Dual Nationality

Nov 22nd, 2006, in IM Posts, by

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131 Comments on “Dual Nationality”

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  1. avatar Dian says:
    January 19th, 2008 at 2:36 pm

    I’ve a question: I am Indonesian, my sons are us citizen but my husband is indian. The older one was born in 2005 the younger was born in 2007. How can I get Indonesia passport for them and how long the process will be, how much it will cost me? Please let me know if anybody knows about that.

  2. avatar Wijaya says:
    January 26th, 2008 at 2:59 pm

    Hi Dian,

    Your oldest son need to get a mininstry approval before he is entitle to an Indonesian passport. You as the mother can be his sponsor. The time frame for obtaining the approval is approximately 3 up to 4 months. With the ministry’s decree you can then apply for the Indonesian passport. On another hand, your younger son is automatically entitle to dual Indonesian citizenship. Good luck, hope that can be useful.

    As for peter, yes, that’s the case.

  3. avatar Jade says:
    February 27th, 2008 at 9:46 pm

    Can a child born out of wedlock get dual nationality ? from Indonesian mom and Australian father. The parents had separated and the child is with the mother. If yes, where to start ?

  4. avatar Wijaya says:
    February 28th, 2008 at 12:03 pm

    Jade,

    Under the new citizenship law, the child born out of wedlock can get Indonesian nationality providing she/he was born before August 2006, under 18 years of age and unmarried, and legally admitted by her foreign biological father. The legal admision is in the form of court decree from local district court in Indonesia.

    In accordance to the Regulation of Ministry of Law and Human Rights, the child’s mom can be the applicant for citizenship. Application must be made in Bahasa and addresed to the Ministry of Law and Human Rights supported with the following documentation: a. copy of the child’s birth certificate, b. copy of mom’s KTP and family card (kartu keluarga) and the child must be included, c. photograph sized 4 x 6 cm with red background, d. copy of court decree from local district court, e. copy of child’s current passport.

    Upon receipt of completed supporting documents, the Ministry of Law and Human Rights will issue a Decree of Ministry of Law and Human Rights regarding the child’s Indonesian citizenship. The child’s photo will be attached to the decree. The Ministerial decree is the main requirement for applying an Indonesian passport at the local immigration office in Indonesia.

    Hope that useful and good luck, mate!

  5. avatar Jade says:
    March 5th, 2008 at 10:33 am

    Mr. Wijaya, thanks a bunch for your help. I shall go into the battle as soon as possible. Big help, thanks again !!

  6. avatar Andre says:
    June 17th, 2008 at 10:41 am

    Did anyone got the answers for JIM? Im really curious..

  7. avatar Hasan Zuberi says:
    June 17th, 2008 at 2:39 pm

    Finally i am in Jakarta, to drop my family (my wife & son).

    The Indonesian consulate issued the nationality documents for my son (offoucrse in Bahasa) … with no English translation … I insisted on putting an endoresement on the kid’s (Pakistani) passport … they did that but yet again in Bahasa Indonesia.

    We were stopped at the airline counter who took us to the immigration department where I had to show them all the documents … from my Nikah buku, his nationality papers to the passport endoresement … all in Bahasa.

    The immigration kept on asking me for English translation of “atleast” ONE document proving that he doesn’t require any visa.

    Finally after a good half hour discussion and on provision of photocopies of all related documents … they allowed us to proceed.

    Here at the Indonesian Immigration … they only saw the endoresement and gave the entry … no questions asked.

    So … i suggest all to keep one English translation (stamped and endorsed by the Indonesian Consulate & Embassy) for the foreign immigration staffers.

  8. avatar Um Saalik says:
    July 15th, 2008 at 3:58 pm

    Hello everyone, My son has dual citizenship and lives in Indonesia, (I am British, his father Indonesian) and has both Passports. What I wondered is, if we travel do we carry both passports and present both or do we have to still buy a visa to enter the UK, how does it work? Sorry I have no idea and there is no info on the British Embassy website. Thanks in advance for your help.

  9. avatar Hasan Zuberi says:
    July 16th, 2008 at 12:37 am

    Umm Salik,

    As per my experience, you will just need to carry both passport and for travel (Exit & Entry stamps) you can have it on the British passport … the Indonesian passport will only be requierd for verification of your child’s nationality.

    What I did was, got an endoresement from the Indonesian Consulate in my home-country on my son’s Pakistani passport … it was a simple piece of paper they attached at the end of his passport which had the embossed as well as rubber stamp of the consulate verifying his dual citizenship under the said regulation of 2007.

    The immigration staffer saw it and said it was enuogh for them to check.

    So my suggestion … do use his British passport for exit & entry in and out of Indonesia … and if possible get an endoresement on his British passport … otehrwise his Indonesian passport will be enough to get him entry without any hassle.

    Was salamo alaikum,

  10. avatar Odinius says:
    July 16th, 2008 at 1:04 am

    Adults should be able to have it too. Countries where they allow for adult dual nationality gain a lot in terms of investment from overseas residents who otherwise would just naturalize and never buy property, stocks, etc. in their native country. Plus you also get kids of naturalized parents who decide as teenagers or adults that they want to “reconnect” with their culture and end up getting really involved in their “motherland” in a way they wouldn’t otherwise.

  11. avatar Jingga says:
    July 16th, 2008 at 1:21 am

    I agree 100% with Odinius. They should make it easy for Indonesians to return to the homeland, not just because they are entitled to, but also to encourage them to contribute positively (and most WNI and ex-WNI overseas would do more than willingly). I do understand that it could be a political heartburn to get that every accomplished, however.

    So, I’d hope that the lawmakers would at least consider India’s approach and adopt something similar to “OCI: Overseas Citizens of India” — they don’t even have to change the acronym ;). It would practically allow “persons of Indonesian origins” to visit Indonesia, work, study and own properties without the troubles that they would otherwise have to go through. They can’t participate in the political process or be government employees, but they can get involved socially, culturally and, most advantageously to Indonesia, economically.

  12. avatar Jingga says:
    July 16th, 2008 at 1:22 am

    (more about India’s OCI program: http://newdelhi.usembassy.gov/acsdualnation.html)

  13. avatar Saras Polce says:
    August 21st, 2008 at 11:12 pm

    We are Indo/US marriage. My child was born in May 2008 in Singapore. KBRI made Surat Tanda Kelahiran (Certificate of Birth) for our child, and I was told to make the child-Indonesian Passport in the immigration office on my KTP (ID) address. Then when we were in the immigration office (Semarang), we were told to make the SK Kewarganegaraan Indonesia (Indonesian citizenship paper) in Jakarta. But then, also we were told that it is only for child who was born before August 2006 who needs the SK Kewarganegaraan Indonesia.

    The question is, do we still need to proceed the SK Kewarganegaraan Indonesia, as the child born after August 2006?

  14. avatar Wijaya says:
    August 22nd, 2008 at 10:44 am

    Saras,

    The Indonesian Citizenship Certificate only for child born in mixed-marriage before August 2006. But you must also pay attention to the place where your child was born: Singapore. In accordance with the Decree of Ministry of Law and Human Right No. M.01-HL.03.01 Year 2006, the citizenship certificate also required for children born outside of Indonesia in order to obtain Indonesian passport.

    The reason behind the issue is that there is a possibility that your child entitles to Singaporean nationality. Certain countries apply Ius Soli system that grant nationality to babies born in their territory.

    Therefore, the above situation is creating you an issue to your child’s dual nationality status.

  15. avatar indahs says:
    August 22nd, 2008 at 12:56 pm

    @ Wijaya,

    I take a look at your website and I am glad there is such services available in Indonesia to encounter clouds & muds of immigration procedures.

    BTW, I notice from your website that Indonesian id card (KTP) plays important role in all immigration procedures in Indonesia. Is it really true that although Indonesians who have been living aboard for more than 5 years or even a Permanent Resident of other country still have to extend their KTP of their residence in Indonesia? It does not sound proper, since Indonesians aboard do not live in Indonesia by then. Meanwhile to extend passport in Indonesian embassy does not request us to submit KTP. So, my question is, do Indonesians living aboard and PR of certain countries have to extend their KTP in order to get “things related to immigration matters” in Indonesia done?

    @ Patung,

    My apology if it is bit out of topic – I need to ask this question to an expert like Wijaya and it seems this forum is the only option at this moment. Thanks a lot!

  16. avatar Purba Negoro says:
    August 24th, 2008 at 11:12 pm

    !!!! VERY IMPORTANT_ PLEASE READ!!!!
    As a resident in Indonesia- you have many very strict legal obligation to fulfill.

    Indonesian Law clearly states:
    Marriages to/of foreigners MUST BE registered within 12 months of arrival into Indonesia

    Penalty: complications in renewal of passports, including VOIDING OF INDONESIAN PASSPORT and blacklisting.

    This is your non-negotiable legal obligation. Your visa is dependent on this- read fine print.

    DO NOT listen to lawyers who claim you can simply pay bribes and process is quick and easy.

    CORRECT legal process is lengthy and you need much original and officially approved translated copies of said documentation.

    ALL Indonesian residents require a Surat Keluarga Baik (not merely Chinese- this is a lie and a myth)- this is the all-important Criminal Background Clearance Letter.

    All Indonesian long term resident NEED VISA. VISA OVERSTAY is very serious- we do not treat our border as global commodity like idiot Westerner. It is inarguable.

    ALL MARRIAGES INCLUDING Muslim- require CIVIL registration. It is not fully correct that Muslim do not need. They do too.
    The bureaucracy is highly inflexible and require substantiating documentation from government sources

    I get to put on my Bureaucrat Hat again.
    I am an expert so please pay attention.

    Lengthy detaiols are found here:
    http://www.expat.or.id/info/mixmarriages.html

    IF YOU DO NOT follow full correct legal procedure- your assets can be legally expropriated and seized by the State.

    YOU CAN BE (and there is much precedent)
    expelled permanently
    have Indonesian passports voided
    future visa application automatically voided
    blacklisted as criminal
    can be charged with Immigration Violations and jailed or expelled.

    Immigration Law is VIGOROUSLY APPLIED regardless of money or connection. If you are from nation listed as known Criminality Region- the State will make life as tough as possible.
    I am referring to Africans, Eastern Europeans, Mainland Chinese and Taiwanese, Southern Americans, Central Europeans, Russia and Caucasian nations- all have been blacklisted with ample justification.

    This is VERY SERIOUS- DO NOT listen to hearsay or poorly informed idiot or lawyer- documentation in Indonesia is of highest importance.

    For MARRIAGE you must FIRST REGISTER with Indoensian Authority THEN YOUR EMBASSY.

    Indonesian Government does not care about foreign marriage laws or norms: to Indonesian Government they are Western marriage laws are trite and nonsensical.

    Marriage in Indonesia is very serious- they want proof. Documents- lots of them.

    I detail correct procedure for register marriage:
    The Law clearly States- Marriage is invalid if man was younger than 18 or wife younger than 16 at time of mariage

    If aged 21 or youngter at time of marriage- letter of Parental Consent required by Law. If one parent dead- one parent consent allowed. If both deceased- letter of consent from Legal Guardian

    For Muslim woman- 100 days + must pass before 2nd marriage

    10 working days notice are required to Registrar of Marriages PRIOR to marriage. Afterwards- registration is at their leisure- you have broken the law by not previously informing them so prepare to wait.

    Compulsory Documentation- ORIGINAL ONLY must also be notarised and translations notarised as well. Bureaucracy does not care how hard it is for you to obtain- iof you do not have originals- you get them- simple.

    Original documentation is a legal obligation as resident of Indonesia to provide these on demand.

    *Original birth certificates or extract of birth
    Original valid passports
    Full details of names, religion/faith (such as baptismal certificates), occupation and domicile of both parties
    Divorce Decree (if applicable).
    Passport sized pictures of you and your fiance with red or blue background.
    Tax receipt or proof of tax settled (for foreigner who works in Indonesia).
    KITAS (Temporary Residence Permit Card) or your visa, if applicable.
    Citizenship letter
    Endorsement Letter by Police (for those who live and reside in Indonesia).
    Valid and original KTP
    Written parental consent, if required (see above);
    Death certificate of former spouse, where relevant;
    Decree absolute divorce certificate, where relevant. The Prior Marriage Cert
    Proof of divorce.

    Expat also requires:
    Surat Kesehatan (letter of good health) issued by the foreign embassy/consulate stating that the expat spouse is in good health and able to marry.

    IF ALREADY married- photograph size 6 cm x 4 cm MUST be taken with Red or Blue background MALE ON RIGHT (non negotiable).

    This is Indonesia- NOT a liberal Democracy- as per article 1 of 1945 Constitution “Demokrasi tetapi bukan Liberalisme”. The State is supreme- not the Individual.
    This is village customary law to the level of State.
    Indignant, petty liberal objections and protestation will get you nowhere- we do not care.
    Indonesia is very simple- YOU obey the rules or leave.
    The State has a law unto its own and YOU are not the State so will never have this Privilege.

    KEN your advice was WRONG.
    Choose another Advokat- here I give link:

    Andika- register marriage As Soon As Possible. Now!

    http://search.atomz.com/search/?sp-q=dual+citizenship&sp-a=sp100221c4&sp-f=ISO-8859-1

    Summarily ALL MARRIAGES MUST BE REGISTERED CIVILLY MARRIAGE= LEGAL REQUIREMENT of residency- read the fine print people.

    KTP NOT REFLECTING MARITAL STATUS ARE VOID AND WRONG

    CHILDREN BORN IN INDONESIA BY PARENT NOT REGISTERED AS MARRIED BY CILI AUTHORITY ARE LABELLED A “BASTARD” BY THE STATE- it is irreversible.

    Jakarta:
    Kantor Catatan Sipil
    Jalan S Parman No.7
    Jakarta Barat

    Tel. 566 6242
    Office hours : 0700-1600

    Note- Office Operates in two sessions- like Indonesian Embassy.

    Links:
    http://ukinindonesia.fco.gov.uk/en/help-for-british-nationals/living-in-indonesia/how-register-marriage-or

    http://www.expat.or.id/info/mixmarriages.html

    Former Indonesian Citizenship Laws pertaining to No. 62/1958:
    Indonesian citizenship is given to:

    child born of the marriage of an Indonesian couple;
    child born of the marriage of an Indonesian man and foreign woman — the status of which does not cause dual citizenship;
    child born of the marriage of a foreign man and Indonesian woman, both of whom request Indonesian citizenship for their child — the status of which does not cause dual citizenship;
    child born to an unmarried Indonesian woman, the status of which does not cause dual citizenship;
    child born in Indonesian territory that is not provided with citizenship by his or her parents;
    child born in Indonesian territory whose parents are unknown;
    7. A child born in Indonesian territory whose parents have no citizenship.

  17. avatar Rani says:
    September 12th, 2008 at 3:49 pm

    Need some info about a child’s dual passport.
    I am Indonesian US permanent resident. My husband is US Citizen. Our Son is now 9 months old. He was born in America. The new UU Kewarganegaraan allows him to get his Indonesian Citizenship and passport.
    My question: How do we do when he travels to Indonesia. Itinerary will be: US – Hongkong – Singapore – Indonesia , and vice versa. (Note: HK and Spore are only for layovers)
    Departing from US : shows US passport. (possibly wont get his passport stamped for departing US, just need to show it to the immig.officer)
    Entering and leaving (layover) in HK and Spore : shows US passport (??)
    Entering Indonesia: shows Indo passport, so he doesn’t need a visa.

    Say, we are staying in Indonesia for 3 months.

    After 3 months:
    Leaving Indonesia: shows Indo passport
    Layover in Spore n HK : shows US passport (???)
    Entering US : shows US passport

    Question/concern: as his passport is new, and this will be his first time traveling, if the above scenario applies, then my son will have his US passport stamped only from Spore and HK immigration ?? will this raise question from US officer?

    Anyone who had similar experience ? what would be the best way to do in my case? Thanks !!

  18. avatar Jingga says:
    September 12th, 2008 at 7:49 pm

    Rani, I have done this several times.

    En-route to Indonesia: you may need to show both passports as the agents will be looking for permit to enter Indonesia (and if you only shows the US passport, there won’t be any visa stamped on it).

    En-route to US: leaving with the Indonesian passport is fine. The agents know that the US will let your son in. Then do as you planned, use the US passport for the rest of the way.

    Regarding your concern about the US imm officer and the lack of Indo stamp on your son’s passport, not to worry, they don’t care. We were never asked.

    Have a safe trip.

  19. avatar DXP says:
    September 12th, 2008 at 9:27 pm

    based on PN’s lengthy & boring explanation, DXP said oh thanks God, I am not Indonesian.
    I see no value at all being Indonesian, first there are a lot of unnecessary documents, evidents upon evidence, supporting documents, prerequisite this & that, at the end it is created to make people tired and opportunity to bribe the officers. Normally the bribes are accepted right ? Gov’t are to protect and serve the nation and society not to make it lengthy and difficult so that people’s limit are put in test and ‘the business as usual’ may happen.

    again, you should not be proud being part of complicated indonesia gov’t … nothing to be proud of

  20. avatar timdog says:
    September 12th, 2008 at 10:33 pm

    Timdog says DXP’s bizarre habit of referring to himself in the third person is beginning to grate.
    Timdog supposes that some people might find it cute – perhaps it’s supposed to sound like a naive-wise little Chinese sage hobbling around under willow trees and misty karst mountains muttering Yoda-like pearls of Confucian (confusion?) wisdom.
    However, timdog say it make DXP sound like dickhead.

  21. avatar DXP says:
    September 13th, 2008 at 5:38 pm

    timdog say it make DXP sound like dickhead.

    poor timdog, you as indonesian may feel be insulted, indonesian must learn to hear other independent opinions be it positively or no good but if deep inside your heart said … oh yes there is the truth of what I said, so be it … in anyway there is really nothing you can be proud of the Indonesian gov’t’ achievements isn’t ? pls be honest to yourself … btw is there any achievements?

  22. avatar Rob says:
    September 13th, 2008 at 11:32 pm

    DXP…

    And China’s recent achievements would undoubtedly cover the recent Olympic games, right? The games where the opening ceremony was the best ever but some of it did not even really happen. The same games where underage athletes had their dates of birth manipulated to ensure that the could compete.

    If you do not have anything worthwhile to say then it is better no to say anything at all. Sometimes it is better that people think you a fool rather than open your mouth and remove all doubt!

    Enjoy your Sunday, big fella!

  23. avatar DXP says:
    September 14th, 2008 at 12:04 am

    Rob, my doctor confirmed me that ‘love is blind’ is medically correct as the certain part of human’ brain have the cells to sponsor love, greedy, passion etc. According to scientific journal, when someone fall in love to the opposite sex partner, those cells overwhelming the rest of lthe brain’s logical thinking cells, as the result here we are the victim of ‘love is blind’ literally & scientifically proven cases.

    A bule married Indonesian lovers, surely will say Indonesia is no : 1 .. ha ha ,
    hv a longer orgasm tonight w your local partner & beef up your good fantasy about Indonesia .. g night fella, pst .. have you checked if you hv renew successfully your Overstay Visa of Indon ?

  24. avatar timdog says:
    September 14th, 2008 at 12:21 am

    Timdog says timdog is not Indonesian. Timdog is big bad bule. Timdog has endless criticisms to make of Indonesia, despite loving the country very much.
    Timdog also knows China, and finds it the strangest – and rudest -country he has ever visited. Timdog has never been made to feel so unwelcome as a visitor in a foreign country as was sometimes the case in China. At other times the people were wonderful, but those people were usually Uighers, Tibetans, Naxi etc…

  25. avatar Rob says:
    September 14th, 2008 at 12:44 am

    DXP…

    At least I have a certifiable medical condition! What is your excuse?

    Not sure that I ever said Indonesia was No. 1 but whatever.

    With respect to your point on orgasms and fantasies, perhaps you should re-read the point I made about fools.

    As a matter of fact. I have recently renewed my legal documents. I tend to get them renewed before I get into overstay territory…

  26. avatar Andy says:
    September 14th, 2008 at 5:29 am

    While attacking DXP, did any of you ever stop to address the real question here?

    He / She said that Indonesians and I quote-’indonesian must learn to hear other independent opinions be it positively or no good’ unquote.

    Sounds reasonable to me. This gets to the root of most of their problems. They are an incredibly insecure, oversensitive nation and goes so far as that even if a country thinks of a far better idea than they have, they cannot implement it because they feel they have to concede that they couldn’t think of it themselves. So they plod along in this mire of mediocrity watching other poorer nations now overtake them on the ladder of success.

    Rather than being a strength, nationalism is their biggest weakness. They are incapable of making decisions based on logic and common sense while they use their hearts and not their heads. It is even hurting their tourist trade. They cannot for example have the backbone to lock up a cold blooded killer of a bule woman he was trying to rob for more than 15 years. They will though lock up bules for a bit of ‘grass’ for 20 years.

    Regressive and racist and bringing down Indonesia, not picking it up. I would say maybe the only thing that can save that country is for it to be administered for a 10 year period by bules or chinese. That would root out the incompetent corruptors that are hurting them. Could do wonders for them.

  27. avatar Rob says:
    September 14th, 2008 at 12:51 pm

    Andy…

    Really? How much stock have you given the alternative arguments being advanced in this forum. You find Indonesia to be a despicable place of losers and no-hopers, interested in nothing but themselves, a nation of insecure people, and over-sensitive stand around do nothing types mired in mediocrity.

    Perhaps you should practice what you preach on this front. Stop and consider whether the alternative opinions and views of Indonesia are reasonable. They sound reasonable to me.

    You obviously had some bad experiences in your 3.5 years or whatever it was in Indonesia.

    The law is not perfect in Indonesia with regards to sentencing. It is also not perfect in most other places in the world, including Australia. Sure, Corby would not have received a sentence of 20 years in Australia, she in fact might not have received any time at all! Yet, this is not the point. The point is she was found guilty of committing a crime and was sentenced within the parameters of the prevailing law. Australians perhaps would be better served by understanding that if you traffic drugs and get caught the penalties are severe. Singapore sentences drug traffickers and smugglers to death. If I am not mistaken you called Singapore a beacon of human rights in the region!

    You talk about racism as if it is only an Indonesian problem and that you can see it by virtue of your position as an Australian married to an Indonesian. Indonesians recognize that racism is a problem. There are more than enough comments here in IM to see both sides of the debate. Yet, more poignantly your very suggestion that Indonesia needs to be administered by westerners (or perhaps just white folks) or Chinese is inherently racist.

    Perhaps what could do wonders for Indonesians and Indonesia as a whole are people committed to seeing things get better rather than standing on the sidelines berating Indonesia like a school child having done the wrong thing. I thought being a teacher was all about helping your pupils achieve their goals not tearing them down for their mistakes. I wonder whether this says anything about your teaching philosophy or something about you as a person?

    Enjoy your Sunday (take that as you like)!

  28. avatar Jingga says:
    September 14th, 2008 at 10:22 pm

    I wish folks would stick to the subject of this post/comment. But judging from the tone and attitude, yeah right, who am I to judge or wish.

    Anyway, Rani, to correct my earlier comment to your question, when leaving Indonesia to go to the US, you should show your son’s Indonesian passport (not the US passport), along with the American birth certificate (which they would ask you anyway). If you want to speed along the check in process, come to the airline counter with photocopies of the passport and the birth certificate so the flight agent won’t have to waste time making copies (and they would, it’s required for underage children traveling abroad).

    Afterward, your son can use his US passport on layover points.

    This is what we did several times without any issues.

  29. avatar Rob says:
    September 14th, 2008 at 10:40 pm

    Jingga…

    Good call! Maybe the thread has strayed off track because the majority of commentators do not have the knowledge on the specific question(s) posed.

    Thanks for your posts though. My wife and I will be soon be welcoming our first into the world. The second passport he will have will be an Australian one. With a bit of luck a similar scenario will be in effect as to the one you have described earlier for US citizens.

    You can always wish (or hope) that people will stay on topic here…good luck with that :D

    Although Patung does his best to strip out comments and create new threads from those comments that are not on topic.

  30. avatar Andy says:
    September 15th, 2008 at 4:07 am

    The problem is not so much for those babies born after the law was implemented but those born earlier who are trying to make the conversion.

    Rob, you will find the Aussie passport pretty easy to get. Will cost approx 1.2 million and a simple proceudre. The Indonesian passport on the other hand after taking in bribes and kickbacks will cost much more (bule taxes). My wife’s family did the paperwork. Don’t even think of doing it yourself.

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