You are wrong if you think President George W Bush is an enemy of Muslims.
The USA does a whole lot better job then many many other countries in making people from diverse religions find the place they want to call home.
In the US there are none of the problems like those in Australia where rage and unexpressed anger is simmering just below the surface between large sections of the Muslim and non Muslim population.
If riots like those between people described as Middle Eastern and Non Middle Eastern that occurred in Cronulla (Sydney) last year happened in Indonesia the Australian Police and military would be moving in to show you people how to control protesters.
President Bush has conservative values. He is highly critical of the social engineers in his country and abroad who are trying to destroy the human qualities that keep people more oriented towards harmony then selfish self- indulgent “anything goes” hedonism.
Your real enemies are likely to be sucking up to you, introducing young people to “Aussie” ideologies like making children more sexual attractive, “recreational drugs”, night clubs open 24 hours a day etc
I don’t believe that President Bush is one of those people.
You have been hoodwinked.
make sure that US companies could go on stealing the natural resources of Indonesia
I did not know that oil was being stolen from Indonesia or anywhere for that matter. Oil companies pay to drill and extract oil. If they didn’t then the oil would be worthless becouse it would just sit in the ground. It is not like Exxon sneaks into Indonesia in the middle of the night and steals all the oil while nobody is looking.
The only ones who have been hoodwinked are the religious conservative Americans, the family-values Republicans, who were so disillusioned by Bush and Karl Rove’s effort to please their “base”.
All the scandals that broke out really shows how far from family values his administration and his cabinet are. Sherwood the strangler? Ted Haggard and his masseuse? Ken Mehlman (who’s just been “outed”)? The corrupt Tom Delay? Ney? Hastert? the whole Abramoff story? The list goes on and on and on….
As a social conservative, Bush didn’t even adhere to free-market, small-government, ideals. His stand on spying embarasses his libertarian supporters.
Who’s been hoodwinked now?
Those idiots from MUI, UIT, KPPSI, Basyir, Fadli Zon, are not smart enough to even appreciate the humor.
Less humorous and more useful reactions would be if Indonesians who have a chance to see Bush would ask him the following questions (which I copy paste from my own comments since it’s more relevant here):
1. “If even your own people do not trust you anymore on Iraq, why should Indonesians?”
2. “Do you think you should lecture us on corruption when your own party was brought down by scandals (corruption, sexual, and otherwise)?”
3. “Do you think the world is safer now because of your war on terror or do you agree with the majority of your own people that your approach was too simple minded?”
4. “Why are you lecturing us on religious extremism when your own administration chose to abandon science to appease the religious right” (see Schiavo, intelligent design, stem cells etc)
You have been skipping your medication again..
The gift that keeps on giving….I see the Detik news now says that Ki Gendeng Pamungkas is going to put a voodoo spell on Bush….. should this be put under the category “humorous” or just plain lunatic?
Kathryn Pollard, I don’t disagree with you… If your comment was in response to my first post, you got me wrong here.
These people (who oppose Bush’s visit) bite the hand that feeds them.
“”¦bite the hand that feeds them” may be an overstatement, but Indonesia does get a lot of support and aids from the US.
And I do know that Bush is not an enemy of Islam.
Santet is more or less like Voodoo….
This is getting weird….
Btw”¦, as an animist I strongly object to the kind of acts by those so called paranormals”¦.
They are the kind of people who put a bad name to animism (people would think animism equals voodooism).
Animists around Indonesia, untie “¦. eh.. i mean”¦ unite!!!
Let’s get together in FPA, Front Pembela Animisme”¦. (Animism Defender Front), and crush those paranormals”¦.
Quoting Ki Gendeng from http://www.kompas.com:
Saya yakin bisa menyantetnya, sebab Bush adalah orang yang tidak suka humor. Karena saya selalu gagal menyantet orang yang suka humor.
Oops, wrong there, Bush likes to joke around.
Nevertheless, this confirms that Indonesia is a sick country.
Bush visit is very important for bilateral trade relation. America is one of Indonesia’s major trading partner, and this trade relation is in favor of Indonesia because its exported more goods to america than its imported. I don’t think the people who oppose Bush visit ever take this trade matters into consideration.
The gift that keeps on giving”¦.I see the Detik news now says that Ki Gendeng Pamungkas is going to put a voodoo spell on Bush”¦.. should this be put under the category “humorous” or just plain lunatic?
Dear Aloy, what do you expect from Gendeng person?
Gendeng in javanese mean loony(lunatic) or el loco in spanish.
andrew: you do love this bush character, don’t you? I bet if he said “jump”, you’ll say “how high?”. well, I don’t know, bush may be a religious person, but that didn’t seem to prevent him from lying. a person who lied to wage a war had no credibility whatsoever.
anonymous_alloy: ki gendeng pamungkas was just trying to live up to his name: gendeng!
Andrew, you’ re right, Bush loves to kid around, it’s been widely documented.
However judging by this article, a lot of his jokes stink (pun fully intended).
Hassan, whether or not I like Bush is irrelevant; but the reaction to his visit is just childish. I was just stating the fact that all these reactions to his visit is childish and out of the norm of a mature and respectable society (you can still argue that it is relative, I’ll leave that point open).
I do know Bush lies, I just don’t know how MUCH – but tell me a politician who does not, whatever his/her religion is.
hi guys… and girls…
Bush… what a topic huh???
funny, those who rejected Bush almost all of them are Moslem. if your great prophet told you to honour your nobel guest… will you simply obey his commandment or do your protest like what is happening right now?
then you guys tell me what do you call that such of action? those rebellion to your great prophet???
on one hand Muslims should honour their guests. but on the other, a guest who came to visit only to secure his country’s interests here, and who’s responsible for the death of hundreds of thousands of people, Muslims and alike, that’s a tough call.
and it is well known that bush uses his visits to ‘the worlds most populous Muslim country’ as a public relations, to show the world that he is still accepted by the Muslim people in Indonesia, his actions is still tolerated by Muslims in ‘the worlds most populous Muslim country’.
it’s a tough call.
I’ve read a rumour, and it might be right, Bush pay a visit here to secure connection to Indonesia, as Indonesia came closer to China…you know what I mean
I don’t think Bush coming is a very big issue that has to be debated. Nobody protest when Iran President came last time.
While Bush, I don’t agree with a lot of his policy either, but his coming should not be protested as grand as we are currently doing. Those protest are just pointless. If he want to really secure his interest in Indonesia, he dont need to come really, he just need to pick a phone and call SBY.
Please be mature, protester will gain nothing. Taking off your support from SBY won’t help you. I am sure, whoever holds the presidential chair, when put in his position, will still openly welcome Bush. As this is a adult matter, not childish matter that the protesters are yelling now.
it’s really funny to see how the over-reacted to bush visit… it’s just for stupid 7 hours… we must thankful because in those stupid 7 hours… 35 million USD aid is following. those who rejected him… actually moron… look how they protest infront of McD… and pizza hut… McD owner here is bambang rachmadi… he is religious Moslem people… and look who is protesting… what a pointless dude and stupid.
yo Hassan my friend… your crazy fella had to learn how to walk their talk dude… not only yapping crazy language out there….
I wonder how many are the protester who scream their bloody head off to “welcome” George Bush who would jump and form the line when given a chance to “Come and see” Bush’s country? I bet will bloody be loads! Hahaha what a bunch of hypocrit-lowlifes-scumbags-jobless-fanatics/lunatics arse!!
I am curious about people who call themselves “anonymous” when responding to a contribution to another who has provided his or her name.
It has meaning, maybe a sign of an insecure character?
I don’t know what you mean Mr or Ms Anonymous_Alloy (nov 11 11.15am) by saying that “conservative Americans were disillusioned by Bush and Rove’s efforts to please their base”
The way I read the mood, if Mr Bush had been hell bent on “pleasing” his base he could have kept more seats by just giving in – saying in the states where it really mattered that poste haste the troops would be home by Christmas.
You say that “All the scandals” were detrimental to President Bush. Now pray tell, mr or ms anonymous, did you come to believe that former President, Bill Clinton’s lying about his sexual relationship with Monica were reflective of the Democrats?
In the last few days in Sydney Australia a government minister was charged on 30 counts of sexual assault of children, using child prostitutes and paying for them with electorate funds, providing illicit drugs to children etc. Then a day or so later his 62 year old campaign man and friend was charged on 2 counts of raping a 9 year old girl.
Is the state premier feeling guilty? Is the Australian Labor party being blamed for cover ups? Well hardly. The state premier who leads the ALP has gone on the attack.
And as for the general populus in Australia are they more able to “tolerate” people in positions of power committing shameful criminal acts then the Americans ? Well maybe.
It is generally considered in Australian that there are good and evil people in all the political parties in government and in the opposition – just like in all the churches.
And what choice do people have? If the USA is as bad as Australia corruption and the abuse of power has become shamefully common. Truly good and smart people are discouraged or blocked from attaining political office.
As for “spying”, well if spying is what is used to intrude into people’s privacy – come visit Australia. Where I live, there are cameras every few metres in the street and shopping malls, in pubs and clubs -everywhere. Spying is pervasive via every means available.
Anonymity may suggest a hoodwinker at work?
There is a significant difference with Bush’s mistake and Clinton’s mistake.
But first, let me tell you, that I don’t oppose Bush’s coming to Indonesia as it is state matter. WHat happened to Bush is he is lying to the nation, yes all politician lie, but the effect that they cause is different.
Clinton lies to cover up his relationship probably will only save himself, and maybe smirred the nation’s face.
Bush lies is not to save himself, but to invade and gain advantage in other people’s country. There are many obvious lies (compared to CLinton) that Bush administration has done. No weapon is found in Iraq, and the terrorist is scattered everywhere. Fight for democracy, yes, but this is not the way (lying to the public). The last World War where FDR lie about German attacking US ship is forgivable, considering the later result. But going to other country and kill people’s mom (they are supposed to protect the civilian) and raping people’s daughter is not a right way to defend your democracy while you are trying to cover up the abuse of human right in your own country.
I dont agree that when a government advocate free speech and human rights but at the same time doing kidnapping of their own citizen and interrogated him outside the country to avoid the nation’s law.
It is a common sense. I used to support Bush, but now, it is different. Using God’s name to invade Iraq doesn’t justify your action the same as the terrorist using God’s name to blow up a building. Just be gentlemen, like CLinton, who did not let his personal problem to be put on the nation’s burden. Bush has given a heavy burden for US, and Christian.
I believe if Bush is Christian and one of Jesus’ children, no evil job will harm him
Look who’s talking.
Try and concentrate K, the post is about Bushes visit to Indonesia..
On another issue, I wonder if the protestors really understand what they are protesting about. The more power the Dems in the USA get, the harder it is going to be for Indonesia.
You can rest assured that Papua, Human Rights abuses, etc will get far greater support from the Dems than Bush’s Republicians. Bush was more than willing to turn a blind eye to Indonesia’s “little issues” to gain support for business and the “War on Terror”.
Oh guess what stand by for a heap more protectionist trade bills to protect the poor USA farmer from cheap Indonesia goods..
Still brains and research are not requirment in the Hive Mind
let’s welcome our fearless leader, mr. george w. bush.
but don’t trust bush kiddies. you know why? his words are BUSHits!!!
A president visit foreign country is for a relationship. Bush pay a visit to Indonesia instead of having conversation with SBY in Hanoi. When he came to spend a few dollars as a grant doesn’t mean that the relationship is in favor for Indonesia. Conclusion like that is too simplified. Even add with surplus in trade cannot be concluded as favor for Indonesia.
Yes, Exxon pay for oil exploration, sure it will not be free. Question is why Exoon need a government support in negotiating it with Pertamina ?, why need a higher Indonesian government officer to push contract aside from other competitor. Is it what it called Indonesian favor ?.
When you come to Bangkok and spend some buck for a pleasure, then don’t say it for Thailand favor, it’s just merely for your favor and for a prostitute sake.
When a thousands people want you to go home, since your money is not good for them then you just go home, or you can hide in a pimp house. Later you can say bad thing about Bangkok and his people as you want, but majority dont want you there, that’s it. It’s simply you, not your brother or sister. They are welcomed.
Oigal may be right that Indonesian government and businesses probably have more to lose with the Dems in power. But some part of the civil society and the NGOs, may actually welcome outside pressure. What’s bad for the government is not always bad for the people.
Not all Indonesians support government’s stance on Aceh, East Timor, and Papua, just like not all Americans support Bush’s decision to invade Iraq. By generalizing all Indonesians Oigal sounds eerily similar to all these radicals generalizing all Americans to be like Bush.
It is true that the Dems will probably push for a lot of anti-market policies (labor laws, environmental regulation) that actually will hurt the welfare of Indonesians. That is not to say that the Bush administration have always been pro-market either (steel subsidy, anyone?).
Take the the time to read my post properly if you are comment on it and don’t put words in my mouth.
I only presented the point that a Dem controlled US government will take far for interest in the “human” side of Indonesian society. I made no point if that be good or bad nor did I make any generalisations about Indonesians as a whole, unless you want to include the “hive mind” comment. Which I stand by as an apt term for any “rent a crowd” in any country.
I’d have to agree that Bush’s visit to Indonesia is just one of his image-enhancing ploys and visit his puppets in Indonesia. All the exploited peoples of the world know that Bush’s administration further substantiates imperialist blunder.
The citizens in America should not feel abashed about all the criticisms against their president because, they too, are victims of oppression. The criticisms are not aimed at the American citizens but the economic and political policies their government globally implements.