Kawin Campur Bride Prices

Feb 21st, 2010, in IM Posts, by

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174 Comments on “Kawin Campur Bride Prices”

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  1. avatar DeA says:
    February 23rd, 2010 at 6:24 pm

    I am Indonesian, and my fiance is Spanish, and we were shocked when we knew about this. I really feel that the government should not deal with this marriage-thing so much. If they control our marriage, it is the same as they don’t give us the right to marry to someone we love. It is a human right.

    Besides, making this law is the same as a high-level of prostitution since the government themselves sell the Indonesian women to earn money. The law says that the money will be used in case there is a divorce. But how if there will never be any divorce? Besides, I believe that even Indonesian men themselves treat their wives badly. So why don’t the government take care about this more?

    I think this law is completely ridiculous.

  2. avatar venna says:
    February 23rd, 2010 at 7:55 pm

    @Oigal:
    Why would they get to keep the interest?
    __________________
    I spontaneously repeated my brother’s famous sentence. I used to use his account to keep my money, and everytime I use it he will say: I take the interests. Haha…

    The same analogy here. Seems to me that the account will be under government’s name, and the money is not classified as investment for the couples, only a guarantee. So my first assumption is that they only get their 500 million – or minus if they got charged with additional fees.

    @ET & patung: this RUU is completely based on islamic laws, from head to toe. Very discriminative.

  3. avatar FonnyDivaMermaid says:
    February 23rd, 2010 at 9:12 pm

    Sorry if I can ask, it is only for Muslim, or not Muslim also has to do this thing ? thx

  4. avatar David says:
    February 23rd, 2010 at 9:42 pm

    Hi Fonny, yes it does look like it’s only for Muslims.

  5. avatar ET says:
    February 23rd, 2010 at 10:27 pm

    yes it does look like it’s only for Muslims.

    If this law is for muslims only – which I doubt is conform to the constitution – does it mean that the male wedding candidate is forced by law to convert and the woman has no choice?

  6. avatar FonnyDivaMermaid says:
    February 23rd, 2010 at 11:10 pm

    Thx Patung,
    oh well I can say is, $50.000 is not little money, not all foreign men have it just for security guarantee. lol
    and yes it is giving an impression that our government is selling our Indonesian women.
    oh well, I think I better use the money for travelling all around the world. lol.

  7. avatar venna says:
    February 24th, 2010 at 12:17 am

    Correct me if I’m wrong…. but these are what I know so far:

    *a marriage between a moslem & non-moslem is considered as illegal in islamic term and no longer accepted in Indonesia (if I’m not mistaken)
    *but, a moslem man can marry a non-moslem woman and a moslem woman cannot marry a non-moslem man. This because in Islam, the man is seen as the leader (imam), and in a relationship, this is a fundamental aspect. Most moslem women want to have good imam and they select their best candidate based on this too (with good character, maturity, etc…and he should be a moslem – either born moslem or muallaf)
    *of course there is a possibility that the woman willingly embraces new religion with the consequence that she will be an outsider and considered as a murtad. Swifting religion has heavy consequences; socially or psychologically; both to the woman & her families. It’s not easy. But in some cases, after passing the conflict period, they begin to show understanding and respect to each other.
    *Some couples choose to keep their own religion and having interfaith marriage. It is not considered as legal in Indonesia, but in other countries interfaith marriage generally is accepted.

  8. avatar diego says:
    February 24th, 2010 at 12:38 am

    I didn’t know interfaith marriage is illegal in indonesia (not trolling here). Are you sure? I didn’t know my country is _that_ backward….

  9. avatar venna says:
    February 24th, 2010 at 12:41 am

    That’s what I know so far…. in the past we can register our marriage at catatan sipil, but right now seems that departemen agama chooses to be strict on this. You see the new RUU as the example.

  10. avatar bs says:
    February 24th, 2010 at 12:57 am

    According to the Dutch embassy and KUA in malang (but they are self-serving in this case), interfaith marriage is illegal in Indonesia. So much for tolerance. The unity is just a collection of diversities and they’re not allowed to exchange members.

    Funny thing is that Indonesia did sign some international treaties in which discrimination based on gender or religion is not allowed. It’s backward indeed.

  11. avatar diego says:
    February 24th, 2010 at 1:19 am

    Alright, that means I have to add another 10 years to my forecast about the time gay marriage will be approved in indonesia.

  12. avatar bs says:
    February 24th, 2010 at 4:08 am

    @diego

    add another 10 years if your gay lover is muslim ;-)

  13. avatar Odinius says:
    February 24th, 2010 at 4:08 am

    Indonesia, as far as I know, will not allow interfaith marriages. However, all that is needed is a certificate from the relevant official stating a conversion has taken place. It will also not annul marriages if there is a subsequent conversion of one or more partners.

    @diego…only 10?!

  14. avatar diego says:
    February 24th, 2010 at 5:48 am

    @Odinius:

    Don’t worry, my forecast is flaming accurate. Those additional 10 years that would make 97 years.

    By that time Indonesia will be the “human capital of the world” (as other countries would have turned gays, so they stop reproducing. The only way they can maintain their existence is by adopting children from indonesia, where there are still heterosexual couples, or quintets (one man + four women) concocting humelets — little humans…, okay, kids).

  15. avatar Chris says:
    February 24th, 2010 at 8:01 am

    I asked a friend who lives in Egypt said about the similar system there. It seems it is to merely protect local women’s rights when quickie marriages to much older foreign men occur.

    Here is what he said :

    50,000USD????? Is SBY on the take from the sharia banks????

    I didn’t realise it until I did some research just now, but there is a law that says when the age difference between a foreigner and a local is more than 25 years, the foreigner must put 50,000EGP (8,000USD) in the National Bank of Egypt in the wife’s name. It’s mainly to stop the Saudis from coming here for the summer, paying for a young “wife” and then ditching her, in some cases after she has become pregnant to him.

    Here’s a couple of articles that talk about it:
    http://www.thedailynewsegypt.com/article.aspx?ArticleID=6177
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7452456.stm

    I don’t know about popularity, because the only foreigner/Egyptian marriages I know are close in age. It certainly doesn’t apply to all foreign/Egyptian marriages.

  16. avatar Oigal says:
    February 24th, 2010 at 8:16 am

    the foreigner must put 50,000EGP (8,000USD) in the National Bank of Egypt in the wife’s name.

    Now that sounds fair enough to me and a stinks a whole lot less of yet another scam

  17. avatar Oigal says:
    February 24th, 2010 at 8:22 am

    Why would they get to keep the interest?
    __________________
    I spontaneously repeated my brother’s famous sentence. I used to use his account to keep my money, and everytime I use it he will say: I take the interests. Haha…

    Leaving the family agreements out of it. It is not the government’s money (should this joke of law come to pass) therefore keeping the interest could only be morally classified as theft. Even the tax office returns interest (at a scummy rate) when they lose tax cases.

  18. avatar ET says:
    February 24th, 2010 at 9:48 am

    Odinius said

    It will also not annul marriages if there is a subsequent conversion of one or more partners.

    Then why the clause about murtad and syariah bank in the RUU – if it’s still there? If they stay together but both decide to leave Islam will the couple be able to recover the deposit from the syariah bank? Note that if they do everything by the rules their KTP will show their new religion which won’t go unnoticed by the bank officials.

    Everything about this RUU Perkawinan stinks.

  19. avatar venna says:
    February 24th, 2010 at 10:37 am

    therefore keeping the interest could only be morally classified as theft.
    ____________________
    Totally agree.

    However, after reading the RUU again, the deposit is in the wife’s name.
    (3) Calon suami yang berkewarganegaraan asing telah membayar u-ang jaminan kepada calon isteri melalui bank syariah di Indo-nesia sebesar Rp. 500.000.000,- (lima ratus juta rupiah).

    If there’s something happened during their marriage (e.g. abuse, negligence, murtad, divorced), the wife can claim the money based on the Court’s decision. And if there’s nothing serious happened for 10 years, both wife and husband can claim it as their joint asset/money.

    But, it is still unclear though how the syariah bank will manage the money. Is it as a certificate deposit/CD with 5-10 year term, or just saving account that is protected with special regulation? And why 50 million? It’s just so insane.

  20. avatar Oigal says:
    February 24th, 2010 at 10:52 am

    Yea, I don’t care who you are, to tie up $50,000 for ten years is a big ask for anybody let alone newly weds.

  21. avatar deta says:
    February 24th, 2010 at 12:25 pm

    (3) Calon suami yang berkewarganegaraan asing telah membayar u-ang jaminan kepada calon isteri melalui bank syariah di Indo-nesia sebesar Rp. 500.000.000,- (lima ratus juta rupiah)

    Once this constitution is validated, I think this is what gonna happen:

    Heaps of gold diggers will rush into the bank appointed to open a saving account. Once they have the account, they start to look around to find foreigners that at least have 500 million rupiah, then seduce them in so far as they’re willing to be their husbands no matter how old, how ugly, or how bad tempered the men are (actually the older the better). Right after getting married, the women start nagging, yelling and threatening their husbands with divorce. And…voila! They discover the newest way to be millionaires and ready for the next prey.

  22. avatar BrotherMouzone says:
    February 24th, 2010 at 12:31 pm

    “when the age difference between a foreigner and a local is more than 25 years, the foreigner must put 50,000EGP (8,000USD)”

    That 50,000 figure looks remarkably familiar.

    It might be a coincidence, but what are the chances that the genius who cooked up this scheme read about the Egyptian law but didn’t notice that the amount was in was EGP rather than USD?

  23. avatar Laurence says:
    February 24th, 2010 at 1:01 pm

    I would never marry anyone if I had to pay to do so. Feels to much like prostitution to me.

  24. avatar ET says:
    February 24th, 2010 at 1:06 pm

    Once this constitution is validated, I think this is what gonna happen:

    Or this will happen:

    Lots of naive bules will continue to fall in love with charming and pretty Indonesian girls, unaware of the impending financial consequences if the relation develops into something serious. From one thing comes another and after a while datang bulan doesn’t shop up. Poor (or even not so poor) bule suddenly realizes that if he takes on his responsibilities he may go bankrupt or at least be mortgaged for a substantial part of his life and sees no other solution than to flee the scene of the crime or – depending on his moral outlook – offers to pay for an abortion.
    What happens to the girl afterwards is another story…

  25. avatar tattertots says:
    February 24th, 2010 at 1:15 pm

    It might be a coincidence, but what are the chances that the genius who cooked up this scheme read about the Egyptian law but didn’t notice that the amount was in was EGP rather than USD?

    BrotherMouzone, I totally agree with you! These geniuses didn’t do their homework, alright!

  26. avatar deta says:
    February 24th, 2010 at 1:28 pm

    Once this constitution is validated, I think this is what gonna happen:

    Or this will happen:

    Either way,

    Its all about the money
    Its all about the dum dum duh dee dum dum
    I don’t think it’s funny

  27. avatar tattertots says:
    February 24th, 2010 at 1:35 pm

    Or the super wealthy (raja minyak alike whose seems to afford shelling 50grand) guys will start treating their ‘expensive’ wives like a brought slave! No money can protect these abused women from their husband’s wrath should he chose to harm her so what the heck is that ‘deposit’ gonna do other than fatten up these idiots who made the law.

  28. avatar Oigal says:
    February 24th, 2010 at 2:13 pm

    but what are the chances that the genius who cooked up this scheme read about the Egyptian law but didn’t notice that the amount was in was EGP rather than USD?

    Laugh.. of course, I think you have plumbed the depths of policy making in Indonesia. Shame really, we know there are smart, ethical people out there but none seem to make it as lawmakers. I wonder why?

  29. avatar Dikkiman Sujengkol says:
    February 24th, 2010 at 2:33 pm

    Oigal,

    It seems that $50,000 is too much for a human life. In my book, you can’t put a value on human life. Maybe you’ve been spending too much time with accountants, but for Indonesian Woman, $50,000 is ever way too little: she is incomparable. Would you like to go back to the Back of Burke and see what they have there ?

  30. avatar bs says:
    February 24th, 2010 at 2:57 pm

    But doesn’t sharia also require the wife to produce four male witnesses before she can “prove” any of the things that justifies claiming the prize?

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