Jakarta Suckers!

Mar 22nd, 2010, in IM Posts, Opinion, by

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144 Comments on “Jakarta Suckers!”

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  1. avatar Swagman says:
    March 24th, 2010 at 12:49 pm

    Wait till you’re fat and have a noisy breath.

    That’s plagiarism Deta …. LOL

  2. avatar deta says:
    March 24th, 2010 at 12:58 pm

    Plagiarism? No, I only did the copy and paste.

  3. avatar Laurence says:
    March 24th, 2010 at 1:18 pm

    Ohh ok, poor fat people they are disavantaged and need to pay hehehehe

  4. avatar Oigal says:
    March 24th, 2010 at 2:30 pm

    Hey Venna

    If you have comparison on how many percent of those working girls that jump into domestic market and how many percent actually that choosing different segment, it would be helpful.

    I think accurate figures would be nigh on impossible, you cannot even get an accurate number for the population of Indonesia. How would you count the working girls, full time, part timers, once and whilers? I did hear once 25000 in the greater jakarta area alone but that was probably some wackers worst guess. If true it would not be possible for the foreigners to service that size market even with the atypical “SEMEN” truck trundling around.

    However, it is commonly known for every well known watering hole with “extras” for foreigners (less than 1% of the population anyway) there are dozens of places servicing the domestic market. Dolly and that place up in the mountain (forget the name) are essentially domestic markets and tacky ones at that for instance. Every main road has it truck and *uck spot as does every harbour.

    Rough guess but as a career move, the foreigner market would be at the top end of your hooking career down to the dolly and out to the wharfs but I guess a survey of the girls would be needed.

    From my own perspective, In my younger day (that’s my story and I am sticking to it), I had heard about the “Dolly” and had experienced most of the more common expat frequented establishments (for research purposes only). Visited dolly as it was supposed to be somewhat exotic but lasted less than two beers. Seedy, brutal and evil. Sad looking, beaten down girls behind glass and just a plain depressing place. I for one enjoy the to and fro between punter and seller wether you bought or not, the idea of selecting slabs of meat from behind glass was just too depressing for words and about sums up my experience of the domestic market.

  5. avatar deta says:
    March 24th, 2010 at 3:35 pm

    Oigal

    Rough guess but as a career move, the foreigner market would be at the top end of your hooking career down to the dolly and out to the wharfs but I guess a survey of the girls would be needed.

    Let’s see if I get it right. You mean serving the foreigners will make them at the top of their career? Based upon what do you make this presumption? The higher amount of money they make, the higher prestige, or the more varieties of imported genital diseases they might get? Just out of curiousity.

  6. avatar Ross says:
    March 24th, 2010 at 8:49 pm

    Yeah, Oigal, that place near Surabaya, it begins with T, and of course there’s good ole Kali Jodo right here in Jakarta, which gets a mention in my book.
    Oya, deta and Inez, thanks for the good wishes, and send me a pm if you want to order one of my ‘free delivery in Jabotabek’ copies.
    The first (little ) print run is almost sold out, so it’ll be a wait till I go back to my printer’s shop again if you don’t hurry!

  7. avatar venna says:
    March 24th, 2010 at 9:36 pm

    @Oigal:

    (less than 1% of the population anyway) there are dozens of places servicing the domestic market. Dolly and that place up in the mountain (forget the name) are essentially domestic markets and tacky ones at that for instance.
    ____________

    Yep, exactly, and it makes sense. Only 1% (and how many foreigners though that coming and living in this country? Not much!), concentrating only in several places…. Jakarta, Bandung, Puncak, Bali, Batam…. what else? maybe up to 10? And the rest are accommodating local clients (anywhere in more than 400 cities and towns. Everywhere we go, we can find hot-spots easily. Just ask the locals or stop at and walk along the specific areas). And I still not counting the trafficking business done by locals to supply international markets abroad. As well as not counting the male prostitutes like in Bali or Jakarta yet.

    1%, hmm…. small number but attract lots of controversy, while the 99% spread diseases and passing ecstasy, alcohol, and abuses every night smoothly and peacefully.

    While it is interesting to see your comment about serving foreigners as the top of their career, I found it is still debatable. Any working girls will try to take good portion from “fatty clients”, either white or brown. And they will treat any customer like a king no matter what, because that’s their job and that’s their way to make money. You can ask Maria Eva, she knows better I bet. So I think it is a myth actually when people saying the foreigners got better service or that they pay them more than the locals. We need to dig more info and research on these.

  8. avatar Ross says:
    March 24th, 2010 at 10:12 pm

    Having very recently visited Kali Jodo, for the first time, in the arvo, as I was told it might be tricky at night for a foreigner, I did ask the very friendly girls what the going rate was, and it seems to be a hundred thou.

    I didn’t take up the offer, not because I’m a holy-joe type but because I was genuinely there to research (and was still rather weary from a few beers on Thursday) but I and my two mates who took me there, were very obviously bule, and the lassies were quite unexcited about that fact, polite, friendly, but vastly indifferent to our nationalities.

    So for all you guys who know the prices in posh bars like those within our five-star Jakarta hotels, how does that compare? I don’t pretend to know much about posh places but I’ve heard a million is not an uncommon request?!?

  9. avatar Odinius says:
    March 24th, 2010 at 11:34 pm

    To be honest, I don’t have a problem with people exchanging money for sex, provided it’s between two consenting adults, they have safe sex (and thus don’t spread diseases) and it’s not attached to any sort of ‘severe exploitation,’ e.g. pimping, criminal syndicates, abuse, etc. As long as that’s the case, it’s a personal decision for people to make together, according to their own priorities and moral values.

    But in places where prostitution is controlled by criminals and is unregulated by the state, these things inevitably happen. You get the Dolly that Oigal describes. Or worse, you get Cambodia. However you cut it, this is a problem.

    On a personal level, I find the attitude towards women that a subset of these ladies’ customers display–you know, where the woman is an indentured sex servant to be dominated in order to make the man, often fresh off some personal disappointment or failure, feel macho again–embarrassing (as a foreign resident of Indonesia) and kind of pathetic. They’re people too; no need to degrade them.

  10. avatar Oigal says:
    March 25th, 2010 at 11:11 am

    Let’s see if I get it right. You mean serving the foreigners will make them at the top of their career? Based upon what do you make this presumption? The higher amount of money they make, the higher prestige, or the more varieties of imported genital diseases they might get? Just out of curiousity.

    Hmmmm….Do I detect an undercurrent of the offended there Deta? There shouldn’t be as you say it is very much a presumption my part. You would have to asked the girls themselves if that is what they think. It has nothing to do with being foreigner or national but rather the differing evironments in which to ply the trade.

    However, a fairly basic observation would be if you have to sling your booty (and no-one is saying it should be a career of choice) then it may well be preferable to sling it in 3,4 and five star evirons than down the back alleys of the wharf area. Certainly I would imagine more profitable, everyone would agree that the foreigner pays more for something as simple as a crate of Pop Mie due to a lack of haggling skills so safe to assume that would apply to more specialised “products”.

    or the more varieties of imported genital diseases they might get?

    Bit Xenophobic don’t you think? Nothing here that is not already here and has been for a long time. I would be more worried about the lack of basic sex education overall than what visitors may or may not bring.

  11. avatar Oigal says:
    March 25th, 2010 at 11:20 am

    So I think it is a myth actually when people saying the foreigners got better service or that they pay them more than the locals. We need to dig more info and research on these.

    Hi Venna, you are probably right perhaps better if I said “well heeled” clients although the abundance of alcohol and “when the boys are away” mind set tends to set the ratio into the foreigner side a fair bit I would imagine.

    Let’s not forget, a lot of the girls feel more comfortable in establishment mainly catering foreigners (or out of towners then) as they feel more anonymous that way.

  12. avatar deta says:
    March 25th, 2010 at 1:19 pm

    Hmmmm….Do I detect an undercurrent of the offended there Deta?

    Indeed. I just think that crocodile is crocodile, no matter what the skin colour is.

    I always have empathy toward women who are forced to be in prostitution because they have no other choice to earn for living, especially with parents and children whose life depend on them. It’s a very hard situation I know, and the least they can get is a protection from sexually transmitted diseases as they are in a very vulnerable condition on that matter. And yes, some of these diseases are originally continent-specific and being transmitted through an unsafe intercourse of people with different origin. Correct me if I am wrong about this (honestly, I don’t mind at all expanding my knowledge), but HIV had not been here until about twenty three years ago.

    I do look down to women who are in the hidden prostitution, though, like ayam kampus or maria eva’s kind that actually have other options with their life yet choose to take advantage of lelaki hidung belang (what’s in English? stripy nosed men?) with stuffed wallets. Sadly, this is the group who commonly target the ‘high class’ segment and get the best out of this industry.

  13. avatar ET says:
    March 25th, 2010 at 1:26 pm

    Correct me if I am wrong about this (honestly, I don’t mind at all expanding my knowledge), but HIV had not been here until about twenty three years ago.

    As far as I know HIV hasn’t been anywhere until about 23 years ago and casting the blame on others won’t solve the problem.

  14. avatar Oigal says:
    March 25th, 2010 at 1:48 pm

    being transmitted through an unsafe intercourse of people with different origin.

    Being transmitted through unsafe intercourse is the key..with different orgin is just not factually viable unless of course you are saying the Africans are responsible for Aids and Asia is responsible for drug resistent VD (Toyko Rose anyone?). Its the atypical its someone elses fault.

    The reality is germs and disease don’t recognise borders just stupidity, poor santition and poor education. Bird Flu being a classic example.

    Not sure we have the right to look down on anyone providing that they don’t prevent others from living their life how they choose. How do such women effect you that you feel you must look down at them? Just curious.

  15. avatar Cukurungan says:
    March 25th, 2010 at 2:03 pm

    According to the late Pak Achmad, HIV virus was born since 23 years ago, it was occured when Bule (Tarzan) f**cked the monkey in the Africa Jungle, since then HIV haven been spreading all over the world following the bule trail anywhere.

  16. avatar deta says:
    March 25th, 2010 at 2:08 pm

    As far as I know HIV hasn’t been anywhere until about 23 years ago and casting the blame on others won’t solve the problem.

    Okay, thanks for expanding my knowledge. It’s just not the same with what I read on WHO reports that by that year 71 thousands cases of HIV had been reported.

    Not sure we have the right to look down on anyone providing that they don’t prevent others from living their life how they choose. How do such women effect you that you feel you must look down at them? Just curious.

    Not sure whether people can decide other people’s right as long as it doesn’t cause negative effect to others. Maybe it doesn’t directly have an effect on me, but when people you know well lose their husbands or children lose their fathers because of this hanky panky business (and this is verrryyy common in this country), then you know how it feels. That hopefully will answer your curiousity.

  17. avatar ET says:
    March 25th, 2010 at 2:11 pm

    According to the late Pak Achmad, HIV virus was born since 23 years ago, it was occured when Bule (Tarzan) f**cked the monkey in the Africa Jungle, since then HIV haven been spreading all over the world following the bule trail anywhere.

    Indonesia’s finest son has spoken once again.

  18. avatar ET says:
    March 25th, 2010 at 2:22 pm

    It’s just not the same with what I read on WHO reports that by that year 71 thousands cases of HIV had been reported.

    Starting where and when? If HIV has been around for such a long time then why has it only been brought to the public’s attention since the mid-eighties?

  19. avatar deta says:
    March 25th, 2010 at 2:29 pm

    Starting where and when?

    Africa, 1930s

  20. avatar ET says:
    March 25th, 2010 at 2:45 pm

    Africa, 1930s

    Do your sources also specify how and why it took so long to come to Indonesia 23 years ago? In other words: who can you blame?

  21. avatar deta says:
    March 25th, 2010 at 3:01 pm

    ET, I ain’t no playing scapegoat here. Nothing and nobody is to blame.
    Back to my post, I did say that women who are in the prostitution business are in a vulnerable condition regarding these sexually transmitted diseases, and playing in foreigner segment market (maybe) just expose them to more variability of these diseases. Didn’t I say that I would be happy to be corrected?

  22. avatar ET says:
    March 25th, 2010 at 3:26 pm

    @ deta

    ET, I ain’t no playing scapegoat here. Nothing and nobody is to blame.

    Then how shall we interpret your earlier post,

    but HIV had not been here until about twenty three years ago.

    Indonesia having been for centuries a maritime crossroads for all kinds of nations whose seafarers also had certain needs, unless you allude to a specific influx of a certain kind of people that occurred about 23 years ago.

  23. avatar Oigal says:
    March 25th, 2010 at 3:27 pm

    Deta,

    I can understand your view about

    lose their husbands or children lose their fathers because of this hanky panky business

    but don’t really agree as it takes two to tango (or more if an unhappy home to start), so is the the girls fault or..
    The trade has been around since humans first worked the earth and always will be that is just life sometimes its unfair.

    laying in foreigner segment market (maybe) just expose them to more variability of these diseases

    It really is just not a viable statement in this day and age, people travel too much (including Indonesians) to pretend diseases are continent-specific. It is at best, naive in this day age of mass mobility to suggest anything else.

    I would have to research it, but its fair bet to suggest that Africa and Papua are right up there with AIDS infection by populace and Asia itself would not to being too bad on STD’s in general. So is your point these people should be stopped traveling to other countries or perhaps we should try and address the root cause with education (including sex education at schools) better health services and the concept of safe sex.

    Sorry but this diseased by decent or country really has racist undertones to me.

  24. avatar deta says:
    March 25th, 2010 at 3:37 pm

    Okay, I take that as a correction. Sorry, didn’t mean to be racist at all, just want to dig more scientific facts about this.

  25. avatar Oigal says:
    March 25th, 2010 at 4:07 pm

    Well to look at a more positive side, diseases don’t recognise borders nor do cures. If from what I had read, places like brazil and Indonesia (providing they can stop the wholesale destruction of their forests) may very well ho

  26. avatar Cukurungan says:
    March 25th, 2010 at 4:13 pm

    What does kind of the scientific facts you want to dig while there are more than enough fact and evidence that HIV was created by Jews and Bule to control population of the savage people in this planet.

    As you may aware in the past, after the whitey managed to kill most American Indian Men with Gun, the whitey also kill politely the American Indian women by deliberately infesting their sex disease to those savage women.

  27. avatar Oigal says:
    March 25th, 2010 at 4:16 pm

    HIV was created by Jews and Bule

    Whew!! for a minute there, I thought he was talking about us black jews with chinese mothers..:-)

  28. avatar diego says:
    March 25th, 2010 at 7:30 pm

    Err… Oigal, I thought if your mother is a non-jew then technically you’re not a jew…. Sorry to make you hear that.

  29. avatar Odinius says:
    March 25th, 2010 at 9:42 pm

    Prostitution is always going to be there…so the state either tolerates it and lets it be controlled by criminal gangs, with no rules; or it steps in and regulates it, protects sex workers and forces those within it to abide by certain, disease and violence containing rules.

  30. avatar Ross says:
    March 25th, 2010 at 11:12 pm

    Or, as in some countries, agencies of the state muscle in on the racket and not only profit from the girls’ exertions but insist on ‘fringe benefits.’
    Here’s another extract to encourage buyers:-

    You often see their little open-back trucks sailing round Blok M at night, or hovering near evictions in day-time. It was their twisted cruelty that killed the poor wee hooker, an alleged prostitute called Fifi, who died on May 18 2009, in Cisadane River, Tangerang. Her needless death occurred after she ran away from ‘public order officers’ who were conducting a raid on street prostitutes.
    It is said by witnesses that the gutless scum pelted Fifi with stones as she jumped into the river, and continued doing so until she died of exhaustion, unable to reach the river bank. The girl drowned in terror, No charges, no convictions
    Police and auxies alike are infamous for their abuse of women. I read an article in the JP about druggie girls picked up by cops, then sexually abused. One was blindfolded and gang-raped for five days. No charges, no convictions.
    The guy quoted in the story, a man named Ricky Gunawan of the Jakarta Legal Aid Institute, told reporters that not some but ALL of the women his team spoke to in Tangerang’s women’s correctional facility had been ‘forced to have sexual relations with police’ or made to strip naked in the street for ‘searches.’

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