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4:50 am
September 3, 2010
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fabian
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| Abangan | posts 4 | |
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greetings to everyone.
I am writing from Montevideo,Uruguay,Southamerica, and would llike to learn more about Indonesia and their old beliefs and customs.
I havent visited your country yet.
Please someone post some basic info about Kejawen, or the mix of old magic with islamic or christian religion. I understand that there is also an ancient tradition that a few years ago was recognised as a branch of hinduism.
And specially, I liked the postings of Mr Aluang Anak Bayang, even if I disagree in some of his opinions, but I specially invite him to post here about Kejawen.
In my country we dont have indonesian embassy, but there is one in ARgentina
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6:14 am
September 4, 2010
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timdog
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| Santri | posts 17 | |
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Post edited 6:16 am – September 4, 2010 by timdog
That's an awfully big question you're asking there, mister, and not one that can really answered in a forum post. In fact the "question" of "Kejawen" can't really be answered at all.
Mister Aluang Anak Bayang ran away a long time ago, and I wouldn't necessarily regard him as any kind of authority on Kejawen and such matters.
Anyone with any kind of serious interest in the topic needs to start with at least three books:
The Religion of Java by Clifford Geertz,
Javanese Culture by Koentjaraningrat, and
Varieties of Javanese Religion by Andrew Beatty.
And if you're more confused when you've read all three than you were when you started, then you might have got the point!
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4:18 pm
September 6, 2010
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Lairedion
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| Santri | posts 44 | |
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Post edited 4:18 pm – September 6, 2010 by Lairedion
Hola,
Indeed Aluang had ran away, perhaps I'm sort of responsible for that as I questioned his Indonesianess… However I enjoyed reading his comments and it's a pity he left.
Here's a useful link to start off with, next to the sources timdog mentioned:
http://www.xs4all.nl/~wichm/javmys1.html
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1:36 am
September 30, 2010
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fabian
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| Abangan | posts 4 | |
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Well, thankyou for the info
I will try to get those books in some local uruguayan library…..or read them online maybe
Pity that Aluang Anak Bayag is not anyore in this forum….I enjoyed his way of writing, even if many times I didnt agree with what he said….
.-Do other persons here also practice kejawen, or the other dayak mystical hinduist religion ?
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4:51 pm
October 5, 2010
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timdog
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| Santri | posts 17 | |
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If there is a Uruguayan university with a major anthropology faculty, I expect they will have the Clifford Geertz book at the very least…
It is a pity that AAB is not on the forum any more, but I doubt very much that he was in any way a real "practitioner of Kejawen"… Though a few people might actively self-label as "Kejawen" these days (at least in part simply as a reaction to demonstrative orthodoxy), most people (most authentic people) would simply incorprate a greater or lesser number of beliefs, ideas and practices that might loosely be identified as "Kejawen" (for want of a better word) into an outlook and identity that also includes being "Muslim" (or sometimes "Catholic" or "Christian")…
As for "dayak mystical hinduist religion"… I don't know very much about the Dayaks; they certainly have their own traditional belief systems (although most are now at least nominally Christian – or Muslim), but I'm pretty sure there's not much "hinduist" about it. And what on earth does "mystical" mean? It's a grossly misused word, and I suspect that you may be misusing it here while actually meaning nothing more than "exotic" (from a nominally Judeo-Christian background), right?
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6:05 pm
October 5, 2010
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Lairedion
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| Santri | posts 44 | |
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The Dayak belief Kaharingan has been categorised under the umbrella of Hinduism for the sake of having it recognized. Tollotang, the ancient Bugis belief is another example.
In practice there are some influences from Hinduism, mainly through contact with Hindu Javanese merchants in the pre-Islamic era. These are certainly not branches of Hinduism in the same sense of Balinese and Javanese Hinduism.
Some compromises have been made by Indonesian governments and religious leaders to adopt belief systems into the Pancasila and the Indonesian Constitution of 5 allowed religions. How else is it possible to reconcile non-theistic Buddhism and pan-theistic Hinduism with the first Pancasila principle, belief in One God?
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4:28 am
October 9, 2010
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krupuk
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| Abangan | posts 4 | |
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now, 6 relligions; kong hu chu
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1:17 pm
October 11, 2010
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fabian
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| Abangan | posts 4 | |
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@ Timdog : "mystical", I was refering, in, like in a kind of esoteric religion, or esoterism,occultism, the kind with magical practices, or yoga technics, as opposed to the external,merely ritual religion.
For example, with hypnotism, and mental powers, and meditation….As long as those things works….Even if I am agnostic, I have experienced a few thing that some people would consider "magical", but for me are just applied knowledge….like lowing blood pressure or enduring great time under water…
And,you are right, there is a certain hinduism in all that…but the jewish have the qabalah, and I also like to know about western occultism
And, some so called magical or religious practices, I find the even adequate and interesting even for atheists that want to gain new powers….Even the sovietic scientist experimented with telekinesis ,telepahthy and those things…
…..
@Lairedion : Thankyou, I was exactly refering to Kaharingan…I didnt know about the Tollotang, but did read in Wikipedia about bugis having 5 genders, and one of them were a kind of witch transvestites, tolerated by the islamics….weird thing really…
-Are you hispano, or latino ?
…….
@Krupuk : Yes, confucianism…even if that name Kong Hu Chu totally puzzled me at first..-Are you confucianist ?
………..
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4:33 pm
October 11, 2010
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Lairedion
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| Santri | posts 44 | |
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Hi Fabian,
No, my mother is Dutch, my father is Indonesian (mixed Manadonese-Javanese).
Is there something that made you think I'm Latino? In fact, when I visit Spain many locals do believe I'm from Latin America (brown skin, some Asian facial features) or Philippines.
This reminds me of Colombia used to employ Malaysians in their fights against FARC and ELN because they had experience in curbing communist resurgents in jungle environments. Only when they were caught and stripped naked they were exposed as all of them were circumcised (which apparently is very rare in Colombia).
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12:39 am
October 20, 2010
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diego
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| Abangan | posts 9 | |
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The last paragraph of Lairedion on stripping the malaysian mercenaries naked…. I thought he was about to mention the size. I was wrong. :)
Anyway, news… those saudis (that race with skinny legs and face like rats, and hypocrites too, from arab), read this: http://www.tempointeraktif.com…..83,id.html
Hahaha… the grandson of the king of saudi is gay gay gay gay gay…. (not that there's anything wrong with that), but cowardly he insisted he's hetero during the court (oh, puh-leeze, like all saudis you are flaming bitch, loca furiosa)….. Ok, the not so funny one: he murdered his servant (male), in London.
Thanks GOD, UK has much better legal system. That @sshole has been charged guilty. Wish there's still death penalty in UK, for that kind of RAT.
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1:51 pm
October 22, 2010
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foxynica
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| Abangan | posts 4 | |
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Hi Fabian,
Eventhough im indonesian but im also unfamiliar with kejawen and stuffs.
But i found some related links that may help you out:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J…..se_beliefs
http://kejawen.org/
Hope they're helping a bit. My advice is you should come here to see it and experience it yourself so it will fulfill your knowledge even more.
Good luck with your research.
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4:00 pm
October 27, 2010
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fabian
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| Abangan | posts 4 | |
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@Diego : ha ha ha….I imagined maybe you would be volunteer for the unpleasant task of checking the enemy soldiers "equipment" maybe…
By the way….-How is the situation for sexual minorities in Indonesia ?
I thought it was against the law, but ,in Facebook, I learned that 2 of my female friends are in a "special relationship" with another girl….
Maybe even it s easier to go discreetly honeymooning for same sex couples, than for heterosexual couples, if they are not married…At least, it would be easier to book a room with 2 different beds in a hotel in Sumatra for 2 guys than for 1 man and 1 woman, if they are not married…they could pass as cousins or workmates..
Probably if the arab prince confessed of being gay, he risked being executed in Saudi Arabia…
@Foxynica : Yes, I would really like to go to Indonesia, mainly to Sulawesi and Java. And thankyou for the links
@Lairedion : some indonesians look like southamerican mestizos, those of mixed blood of latin and aborigin amerindians…with slightly asiatic eyes, but not so slit as japanese or chinese, and brownish skin
But many dayaks are even whiter or paler than white latins…
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9:56 pm
October 27, 2010
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diego
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| Abangan | posts 9 | |
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"By the way….-How is the situation for sexual minorities in Indonesia ?"
I don't know. Still sucks maybe? I live in la ciudad de mexico btw…. Relatively more open & tolerant here, love it.
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