back she was still in my room, just getting dressed. We decided to go shopping…

Continued

Oh one more thing.  I want to quote from a post that I read on this forum.  It was in the "How to Get a Bule Man" thread from 2008.  The comment was by 'Finally Woken':

[quote ]

Anyway, since I won’t be able to buy the book until I get back to Indonesia, I wonder if she includes several important topics i.e.:

- how to grab his attention, especially if you’re in a dark bar/pub, he is half drunk and surrounded by other girls who have the same interest

- how to move in with him in a week after meeting him and make him think it’s his idea and not yours

- how to make him think he is ready to live his life forever with you even though he doesn’t even know where you live, your last name yet, and what you do in a daylight

- how to get him divorcing his wife and choosing you over his partner for 25 years (and kids, if any)

- how to engage a conversation with your man if he talks about his job and you don’t even understand English (nodding and smiling at the right time or perhaps any other tricks would be welcome)

- how to get him paid for everything even if you’ve just met each other last weekend, and how to have him done it continuously even after you break up with him so you have steady source of income

- how to keep him under your spell so he wouldn’t fall for other Indonesian girls (any mysterious jamu or certain techniques in bed would be much appreciated, thank you).

- how to keep him away from other aggressive Indonesian girls or how to fight against the other Indonesian girls who are interested in stealing your man away from you (it takes more than snigger but she has to do it in such an elegant way otherwise her man will think he’s a precious prince).[/quote]

This is basically exactly what happened to me.  So.. what happened to me?

Post edited 4:15 pm – February 18, 2009 by TidakMasalah

Farah, yeah.. thought so.

I'm actually not a complete idiot, except when it comes to women, that is.

Just a few clarifications. (Mind you, this is what she SAYS, which might not necessarily be what reality is.)

Woman a good liar in bed, especially if you are only service oriented.

Ouch.  I felt that one. I would have also suspected some faking except for two facts:  1)  I didn't want to have sex with her.  She kept insisting. 2) I don't think women can fake ejaculation and I have never EVER seen a girl squirt as hard as she did (not trying to credit the credit, I actually barely touched her before the first time she did it).  We had to put a towel on the bed before sleeping.

But hey, I guess I'm less worried about whether this ONE aspect was a lie than I am about whether the whole 3 days was a lie.

She is working daily (regular) have her father collagues for business in a hotel (that will cost her if she really HAVE a business) and she only have an old cellphone ?? my youngest sister is a traditional dancer, she still studying in university, monthly she got Rp 800,000,- pay, she had TWO CELLPHONE (i pay her bills ofcourse)

OK, some clarification here.  What she actually told me is that her father, who is Japanese but currently working from Dubai, tells any of his colleagues who are coming through Jakarta for the first time that they can just call his daughter and she will help them get set up with a hotel and some things to do and stuff.  She said she didn't get paid for this by her father (but maybe she gets tipped by his colleagues?).

She said her monthly income was 2 million/month when she was working as a nurse, but that right now since she is in training, she has no salary, which is why she is living with “head hospital” as she calls it, which I understood to mean the hospital administrator's house.

You said she is is professional dress…and look stunning.. i don't know what she wear, but a woman blazer these days cost you the lowest Rp 500,000,- and she can't afford Rp 1.500.000,- cellphone?

Well, she said that she used to make good money, but that a flood washed away her home in Central Java, which is why she came to Jakarta, to start over.

she is a midwife with professional dress ? where she work ?

No, she claims to be a midwife in training.  The professional dress is all she says she brought with her to Jakarta.  That her more casual clothes are back with her mother in <can't remember the name of the town>.

At last….. for me.. i wont accept invitation from any guy to his hotel room or jump into a guy lap who don't even know where my office or my house or my friends if i want to be serious with him.

OK, this is what I really wanted to know I think.  So as an Indonesian girl, you would consider this girl's behaviour, even if everything she said was true, to be unusually forward, correct?  ie: at best, she's kinda slutty.  This is what you are saying?

If she did that easy with you, why you think she don't do it with others that easy too? theres plenty bule that more handsome than you, more money, etc (i can't really judge this.. just for your thought) in jakarta… plenty of them !!

No it's OK. You're right.  I have no illusions about any of it.  What I really want to know is what exactly happened to me.  Did I in fact spend 3 days with a prostitute, or did I spend 3 days with a girl who wants a foreigner to take care of her?  Or is there even a difference?

I've been gone for several days now but here is an email I got from her yesterday:

dearest honey , how are you , where are you doing now? I  hope you everything is well honey , have a good and nice trip honey , becerefuly if you traveling sayang , and i hope you dont forget me ya honey , i miss you alot , i.m so hapy with you , tanks so much for anything ya honey , and i wait you always honey , because i very love you honey really , tanks alot . big hug and kiss you .

I'm just a stupid bule who got fooled by a pretty girl? 

Thank you for your thoughtful response.  I guess I should be somewhat relieved that she probably was not a prostitute, but I am nevertheless alarmed that a girl would go to so much trouble just to get "stuff" from me.

The thing is, I would be happy to take a nice girl out to some great restaurants and to do fun things with her, and yes, maybe even take her shopping once in a while, no sex required!!!  Just someone to have interesting conversations with while I am in town on business (it can be a cold and lonely life, going from hotel to hotel, living out of a suit case).  I would be happy to do these things, but not as PAYMENT for the companionship. 

Some nice evenings with maybe a little harmless flirting, sure.  I'm a man, I like pretty girls.  A good friend that I can stay in touch with, maybe even get to know her family and friends, even better!  I love Indonesia, and I would love nothing more than to get to know Indonesians better than "Good morning Sir, Good night Sir, Thank you Sir".  And if my new friend(s) need some help and it's within my limited ability to provide it, of course!  I help my friends when I can, whether they are here in the US or anywhere else.

But I am just a stupid tourist and I am easily fooled. I don't want to be taken advantage of.  Part of me wants to think this girl really likes me, (I am not foolish enough to think there could be any love there so quickly), but most of my brain is screaming:  You gullible sot– you typical man– some cute girl shakes her thing at you and you start thinking with the wrong part of your body.

I'm disappointed in myself that I did not show a bit more self-discipline (it's unlike me to go to bed with a girl so quickly).  I'm disappointed that it was so easy for me not only to be lied to, but to lie to myself.  I'm also disappointed because I feel I have disrespected the people of Indonesia by participating in behaviour that is surely considered a stain on their society.  And I'm sad, because really, all I wanted is to have a nice, clean time with a nice girl and maybe make a friend or two that I could look forward to seeing and who would look forward to seeing me.

To make matters worse, and I did not mention this before because truly, I am ashamed of myself, but since this is an anonymous board and I have already revealed a bunch of very personal stuff, I am a Muslim American.  The very idea that a Muslim man would be getting all tangled up in this sort of thing… let's just say I am glad to be anonymous right now, but God sees me and knows me, and nothing I do can hide my shame from Him.

Thank you all for not being too cruel with me.

heh.. well, I guess I am glad I proved… entertaining?

I want to say thanks to Farah who did also take the time to respond to me in a PM.  And thanks to Sri.  Hopefully on my next visit to Jakarta my eyes will be a little more wide open and I won't make such a fool of myself.

Thanks again Sri.  And though I am touched by the invitation, there ain't no freakin' way I am showing my face after telling the tale I have told. LOL!

I surrendered my dignity only because of the anonymity afforded me by this medium.  But… if you happen to see a 6-foot-something long-haired bule in JKT, smiling randomly at people as he walks around somewhat aimlessly, stop and say hello cause it might be me!

Oz, thanks for the kind words.   Nice to know that my posts are good for more than a good laugh. :)  I see the number of "reads" going up and up, and so very few people bothered to post a response.   

Anyone else out there read this whole thing but didn't chime in?

Feedback is good!

Post edited 3:58 am – April 3, 2009 by Patung

embryofields,

thank you for your candor. I agree with you that it's not love, but rather the loneliness that comes from a little too much time spent traveling for work, going from place to place, hotel to hotel.  It's no excuse for me betraying my principles, but at least it serves as some sort of explanation for why I was so 'easy'.

I am an American Muslim in the sense that my parents were immigrants from a Muslim (Arab) country, but I was born and raised in America.  Both my parents raised me to be a good Muslim.  I don't drink, I don't eat pork, I fast Ramadhan, I usually pray 5 times a day although when I am acting in ways that make me feel guilty, I tend to skip the prayers because they make me feel like too much of a hypocrite. Which, as my story illustrates, I am.

I am American in every way but my name and my faith. I watch American TV shows and listen to American music and dress, talk, act like what I am, a person who was born and raised in America.  If you saw me, you would never think my heritage is Arab Muslim.  I look American.

But I am there at jumaa along with al my brothers and sisters.  I stand shoulder to shoulder with them, these days with more shame than anything else, but a shame I keep to myself.  I don't really want to turn the discussion into an examination of the state of my iman though.  That's a struggle all its own.  I was really only after some clarification on the cultural context of my experience.

Peace