Kawin Campur Bride Prices

Feb 21st, 2010, in IM Posts, by

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174 Comments on “Kawin Campur Bride Prices”

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  1. avatar deta says:
    February 24th, 2010 at 3:18 pm

    Maybe you’ve been spending too much time with accountants, but for Indonesian Woman, $50,000 is ever way too little: she is incomparable.

    Thank you, Bang Dikkiman,
    IMHO, Indonesian women are indeed incomparable, big and smart enough to calculate how much they worth, so they don’t need the lawmakers to set the price. I wonder, do they organize the year end sale as well? Probably the customers can have a discount for the old stocks. Oh my, forgive me for being sarcastic.

  2. avatar Oigal says:
    February 24th, 2010 at 3:41 pm

    It’s Bourke you galah……B-O-U-R-KE

    As in

    “The Back of Bourke is more than a geographic location, it’s part of the Australian language, part of the folklore. Bourke provoked author Henry Lawson to write after his visit in 1893, ‘If you know Bourke, you know Australia.”

    I guess Henry could have added if you can’t spell it, you know F’all

    Unless of course you are referring to Denis Burke the ex Chief Minister of the Northern Territory which seems weird even by your low standards.

    Let’s see, no idea of what Wave Hill was about, World War 2 and unable to spell a national icon of a town. For someone with a lot of opinion about a certain country and its people, you set amazing standard of personal ignorance.

  3. avatar BrotherMouzone says:
    February 24th, 2010 at 3:53 pm

    Of course, this could well lead to an interesting shift in mixed marriages here. As I recall, many western gents who marry a local lass become KTP Muslims just to smooth things over on the legal front. No big deal.

    But if this “conversion” comes with a 50K price tag, we might well see more Indonesian girls going the other way and becoming KTP Christians…

    Surely not what the minister for religion had in mind…

  4. avatar ET says:
    February 24th, 2010 at 4:09 pm

    Probably the customers can have a discount for the old stocks.

    Don’t bring them to ideas or the final law may indeed specify a price list according to age and looks. The very young ones might even show a higher price tag than the initial 500.000 IRP. And knowing Indonesians there could even be room for tawar-menawar.

  5. avatar Dikkiman Sujengkol says:
    February 24th, 2010 at 4:14 pm

    @ Oigal,

    Not content to attack an Icon of the Brown Man (me), you set upon Australasian wildlife: the noble bird the Galah.

    I ever don’t care how Burke is spelt (no more than I care about the cross-breeding and regressive DNA strands there). Can u spell Mohammad ? Or is it Muhammad ? Or Muhamad ? How do you spell the name of the President who ruled here from 1966 to 1998 ?

    All of this avoids the main issue: you equate an Indonesian woman’s worth with $50,000.

  6. avatar Oigal says:
    February 24th, 2010 at 4:21 pm

    All of this avoids the main issue: you equate an Indonesian woman’s worth with $50,000.

    Ah you have me confused with an Indonesian Politician, you of all people with your corrupt connections should know better. I (unlike yourself and corrupt comrades) am more concerned that 50,000 is a figure but dreamed of in loose cash for most normal people.

    Now slip away our poorly educated, spoilt one and sip another green tea with the many ringed hand that feeds you. I shall be sure to pass on your comments about DNA to our aborginal friends there, I am sure they will be impressed.

  7. avatar Oigal says:
    February 24th, 2010 at 4:24 pm

    we might well see more Indonesian girls going the other way and becoming KTP Christians…

    BM, Can you do that in Indonesia? In Malaysia creates all sorts of death and destruction, floods and famine apparently.

  8. avatar deta says:
    February 24th, 2010 at 4:29 pm

    And knowing Indonesians there could even be room for tawar-menawar.

    Let’s do business, babe!

  9. avatar venna says:
    February 24th, 2010 at 6:06 pm

    But doesn’t sharia also require the wife to produce four male witnesses before she can “prove” any of the things that justifies claiming the prize?
    _______________
    It is for adultery case. Punishment for adultery (according to the sharia laws) are either stoning to death or flogging. Stoning is for married people and flogging is for the unmarried one. It requires to produce 4 male witnesses (or replace it with 2 female witnesses for each man, which means 8 female witnesses total).

    I have to stop here. It is too scary for me and I don’t think I have enough knowledge about this. Maybe someone else here wanna to explain more?

  10. avatar venna says:
    February 24th, 2010 at 6:18 pm

    But if this “conversion” comes with a 50K price tag, we might well see more Indonesian girls going the other way and becoming KTP Christians…
    _________________
    Very possible, since there is no rajam or execution here for people who swift their religion, only social pressure and maybe some physical abuses from their own family.

  11. avatar diego says:
    February 25th, 2010 at 2:56 am

    I agree. This law should be targeted only at those sex-addict arabs. Just at the picture below, all of them are grabbing their packet, in the public, in the light of day, even in a diplomatic event! Such a culture, eh?

  12. avatar Odinius says:
    February 25th, 2010 at 8:02 am

    ET said:

    Then why the clause about murtad and syariah bank in the RUU – if it’s still there? If they stay together but both decide to leave Islam will the couple be able to recover the deposit from the syariah bank? Note that if they do everything by the rules their KTP will show their new religion which won’t go unnoticed by the bank officials.

    Everything about this RUU Perkawinan stinks.

    It does stink, but I think that it’s not going to pass, and is a sort of empty political posture.

    But to clarify, what I wrote should have read will not automatically annul marriages

    They would if one of the partners said they wanted a divorce because of the conversionMy point was that Indonesia will tolerate interfaith marriages as long as the partners want them; it just won’t perform them.

    I know several Indonesian couples (who are Indonesian) who have interfaith marriages. They were married abroad, and are residents in Indonesia. Not sure which family law they fall under in that case.

  13. avatar BrotherMouzone says:
    February 25th, 2010 at 11:50 am

    BM, Can you do that in Indonesia? In Malaysia creates all sorts of death and destruction, floods and famine apparently.

    Depends on the individual family involved.

    I have a Batak friend who converted to Islam for marriage (excommunication from the family, family sent heavies to smash up the wedding, eventually softened their stance when grandkids appeared – and when they needed money for Grandma’s operation)

    I also know a Muslim lass who converted to Christianity for marriage and had much the same experience – long term excommunication then reconnection once grandkids appear.

    I guess in general blood is thicker than (holy) water…

  14. avatar timdog says:
    February 25th, 2010 at 12:10 pm

    The guy NOT indulging in auto-eroticism in diego’s picture is Bashar al-Assad. He’s very tall and he’s an ophthalmologist.

    Before the mid-1970s interfaith marriages were technically allowed in Indonesia.
    I’m not sure of the background of the change in the law, but in practice, amongst a certain kind of Indonesian, inter-faith marriages seem to remain pretty common.

    I’ve been dying for an excuse to spill this nugget of information somewhere on here for a couple of weeks, and this seems like a prime opportunity:

    There’s this Javanese Catholic family that I know well. I knew there were a couple of mixed faith marriages within the extended family, but it was only in a conversation on the subject recently that I got the full picture. Absolutely fascinating.

    OK, so this is a family that would certainly be labeled by sociologists/anthropologists as “priyayi”, that is urban and of the “clerical” class. They are very “Javanese” in their outlook and identity.

    First Daughter (the “Bu De”, the dominating head of the clan according to standard Java practice) is married to a totally non-practicing Muslim, but she DID, at the time of the marriage convert to Islam. She is the ONLY one of the siblings to have followed her spouse’s faith, but despite this remains a practicing Catholic (as, in terms of church attendance, does her husband). Her three daughters were not baptised as children but all became Catholics as adults (though one later converted to Bethany for marriage).

    Second Daughter: married a Balinese Hindu. The Hindu did not convert for marriage, but did do so about ten years later after the birth of their children (all Catholic).

    Both these marriages predate the 1970s law change.

    Third Daughter: married a Javanese Catholic whose mother was Chinese (this marriage, despite all the religious irregularities in the others, was, according to family legend, the only one that caused issues – on “racial” grounds)

    Fourth Daughter: Married a Javanese Muslim, did not convert and neither did he. Kids Catholic.

    Fifth Daughter: miraculously, the only fully “normal” one, married a bone fide Javanese Catholic.

    First son: Married a Muslim woman. no conversions in either direction, two children are Catholics.

    Second son: married a Muslim woman. She apparently expressed interest in converting to Catholicism, but he, as by no means devout himself, in his own words, was “lazy” to take his responsibilities in guiding her into the new faith. She remains a non-practicing Muslim. Their daughter is Catholic. The ancient mother of this religiously irregular family lives – standard Javanese practice again – with this youngest son. Of her own huge brood of siblings, some of whom are still alive, some were Muslim, some were Catholic. No one seems to care.

    On another branch of the family, that that goes off from the Javanese-Chinese husband of Daughter Number Three, there is a similar litany of non-converted mixed marriages, and at the bottom of it, a Javanese-Chinese Catholic daughter who married a Javanese Muslim, and for legal purposes HE converted!

    All of which suggests to me that to a certain kind of Javanese (namely those who would be labeled “non-santri priyayi”), religion is of very little importance – or certainly less so than Javaneseness – when it comes to marriage.
    I have no doubt that these things WOULD be more of an issue in marriages from people, of, shall we say “lower” class, which could, if you wanted it to (and especially for ET who I know loves to suck long and hard on the idea of bules converting to Islam) segue nicely into the “bules+pembantus” thread.

    There ya go. Go play with that, I’ve got it off my chest….

  15. avatar Oigal says:
    February 25th, 2010 at 12:34 pm

    I was only asking :-). Interesting story tho Timdog.

  16. avatar venna says:
    February 25th, 2010 at 7:51 pm

    I guess in general blood is thicker than (holy) water…
    ___________________
    The same thing happened within my family, just like Timdog said. Personally I do not against people who doing interfaith marriage or swifting religion since it is their right & their choice, even probably I will got freaked out too if my kids choosing different path. But time will teach me how to handle it.

  17. avatar parvita says:
    February 26th, 2010 at 9:02 am

    I wonder if there is any refund if the marriage doesn’t work out or if the wife commit adultery.

  18. avatar Dikkiman Sujengkol says:
    February 26th, 2010 at 10:25 am

    Mbak Parvita Yth.,

    Maybe the free-lovin’ of the 1960s is the answer. I ever learn many techniques from Pendekar Achmad Sudarsono.

  19. avatar ET says:
    February 26th, 2010 at 1:04 pm

    I wonder if there is any refund if the marriage doesn’t work out or if the wife commit adultery.

    There won’t be any refund because she will be stoned to death, at least in Aceh.

  20. avatar venna says:
    February 26th, 2010 at 7:54 pm

    You cheat and she divorces you, you loose your money. She cheats and you divorce her, you still loose your money. Because the rule is: the wife can claim the money when something happened, e.g. divorce, no matter what causing it. But I wonder, whether in Aceh they will stone the man too if he commits adultery. The reason I’m not so interested in pure sharia laws is because in most cases it is gender biased and put pressure too much on women.

  21. avatar balin says:
    February 26th, 2010 at 8:39 pm

    she cheats and you divorce her, you still loose your money. Because the rule is: the wife can claim the money when something happened, e.g. divorce, no matter what causing it. <— this is discrimination to,, thanks God male got the polygamist act

  22. avatar lialita says:
    February 26th, 2010 at 9:20 pm

    i think this is really really ridiculous law how ever still be a drafted… , as one of indonesian woman, i dont agree with it. are we looks like comodity ?? naaah.. i think there is still have another option if the reason is only want to protect us. but 50,000 for guarantee ?? im sure all expat will be laughing on it, trust me,,

  23. avatar venna says:
    February 26th, 2010 at 9:41 pm

    If you are a foreigner, you have to be rich enough to be a polygamist, because you have to pay the same amount of money to each wife. But if you are an Indonesian man, just be happy and celebrate. The new RUU gives you more room to be a polygamist, even to be a “bastard” that neglect your wife & your kids. Because, even you have to ask permission to all your wives and they have to present written proof for the Court, you still have a chance to lobby the Court and got its permission to marry another woman. And if you don’t want to take responsibility at all, just swear in the name of God 4 times that you believe your wife cheating and her baby is not yours. You will be free from her forever even she shows DNA proof. Doesn’t matter. You already “Li’an” her. Happy? ;)

    But I’m pretty sure, the smart Indonesian women will not let themselves to be victim. And now they have more reason to marry foreigners or to convert and living abroad. At least in other countries they have more access for protection.

  24. avatar ET says:
    February 26th, 2010 at 9:53 pm

    im sure all expat will be laughing on it, trust me,,

    Or they will become environmental conservationists. If they catch a fish they will throw it back into the water.

  25. avatar venna says:
    February 26th, 2010 at 9:59 pm

    Or they will become environmental conservationists. If they catch a fish they will throw it back into the water.
    ________________
    Congrats for those who eat the fishermen first :D

  26. avatar balin says:
    February 26th, 2010 at 11:08 pm

    nahhh no need to argue you guys specially venna , foreigner worshiper ..

  27. avatar venna says:
    February 26th, 2010 at 11:29 pm

    No need to argue you too, Balin. I thought you are better than this, but apparently not. Seems I find the same type again and again here.

    Whatever dude, you can call me whatever you want. I already won the battle. And I already settled with my sweetheart :) Doesn’t matter anymore whatever you or others said about me, I’m already happy and content with my life. It’s too late, you know. You cannot destroy me by your judgmental mind. Even thousands Indonesian men point their fingers on me, I won’t budged. I’m a stone, just so you know.

    For all, sorry if my comment is not sugary enough for you, especially for some Indonesian men. But, really, what’s in your mind if you heard someone saying a sentence like this:
    “Why buy 2009 bajaj if you can buy 1999 BMW?” (comparison between young Indonesian man vs an old foreign man)

    Because, to tell you the truth (I don’t mean to offend some of you), for me it implies the deepest self-portrait. The comparison they made, for me, like showing their hidden emotion. Why using bajaj as a metaphor? Everybody know that bajaj cannot be compared with BMW, even it’s the 3010 series. And it’s not made in Indonesia too, it’s made in India.
    Why not claim yourself as a BMW too? I mean, heck, once we claimed made-in-Korea car as our Mobnas, why now you cannot claim Cadilllac as yours? Claim the quality, claim the power, and don’t present yourself as a bajaj when you’re in an international automobile shows. Even you are a handsome sixpack guy, once you introduce yourself as a “bajaj”, people don’t need to spend more time to know you better, because they already know what bajaj is. 1999 BMW can be a classic for some people. 1999 bajaj? Nah. 2009 bajaj? Nah, just a better series for public transportation. You know what I mean?

    Okay, I don’t know about you guys, but I think everybody know that women will choose their best mating partner. It’s the nature law. And the men will compete to be the best. Women like confident men. It’s sexy and appealing. Don’t blame the women if they choose the better men, because that’s their nature. If you want your women choose you, just be a better candidate. Stop whining, stop crying, get out and spread your wings, try to broaden your perspective instead of hiding behind your “machoism” by accusing, abusing, or being a polygamist; and stop treating your women as if they’re no-brainer. It may be work for some women, but not work well for others. I see a man that often show his power over women as an insecure baby. And it doesn’t work well for some of us. It turns us off.

  28. avatar balin says:
    February 27th, 2010 at 12:33 am

    are you sure venna..absolutely sure that every Indonesian girls who post their ads looking for hubby in expats webpages or local webpages not 100% a gold digger?? or just looking for a quick shortcut to gain wealth?? just because they got a very good sex appeal i mean physically ..ok its not you? but how about the other girls? are you very sure ???
    so what i’m pointing is to this kind of girls.. sorry than if i miss pointed at you.. are you sure that every girls like YOU. If you not sure let me pointed at THEM.

    give some tips why not try moving to post on local aboriginal’s Australian webpages, their foreign to right? 100% live in Australian continent, just kidding just answer my previous question

  29. avatar venna says:
    February 27th, 2010 at 12:57 am

    They still work based on the same principal: finding the best candidate. What’s the difference though? Everybody advertise their quality, everybody trying to show something about themselves in front of candidates pool, online or not. If I were you, I will not bother pointing my finger at THEM. They only advertise themselves trying to seek the best choice, not much different with those pretty ladies who did blind-date, romance, pacaran, perjodohan, or whatever method they use.

    And do you think some Indonesian women who married with Indonesian men are absolutely 100% non-gold diggers? No, right? Of course you will find them easily, that once they’re gold-digger, they will be a gold-digger even their husbands are Indonesian. And I don’t blame them. If they have quality and worth millions dollar, why they should choose a “Paria” as their husbands? Ada rupa ada harga. Everything has its own price. You want to marry a pretty lady, buy her with the price that she asked. She wants you to provide her a pretty house, buy her house. She wants you to be a gentle and loving husband, be like that. If you cannot provide that, then don’t blame her if she choose another candidate.

  30. avatar balin says:
    February 27th, 2010 at 1:08 am

    sounds like you making a tag prices on the girls? sorry if im wrong, ada rupa ada harga.. and ..
    quality and worth millions dollar, why they should choose a “Paria” as their husbands?<— please explain what quality is this? physic or brain etc.
    and what paria means.
    is it right paria mean poor people ? correct me if im wrong venna
    So the parias will know the rules..you know the paria dont have much money.
    Please explain im curious..
    (Saving this cigar till the fat lady sing)

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