Religion of Peace

Dec 7th, 2006, in IM Posts, by

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125 Comments on “Religion of Peace”

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  1. avatar Mohammed Khafi says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 6:52 pm

    Mat Malaya said:

    U like to insult Moslems and mohamad. I think the person u should insult and condemned is yourself because you are the one who read the history of mohamad and Islam from a stupid and uneducated Moslems writer who simply wrote B..S”¦!

    Unfortunately he seems to be getting most of his incriminating and destructive information from the books of Hadith. He must have been brainwashed into believing those ridiculous stories as a child! It would appear that he has also been brainwashed as an adult if he thinks he can justify his attitude towards other religions as being from the peaceful and loving teachings of Nabi Isa.

    Mat Malaya also said:

    Those extremist will be arrested and will be send to unknown place for 3-7 years and some up to ten years without being charged in any court. These people are very very dangerous to the country. I dont know what happened inside there, but one thing for sure, after the release, they became a good boy. This is what we call Internal Security Act.

    If mohamad is still alive, surely He will kill all those Moslems for killing innocent people.

    Way to go Mat!!! Human and judical rights destroyed in one paragraph, portrayal of The Prophet as an unforgiving killer the next, hardly the Islamic values which some of us are striving for.

    It is obvious to me that you have both been reading the same books! and I don’t mean Al Quran.

  2. avatar Ihaknt says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 6:59 pm

    Ismail darling…all I said to you is not to live in anger and hatred…AND for you to have a cool shower and have a cup of tea. and yes i know you sooooooo can go on and on and on. You said you have no hate, fair enough, you’re the only one who knows how you really feel. Me not even gonna fight with you as it is pointless. But your ‘critical’ view is inflamatory, so don’t be surprised if you get attacked here, and it seems the hole you’re diggin is gettin deeper. Well, God bless you if you’re a good Christian, hope you will finde happiness and peace.

  3. avatar Tomaculum says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 8:07 pm

    Ismail,

    i have made it pretty clear, i hate the nazi ideology same way i have Islam, infact they are breath from the same demon. hate.

    Yes I do hate Islam.

    A little question: what about your hate? Divine?

    but everything i say is the truth and well thought out.

    :)

  4. avatar Ronald says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 8:45 pm

    Hello Ismail, Honestly i have the same opinion as you do but i have no gut to tell it in this forum coz i just try my best not to hurt others. maybe other moslmes here have the same things about Christianity but they just don’t want to hurt others. Just in case you forget, i remind you to concentrate more on doing what Jesus tells us to do than on such a thing like this.

    Question for Moslems : is saying “Merry Christmas” to Christians forbidden according to Qur’an? coz i was told by my Moslem friend about it.

  5. avatar Gada says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 8:45 pm

    OK, none of you want to try to answer my question, all of you are busy arguing on issues that would never reach any conclusion …

    Well …
    ??: Where was the prophets born?

    Answer:
    Prophets were born amongst stubborn people.

    I think all of you are expecting a prophet will be born in Indonesia …
    Lucky me, I am far away from Indonesia right now, and I am more than happy to believe on one prophet which had been born thousands years ago and never expecting a new one ….

    Peace and have a nice day,
    Gada

  6. avatar Ihaknt says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 8:51 pm

    Ronald, personally I dont give a sh*t if it’s forbidden or not. We live in majemuk society so I see it as being tolerant to other religion, which is one of the things that the Qur’an teaches – tolerance – which probably one that many people ignore, Moslems or not.

    And I LOOOOOOOOOOOVE Xmas parties!!!! SO, me being a big believer of COMMON SENSE, I think tolerance is very important, surely I wont go to hell just because I wish you a Merry Xmas. I am glad you commented on Ismail’s post with a “cool” head, hope he can somehow calm down.

    Have a good Xmas for Christians, and a Happy Nu Year to YOU ALL!

    ——

    Gada, if you already knew the answer, why asked? You know these people would only scan read D . Me far away from Indo too”¦heheheh.

    Patung, this is a good website! Well done!

  7. avatar Mohammed Khafi says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 9:52 pm

    ronald said:

    Question for Moslems : is saying “Merry Christmas” to Christians forbidden according to Qur’an?

    For true Muslims this is no problem, as Allah teaches us to respect other religions, and all the prophets.

    And there are, certainly, among the People of the Book, those who believe in Allah, in the revelation to you, and in the revelation to them, bowing in humility to God: They will not sell the Signs of God for a miserable gain! For them is a reward with their Lord, and God is swift in account. 3:199

    Surely those who believe, and those who are Jews, and the Christians, and the Sabians, whoever believes in Allah and the Last day and does good, they shall have their reward from their Lord, and there is no fear for them, nor shall they grieve. 2:62

    Say (O Muslims): We believe in God and that which is revealed unto us and that which was revealed unto Abraham, and Ishmael, and Isaac, and Jacob, and the tribes, and that which Moses and Jesus received, and that which the prophets received from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them, and unto Him we have surrendered. 2:136

  8. avatar JKS says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 11:11 pm

    to : Dimp,
    and Ihaknt.

    wow ….ur 72 virgins related questions better AA or YZ reply…they are expert in that field ,……thought they are Moslem leader too.
    I dont understand when we revealed the facts of Islam ….many of you become upset….face it men and think clearly.
    We can reveal also the facts of Christian…..King Solomo f..k 1000 women…..see if any Christian upset ? or perhaps this is the difference between religions with love affection and other with sword and kill the Jews ? and religion with one wife and 4 wives? ….well, you are the judge.

  9. avatar Ismail says:
    December 16th, 2006 at 4:10 am

    Ronald, if that is the way you feel, its ok, I am sorry if i appear hard and unrelenting, its not my intention, i just want to see Muslims confront the truth. i have seen and experience Islam first hand, it almost killed my mother, my sister was beaten mercilessly, and some come here to build tales of Islam from there myopic perception. i took time to study the life of Jesus and the so called “prophet” mohammed, inspite of the fact that imams tell me that the bible is corrupted and altered, yet i was moved by the person of Jesus. he had no slips, made no mistakes, was sure about his massage,and i just loved him. then i went back to study mohammed and i was in shock for days, he was evil in all ways and I had to confront the issues, I had to get Islam off my mind. and suddenly i could understand what Jesus ment.
    if you choose to be nice and dandy about Islam, I can’t afford it, i believe that it will distroy everything beautiful, the only nice Muslims is a non-practising ones, if they have Islam on there mind, then you most certianly will find “harshness in them” according to mohammed, and if they are nice to you its either “taqqiya” or deceit according to mohammed “war is deceit”.
    once again this is the fault of Islam, a Muslims only fault is to take it! hook, line and sinker. its there desire to worship and love God, but i am afriad they are decieved by the devil into believing someone like mohammed who stood against everything Christ stands for= an anti-Christ.

    Please understand that have no hate for Muslims, i love them because Jesus died for them too, saying the truth is not hate, please don’t be intimidated into believing that it is, its simply not true. sir, Muslims are dashing the bible everyday and they won’t stop, they can tell you they respect your religion, its not true, they can’t help themselves, there no teaching of love in the Quran, like it is in the bible. they validate Islam by dashing Christianity.

    If the God of the bible is the same with the god mohammed taugth, then he his a failed God, fortunately i glad to tell you, that they can’t possibly be the same because, they are different in all WAYs, on every subject and moral requirment, so they are different gods, mohammed simply validate his god by bring in familiar figures in the bible into the Quran. that is called deception!!

    Tomaculum, no hate of a person is divine or acceptable, but telling the truth is not hate and can’t ever be, think about what propel Muslims that kill, perhaps you will see the difference.

    Muslims are the biggest victims of Islam, our suffering in there hands is a by-product of the damage done to there hearts and minds.

    ———-

    Mat Malaya, please don’t be nice to Christians, the fact is that, Christianity is build on Christ
    you said and i quote:

    I dont simply bombard Christians because i know, if i do that, other fellow Christians will hurt. I can dig out everything bad about Christians (but not Jesus, because it is a sin in Islam to not having faith in Jesus) and i can put down all the facts from my own version why i did not take Christians as my religion and bla”¦bla”¦.bla”¦ (as what u did to Islam)

    The fact is that, there is Nothing about Jesus to critizes, he was above sin, he was blameless and he was divine. as Christian we fail to live like him, that is not his fault, its our fault, but we are growing in him and getting better.

    Please, critizes us as Christian, we will see our faults and we will change and get better, we will not kill you, or carry placard and shout death to you. we will go back and search. then come out with a defence or repentance.

    If you care, i will tell you about your prophet, you can go check and prove me wrong, remember i used to know him too.

  10. avatar Ihaknt says:
    December 16th, 2006 at 6:15 am

    JKS, Why pick on me? I just said you can do what you think Moslem can do but deal with the consequences. I wasn’t upset actually, you can do what you want, but there’s always consequences. Fair enough right? It’s a fair statement.

  11. avatar Tomaculum says:
    December 16th, 2006 at 1:09 pm

    Ismail,
    if you didn’t recognise it: I just citated your statements, which are antithetic.
    You wrote that you hate Islam now you say you don’t. Which one is the right statement?
    The truth? What is the truth? And the question was ironic. Maybe you understand the intention now, hm? And well thought out? Hmm???
    I think Ronald is right, maybe we shouldn’t shout our hate (everybody has something he hates) from the rooftops, should we?
    If you hate Islam, it is your own business. But spreading your hate (citate from some of your statements) and knowing that this can aggravate the hostility?
    I wonder if you have the bravery to say all of your statements in this blog to a Moslem face to face. It is simple and safe to bully in a virtual world, but to do something in the real world?

  12. avatar Mohammed Khafi says:
    December 16th, 2006 at 2:04 pm

    Ismael,

    Ismael, I know you have rejected Al Quran, but I believe that all of the Scriptures are from God so just read these verses from The Bible and reflect on them.

    “Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called sons of God” Matthew 5:9

    A “peacemaker” is one who seeks to bring harmony and reconciliation between those who are estranged. Peacemaking seeks to produce right relationships between persons.

    “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven.

    Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name? Did we not drive out demons in your name? Did we not do mighty deeds in your name?’

    Then I will declare to them solemnly, ‘I never knew you. Depart from me, you evildoers.’

    Everyone who listens to these words of mine and acts on them will be like a wise man who built his house on rock.

    The rain fell, the floods came, and the winds blew and buffeted the house. But it did not collapse; it had been set solidly on rock.

    And everyone who listens to these words of mine but does not act on them will be like a fool who built his house on sand.

    The rain fell, the floods came, and the winds blew and buffeted the house. And it collapsed and was completely ruined.” Matthew 7: 21-27

    Please don’t be the fool who built his house on sand.

    You are obviously a man of faith, please try to redirect your hatred and use your energy on trying to make things better.

  13. avatar Ismail says:
    December 16th, 2006 at 4:58 pm

    my brother Khafi, its always a pleasure reading your post, believe me when i say that, and i do understand what you have said and i agree with them, but you must agree with me that some times we have to be frank with each other and say it like we see it, i mean no disrespect when i say the things i say, but its the truth. sometimes its hurts to say them.

    i know for a fact there is going to be blood shed in horn of Africa, its eminent and no Muslim organisation is doing anything about it, they just seat back and shant “the Islam is a religion of peace” mantra. it is sad, please take a look at darfur, over 200,000 thousand people have been killed and OIC aligned with sudan to prevent international community and the victims are black Muslims.take a look at thailand, inspite of the concessions, the killing in the south by Muslims goes on, same in philipines. this fact a unsettling and Muslims just seat and practice “taqqiya”. forgive me,in other not to sound Incorrigible, i will temper my feeling with modesty.

    i fear, sir, you can’t do much and you are on the wrong side, even educated Muslim like Hassan disagrees with you, how much more, the illitrate Muslims who simply take the words of the alim or imam without any means of checking,cause there mother tongue is not holy enough for Islam, so they hardly understand what they say.i dare to say, you are trying to redeem a religion that is completely irredeemable and in my opinion, you stance is built on shaky grounds.

    finally sir, as much i will like to remain your friend,if i ever was (’cause you are perhaps the only Muslim that haven’t called me names), we must be frank in our dealings, the Quran you hold dearly rejects everything the bible stands for, I understand some of your argurment, but, when you read the Quran, they are not as apparent as try to make them.in most case you draw your conclusions from your worldview and not Islam.part of the will of my father is to tell the truth no matter how hard and painful.
    thank you.

    Tomaculum, i think you do have a point, i am sorry i did not mean to shout my hate about Islam, i was only trying to show where hate is spent, i was merely saying i have not hate for Muslims, just Islam. i know it offends you, for that i am sorry.

    ——-

    Tomaculum, i probably will say it to there face, i do it all the time, i am pass the fear of death or hateful words, but when i say it to there face, they will not see hate, like you seem to see in the virtual world,i always call it as it is.

    when i talk to Muslims face to face, they got mad and angry, but i insisted that i was not just saying it to hurt anyone and when they have come down, i simply tell them to prove me wrong ’cause ordinarily i just like to get along.but we have got to say the truth atleast the way we see it.and i know there are Muslims who simply want to worship and love God, the God of the bible.they want to feel his love and He wants to bare there burden and heal there pain, so i am encourage to share with Muslims.

    please, do try to read my post,hate is not my thing ’cause i am a Christian, and i say humbly.
    when you label me, i think you just being unfair,if you are a practicing Muslims or aspiring to, its mean you have got Islam on your mind, then i can understand your attack. just prove me wrong i will read it and respond according, i will understand that that’s the way you see it.

  14. avatar Fanglong says:
    December 16th, 2006 at 5:44 pm

    Hi Ismail!

    Just some rethorical answers to your rethorical questions.
    But I agree with many here that this typical dialogue has no end.
    I remarked you say you criticize Islam but not Muslims, ideas and not people.
    If I could tell you my deep thought : relax, just relax — the “sense of God” is utter freedom, infinite generosity, unrelenting compassion.

    show me the music and art in the Quran.

    Every page of the Qoran is a work of art as for calligraphy and literary style (as a Frenchman I use mainly Jacques Berque’s translation & the bilingual edition by Denise Masson & Sobhi el-Saleh) ; for music, just read it aloud & if you have some sense of music, you’ll enjoy (if it’s not too late)…

    show me loving and while you are it, you can show how to love your enemy.

    Excuse me, Ismail, do you love your enemy? Why do you hate Satan, the enemy of all? Has Prophet Muhammad ever denied Nabi Isa’s teachings on love? Why repeat them? The Prophet has been completing the revelation.

    show me faithfulness to once [one's] wife, as a antidote to the sin called polygamy.

    M. Khafi has quoted all necessary extracts about the right conditions of “polygamy”; faithfulness is not the antidote to polygamy but to adultery: adultery is just a cheat plus a risk of making “parentless” children. Cf. commonsense.

    show its [it's] wrong to sleep [?] with “slave that your right hand possess”

    Same case as before.

    show its wrong to kill kafir-infidel

    For that, please read the text shown by M. Khafi in a comment to the post “Ninih Muthmainnah Muhsin“, Dec. 9, 7:12 pm. This is a very important text, and bârakallâhufîk, Si Moh., for the information. About 22:39, “udhina l-ladhîna yuqâtalûna bi’annahum dlulimû…”, J. Berque notes that “according to Zamakhsharî, [this is] the first verse allowing defensive struggle after *70* other verses prohibiting violence in general”.

    show me what heaven is like, in the Quran, if its not a place for sexual orgy.

    Paradise has nothing to do with orgies (the sexual pleasure is a metaphor of eternal bliss): the Book explains many things about it, that it is man’s ultimate abode, a stable place, a “garden” of peace & truth with many symbolic rivers, springs, palaces, flowers, fruit, beverages, rest, love, delight — but all these are “images”. Do you think that the Christian Paradise is above in the sky, & that a white-bearded God is seated on a throne in the middle of it with angels playing trumpet all around? This is called anthropomorphism.

    show me its a sin for you prophet to sleep with a 9yrs old while he his 54yrs.

    Do you mean he raped her? Prove it!

    show me its wrong for sunni to kill shiite or the other way around.

    Poor! Show me if it is not “bad” to be a Catholic killing Protestants, etc.

    show me that you are not worshipping a dead black stone,yet you all bow in its direction.

    The Ka’ba is a symbol as are all sacred places : this one is the Muslims’. It is more practical to bow towards an outer place than towards one’s own heart, the right temple… No-one worships a stone! Do you adore the wood or the plastic your Crucifix is made of?

    show me it wrong to greet a dead man, cause you greet mohammed 5 times a day.

    Prophet Muhammad is not a deadman : He is al-Insân al-Kâmil, the possible perfection of human kind, like Jesus for you (I wonder).

    show its wrong to drink camels urine cause your prophet thought its great.

    This one is too sublime for me…

    show me its ok to take Jews and Christians as friends, ’cause the Quran forbids it.

    No problem for that, please see above!

    show me a Muslims nation where freedom is certain.

    Here in Indonesia, isn’t it?

    show me that osama is not a true Muslim and you are.cause his image seat in you mosque atleast some.

    Show me Hitler is not a true what, Christian? Or Bush, to say it more stupidly…

    please show…….. and if i am wrong i will back track.

    Please trackback: you’re as wrong as a vexed & vengeful child!

    what i believe is irrelevant, but if you care i believe in Jesus, not religion.

    What you believe is irrelevant, indeed.
    May Jesus & Muhammad enlighten you some!

    Wassalaam!

  15. avatar JKS says:
    December 16th, 2006 at 7:21 pm

    Ihaknt, sorry dude, not personal, I thought the extremists don’t like my comments. I went to Moslem university and have many fine Moslem friends, well the consequence is now many Mohamad desciples are converted to Jesus desciples as people use their brain more nowadays.

    If you read Qur’an as I did, then you know that ‘holy man’ is a paedophile (married 9 years old girl) and sex maniac (many wives), you can compare with the other Holy man clearly.

    All ‘haji’ prayed to black stone within Kabaah, whilst Moslem tought to pray to the only Awloh, damn haji.

    I read once in Qor’an that the only way to Heaven must thru Isa Almasih (Jesus Christ) son of Mariam (Maria) not through ‘a sex maniac and a killer’.

    You can reveal many secrets and facts in your Qor’an, read it men, don’t be a Moslem by ID and turn you to extremists.

    In fact, Moslem and Christian are cousin in old testament, want to know more facts? Read by yourself (the poor fact is many of you can read Qor’an in Arabian but few of you can understand it).

  16. avatar Mohammed Khafi says:
    December 16th, 2006 at 7:59 pm

    JKS said:

    consequence is now many Mohamad desciples are converted to Jesus desciples

    ‘holyman’ is a paedophile (married 9 years old girl) and sex maniac

    all ‘haji’ prayed to black stone within Kabaah

    I read once in Qor’an that the only way to Heaven must thru Isa Almasih (Jesus Christ) son of Mariam (Maria)

    Where are your proofs for these outlandish statements having come from Al Quran, what is the number of the Surah and Ayat?

    Are you sure you have read Al Quran?

  17. avatar Tomaculum says:
    December 16th, 2006 at 8:27 pm

    Ismail, I’ll try again.
    I didn’t insinuate you something you haven’t done, I didn’t call you names. That isn’t my niveau.
    I just citate some passages out of your comments. and give my comments to it.

    when you label me, i think you just being unfair

    Your label is that what you wrote, isn’t it?

    BTW Ismail,
    I’m not a Moslem.

  18. avatar JKS says:
    December 16th, 2006 at 9:05 pm

    more facts of Islam and Moslem:
    1. Mohammad were murdered by his Jewish servant, therefore Islam extremists are happy if they can kill Jews as vengeance…its like the dog bite Mohammad’s butt…then he made rule all dogs to be “haram” for Moslem.
    Too bad for mohammad, his Jew servant did not bite him but poisoned him to death.
    Its not about the land they are fighting, Arabian got the land of oils, Jews got the land of olive, now they still live in their own land.
    Palestine hates Jews becos they never win the war agaisnt Israel, so the rest of Islam countries in the world….none of them can beat Israel.
    2. None statements in Qor’an tells Mohammad is in heaven now, but Jesus told he is in heaven to prepare the place for His desciples.
    3. Indonesia Moslems burnt, destroyed, closed more than 500 churches in Indonesia since Soeharto’s reign upto now but Christianity is getting stronger.
    4. Indonesia Moslems killed, looted, burnt, Chinese’s houses and properties and raped their ladies in May 1998.
    The survival chineses had to put ‘ Moslem’ or ‘haji’ in front of their houses to avoid those bastards attack.
    It is all Ok for Moslems as Mohammad taught them that way.
    5. Many westerners in Indonesia converted to Islam as they wanted to f..k Moslem ladies legally, more and more for free.
    They know pussy better than Qor’an.

    Any comments?

    ——

    Mohammed Khafi,
    I had Qor’an in Indonesian version and read it besides my Bible,
    but I was forced to leave my beloved country as I hate Islam extremists…in Indonesia , Islam treats Jews, Chinese and Christian as enemies more than evil, and I am Chinese Christian.
    I brought only my Bible, but I will give you reference in Qor’an about Isa Almasih (Jesus Christ) as the only way to Heaven, give your proxy email…I owe for this and I will email you soon or later once I get it.
    You may search more about Qor’an/ Islam/Moslem in below websites:
    - http://www.exMuslim.com/forum/viewtopic.php?=972
    Arabic version:
    http://www.aljazeera.net/programs/sha…/12/12-12-6.htm
    - http://Islamlib.com/
    - http://faithfreedom.org/debates5/shahzads.htm
    - http://www.Indonesia.faithfreedom.org
    -http://www.exMuslim.com/forum
    -http://shop.store.yahoo/conservative-campus-book-store/agtiinmiea.by.htm
    to get more news send to: ex-Islam-subscribe@yahoogroups.com

    Seek for the truth…and you will find it men, good luck to you.

  19. avatar Mohammed Khafi says:
    December 16th, 2006 at 10:31 pm

    JKS,

    I feel sorry for you, you obviously have a very sick and twisted mind, full of hatred.

    I see that you haven’t answered my question posted earlier? Too difficult for you.

    Yes we have problems in this country, but some of us are trying to resolve those issues and try and put things right, unlike yourself who appears to be trying to spread hatred and confrontation.

    ———-

    JKS,

    If you wish to find information on the true Islam I would suggest that you try:

    Free-Minds
    Muslim Wakeup!
    Averroes Foundation

    You will see that there is an Islamic path which advocates tolerance, understanding, democracy and the upholding of human rights.

    We need all the help we can get to change things here, unfortunately your confrontational attitude will only stiffen the resolve of the mislead to keep pushing their exclusionist agenda.

    I am sorry that you felt that you had to leave Indonesia, I have many friends here of all faiths who have stayed even though they have had good reason to leave. I am just thankful to God they have decided to stay and make their voices heard for a just and pluralistic society.

    I see from your last posting some softening of your attitude, and therefore I apologise for my previous comments which I think with hindsight were a little too personal.

    Please do not judge all of us by the majority who are misguided in their learnings and their teachings.

    My E-mail is mohdkahfi@yahoo.co.id

  20. avatar Tomaculum says:
    December 17th, 2006 at 12:49 am

    JKS,

    Any comments?

    OK, I’ll try.

    Palestine hates Jews becos they never win the war agaisnt Israel, so the rest of Islam countries in the world.

    If you follow the history of Palestine and israel carefully, you will find out, that the Palestine folk hate israel because they (the Israeli) had thrown out the Palestine folk out of their homeland (with the help of the allies/USA).

    None statements in Qor’an tells Mohammad is in heaven now, but Jesus told he is in heaven to prepare the place for His desciples.

    Really? Jesus told something and you believe it without doubt? You must be a happy and faithfull Christian. Show me the prove of this statement and I will go and pray again in the church.

    Indonesia Moslems killed, looted, burnt, Chinese’s houses and properties and raped their ladies in May 1998.

    It was horrible, I undergo the disturbance times after 1965, believe me, it was awfull. There were also Chinese victims (some friends of our family too).
    I should hate them. But I have achieved the simple knowledge, that both sides are responsible to this problem. And I try since then to campaign for peacefull living together and more understanding (in small circle at first), like the Christianity teaching.

    Many westerners in Indonesia converted to Islam as they wanted to f..k Moslem ladies legally, more and more for free. They know pussy better than Qor’an.

    No comment!

    Btw: I live among Christians in Europe. I undergo discrimination almost every day. They wouldn’t kill me (not now), but it is very painfull!! I wouldn’t say, that all of the Christian are racists.

  21. avatar Ihaknt says:
    December 17th, 2006 at 7:06 am

    JKS

    5. Many westerners in Indonesia converted to Islam as they wanted to f..k Moslem ladies legally, more and more for free.

    Very ignorant of you. You obviously hang out with the wrong crowds. My husband had to convert because the law in Indo forbids marriage between 2 different religions. Maybe if you bothered asking these so called bules some of them did it for love, not just for their dix. What do you mean by many? What is the percentage? My husband did it for the stupid paperwork, to cut thru the red tape, the stupid laws. If the bules you know did it for the reason you mentioned, then shame on them, I am sure they are as much as uneducated and ignorant as you. And no, I didnt force him to convert. He is still not a practicing Moslem and I doubt he ever will be. And I dont care much about it, because religion SHOULD NOT be forced.

    And the racist person is actually you. And if you knew me, I am sooooo not an extremist, quite the opposite actually. But I am not an atheist either. I am just tolerant but so increasingly annoyed but religioius fanatics as they mucking the world up.

    Yes, it’s good to be passionate about something JKS, but if people keep forcing their believes on each other, the issue will not be resolved and neither will achieve the win-win situation. We can also live harmoniously side-by-side if we try. SO WHY DONT WE??

  22. avatar Mat Malaya says:
    December 18th, 2006 at 1:32 pm

    Salam,

    Let me rectify my statement. “If Muhammad is still alive, surely He will PUNISH all those Moslems for killing innocent people”. We live by the rules. Heaven and hell were created for that purpose. there are kinds of punishments in Islam including Forgiveness.
    ———————————————–
    JKS,
    Where did you get that facts? They are truely crap. Trust me. I can put up all the mumbo jumbo things here about Christians and make you mad.what are you trying to prove actually? Please get your facts straight and stop believing all those nonsense website.
    ————————————————
    Tomaculum,
    You are fortunate being a Christians living in the middle of Christians community. I went through the same treatment and the worst thing is, I’m a Moslem. I’m really sick with their attitude, bragging out their ‘white supremacy’. ( Although some of them are totally losers and uneducated).

    Unfortunately, some of our asian friends here were duped by hollywood movies. They cannot differentiate between Christians and westerners as well as Islam and Arab world. What a pity. I call this people as “Frog lives under the coconut shell”.

    Salam

  23. avatar Ihaknt says:
    December 18th, 2006 at 1:47 pm

    JKS

    Actually having read your ‘facts’ for the second time (this time i laughed so hard!), again for no.5, why do they even have to convert to Islam to sleep with girls (the nice term is sleep in case you’re wondering)? They dont need to convert to anything to sleep with anyone. They just do it.
    And, just because they convert then that makes it legal to sleep with Moslem girls? NO.
    And if the Moslem girls force them to convert in order to be able to sleep with them or to marry them then they are divorced then it’s the girls problem/fault to force such thing in the first place.
    And if these foreigners wanted to sleep with (Moslem) girls and the girls said no, then they could just go on to the next one. They dont normally care or give a sh*t what religion we follow. They consider that part as something personal and normally wont ask until they know the others better. Where do you find these foreigners?
    And NO, converting your religion is not free. You have to pay for the paperwork.

  24. avatar Mohammed Khafi says:
    December 18th, 2006 at 3:00 pm

    Ismail,

    You are always rejecting the Old Testament saying that you follow only Jesus:

    Christians live by the words,ways and deeds of Jesus Christ. we have no obligation to old testament.

    Can you then explain to me the following various translations of the same verse:

    Matthew 5:17

    ——————————————————————————–
    NASB: “Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill. (NASB ©1995)
    ——————————————————————————–
    GWT: “Don’t ever think that I came to set aside Moses’ Teachings or the Prophets. I didn’t come to set them aside but to make them come true. (GOD’S WORD®)
    ——————————————————————————–
    KJV: Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
    ——————————————————————————–
    ASV: Think not that I came to destroy the law or the prophets: I came not to destroy, but to fulfil.
    ——————————————————————————–
    BBE: Let there be no thought that I have come to put an end to the law or the prophets. I have not come for destruction, but to make complete.
    ——————————————————————————–
    DBY: Think not that I am come to make void the law or the prophets; I am not come to make void, but to fulfil.
    ——————————————————————————–
    WEY: “Do not for a moment suppose that I have come to abrogate the Law or the Prophets: I have not come to abrogate them but to give them their completion.
    ——————————————————————————–
    WBS: Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill.
    ——————————————————————————–
    WEB: “Don’t think that I came to destroy the law or the prophets. I didn’t come to destroy, but to fulfill.
    ——————————————————————————–
    YLT: ‘Do not suppose that I came to throw down the law or the prophets — I did not come to throw down, but to fulfil;

  25. avatar Dimp says:
    December 18th, 2006 at 3:27 pm

    Hi MK,

    I have been some of your comments. Thanks for some wise words.

    What I have learnt is that all the “Holy Books” must not be interpreted word by word, if this is the case then I can still buy slaves and have multiple wives.

    This is my understanding, thus, I am a bit sceptical to some of the saying by Indonesia’s religious leaders who uses bits and pieces of the verses from the “Holy Books” to justify their actions.

    We as human beings were supposed to be the smartest creatures that ever walked this earth, shouldn’t we have common sense and be able to tell what is right and wrong?

  26. avatar Tomaculum says:
    December 18th, 2006 at 11:38 pm

    Mat Malaya:

    You are fortunate being a Christians living in the middle of Christians community. I went through the same treatment and the worst thing is, I’m a Moslem. I’m really sick with their attitude, bragging out their ‘white supremacy’. ( Although some of them are totally losers and uneducated).

    Deep in my heart I’m a Kejawen man (do you know it?). I lived as a formal Christian (in Indonesia we had and have to choose beetwen the world religions and it was not allowed to follow the Kejawen) beetwen whites in Europe and off course I feel their attitudes (my skin is still light brown, dear), which are based on racism. But you surely will find such attitudes also in Indonesia. And Mat Malaya, I have made this experience. I’m a mixed blood (Chinese and Javanese) and it is in the eyes of many people something less worth. You see, but I don’t hate the Chinese or the Javanese. I have demonstrated in Indonesia and in Europe, that I’m good (as human and in my job). And many of them respect me for my capacity. And the other, who can not learn? Let them live their live.

    Unfortunately, some of our asian friends here were duped by hollywood movies. They cannot differentiate between Christians and westerners as well as Islam and Arab world. What a pity. I call this people as “Frog lives under the coconut shell”.

    You’re 100%-ly right.

  27. avatar Hassan says:
    December 20th, 2006 at 10:35 pm

    To understand why Ismail does what he does we must know who Ismail is. Let’s try to get into his head, and what made him tick.

    Well folks, Ismail had admitted that his father converted to Islam and poor Ismail hated him for doing so. So the logical next step was to vent his anger towards his father by bashing Islam. He do not want to blame his father, no, no, his father was a good Christian before he converted, so the blame must be placed on Islam, the religion which had made our dear Ismail ‘lost’ his father.

    To me, that’s motive enough to be an Islam hater. Whatever we say to him is useless, he was on a crash course to ‘destroy’ Islam (at least on his mind) in revenge for ‘taking his dear father away’.

    About Ismail, he used to quote evil sounding verses from the Quran to bash Islam and thus make his religion feel more justified (admit it!) but then he was proven wrong again and again, proven that he had placed those verses out of context and hid some other verses. That certainly exposed his true character and also his lack of credibilty.

    Now, he seemed to abandoned those useless quotings and resort to raise controversial questions about Islam, but our own Fanglong and Muhammad khafI had given appropriate answers to Ismail’s rhetorical questions.

    As for JKS, he/she must be a new kid on the block in the field of spreading hate and intollerance, a long with a few other baseless lies. Something that will only do him and his religion no good. Don’t idolise Ismail, JKS. Muhammad (pbuh) killed by his Jew servant? tsk…tsk… If you believed that JKS then you’ll believe me when i say that last night the toothfairy visited me.

  28. avatar Ihaknt says:
    December 21st, 2006 at 5:42 am

    Hassan, I hope your story is legit, otherwise it’s a slander against Ismail, regardless how negative he has been towards many of us. If it’s not legit then you are no better than him, because you mentioned that he is lack of credibility, but can we trust yours?

    Ismail if the story is true, I hope you will find a way to forgive your dad, as hating your own dad cant be good for your soul.

    For JKS, yes he has also been negative about many things, but I did see his comment in a different topic and he sounded like a totally different guy. So, in a way he is not all that bad (I hope). Although, if you read this JKS, please answer my questions on your fact no.5.

  29. avatar Dimp says:
    December 21st, 2006 at 5:56 am

    So Hassan, what’s your reason for hating non-Moslem?

  30. avatar JKS says:
    December 23rd, 2006 at 12:32 am

    Ihaknt, I respect freedom of thinking and speech, however my comments may consumed as blasphemy or spreading hatred as most of you feel. You are welcome exchange personal opinions, either it’s bad or good, to jkongsu@yahoo.co.uk, feel free to contact me.

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