31 Comments on “KTP Religion”
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Retarders Says:
November 18th, 2006 at 4:56 amIndonesia needs to put “religion” in KTP because when you die, God will look at your KTP and decide, whether to put you in censored (jilbab) heaven or non-censored one.
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Fanglong Says:
November 18th, 2006 at 5:33 pmI think it can help or do the contrary.
You know the case of blood transfusion : some have a religion which prohibits it (Mormons, etc.) : so, you have a bad accident, they look your KTP & see you’re a Mormon ! Shit : these guys don’t accept trasfusion : we’ve got to call the family, ask for permission, etc. This is one possibility, but, as you can see, it complicates the matter… I think opinions and the like are a real pain where you know. Everyone should calm down and accept the idea that, having fallen on Earth, we’re all brother & sisters, beyond the label (trademark?) of our respective religions…
And this one, of course :Article 28 of the Constitution clearly states that the government must recognize all religions and faiths.
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Parvita Says:
November 28th, 2006 at 8:32 pmI don’t think my KTP has a religion part anymore, which is quite new. I found that out when I renewed my KTP.
I think it is just for statistics, it has no intention for discrimination. Maybe I’m naive, but is there any case of discrimination because you are one of the minority religion follower?
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pj_bali Says:
March 12th, 2007 at 7:08 pmYou could apply to build a church in Java – see how far you get. Preventing people from having a place of worship is pretty discriminatory. Could say say the same for mosques in East Indo but I haven’t come accross any cases (apart from Ahmadiyah) of mobs closing mosques. Maybe someone could share some examples of that?
If they needed statistics they could do a census.
Whether or not it has no intention of discrimination thats what it will be used for. As the minister said it could be used to check up on people to see if they are following the tenets of their religions. I wonder if a special police will be recruited for this extremely important task. There could also be an opportunity for a religious re-education camp somewhere so that these religious miscreants could have an opportunity to find the correct path – somewhere far from civilisation so as to be free of distractions such as telephones or tv. After a few decades of rehabilition they would be ready to resume their roles in society, this time in a proper manner according to their agama.
Why not just leave the religion off the KTP. Who needs to know?
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Robert Says:
March 12th, 2007 at 10:49 pm11th March 2007.
Thoha Abdurrahman, the head of the Yogyakarta branch of the Majelis Ulama Indonesia (MUI), urges against omitting the religion category. People could easily change their religion, back and forth, and this could create conflict in some areas, he said.
Oh yeah, sure. Once the religion category has been omitted from the KTP, people will start changing their religion back and forth immediately. For example does he think that Muslims will become Protestants, Protestants will become Buddhists, Buddhists will become Catholics and Catholics become Muslims?
Where did he get this insane idea from? That would mean people would only stick to their religion because it is mentioned on their KTP. Seems very unlikely.Omitting religion would prevent religious conflicts from occurring. Emphasizing religious difference only raises barriers between people. Why should a person know what the religion of another person is in the first way?
Group classifications can be very dangerous as history shows us: South-Africa, Nazi-Germany, Rwanda.Sectarian violence as did occur was provoked by foreigners who sought to destroy Indonesia and so omitting the religion category on I.D. cards would have no effect.
Which foreigners? And why haven’t these foreigners been arrested by the Indonesian Police? Which persons is Abdurrahman referring to? Again is an internal problem blamed to foreigners.
If people followed their religion properly there would be no conflict, he added, minorities were protected under Islamic law
Apparently people don’t follow their religion properly. What Islamic law does he refer to? Minorities shouldn’t be subjected to Islamic law at all. There is no need for that.
Abdurrahman’s ideas are far away from reality and are purely based on wishful thinking. -
Andrew Says:
March 12th, 2007 at 11:39 pmWhat a shallow and meaningless conclusion from the head of a major organization.
If he doesn’t have a rational and logical opinion, he should just shut up – that would’ve saved his face. -
Dimp Says:
March 13th, 2007 at 5:25 amHi Andrew,
If he doesn’t have a rational and logical opinion.
I thought this is one of the major requirement to become Indonesian officials. You can clearly see that anyone who have or develop rational and logical opinions will never last long in the office.
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Ihaknt Says:
March 13th, 2007 at 6:25 amGreat! Hey Cuk why don’t you apply? Or you probably already are.
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Tomaculum Says:
March 15th, 2007 at 8:31 pmminorities were protected under Islamic law
Wow, how kind and merciful!
As a minority I would prefer to be protected under a functioning earthen governmental law. But maybe I’m just a minority under the minorities? -
March 27th, 2007 at 4:48 pmThe video shows there are many solid reasons advocating omission of religion on the KTP. Unfortunately, it seems that there hasn’t flown too much blood to convince the Indonesian Government. Even foreign examples are not enough, like the Lebanese lady tells.
We all know what happened in Europe in the 30’s 40’s of the last century, where the Jews got the character J stamped on their KTP’s, it was the perfect tool in the extermination of the Jews, result 6.000.000 people killed. We saw what happended in Rwanda where the KTP’s stated whether you were a Tutsi or Hutu, also here the result was literally devastating, 800.000 people killed.
It is very simple, the more personal characteristics are being stated on the KTP, the easier it gets to discriminate and the bigger the chance of abuse. I don’t know about the real reason of mentioning religion on the KTP. The arguments that it is for harmony, or to prevent people from deviating from “the path”, are just plain bullsh*t, because Indonesia shows the opposite. Maybe it is for future purposes that once Indonesia has become an Islamic state, the Government can deal swift and quickly with other religions.
I don’t know what is necessary to change the minds of the Indonesian Parliamentarians, history and bloodshed don’t seem to work.
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Mohammed Khafi Says:
March 28th, 2007 at 2:04 pmRobert said:
I don’t know what is necessary to change the minds of the Indonesian Parliamentarians, history and bloodshed don’t seem to work.
Promises of easy money seem to work!
Peace
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Sassy Says:
April 10th, 2007 at 9:07 amReligion is between Human and God, not Government. It should be only God knows my religion. The people just know my attitude, how can I related with them, how can I spread peace around the world. That’s the religion that should people see, not just written in KTP.
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Khaled Elkasi Says:
May 15th, 2008 at 8:24 pmReligion in KTP is necessary for those who works in the Ministery of Relegion (Departmen Kementrian Agama). It gives them works.
Departemen Agama Kementrian Agama is the souce of all corruptions !
The people who work the this depertment are all immoral. -
Rob Says:
May 16th, 2008 at 3:31 amPerhaps a more general question needs to be asked and that is:
Can the State regulate a citizen’s beliefs?
For many perhaps stating a religion is a mere formality to the KTP process and it is not worth the hassle of trying to convince some pencil pusher that you do not believe in one of the approved religions…
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Free Spirit Says:
December 24th, 2008 at 8:28 amWe don’t need a religion statement on KTP because it can cause a DISCRIMINATION!
And for Retarders you wrote:
“Indonesia needs to put “religion” in KTP because when you die, God will look at your KTP and decide, whether to put you in censored (jilbab) heaven or non-censored one”.
You makes me laugh. Get real man! Is God really gonna check our KTP? You just joking right?
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ananda Says:
April 1st, 2009 at 3:27 pmAgain and again it has been proven that the source of problems in Indonesia is Islam. It is Islam that is always crazy about religion, about belief, and the like. The rest have no problem about such a matter.
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Cukurungan Says:
April 1st, 2009 at 4:05 pmAgain and again it has been proven that the source of problems in Indonesia is Islam.
Islam have been here more than 700 years, it is very easy my dear if you have problem with Islam go to another country which dare to ban Islam as religion.
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Mr Tic Tac Toe Says:
April 1st, 2009 at 4:14 pmTn. Cukurungan, Yth:
How could you say something like that?
What about those whose ancestors have lived here for more than a thousand years, but disagree with islam? What would you do about them?
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April 1st, 2009 at 9:20 pmWhat about those whose ancestors have lived here for more than a thousand years, but disagree with islam? What would you do about them?
Pak TTT Yth,
We could disagree in many thing but we can still live side by side peacefully if all parties on the disagreement want so but if you consider me as source of your problem. Should I give smile to you while you are ready to wipe out your problem?
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April 1st, 2009 at 10:03 pmTn. Cukurungan, Yth:
Should I give smile to you while you are ready to wipe out your problem?
Who says anything about wiping out my problem?
Ok. Let me put it in a more detailed scenario.
My people lived here since a thousand years ago or more.
Your faith arrived in nusantara 700 years ago.We disagree with your faith. We think it is problematic.
We do not think we will ever want to wipe out our own brothers (you are).
But we will never stop trying to convince you by arguments and proselytizing, however useless that might be.Whats your response toward that attitude?
A. My people should go to other country
B. My people lied about not wanting to wipe out, and should get pre-emptive strike
C. Some other response (please explain?) -
April 1st, 2009 at 11:01 pmWe disagree with your faith. We think it is problematic.
We do not think we will ever want to wipe out our own brothers (you are).
But we will never stop trying to convince you by arguments and proselytizing, however useless that might be.Whats your response toward that attitude?
A. My people should go to other country
B. My people lied about not wanting to wipe out, and should get pre-emptive strike
C. Some other response (please explain?)It is very easy my brother, there is rule of game set forth by Government, as long as you play according to the applicable regulation and law who care. But trust me you are doing the useless Job. Islam is the most demanding religion on earth ( too many tidak boleh dan too sedikit yg boleh), aside of the Islam by default like most Javanese and Sundanese, it is only magical thing who could make people to embrace in Islam, but once someone embrace to Islam especially the hard core one even you jig saw his head alive, he will never leave the Islam. If you do not believe check the history of mankind, the only succeed story to de-Islamize territory previously under control of Muslim was in the Spanish by wiped -out all Muslim at once strike. Therefore, if someone says, Islam is problem what we do just keep sharpening our jig saw just in case if someone try to repeat success story of Spanish tactic.
Please be noticed that I am not talking on behalf on Muslim Indonesia, it is only my personal opinion while I am only a dirty muslim.
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April 1st, 2009 at 11:23 pmTn. Cukurungan, Yth:
If you do not believe check the history of mankind, the only succeed story to de-Islamize territory previously under control of Muslim was in the Spanish by wiped -out all Muslim at once strike.
No brother, try India. it was almost all muslims back in the era of tippu sultan of mysore. but no longer now. Its simply slowly out of fashion.
Back to my problem.
Forget the government. Their sets of laws was dutch era laws, using religion to segregate people. outdated, unfair, and should be changed.
What does your heart tell you?
Can I or cant I argue against your faith, peacefully?
Can we (my people and the people of your faith) or Cant we just use words to persuade each others to convert, however strong and loud that is? without resorting to death theology?
And not only in internet forum, but openly.What does your heart tell you?
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Aluang Anak Bayang Says:
April 1st, 2009 at 11:32 pmPak TTT,
Re,
My people lived here since a thousand years ago or more.
Your faith arrived in nusantara 700 years ago.Sheikh Cuk’s people had been in the nusantara some 700 years ago.
Pak TTT’s people had been here 1,000 years or so years ago.
My Javanese ancestors, had been here some 1,000,000 years ago.
I think I have more authority to tell who to go.
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April 2nd, 2009 at 7:31 amNo brother, try India. it was almost all muslims back in the era of tippu sultan of mysore. but no longer now. Its simply slowly out of fashion.
India is still home of one of most largest muslim on the planet while Bangladesh and Pakistan is still there.
Can I or cant I argue against your faith, peacefully?
Can we (my people and the people of your faith) or Cant we just use words to persuade each others to convert, however strong and loud that is? without resorting to death theology?
And not only in internet forum, but openly.What does your heart tell you?
I do not see any problem but I remind you that before you go to preach to other faith please watch your backyard carefully otherwise something below could happen again:
I am from Batak Ethnic, most of us are christian almost 90% even my father was a christian, I am muslim since the day I was born coz my late father convert his religion when he was at the university, even at the beginning my father was very surprised when he was in the christian school all they have taught him as a preacher is to destroy islam in faith not by war or battle but in mind war, when he converted to islam he found out none of his ustadz told him to do the same
for more detail see
http://www.indonesiamatters.com/1628/fitna-geert-wilders/cp-8/#comments -
April 2nd, 2009 at 9:42 amTn. Cukurungan, Yth:
I do not see any problem but I remind you that before you go to preach to other faith please watch your backyard carefully otherwise something below could happen again:
Ok. If you think it is not a problem, then we’re good. Can you please stand up in indonesian political arena to say that?
I dont care if your story happens again, you can convert us as much as you want, as long as we can do the same. Im more worried about the lack of options to de-convert, and lack of options to disagree or criticize.
To quote a close friend of mine: “You can worship a stone if you want, as long as you dont throw it at me”
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April 2nd, 2009 at 9:53 amTn. Aluang, Yth:
My Javanese ancestors, had been here some 1,000,000 years ago.
I think I have more authority to tell who to go.
LOLLL…..
I dont think so
National Geographic can confirm this, if you are willing to send them your dna samples. I’ll try to find the url later.
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April 2nd, 2009 at 2:48 pmOk. If you think it is not a problem, then we’re good. Can you please stand up in indonesian political arena to say that?
Brother, if I said no problem, it does not mean I have to devote my self to strive on this issue but it explain my position that I do not care with faith or believe of other people because as we Muslim have no luxury time to fix other people faith but we are too busy to save our self and our family from threat of the agony hellfire.
Im more worried about the lack of options to de-convert, and lack of options to disagree or criticize.
We are more worried about fate of my self and my family because we are not lucky as you who already have a room in heaven booked by YOUR FATHER
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diego Says:
April 3rd, 2009 at 3:21 amThis discussion is getting weirder.
Sobat Cuk, do you really believe what you said??? I mean, the going to hell thing, etc.
My gosh, if the majority of the people are more worried about “avoidin hell” (which probably doesn’t exist anyway, or maybe we’re living in the real hell already), then when will we — together as a nation — be able to really dedicate our energy for something useful in our current life???
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April 3rd, 2009 at 2:34 pmTn. Diego, Yth:
Let him be. I just made him throw a statement that he doesnt have any objection on the matter of conversion of people of his faith, which i presume against his faith’s dogma.
Of course he would think about hell and stuffs.
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April 3rd, 2009 at 4:21 pmThis discussion is getting weirder.
Because the belief or the faith is not a good subject for the discussion because there is no logical common ground to discuss the faith.
If you do not believe ask to Pak TTT who is His God and where his God is living now.
Sobat Cuk, do you really believe what you said??? I mean, the going to hell thing, etc.
My gosh, if the majority of the people are more worried about “avoidin hell” (which probably doesn’t exist anyway, or maybe we’re living in the real hell already), then when will we — together as a nation — be able to really dedicate our energy for something useful in our current life???
We will go together as nation to do useful thing if all of us believe that to fix other people belief is not the useful thing.
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