Beheadings Trial

Mar 21st, 2007, in News, by

The man on trial over the schoolgirl beheadings of 2005 is said to have carried out the attack as a Lebaran gift for Muslims.

Hasanuddin
Hasanuddin has been sentenced to 20 years.

November 10th, 2006.

Prosecutors at the Central Jakarta District Court allege that Hasanuddin, alias Hasan, alias Slamet Raharjo, who is Javanese, planned the beheadings of three Christian schoolgirls in 2005 as a way of avenging the murder of Muslims during the sectarian conflict in Central Sulawesi province between 1998 and 2002.

Prosecutor Payaman said:

The defendant planned or provoked others to commit violent acts aimed to incite terror.

Payaman went on to say that prosecutors had evidence that Hasan, who is the son-in-law of Poso Muslim militant leader Adnan Arsal, had plotted the attacks with a Muslim cleric, Ustadz Sanusi, in a meeting at the Ulil Arbab library in Gebang Rejo, Poso, in 2005. At this meeting Hasan told the preacher that when he was training with the Moro Islamic Liberation Front (MILF) in the Philippines he had heard stories that it was customary for jihadists to attack security posts and kill soldiers as a form of Lebaran charity for Muslims, at the end of Ramadhan. Sanusi then asked him whether such Lebaran gifts could also be given to Muslims in Poso. Things were different in Poso, Hasan said, but he would think about it. mediaindo

Hasan thought about it for a while and at some later point he is said to have gotten the idea of cutting off the heads of Christians while reading a book. He then told two of his jihadist chums, Lilik Purnomo and Irwanto Irano, to find some targets of attack. He admitted to them that killing women and children was not allowed in sharia law but that it was justifiable as a form of revenge for past Christian attacks against Muslims.

We had better find some Christians as an Idul Fitri gift. Go look around.

Within a few days these two men, Purnomo and Irwanto Irano, had noticed that six Christian schoolgirls regularly took a route along an isolated, quiet and lonely jungle path, on their way to and from school. The girls were observed four times before the day of the attack, 29th October 2005.


Picture shows the body and severed head of one of the girls. Click to enlarge but be warned it may disturb.

Six machetes were bought, costing 180,000 rupiah, and two black plastic bags, costing 20,000 rupiah, at a Poso market with money provided by Hasan. Then the holy man, Sanusi, told Hasanuddin to write a note, to be placed next to the heads of the girls.

We still need another 100 heads. Blood for blood, a life for a life, and a head for a head.

After surveying the scene of attack Lilik and Irwanto recruited five of their Islamic boarding school pals to help in the attack, that is Papa Yusron alias Isran, Nanto alias Bojel, Agus Jenggot, Basri, and Wiwin Kalahe alias Tomo. On the day of the attack, at about 06.45, the group observed four girls in school uniforms walking along the path. Lilik gave a signal and the attack began. Papa Yusran hacked off the head of Alfita Polino, Agus Jenggot did the same to Theresia Morangki, Basri slashed at Noviana Malewa's head but she managed to flee. After this Basri caught the fourth girl, Yarni Sambua, and beheaded her.

Noviana Malewa
Noviana Malewa.

The heads of the girls were placed in the plastic bags and later taken by Tomo alias Wiwin Kalahe to a house in the Tanah Runtuh district of Poso. The machetes used were given to another Muslim cleric, Ustad Kholiq, who took them to his home, perhaps as souvenirs of jihad.

Not long after the attack two of the heads were discovered at a road junction in Lage district, near a police station, and one of the heads was found at the front of a church in Kasiguncu district.

Hasan has been charged under the anti-terrorism law and faces a death sentence if convicted, which seems rather likely. He did not speak during the proceedings, which have been adjourned until November 15th.

Lilik and Purwanto have had their trials delayed until next week. The other men who carried out the attack have not been caught.

_________________

15th November 2006

Hasanuddin's trial resumed today and he admitted that he was "involved" in the killings of the three girls and attempted murder of Noviana.

I admit that I was involved in the matter I am accused of, but there are several things [which the prosecution alleges] which are not true.

Hasanuddin says that the idea of cutting off the heads of Christians actually came from the preacher man, Ustad Sanusi. He himself never uttered words to that effect, he claims.

The idea of the heads as a Lebaran gift came from Ustad Sanusi.

Also the money used to buy the machetes, etc, totalling 500,000 rupiah, came from Ustad Sanusi.

Ustad [Sanusi] gave me money when he told me the stories of his involvement with the MILF in the Philippines.

He did however talk of killing to his comrades:

I said it was okay to kill, but in a proportional way. It was war, and the war wasn't caused by vengeance, but because of God, you can't just play around.

However he did admit that one motivation for the attack was the past killings, some of them beheadings, of Muslims in Poso.

For example at the Wali Songo school many people were slaughtered. In other places babies were disemboweled, their parents hacked to pieces.

Another reason he said was as a "shock therapy", to remind people of what had happened between 1998 and 2001.

There were many attacks in Poso but where were the security forces? Where was the law? It was only after the beheadings of the three girls that presidential decree 14/2005 was signed, as if the killings [of those girls] was more sadistic than all the other killings!

He said he and the other men had received no payment for the attack. Finally he admitted:

It was wrong according to the law and religion, I admit I was wrong, I promise to never do it again.

The prosecution will begin its response on 22nd November. detik

________________

19th November 2006.

Hasanuddin, and the two other men on trial, today met representatives of the families of the slain girls and apologised. Albert Morangki, father of Theresia Morangki, accepted the apology on behalf all concerned. Hasanuddin said he hoped that this act of his would help in creating peace in central Sulawesi.

I have apologised many times before but this is the first time I have done it face to face with the families of the victims.

The meeting was arranged by the Jakarta police force and was attended by Jakarta police Brigadier General Anton Bachrul Alam, Poso police Brigadier General Muhammad Guntur, as well as Reverend Ernio, who accompanied the families of the victims.

At the end of the meeting Hasanuddin was asked to lead a prayer in which the recovery of the Poso region was hoped for. After that Reverend Ernio led another prayer. detik

________________

27th November 2006.

Jakarta Post says the National Commission on Violence Against Women deplores the reconciliatory move between the three men charged with the beheading of three Christian schoolgirls Poso, Central Sulawesi and relatives of the victims. The Commission's chairwoman, Kamala Chandrakirana, said that the move could interfere with the ongoing trial in Jakarta.

If there was to be any reconciliation, it should have taken place after the trial was completed. We're really worried that the reconciliation will disturb the legal process to find justice for the families of the victims.

Noviana Malewa, the sole survivor of the attack, appeared in court on the 27th at the trial of Hasanuddin. She said she did not see who had carried out the attacks, in any case they were wearing masks. She retold the events of the story:

I was walking with my three friends, Alvita Polino, Theresia Morangkir, and Yani Sambue from Bukit Bambu hamlet towards the main road. Then suddenly Alvita screamed because there was someone standing in front of her wearing black clothes with a mask on.
(Saya berjalan bersama tiga teman saya, Alvita Polino, Theresia Morangkir, dan Yani Sambue dari kampung Bukit Bambu ke arah jalan raya. Lalu, tiba-tiba Alvita berteriak karena ada seseorang berpakaian hitam dengan muka ditutup di hadapannya.)

Novita then ran back the way she had walked because she saw the men had machetes. She collided with Yani, fell, and then her right cheek was slashed at with a machete.

Then I got up and ran towards a ravine. At the same time Yani was chased by one of the men.
(Saya kemudian segera bangun dan lari ke arah jurang. Sedangkan Yani dikejar oleh orang bertutup wajah itu.)

She said she didn't know what happened to her three friends, she didn't see them get killed. After she got away she hid for a while and then followed the river back to Bukit Bambu. There she was taken to a hospital.

On the same day at the trial five other people were called to testify, none of them eye-witnesses. The trial continues on 4th December. gatra

_______________

January 17th 2007.

The trials are ongoing. Hasanuddin today denied that he had put about the idea to find Christian victims for beheading, in contrast to the testimony of Lilik Purnomo alias Haris. Hasanuddin claimed that he had said that it was most important to find victims who were native to the Poso area, instead of recent arrivals, like himself.

Hasanuddin also denied that he and Lilik had several times met to discuss the plan before the attack.

Both Lilik Purnomo and co-defendant Irwanto Irano, who are being tried together, separately from Hasanuddin, have admitted their roles in the attack, including the planning.

Irwanto admits to having cut off the foot of one of the victims. He says that Haris alias Lilik Purnomo was the "field co-ordinator" in the attack. vhr

Lilik Purnomo admitted to being the field co-ordinator but said he did not take part in the actual killings. He said he had recruited the five other men, Papa Yusron alias Isran, Nanto (Irwanto Irano) alias Bojel, Agus Jenggot, Basri, and Wiwin Kalahe alias Tomo.

Papa Yusran alias Isran, Agus Jenggot, and Basri, have not been caught, nor has Muslim cleric Sanusi, who is said to have been involved in the planning of the attack, with Hasanuddin. antara

The trial of these two continues on 24th January.

_______________

January 24th 2007

Today in court both Lilik Purnomo and Irwanto Irano admitted their guilt but expressed regret.

Lilik said he had planned out the details of the attack but did not actually kill any of the girls.

Irwanto Irano said he cut off one of the girls' feet but blamed Papa Yusran, Agus Jenggot, and Basri for the beheadings. vhr

_______________________

February 14th 2007

The prosecution was not ready to continue with its case in court today and Hasanuddin's trial is delayed again until the 19th. vhr

______________________

February 19th 2007

The prosecution has requested a 20-year jail term for Hasanuddin. Hasanuddin was said by the prosecutor to have been the "brains" behind the murders without actually taking part in killing. Hasanuddin is charged with terrorism offences. The chief prosecutor said that Hasanuddin had been involved in the murders of three people but in his favour he had been forgiven by the victim's families, he had expressed regret, and promised to never do it again.

The defence will make its case on 26th February. antara

______________________

February 20th 2007

The prosecution has requested that Hasanuddin's two accomplices, Lilik Purnomo and Irwanto Irano, also be given 20 year sentences, for terrorism offences. As in the case of Hasanuddin the prosecution asked that any time already served be taken off the 20 years. detik

______________________

March 5th 2007.

The presiding judge has allowed a request from Hasanuddin that Basri and Wiwin Kalahe, two of his accomplices in the murders, be called to give evidence that would mitigate the charges against him. The two men will appear on 7th March. vhr

______________________

March 21st 2007.

Hasanuddin was sentenced to 20 years for being the "brains" behind the beheadings. The sentence was in accordance with the demands of the prosecution. antara His two juniors, Lilik Purnomo and Irwanto Irano, were sentenced to 14 years each, less than the 20 years asked for by the prosecution. detik

Hasanuddin was heard to complain that according to Islamic law he should be freed, because he was only avenging the murders of Muslims in years past. He added that he had already said sorry for the killings and the victims' families had forgiven him so that was stronger reason for him to be freed. He said he would think about appealing the harshness of the sentence. detik

A UK television report on the beheadings.


78 Comments on “Beheadings Trial”

  1. avatar Grace and Mercy says:

    MK said

    I want to take this opportunity to apologise, none of my so called Brothers in Islam have done it, so let me be the first. I am heartily sickened by what these animals did to these innocent girls, I am heartily sickened by any violence against innocents, for whatever reason.

    Brother, you have a big heart. Bless you!

  2. avatar Czeslaw says:

    Hello Ihaknt!
    Thank you for your comment, reply.
    Hate is not a national program(?). But, when the fabric of family members of the society at large are put together with this ideology, we arrived at the Palestinian hate dogmas. Is it an Islam hate program or just Palestinian hate program?

    We were brain washed by communist propaganda for almost 50 years in school, work and everywhere, except our homes. But our family values, the peace, love and compassion were daily messages we heard in our Catholic churches all over the Poland and at our homes.

    The secret police came to work, home, schools, or other places and they took people, who never have been seen. Some where founded floating in the rivers, some where found dead by the road side, or in the wood. Thousands of examples like this. Sometimes entire families just vanished.

    Polish people never fell the trap of revenge and kill some communists – eye for eye, head for head etc. For almost 50 years we took beating by Ruskies and murders.

    Is Islam missing something?

    I am glad, today we Poland, join NATO.

    Gracy and Mercy, and the person who replied, both of you are examples of good will to all of us. Cheers, and peace to all of you!

  3. avatar Ihaknt says:

    Heh Czeslaw, read again. I don’t condone any of the action/murders. Hence I choose to look at it from outside the box and not believe in anything that media churns out and always question things put in front of me. But these people dont know any better. And as I said, if the government doesn’t stop the kids shows that promote revenge then the cycle will just go on and on. But I don’t see this as my problem, as they are far away and not my sisters or brothers or parents anyway. I just feel sad about the pointless deaths.

    Good on you for being proud of being Polish. Polish girls are very attractive and tall, can’t say the same for the men though.

  4. avatar Czeslaw says:

    Dear Ihaknt, thank you for your continuing interest in these difficult matters.
    Looking back, Mr Tibo, Mr DeSilva and Mr Riwu were sentenced to death, for this same reason this guy who killed 3 school girls. “Murder”. Because Mr Tibo, Mr. DeSilva and Mr Riwu, were “Christians” they were “executed” (murdered) by Indonesian Islamic government mafia.

    Now, making things clear, the criminal Hasanuddin, alias Hasan, alias Slamet Raharjo, who is Javanese, a “Muslim”, was sent to a prison term of let say 20 years. Wow!

    As far as the world public didn’t hear a single name of a person who was killed by Mr Tibo, Mr. Riwu and Mr DeSilva, and they were executed (murdered) for “it”. Here this Stalin-Hitler like psychopath Slamet Raharjo, is voicing his pride of what and how he did it, murdered these 3 school girls, and nothing major happen.

    Here is a typical mix or religion with politics. No division between, lead to the abuse on a national scale. Indonesian government have no ambition, no honor, no dignity, no HONESTY either. IS this reflecting Islam?

    I wish, that Indonesian government withdraw its Embassy from Poland. Maybe Islam is peace, let say. But what majority of Islam followers do, or allow to do, is just brutal kill and kill till last man standing will declare “victory” over all other dead bodies. Is this a jihad in the name of the great Allah?

    Nazi would always protect and defend Hitler, Goebbels, Goering etc.. Communism will always protec and defend Stalin, Lenin, Beria, Putin, Mao, and Ill Kim 4uck of N Korea.

    Islam in Indonesia will always protect Amrozi and Slamet Raharjo type psychopaths-terrorists, as long, as they are MUSLIMS. This turns out that Islam, turns own followers into psychopaths, and mass murders.

    I hope you all get the message. Islam, at all humanity cost.

  5. avatar Ihaknt says:

    Hello, morning, afternooon, evening, whatever it is for you. If you want them (the embassy) to get out of Poland, then you should speak to your government instead of in this forum, because it won’t get you anywhere. And your wish may as well come true. While you’re at it, please wish for world peace.

    Well, to speak in your terms, I am in the minority. And if you see any auction or any bid or to participate in executing those names (Bali bombers, etc) please let me know, I’d like to put my name in. I, in no way, protect, agree or condone what they did or do or are doing not only to the religion’s name but also to humanity and to Indonesia. I even support death penalty as punishment for them. I don’t like my Indonesia is being dragged further behind by these munafik f**kwits. I am not gonna argue about what followers do from what religion because the discussion will not reach an end (it’s been going on for centuries, so little me won’t make a difference). And to me exposing the bad of the others is not a solution. If you dislike Indonesia/ans so much then what are you doing here? Give me polandmatters.com and I will try to fix your world problems too. I am not being negative towards you, it’s just that you’re so far away on the other side of the globe, if you don’t have any relation to Indo then you wouldnt care right? How many polish care about Indo, Muslims and vice versa? I’m just curious of your intentions and (to me it sounds like) frustrations. Have a good day, sleep, lunch, whatever it is to you.

  6. avatar Czeslaw says:

    Dear Ihaknt!
    Here is sleepless night – morning?
    Well, it seems like there is some minor misunderstanding between us. I think, that this is due to the fact, that English is a 2nd lingo for both of us. Well, let’s have some fun with our miss-ups and not take it personally or as an attack or whatever.

    I do not hold any hate toward any national or religious group(s). Far from it. Life is really very short, and I enjoy mixing with others regardless of the territory or personal beliefs.

    Indonesians are people like everywhere. I hope they like and drink some good beer and wines as I do.

    I went into contact with Indonesian Embassy here in Poland. It was when the heat with the Mr Tibo, Mr Riwu and Mr DeSilva draw me to Indonesia matters, by accident. I just pick the news about them, and just follow up on the matter.

    While the heat went on, I made a motion with Polish Senate and politicians about the matter of these Indonesian man being abused, and later murdered by Indonesian Islam mafia. I went further to the EU essmbly to push the matter. I did get some responses from both EU and Polish politicians.

    Indonesia Embassies in Europa were contacted by each separate country of Europa, EU and here in Poland. However, nothing could stop murdering these men. Indonesia diplomatic channels plug the ears to the European community. Not only Polish. So, I spent some time and energy on Indonesia matters. I would do same, if a Muslim, Shinto, Buddha or what have you, got hurt like this. We are all brothers and sisters of human kind. We just do not want to be kind to one another. It is our own choice.

    So, I am against Indonesian Islamic government, and not against Indonesian people. I think, your government mixed to much with communism and religious nazism-islam thing. Indonesian government can not be unbiased on religious matters, for it have own stake in it. It have to push Muslim-islam agenda into all matters and aspects of Indonesian people lives. It always will support and defend own – islam side.

    Till you will have secular system in Indonesia at the highest levels, there will be no one to challenge and keep balance of religious and political matters down there. Islam will always dominate, and play political garbage in one session. Like wise would be here in Europa. So, there is not that I am attacking you, or Indonesia. But, keep civil no religious public life, and yes, have you religious right protected by your civil government, not religious government.

    No Polish matters that I know on the net. I do not spent much time over the net. It just happen with Indonesia matters because of Mr Tibo, Mr DeSilva and Mr Riwu murder. And now, we had this psychopaths and terrorists Amrozi and Hasanuddin, alias Hasan, alias Slamet Raharjo. My question is, how many of these are down there in Indonesia, if Indonesian government is covering up for them?

    For whatever reason, killing will always be wrong!

    Cheers and peace to you always!

  7. avatar Ihaknt says:

    Hey you, no I don’t feel I am personally being attacked. It’s the net. You’re far away. But just like anyone here I just wanted to vent out. I just wanted to know what your interest was and thanks for answering.

    Well, frustration wise, I think I am up there with you. But unlike you, I am not doing anything about it but just rant to vent out my frustration. No one else hears me but people who read my posts here. So, if you actually go out of your way, then good on you. I hope your efforts will come to fruition. Unfortunately for my Indonesia, I think it will only dream and dream more. It’s frustrating and very sad. And for me I will just drink and drink more. Cheers to wine, I don’t like beers.

  8. avatar Czeslaw says:

    Hello Ihaknt again!
    You see, people who are passive, like you are now, let others do the things which shouldn’t be done. Is Islam bad?

    Look at what Osama, Zarwahiri-the-Egyptian, and others in Pakistan, Iraq are doing to Islam!

    They have goal, they are active pursuing their own agenda for their own vision of Islam. What they are doing, are showing to people like me, that they want me to be dead one way or another, because I am Catholic. I follow Jesus’ teaching, I follow the way of the Cross. My 5th commandment given by Prophet Moses forbids me murdering another person. My 1st commandment given by Prophet Moses, tells me, that “I will have no other gods, before Me (said God). 2nd commandment tells us, “I will not take God’s name in vain”. And 3rd commandment given to Moses by God, was “Remember to observe the Holy day”.

    The 10th commandment says, “I will love my neighbor (that means you to Ihaknt), as you love yourself. And that I will love my Lord God same way from my alll power and will.

    So, your see Ihaknt, I want to be good Catholic, and thus I have to follow up on the commandments given to Moses by God.

    I can not find anywhere in Koran, similar values or words like are in 10 commandments. And I spent lots of time to read and reread and study Koran.

    Also, no other prophet known to humanity, disregarded other prophets. Except, people put in Mohammed mouth, that he is the only prophet of god.

    But here, you will have to go out of the box, out of comfort, and spent some time on the religions of the world, as I did. Understanding and acknowlegement of all humanity will enrich any life seeking the truth and peace to all humanity.

  9. avatar Odinius says:

    Amazing to me that a country that executes hapless drug mules won’t even give someone who butchered three defenseless girls mercilessly life imprisonment.

  10. avatar Karina says:

    Hi Odinius,
    I agree. Drug mules are only as bad as the people who buy their merchandise. The punishment system indeed needs to be revised.

  11. avatar Abdul Sameeu says:

    Killing innocent and the weak is outrageous be it muslim, christian, jew or any other… and it is deeply saddening to see all this happen! Teachings of islam doesnt support killing of innocent people. I believe that hassanuddin must be executed as according to shariah! What he did was unjust and barbaric! And I send heart felt sympathy towards the parents of these victims.. no words can say how you feel when you lose your dear children.. May allah straighten our life to the right path! amin.

  12. avatar Dragonwall says:

    Amrozi’s case is a cold hang over from the judge, noting the duration of time taken for the execution which in latter days they will request for pardon and stay of execution.

    Whether they are Christians or Muslim they are all you pri brothers and sisters and yet that have to happened because of someone reading a book and someone calling himself a Ustad instigating the execution on those innocent schoolgirls. I just wonder how they feel if those victims were the next of kin.

    And I thought these execution were carried out in Serbia, Bosnia and Herzegovina when they were part of an extricated communist society. Or in Iraq under Saddam Husein authoritarian dictatorship.

    Unbelievable that these people were still alive amidst their presence surrounded by that many Christians.

    I suppose the tolerance of Christianity are far reaching than those of them jihadist.

  13. avatar Czeslaw says:

    Hello Dragonwall!
    It is nice that someone brought this matters back on the agenda.

    As far as the Balkan regions are concerned: Serbia, Bosnia, Herzegowiana at-al former Jugoslavia, is concerned, this is very peculiar region in the world. Most troubles started there preceding WWI and WWII closely followed the suit.

    That part of the Europa is the closest end to the Muslim world. Bulgaria seems in better position in that regard, even thought they lost the part of own country to the aggressors from Islamic Turkey.

    There were or are we can say, two major mental illnesses in the world:
    One – and the biggest mental disorder is the communism
    Two – and next in in order is the Nazism both based on religious bases or political basis.

    Islam turn it self into the religious Nazism with its ideology. Here it is what I am trying to say. I will paraphrase the Koran text. All Muslims will not have problem referring to the proper suras to find:

    … all the rest of humanity on this earth must follow and convert to the Islam, …or pay the Islam Tax, …or be slain if not doing one of the above.

    Hitler’s Nazism was basically this same tune. About 150-165 millions of people lost their lives due to the Communism-Nazism mental disorders. I am not sure how many people where slain by the Islamic-Nazism. There was a big case of Ormians but that only call for about 2-3 million of Omriams which were slain by Turkish Muslims between 1912-1915 or so. Young Turks were expending Islam as far as they could. Southern Europa was luted many times. Rome fell few times to Muslims, and southern part of Spain and France. Perhaps 100s of thousands of people were slain by Muslims in Europa at that time.

    The Christianity is wrapped in the forgiveness trap. If you will read Jesus’ last word before he gave His last breath on the cross was, “…Father, forgive them, for they know not what they are doing…”

    So, since we were little kids as a Catholics, we were taught about compassion and forgiveness. There are other strong quality of Catholic faith, which is based on Jesus’ teaching. In our Lord’s Prayer, is the passage in the prayer to our Yahwe God, Jesus told us to pray that way: “…and forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespassed against us…”

    Here is very strong Christianity teaching, that in order of our sins be forgiven by God, we MUST forgive first, to those who sinned and trespassed against us. Imagine saying our Lords Prayer every day with these words. That is why is so hard for Christians to be aggressive towards others. The believe system is based on forgiveness and love.

    Muslims/Islam have nothing like this in their teachings. The ideology of islam is based on the revenge and killing of those who sent out (banned) Mr. Muhammad out of Mecca those years. Mr Mohammed didn’t prayed to his Allah, “Father forgive them for they know not what they are doing..” like Jesus Christ did. Mr. Muhammad’s life wasn’t even in danger. But Mr. Muhammad have chosen to avenge his humiliation and turn to a bad guy.

    Him and His wolf packs was ambushing caravans between Mecca and Medina and other parts of Arabia. They were robbing off caravans of their goods, and were killing people who were with the caravan. They tried several times to lute Mecca.

    Well, that is the legacy of the beginning of the Islam movement as we know it. These are just historical facts, and not someone’s trying to stain some religious believes and values.

    Peace be with you Dragonwall and your love ones, always. . .

    …and forgive those who sinned against you. Amen.

  14. avatar Czeslaw says:

    Abdul,
    I have a very good pals from Yemen, Abdullah, the other one is Mash. They work in different grocery stores.

    They share your point of view. But what I found out, they are not strict Muslims. They enjoy their freedoms and economical gains of the wester evils, like us. They have okay jobs more than enough to support their families here, and back home in Yemen.

    They are very happy living in their own apartments, owning a couple of cars, nice beds, and all kitchen stuff. Their kids have nice toys and friendly kids to play with. They are still Muslims, but not practicing Muslims.

    I wonder how it would be different scenario, if I and my Polish family would live in Saudi, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Sudan, or Indonesia.

    Would we be able to go to our Catholic church in Saudi Arabia or any Arab country, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Sudan, or Indonesia?

    Think for a little bit here.

    But you have a great human heart Abdul.
    Let your Allah shower you and your family with His blessings. Amin.

  15. avatar Bronson says:

    Quite frankly this is all BS! The most brazzen part of this is that he felt that his verdict was stiff, especially since he apologized, WTF seriously?! 6 men attacking young women, nothing butt faggot cowards! This scenario deserves an eye for an eye, he got off easy with a 20 year sentance! These are the kinds of instances that make me have little regard for the human race especially infectious human waste as Hasanuddin. Hope Hasanuddin becomes someone’s girlfriend in prison! No matter previous circumstances 1998-2001, screw this guy!

  16. avatar Czeslaw says:

    Bronson:
    Hardly anyone can disagree with your point of view, and rightly so.
    However, the 5th commandment given to the Moses, the prophet of the prophets, “One shall not kill” or perhaps the other translation of the Aramaic “One shall not murder”
    One shall not kill, and One shall not murder, opens the gates to the discussion of the issue.

    My thinking is, why not take the two versions that one shall nor kill, nor murder! And obey it!

    Other religions have own rules. Islam for the fact states openly that those who do not submit must be slain. If a person will not pay tribute to the Arabs, will not convert to Islam, that person must be slain, according to their teachings and their holy book koran.

    I don’t believe that there is any religious leanings in the koran, except using the name of Allah, which is the name of the god in the Arabic language.

    No other prophet ever from whatever religion try to eliminate any other prophets, except of those who wrote the “koran” and are putting their own words of hate into the mouth of deceased Mohammed. In any measure of realistic logic there is too much time passed between Mohammed’s death, and the first version of koran which came out abut 250 years after his death.

    Coming back to the psychopathic-killers like Hasanuddin, and other psychopathic imams and mullahs who are spreading the hate, it is all political game of Indonesian government. They will play with the lowest levels of the psychopaths, but will not touch the highest levels which are actually the real problem. Typical communist approach to the matter.

  17. avatar Bronson says:

    CZ, well put.

    I think what bothers me the most about these despicable situations is that I find myself becoming more hateful and unwilling to endure my fellow man. It’s frustrating but it’s the cowardly behavior upsets me the most. These guys aren’t challenging worthy adversaries they target the smaller and the weaker as a means to provide their message. I hope they all endure the tortures of the damned! I am not a religious person, nor I doubt I will ever become religious. It seems to me the older I get the more problems arise and usually have some type of connection to religion. I am to the point where I wonder if the founding fathers follied with the 1st amendment.

  18. avatar ibti says:

    … I’ve been reading some of…. your comments. i cannot help bet feel extremely enraged at what u people have to say about Muslims (and no i won’t be beheading anyone). Every religion has one goal one point they’re trying to get to. And that point is justice. The fact that because some screwed up confused people in the head call them selves Muslims and do all this evil call them selves, I’m sorry the correct term is CLAIM to be Muslims… suddenly ALL of Islam is bad?! the Vietnam war, World War 1 and 2.., what were the religions fighting? It was not the Muslims that is for certain! so before you go judging a religion that you know nothing of research the truth rather than the lies. Also on another mental note for you, make sure the facts you collect are reliable and TRUE not just what makes Christians look like saints. The following paras are from this link http://www.revisionisthistory.org/talmudtruth.html read it… and see if u speak so highly of the Jews there is nothing like this in the holy book of Quran!

    Gittin 69a . To heal his flesh a Jew should take dust that lies within the shadow of an outdoor toilet, mix with honey and eat it.

    Shabbath 41a. The law regulating the rule for how to urinate in a holy way is given.

    Yebamoth 63a. States that Adam had sexual intercourse with all the animals in the Garden of Eden.

    Yebamoth 63a. Declares that agriculture is the lowest of occupations.

    Sanhedrin 55b. A Jew may marry a three year old girl (specifically, three years “and a day” old).

    Sanhedrin 54b. A Jew may have sex with a child as long as the child is less than nine years old.

    Kethuboth 11b. “When a grown-up man has intercourse with a little girl it is nothing.”

    Yebamoth 59b. A woman who had intercourse with a beast is eligible to marry a Jewish priest. A woman who has sex with a demon is also eligible to marry a Jewish priest.

    Abodah Zarah 17a. States that there is not a whore in the world that the Talmudic sage Rabbi Eleazar has not had sex with. On one of his whorehouse romps, Rabbi Eleazar leanred that there was one particular prostitute residing in a whorehouse near the sea, who would receive a bag of money for her services. He took a bag of money and went to her, crossing seven rivers to do so. During their intercourse the prostitute farted. After this the whore told Rabbi Eleazar: “Just as this gas will never return to my anus, Rabbi Eleazar will never get to heaven.”

    Hagigah 27a. States that no rabbi can ever go to hell.

    Baba Mezia 59b. A rabbi debates God and defeats Him. God admits the rabbi won the debate.

    Gittin 70a. The Rabbis taught: “On coming from a privy (outdoor toilet) a man should not have sexual intercourse till he has waited long enough to walk half a mile, because the demon of the privy is with him for that time; if he does, his children will be epileptic.”

    Gittin 69b. To heal the disease of pleurisy (“catarrh”) a Jew should “take the excrement of a white dog and knead it with balsam, but if he can possibly avoid it he should not eat the dog’s excrement as it loosens the limbs.”

    Pesahim 111a. It is forbidden for dogs, women or palm trees to pass between two men, nor may others walk between dogs, women or palm trees. Special dangers are involved if the women are menstruating or sitting at a crossroads.

    Menahoth 43b-44a. A Jewish man is obligated to say the following prayer every day: Thank you God for not making me a gentile, a woman or a slave.

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