Israeli Aircraft

Oct 12th, 2006, in IM Posts, by David

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45 Comments on “Israeli Aircraft”

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Ali Says:
October 18th, 2006 at 11:44 pm
One thing I notice is that (some) people use the word “Jews” when referring to the Israeli (government).

Whether it means good or bad is irrelevant, but this is just not right.
Molisan Tono Says:
October 19th, 2006 at 11:13 am
Hassan my friend… do you also aware that Christian, no matter cath or Christian is also brother? do you aware what we all think about recent killing againts a pastor in palu? do you know what we felt about it?

we are minor, and yet we are being kill easily… and no suitable law yet to drag all those killers and criminal and terrorist for their crime against humanity and maybe religion and God.

have you figure that out my friend? what are you trying to prove to us anyway? how truthful you are?
O. Bule Says:
October 19th, 2006 at 10:46 pm
Indonesia has been buying defense equipment from Israel for ages. They just camoflage it. Take the case of the ex Israeli A-4 Skyhawks.

While Pak Harto was still boss, back in the ’80s, it was necessary for the AU to replace its old, worn out MIGs for ground attack, and the most cost effective ground attack plane was the Isreli modified, Douglas A-4 Skyhawk. The Israeli’s (who got them originally from the U.S.A.) were replacing them in service with the F-16, and were selling them off at great prices, considering how outstandingly maintained and upgraded they were. However, the issue of Indonesia dealing directly with Israel was touchy.

So, the Office of the Military AttachÃ© for Defense Programs (OMADP) in the U.S. Embassy was enlisted to facilitate things. With OMADP’s help, the deal went like this: First, Israel “sold” the planes to Singapore (who had no use for them and were only in the deal to provide a cover for the Indonesian government’s purchase from Israel; payment was made with Indonesian money). Then, the Singaporeans did a little polishing and so forth on the planes and flew them around a little (less than a year). Once a decent interval had elapsed, Indonesia “bought” the planes from Singapore (actually they only gave them a relatively tiny sum, to compensate the Singaporeans for their help in the matter). Many such deals as this transpired over the years.

So, as you see, the Indonesian government has been dealing with Israel for years.

O. Bule
Mohammed Khafi Says:
October 20th, 2006 at 2:51 am
Hassan,

You said:

you do know that once india, pakistan, and Bangladesh are one nation, india. pakistan then decides to claim independence from india, and the nation of pakistan is then further split into two when Bangladesh wanted their own independence.

Pakistan was partitioned by the British prior to the Independence of India as the population was predominantly Muslim, Bangladesh was formed due to social inequalities between West and East Pakistan and cultural problems between the Bengali’s of Bangladesh and the Punjabi’s of West Pakistan.

Considering the religious differences, social inequalities and cultural differences between us and West Papua, don’t you think that we should consider giving West Papua back to the Papuans, just in case the same sort of violent upheaval takes place between them and us as took place between the Hindu and Muslim Indians and between the Muslim West Pakistani’s and the Bangladeshi’s.

We seem to have the same problems learning from others history as we do from our own.

Peace
Anonymous_aloy Says:
October 20th, 2006 at 4:13 am
Oigal, Murdoch may actually be a closet liberal, surprisingly enough (see last week’s New Yorker). He recently appeared in a number of fund-raisings for the Clintons to the dismay of the conservatives. I think he’s just hedging against the possible defeat of the Republicans in the coming mid-term election.

Fox News is as close as you can get to a propaganda channel in a democratic country. Bill ‘loofah’ O’Reilly’s softball interview with GWB a few nights ago was a joke. John ‘five in the noggin’ Gibson is the worst and possibly the dumbest, Hannity close second. And they’re complaining about MSM having a liberal slant.

But I digress. What was I going to say? Oh yes. It’s clear that anti-Semitism among Indonesian Muslims is on the rise in past decades. It was not always the case. One turning point was when Hamas succesfully hijacked the Palestinian cause and painted it as an Islamic cause. Before that it was a Pan Arab cause and Indonesians had nothing to do with it. Now we have many Indonesians reading “The Protocols..” and foolishly believed it.
Hassan Says:
October 20th, 2006 at 6:34 am
Mohammed Khafi: oh sure, we should give West Papua back to the Papuans, Aceh to Aceh people, and release Riau too. Problem solved. no more demonstrations by those people to deal with. Khafi, my stance is firm on this: Indonesia should never be balkanised. Timor is enough.

mahmood: no, I don’t want to be an Arab. specially with how things are going in the world today, you know, with the war on terror thingy and all. I was just expressing my sympathy for them.

Molisan Tono: agreed. i can imagine how hard it is to be a minority. not just in Indonesia but anywhere in the world. and I also agree that this nation should tighten up it’s law-enforcement so that no crime towards humanity and religion will go unpunished. the killing of rev. irianto kongkolI had just added more to the list of unsolved murders that occured in our country.

I am also worried that the failure to find munir’s murderers (and the release of the operative, polycarpus) will set a bad presedence for this kind of tragedies in the future. tono, these acts of savagery knows no boundary or religion, as munir was a Muslim.

lastly, I’m not trying to proove anything about myself, I was just stating my oppinions on current issues here, on our lovely channel called “Indonesia matters”. I’m not here to impress anybody, there is no good in that. and hey, we don’t personally know each other here..
Oigal Says:
October 20th, 2006 at 8:09 am
Hassan,

Thanks for the response and I don’t necessarily disagree with you in that post, However, it had nothing to bo with the point I raised which was to challenge your comment and one so oft heard the a JEW owned Fox which is simply false in every way.
TheWrathOfGrapes Says:
October 20th, 2006 at 9:03 am
Hassan, if Indonesia insists on “ethical” dealings, then she will have no countries in the world to do business with, even with Indonesia itself. But specifically, you have a special hatred for Jews, Israel and Israelis. Just to ease you mind, I have no dealings with them and I am not an apologist for them. But my question to you is: “what has Israel done to Indonesia in general and you in particular to warrant such hatred?”
Mohammed Khafi Says:
October 20th, 2006 at 10:49 am
TheWrathOfGrapes:

Hassan is just putting his religious practices into everyday use, he seems generally to follow what others tell him rather than have any self reasoned ideals.

Peace

Hassan said:

we should give West Papua back to the Papuans, Aceh to Aceh people, and release Riau too. Problem solved. no more demonstations by those people to deal with.

What are you doing now Hassan? trying to use peoples fear of national disintegration in an attempt to defend our unlawful occupation of West Papua. Shame on you.

Aceh, and Riau are a completely different case from West Papua, both ethnically, geographically, and historically, if you cannot see that you must be blind. . . you’re not a politician by any chance are you?

Peace
Bradlymail Says:
October 20th, 2006 at 3:35 pm
Hassan did Islam teach us to hate or kill the Jews? for me this is between the Arab and the Jew personal problem. For us, Indonesian, there is nothing to against the Jew.
Bas Says:
October 26th, 2006 at 6:34 am
They try to keep it “secret” but Israelians are doing the maintenance of Garuda’s planes and other Indonesian companies airplanes for years! Go to Yogjakarta airport and have a look. A Muslim friend of mine even marry an Israelian mechanics in Yogja lol…

I am not sure but if I remember well, it’s the Israelian airline state company who do the job. Not a private one.

Business is business…
Hassan Says:
October 27th, 2006 at 10:39 pm
Mohammed Khafi: if (hypothetically) west papua is colonialised. i reckon that the real colonializer is the country that had benefited the most from papua’s rich natural resources, that country is not Indonesia. you’re barking on the wrong tree.

you do like to stereotype others, don’t you?

“Hassan is just putting his religious practices into everyday use, he seems generally to follow what others tell him rather than have any self reasoned ideals.”

no, did not, what I have said was actually my own ideals. there is the notion that people tend to be like their surroundings, maybe my statements seemed “conservative” because I lived around people of the same type. and yours seemed “liberal” because you lived around those kind of people. that doesn’t necessarily meant that we followed what others told us, but maybe just a simple environmental bias.

———-

TheWrathOfGrapes: i don’t personally hate the Jews, i don’t like them killing my Muslims brothers daily, that’s for sure. how would you feel if you’re brethren were slain every single day by a bunch of people?

i don’t hate the Jews as an ethnic, I only hated Israel the terrorist country. why did i advocate that we should not do dealings with Israel, or even the US for that matter? not simply because i hated their guts, but because those countries will use the income they gathered from trades to strengthen their economy and ultimately their military. and they will use their military to further oppress and kill more Muslims worldwide.get the picture?

i don’t want money from our country be used by the Israeli to kill Palestinian Muslims.

as mohammed khafI said: we must break the evil cycle somewhere. i wondered why he didn’t advocate that (to not deal with isreael)? maybe because he somehow developed a pro western attitude (with their blame Muslims tendencies) somewhere in his heart.
Andrew Says:
October 27th, 2006 at 11:19 pm
what happens in vegas, errr… the middle east, stays in the middle east.

I have a Palestinian and a Jew in my team of 10, i can tell you how great i feel to see them work together and befriend each other like nothing happens back home.

off topic, but you know what i mean.
Mohammed Khafi Says:
October 28th, 2006 at 2:37 pm
Hassan Said:

if (hypothetically) west papua is colonialised. i reckon that the real colonializer is the country that had benefited the most from papua’s rich natural resources, that country is not Indonesia. you’re barking on the wrong tree.

Who’s soldiers went into West Papua Hassan? Who’s corrupt government officials and business men are profiting?
John Says:
April 10th, 2010 at 8:35 am
Why is does foxnews love the british too much. The British still occupies a tiny section of Ireland and they call it Ulster. Down with the British give up all your overseas Territorial regions including your colony of North region of Ireland and tell Rupert to go to hell.