Religion of Peace

Dec 7th, 2006, in IM Posts, by

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125 Comments on “Religion of Peace”

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  1. avatar Ihaknt says:
    December 23rd, 2006 at 6:58 am

    Hi JKS, thank you for your kind offer. I’m only curious where you got your fact no.5 from (sounds like a perfume brand. :) ) But Mat Malaya seems to want to know where you got ALL your facts from. Thank you and Merry Xmas.

  2. avatar Hassan says:
    December 31st, 2006 at 8:12 pm

    Ihaknt: to verify the truth of the things I said about Ismail, we can simply ask Ismail about it. hey, where is the guy anyway? Anyway, you can verify that by yourself, just open the older threads in this website and read some of our dear Ismail’s previous statements. You can then be the judge of that.

    Dimp: why? Simple, because I don’t hate non-Muslims. Don’t take my words for it, as I said you can open some older threads here in Indonesia matters and read some of my old remarks.

    Anyway, I’m sorry if i gave you the impression that i hated non-Muslims. Don’t let my rather harsh and direct demeanour when commenting on issues here gave you the wrong idea. There is a thin but distinct line between “hate” and “argumentative”. I just have a certain point of view on things and always stood firm on the things i believed in. Cheers. :)

  3. avatar Ismail says:
    December 31st, 2006 at 11:22 pm

    Hassan, i am arround, i just sat back and read stuff people write, let me correct an impression, my father did not convert to Islam, he was born a Muslim, like i was.

    Mohammed khafi sir, let me explain how Christians use the old testement, the scripture you quoted is one of the reasons why the old testament lost it literal use by Christians, because JESUS has fulfilled it, he also said, when he was on the cross that IT IS FINISHED, in other words no need for anymore ram killing and all the sacritices and ceremonies that occured in the old testament, because JESUS(he was called the lamb of God too) fulfilled it and Jesus’s death and ressurection ushed us into the NEW testament or convenant. In fact that is what the whole gospel is all about. Same happened to our sins, if we recieved the finished work of redemption, all our sins and past are forgiven and forgetten.no need for anymore sacrifice or a new massage. this is why Mohammed is rejected by the Christian church and based my study he his indeed a fake, not a prophet(no prophecy either) and Allah is not the God of the bible, because they are different on all account and demands

    i do hope you understood what i explained above, again the old testament is NARRATIVE and not INSTRUCTIVE, but we learn alot about God’s nature and relationship with the Jews and ultimately the Christian from the old testament, and we can see in it, the prophesies about Christ. we read the old testament, but inteprete it in the light of the words and deeds of Christ and we know its still word of God, but God fulfilled his Word and gave us the new convenant or testement. which is how we became Christains.

    Islam in my opinion is a the biggest tool of the devil, because its sides with devil on everything Christ Jesus rejected. mohammed stood against the words of Christ all the way, then went to reject his massage, rejected his divinity.

    i am glad that as a Muslim, i found Christ and was saved from the satanic hold of Islam, Islam will distroy the world. you can defend it all you want, and call the bible anything you like,then go to call me a bigot, like Hassan normally do. GOD loves you and he wants to have a relationship with you.Islam is looking for submission.Jesus is looking for redemption.

    guys, telling the truth of the evil of Islam is not hate.i love Muslims with the love of Christ and want them to know the true meaning love, God’s love.hate has no place in Christ, Even when he was been killed on the dreadful cross he said, “forgive them because they know not what they do”. Mohammed assasinated a poet, because he was insulted. note the difference.

    have a wonderful Christ filled new year.

  4. avatar Ismail says:
    January 1st, 2007 at 2:59 am

    Fanglong, i just read your reply, believe me it was refreshing that i was not called names and i am going to reply as much as i can.

    well i guess you really tried and i will just take a few of the things you said and explain them. i have Mohammed Khafi’s writings and to an extent i wish Muslims were like him,but unfortunately they are not, and to an extent he is a reformist but i dare say he will not have much success.

    On polygamy, I said the so called prophet(your sublime example) had over ten wives and Muslims say it because of war and my answer was and still is, why can’t they simply build a widows home and orphanage, is it harem too, why must a so called prophet marry 10 wives and the best reason is that they are widows.Question! if its God desire for men to marry one wife in the Quran,why not simply say it. Jesus did not mince words about it, he was indeed clear. Mohammed Khafis explanation was just a humane attempt, non-the-less unIslamic.

    You said “every part of the Quran is a work of art” my question is simply, in what language?. please go read the Quran.its absolute nonsence, no set pattern, no chronology, yes, it sounds good in Arabic that is suppose to be art. my brother that is laughable.the Quran is not more art than the scribble of a chicken on the sand, mobi dick is a far better work. hello, translat to Arabic it will sound good too..there is no music in the Quran, no art. in its conformity to literal art it fails miserably.the Quran is mumble-jumble nonsense riddle with historical error and untold contradictions. i hear Muslims say and write about science in the Quran hmmmm…. like sperm is from the backbone….and all the twist rubbish.

    you said “paradise is no sexual orgies, that its just a way to explain paradise”, your prophet and all could not find words to explain paradise, he had to use women and orgies…ouch. but then sir, you don’t even know your Islam at all, because it was literal in it context. please see your alim or imam to explain it. your attempt to retranslate the Quran is a “shirk” I hope you know.

    hey sir, incase you do not know your prophet is dead and gone, the sahih suggested he died of food poisoning and that shows he was mortal and quite dead, you believe what you want he his a dead man. Jesus Died and he raised from the dead and he his alive and he his coming back and that is the real meaning of being alive

    there is quite a bit you did not reply to, please find answers to them. by the way sleeping with a 9 yr old when your a 54 yr old PROPHET is simply madness and only Muslims explain it away.that simple.

    Again you told me to read mohammed Khafi post on the edict to kill al-kafir and you went on to explain that killing kafir is only when being defensive. if you and mohammed want i can show where your prophet killed without any provocation and mind you Khafi do not believe in the hadit and the sunnah. that means if i take the Quran literally, you guys will have a lot to explain. guess what if you want we can work through this.

    in all sir, i sense you don’t know anything about Islam but you love and will defend it, Islam is vile and again satanic, Mohammed kafir has rejected most of classical Islam except the Quran, and that is why no matter what he says i see him as an apostate, if we go to pakistan or any Islamic strong hold together we will both be killed. i suggest you come up with an authentic reply that conforms to you Islam

    finally you mentioned Indonesia as a good Muslim country. I had to laugh, but i think they are getting there with the new wave Islamic leaders springing up.

    a Christian is one that lives and works the life of Christ, might not be as perfect but he wants to be like Christ in words and deeds. hitler killed with the help of Muslims over 5million Christians and 6 million Jews. i fear you are looking for moral equivalence to justify Islam, i am sorry you won’t find it. simply because Jesus said to love our enemy and pray for them and he was a against REVENGE. your prophet and Allah hate their enemies with vengance that still rings today.

    JKS, Muslims like to shout blasphamy infact they killed because of it, main while everything mohammed said about Christianity and its Christ is indeed blasphamy and out right insulting, but Christian do not carry placards around screaming heads off because we know that only God defends Himself.the God of the bible that is!

  5. avatar Mohammed Khafi says:
    January 1st, 2007 at 3:45 pm

    Ismail:

    Your beliefs obviously come from the Gospel according to John, which is the only Gospel which promotes the idea of Jesus as a Diety, does it not worry you that the Synpotic Gospels share a single common theme, whilst the Gospel which you follow differs in many respects from the other ones? All of these Gospels after all, are renderings of oral traditions and not considered to be of divine origin, just like the Sunnah in actual fact! Could the Synoptic Gospels be correct and Jesus is actually just a man, a prophet, and not actually the Son of God?

    The Synoptic Gospels all require adherence to Mosaic Law and grant redemption based on good works, helping the poor, sick, imprisoned, and needy whilst the Gospel according to John emphasises adherence to Jesus’s teachings as the earthly manifestation of God as expressed in Johns Gospel and the only requirement for redemption is the belief in Jesus as the Son of God.

  6. avatar Ismail says:
    January 2nd, 2007 at 12:48 am

    hello Mohammed Khafi, sir you did good but the problem is that you still a lot of Islam on your mind, you simply have to take the gospel as they present themselves.

    first, the gospel of mattew, focused on nothing in particular but lean heavely on the Jewish background of Jesus the messiah(Christ) and makes no case for the law as redemptive.

    the book of luke, focused on the words of Christs and what people said about him, but still made sure that his mission was clear.

    the book of mark, is what we call, the motion picture gospel because it dived right into the miracles the Son of God, and while he his still the son of man.

    the gospel of John however focused on the divinty to Christ.

    each writer was directed by the holy spirit to focused on a particular aspect of the Jesus the Christ.

    let me tell you what is common to all of them,

    he was born of a virgin mother
    he lived a sinless man, that even though he his divine, he took on the nature of man to show man that its possible to live right on earth.
    the died on the cross to pay the penalty for our sin, the reason he was born virgin in the first place.
    the resucrected from the dead, because he was the son of God. he his alive.

    sir you can disagree with me, but our bible contains the book of John and we will remove it because you just don’t LIKE it. its ok to disagree, i did too but i gave him a chance, i have come to know that he his real and alive.

    finally…..for God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son …. sir, good works is based and built on the full works of redemption. that is why a Christian can live like Christ and that is why we are sure of making heaven.

    Mohammed disagree with everythin Jesus taught and he gave liberties that Jesus taught to be sin. he was anti-Christ in all sense of the word.in fact he was against everything all the all the prophet stood. sir please take a closer look at mohammed and the Christ call Jesus.

    mohammed called people that were not prophet in any way prophets, i.e solomon and david and a lot of misses.

    please do not make the mistake of comparing the the synoptic gospel with the al-Quran. because they really show how fake the Quran is! unlike your assumed acertions, the did conform to the Gospel of John and that is part of our bible.

  7. avatar Tomaculum says:
    January 2nd, 2007 at 2:55 am

    he was born of a virgin mother
    And you believe it? You surely believe in Santa Claus, don’t you?
    finally”¦..for God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son “¦. sir,
    I’m sorry for the question, but who is the wife of God?
    That is always the same: every fanatic follower of a faith or religion says that the other faiths are wrong.

    Do you guys know, since when the monotheism is first being reported?
    It was Echnaton (one of the Pharaons) who first forced his folk to believe just in one god, Aton the sun god? Before this time polytheism were the normal faith. The newer monotheistic religions (Christianity, Islam etc) are believed to be the development of this Egyptian monotheism. And long before the Judaism and the Christianity started with their spreading, there are already some of monotheistic faiths: the followers of Zarathustra who believed in Ahura Mazda, the one God faith of the ionian nature philosophy.
    And the Old Testament, which is the source of the new Testament, is not so peaceful as many want to believe.
    You can read in the Bibel:
    “Destroy their altars and wipe their idols out”.
    “You shouldn’t spare them”.
    Why not trying to understand the other side and to be tolerant? They are Gods creature too.

    It sounds like a child:” My toy is the best.”.
    Peace!!

  8. avatar Ismail says:
    January 2nd, 2007 at 7:30 am

    Tomaculum, hahahaha… I had to laugh when i read your post, there is alot you probably will not understand at the moment, but guess what its ok, there is what we Christians call a miracle, it might be hard for you to grab, oh by the way we also believe in raising the dead and praying for the sick and they actually get healed, we see broken homes restored and on…… yes the virgin birth too, we also see people like you, that simply think the Christian faith is laughable become Christian. its all a miracle really.

    please fill free to carry on. by the way, you are right about the old testement but guess what, it also promised the new testament or a new convenant and its called grace and that is what Jesus brought you and i. so the old testament for us, Christians, is purely narrative and not instructive, we simply follow the the words and deed of the miracle called Jesus Christ please read his words, its in the new testament.

    i guess mohammed felt like restoring the old testament,grace is just too simple for him and lots of people today, then he simply went overboard with lies and falsehood and gave the world,the biggest blood letting overgrown cult called Islam.if you don’t believe me watch the news please!

    you can junk up those philosphy crap,i am sure it gives you some comfort i guess. its just precisely what Jesus said, “its from the father of lies the devil”, and mohammed seem to have sided with him(devil) rather nicely. all this is doing precisely what they are engineered to do keeping people hating the truth Christ and never seeing that we need to be saved from sin and have assurance of heaven.But the Christ of the bible is real and he his not a myth or a fary tale. he his still making people whole today.

  9. avatar Tomaculum says:
    January 2nd, 2007 at 12:40 pm

    Ismail:
    amen and stay how you are.
    Poor Jesus, sacrificed by his “Father” for nothing.
    He (God) and Jesus surely didn’t and don’t expect any bullheaded and narrow minded followers.
    I always thought, that Jesus tried to spread peace in this sh*tty world. I see, his target is failed. And not at least because of people like you, who don’t understand his (Jesus) messages.
    Poor Jesus, poor world, poor Ismail.
    “Love your neighbour like yourself” (Marcus 12/31, Mattheus 22/39). One of the most important maxim in the Christianity.

  10. avatar 1ndra says:
    January 2nd, 2007 at 3:31 pm

    I have a converted missionarist priest tells that :
    There’s no trinity in old and new testament, it just add on
    Jesus was baptised at 30 in Jordan river. He’s confused where’s Jesus before that, is he god enough? No, he was a prophet.
    Muhammad be a prophet at 40, and Muhammad is not God.
    He was tested by devil three times, why god is being tested by his creation

    The new testament writer was Paulus. Lucas, Matius followed in a few decade.
    Bible has been overwrited/changed in times. Quran isnt.
    New born child sinner. In Islam all new born are pure, free from sin, even born from zina.
    Lukas 2:21 vs Galatia 5:2
    ‘Spread the Bible in earth’ vs ‘Jesus: I’m not being sent except only for lost sheeps, Israel’
    Muhammad as a prophet has been writtein in Bible before but the verse was deleted and prohibited to distributed.

  11. avatar Ihaknt says:
    January 2nd, 2007 at 4:00 pm

    Tom

    There’s no point arguing with f***ing Ismail. Waste of time, might as well talking to a mirror, at least you know you’re talking to a good looking lad ;) . Seriously he is just a bad example of Christianity. Most of my friends are Christians, and they are great and very open about things and TOLERANT! And yes, if we only see him then yes Jesus’s target failed. But there are many good Christians out there, let’s embrace it! Oh happy nu year!

  12. avatar 1ndra says:
    January 2nd, 2007 at 4:45 pm

    Not a Muslim not yet a Christian :D

    Well, now lets get back to harmonies and peace. :)

  13. avatar 1ndra says:
    January 2nd, 2007 at 4:49 pm

    Religion is religion, peace is how the followers carried it out.

  14. avatar Ismail says:
    January 2nd, 2007 at 5:42 pm

    Ihaknt, helo sir/madam, you can call me anything you want, i suppose, if i come here and tell you how wonderful the “religion of peace” is, i will be acceptable and i will be just the Christian you like, nice and dandy.well i am sorry I can’t ’cause that will be lying. you find quite easy to call me names and all that, but guess what its ok.

    1ndra,.its matters what you think, but i am sorry can’t but tell things the way i see it.i guess i will offend some but for that i am sorry. not sorry though for tell the truth about Islam mohammed and the mega cult called Islam.

    finally, i am sorry its not true when you said and i quote “Religion is religion, peace is how the followers carried it out” religious tenet and teaching is what sharp our lives,
    if you statement is true then your religion is a waste of you time and its demanded devotion.

  15. avatar Ismail says:
    January 2nd, 2007 at 6:12 pm

    1andra, the converted priest, like so many others like him don’t have monoply on Christianity and we don’t have need for scholars like you do in Islam.

    consider the bible for yourself, your understanding must be researched carefully before you take a position.until you have done that you can’t pass judgement on another man’s words, perhaps the ex-priest was lying, you will never know because you have no reference or comparative position.

    the Christian massage is quite simple, its state carefully that we all have sinned and that our good works alone can’t get us out of the panelty for our sin and because we are sinners we can’t get out by our-self and God’s justice demand purnishment, but that was when the miracle call the LORD Jesus came on the scene and paid the price once and for all and that, is the GOOD NEWS, the gospel, then when become saved, he then empowers us to live right by his holy spirit.that means we become Christ-like(Christian), heaven is assured, not maybe but surely and it gets better from there………

    if you can, feel free to ignore and but in the privacy of your home give Jesus a chance to prove himself… the bible says “taste and see that the lord his good”

  16. avatar 1ndra says:
    January 2nd, 2007 at 7:12 pm

    the mega cult called Islam.

    Hmm, dont forget to add the mega cult from constantine. :)

  17. avatar 1ndra says:
    January 2nd, 2007 at 7:15 pm

    consider the bible for yourself, your understanding must be researched carefully before you take a position.until you have done that you can’t pass judgement on another man’s words, perhaps the ex-priest was lying, you will never know because you have no reference or comparative position.

    And about the converted, it’s not just only one. They dont know each others but they share the same views. And they have been studying Quran when they’re priest to compare with their Bible and sure the history. Priest that have been doctrined as missionarist but later converted because they found something wrong and something right…

  18. avatar 1ndra says:
    January 2nd, 2007 at 7:20 pm

    Maybe I’ll do crime and god will be punished in hell for that, and I’ll go right to heaven :)

    Not in Islam, our sin is our sin, no inheritance sin, all new born are pure and clean.

  19. avatar 1ndra says:
    January 2nd, 2007 at 8:51 pm

    We’ll see the Jesus or in my, Isa as, in the end of days. I’ve read somewhere that he’ll come to earth and tells the truth. And maybe freed some sheeps that arent his.

  20. avatar Ihaknt says:
    January 3rd, 2007 at 5:38 am

    Ismail…have fun swimming in bitterness and hatred.

  21. avatar Dimp says:
    January 3rd, 2007 at 5:58 am

    Hi Ismail,

    I thought you as a Christian are supposed to be following Jesus teaching, since when does this include “hatred”?

  22. avatar Ismail says:
    January 3rd, 2007 at 8:15 am

    1ndra, i do believe you have a right to believe that, i guess we can wait to see who is right, we can’t both be sadly, one has be God and the other satan, not the type you stone in mecca! . if you ever you need an assurance of God’s love and certainty of heaven, do think a bit about Jesus. constantine….do spend a bit of time reading, it will help.

    Ihaknt and Dimp, i figure you guys need to slow down a bit with this hate thing,i hate no one, but i stand against hate and that is what Islam is! you guys just rant about my hate and bitterness and that simply isn’t me.believe it or not. but…. you have Islam on your mind so i guess i can understand your ……

    i think, it will be helpful to defend your religion and show how wrong i am or ignore me altogether,because, the way you guys carry on, its sadly shows that Islam has no legitimate, reasonable defence and its a bad showing on your part.

    maybe i should tell you one more time. I only speak against hate=Islam. I can’t hate Muslims or anyone at that, because of the words of Jesus,just because of HIM I don’t call people names or anything like that,but when you have Islam on your mind, yes people talk the way you guys do.

    same thing happened when people where saying the truth about hitler and the Nazis(really the same ideology mohammed and Islam) i guess the world new better a bit too late………..

    ironically, mohammed(by far worse) and hitler have the same enemies, freedom, Jews and Christianity.

    please do take a close look at the ideologies before you hate me any further.

  23. avatar Ihaknt says:
    January 3rd, 2007 at 8:25 am

    Ihaknt and Dimp, I figure you guys need to slow down a bit with this hate thing, I hate no one, but I stand against hate and that is what Islam is! You guys just rant about my hate and bitterness and that simply isn’t me. Believe it or not. But, you have Islam on your mind so I guess I can understand your..

    You’re so easy to fish. It isn’t me, it isn’t me, typical! FYI Dimp is a devout Christian, as for me I am a non-practising Moslem. But I believe in God and in Islam but not the Islam that people now perceive. If you wanna believe it’s evil then so be it. It’s more fun seeing you taking the bait and persistently defending yourself. More entertaining to read your rant. I can’t be bothered defending anything. I am still hungover from NYE!

  24. avatar Ismail says:
    January 3rd, 2007 at 8:32 am

    1andra, i suggest you do you own study, you have nothing to lose then, ’cause they(ex-priest) could like mohammed have the anti-Christ spirit,some call it demons you need to do your own study.be warned, if you do a genuine, authethic and anbaised study, you just might love Jesus more than you bargain for.

    i am afriad i have nothing to add to this post, so i will not be replying anymore on this post or topic, not that you guys care anyway, its just out of respect.

    please remember speaking against a faith or religion have nothing to do with hate, because they are not humans, its just an idea.afterall you prophet rejected vehemently Christian,Jews and pagans, expressing nothing less than hate and disdane for them, so if you hold me as hateful, you must say the same for your prophet. no double standard sirs.except if you have Islam on your mind……

    do have a wonderful God -loving Year.

  25. avatar Ihaknt says:
    January 3rd, 2007 at 8:36 am

    Oooohh poor Ismail is chucking a tantrum…There there my child, we are just teasing you…bla bla bla that’s all i hear from you. Well it has been fun picking on you Ismail, have a good life to you too.

  26. avatar Dimp says:
    January 3rd, 2007 at 8:38 am

    Hi Ismail,

    I stand by my point you say that you follow Jesus teaching, yet you are saying that Islam = hate?

    Hang on, Hitler’s enemy is Christianity? Now I am confused.

    I think you are the one who need to understand what is the meaning of “love” and “hatred”.

  27. avatar sgn says:
    January 3rd, 2007 at 10:07 am

    Hi All,

    There are people who claimed themselves as Moslems but they are not acting as the real Moslems.

    There are people who claimed themselves as Christians but they are not acting as the real Christians.

    Be aware.

    sgn

  28. avatar Ihaknt says:
    January 3rd, 2007 at 10:16 am

    F*** religion. they’re nothing but trouble. Tolerate each other and invite each other to parties i reckon.

    And yes SGN i agree with you. But you have to add,

    There are people who claimed themselves as Buddhist but they are not acting as the real Buddhist.

    There are people who claimed themselves as Hindus but they are not acting as the real Hindus.

    and etc…the list goes on.

  29. avatar sgn says:
    January 3rd, 2007 at 10:27 am

    Dear All,
    I am not John Lennon’s fan, but his song (below) always reminds me…..
    Hope for you (who believe in God), too.

    Imagine (John Lennon)

    Imagine there’s no Heaven
    It’s easy if you try
    No hell below us
    Above us only sky
    Imagine all the people
    Living for today

    Imagine there’s no countries
    It isn’t hard to do
    Nothing to kill or die for
    And no religion too
    Imagine all the people
    Living life in peace

    You may say I’m a dreamer
    But I’m not the only one
    I hope someday you’ll join us
    And the world will be as one

    Imagine no possessions
    I wonder if you can
    No need for greed or hunger
    A brotherhood of man
    Imagine all the people
    Sharing all the world

    You may say I’m a dreamer
    But I’m not the only one
    I hope someday you’ll join us
    And the world will live as one

    sgn

  30. avatar 1ndra says:
    January 3rd, 2007 at 10:27 am

    i am afriad i have nothing to add to this post, so i will not be replying anymore on this post or topic, not that you guys care anyway, its just out of respect.

    Ok people, lets back to topic and harmony now, the flamer has gone…:D

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