Swiss Minaret Ban Outrage

Dec 1st, 2009, in News, by

Swiss Minaret Ban PosterIndonesian government and religious leaders defend religious freedom for Swiss Muslims.

Leader of Indonesia’s largest Muslim organisation, Nahdlatul Ulama (PBNU), KH Hasyim Muzadi, said of the recent referendum vote in Switzerland to forbid the construction of new minarets on mosques

It’s regrettable, it shows the Swiss are not tolerant about religious freedom.

Hasyim MuzadiThe man reputed to be the 18th most influential Muslim figure in the world, and the leader of the august World Council on Religions for Peace (WCRP) said the NU would send a note to the Swiss embassy in Jakarta asking for an explanation of the matter.

Marty NatalegawaIndonesia’s Foreign Minister, Marty Natalegawa, joined in protesting: thejakartapost

We are deeply disappointed by the Swiss decision, which is contradictory to its image as an inclusive and tolerant nation

Bernardino RegazzoniOn 14th October 2009, Swiss ambassador to Indonesia, Bernardino Regazzoni, had informed both the Indonesian government and the NU about the upcoming vote, and assured both that the Swiss government strongly opposed the plan to ban minarets.

Swiss Minaret Ban PosterJust over 57% of those who turned out voted ‘Yes’, with a majority in 22 out of 26 cantons. The proposal was put forward by Switzerland’s largest party, the opposition hard-right Swiss People’s Party (SVP), as a supposed measure against Islamization, while the Swiss government opposed it. antara


147 Comments on “Swiss Minaret Ban Outrage”

  1. avatar rima says:

    .

    Indonesia’s Foreign Minister, Marty Natalegawa, joined in protesting: [1]

    We are deeply disappointed by the Swiss decision, which is contradictory to its image as an inclusive and tolerant nation

    I’m sure the rest of the modern world is also deeply disappointed by Indonesia’s (and other Muslim nations’) oppression of religious freedom and intolerance towards the minority (in their countries)..

    Hmm.. this is the classic case of ‘Maling Teriak Maling” methinks..

  2. avatar wong cilik says:

    .

    I’m sure the rest of the modern world is also deeply disappointed by Indonesia’s (and other Muslim nations’) oppression of religious freedom and intolerance towards the minority (in their countries)..

    Hmm.. this is the classic case of ‘Maling Teriak Maling” methinks..

    the rest of the modern world is also maling, oppressor and intolerance towards poorer countries

    in this case ” maling melihat maling teriak maling”

  3. avatar rima says:

    No it is not “maling melihat maling teriak maling”, because i wasn’t talking about how one country acts towards another, but how indonesia is criticizing another country’s internal affairs just because the ‘victim’ in this case share a trait with the majority of indonesians, yet indonesia is doing exactly the same thing, if not worse, to its own minority.

    So it’s not he same, especially when Switzerland is just protecting it’s own identity from ‘influences’ that are not in line with their way of life and belief while in Indonesia our so called ‘way of life’ isn’t even ours to begin with, it’s mostly imported from the middle east and shoved down our throats, even more these past 12 years.

  4. avatar Ross says:

    The sheer arrant hypocrisy of the Indonesians quoted makes one want to puke.
    Lia Eden, the yellow-bellied cops at the Monas demo, Al- Qidaiyah, Lia Eden, and of course the running sore of the lousy Lombok bigot regime and the unpunished thugs who persecute Ahmadiyah daily – those are exactly the reasons why sensible Swiss don’t want symbols of mediaeval fanaticism lowering over their civilised cities.
    Let Muslims disown and detain the evil brutes like Shek Puji in Java and that moronic Grand Mufti in Arabia who endorses pedophilia, then they can whine a bit about their minarets.

  5. avatar niceguy says:

    the problem is,
    when we (Indonesian, muslims, etc) ban some heretical sect, we are just being, well, us.
    it is a well known fact that we do apply religious law against heresy in our everyday life.
    but to have the same things came from a supposedly secular, liberal western country?
    so what this means is that now western people no longer have their claimed moral high ground for supposedly being “free”. We ban things, the west also ban things.

  6. avatar diego says:

    but to have the same things came from a supposedly secular, liberal western country? so what this means is that now western people no longer have their claimed moral high ground for supposedly being “free”.

    Ok so the west are secular, that’s right, so why can’t those islamists can’t respect that? Don’t tell me they’re doing it — building minogues — purely for spiritual purposes (if there is any, btw). They do have agenda while living and enjoying the privileges of living in “free” european countries. Produce as many children as possible and skew the demographics in their favor.

  7. avatar donny says:

    it’s just the minaret ban right ? not the mosque ??
    why bother ?? they still allow mosque to be built, right ???

    CMIIW, but as far as I know, Bali did not allow building more than 4 stories to be built
    I believe they think the same …

    how do Balinese feel if some American protested that it is unjust for them since they cannot build a 100 m high hotel there, for example

    cmon … stop playing victim and overexaggerate things …

    and we do have to respect other country’s rules & regulations …

    there are many important things to do rather than complaining about building rules …

  8. avatar Oigal says:

    when we (Indonesian, muslims, etc) ban some heretical sect, we are just being, well, us.

    They never banned the sect, not even close to fact..just the noise machines that disturb other people who don’t happen to follow that particular branch of worship. Its called consideration for others

  9. avatar donny says:

    Oigal … niceguy is totally right … he just put the comma in the wrong place

    it should say

    when we (Indonesian muslims) ban some heretical sect, we are just being, well, us

    he just being himself … and we should appreciate his honesty

    perhaps simplified as : no tolerance towards others who happen to choose other religion …

    when churches are bombed, burned … it’s OK
    when Ahmadiyah’s office ransacked … it’s OK
    when some stupid regency head forcing closure of all restaurants and food stalls in fasting month, even though there are many nonmuslims need food … it’s OK

    when some distant european country with small islamic communnities is banning the building of minarets (NOT mosque) … it is NOT OK … and all screams for this “injustice”

    don’t you get the point ?? If muslims does injustice to others … it’s OK … but if other people / country / religion doing the same … it’s not OK and all muslims should stand together to fight and slay western beast who “oppressed” them …

  10. avatar niceguy says:

    There is no real difference between banning the mosque it self or just the minaret.
    It puts undue stress on the people on the receiving end. It is a reminder for them, whenever they look at the top of their minaretless mosque, that they are not welcomed to be themself in this land (swiss).

  11. avatar Oigal says:

    There is no real difference between banning the mosque it self or just the minaret.

    What nonsense, at least you have moved away from the blatantly false statement of banning sects. It’s called consideration for others. It’s a simple noise pollution issue nothing more or less. No more controversial to most, than the law stating no lawn mowers before 9am and no loud music after 11pm in a residential area.

    It always is amazing how religions tend to demand respect yet do little to earn it.

  12. avatar niceguy says:

    But no noise pollution reasoning was used by the people who bring that law. Beside, they dont put a loudspeaker on the minaret there, it is just a decoration, to make it look like a mosque. It is just the same as chuch spires (which has bells), but they dont ban that. (if we are talking about noise, chuch bells should be the first one to get banned).

    I said Indonesian are banning heretical sects, like Lia Eden etc, and we don’t apologize about it. The swiss/west on the other hand, claim to be the bastion of human right, but their actions just speak the other way, aka: hypocrisy.

  13. avatar Oigal says:

    But no noise pollution reasoning was used by the people who bring that law

    Really? Or are you just making stuff up again???

    (if we are talking about noise, chuch bells should be the first one to get banned).

    When was the last time you heard church bells ringing five times a day, every day??

    I said Indonesian are banning heretical sects, like Lia Eden etc, and we don’t apologize about it The swiss/west on the other hand, claim to be the bastion of human right, but their actions just speak the other way, aka: hypocrisy.

    Again absolute nonsense! They never banned any sect or religion, what they did do was insist that people show consideration for those around them who don’t happen to feel the same way.

    Although you have a point, the bending over backwards by the west to accomodate people and organisations who have no intention of returning the courtesty should be addressed.

  14. avatar David says:

    But no noise pollution reasoning was used by the people who bring that law

    Really? Or are you just making stuff up again???

    That’s right, look at the voting banner, the woman in burkha, nothing to do with noise pollution, it’s about Islamisation, they see minarets as a sign of dominance. There are four minarets already built there, and they’ve never been allowed to broadcast under noise pollution laws.

  15. avatar Oigal says:

    Ah damn n blast!

  16. avatar ET says:

    niceguy said

    I said Indonesian are banning heretical sects, like Lia Eden etc, and we don’t apologize about it. The swiss/west on the other hand, claim to be the bastion of human right, but their actions just speak the other way, aka: hypocrisy.

    If I understand correctly you claim Indonesians don’t need to apologize when they go against human rights by banning so-called heretical sects. Only the Swiss, and by extension the entire civilized world, are transgressing human rights by banning religious symbols which they find annoying and are therefore called hypocrites.

    This is a nice example of Muslim logic.

  17. avatar Oigal says:

    I was wrong! Damn n Blast was working up to a jolly good anti-religious rant as well… To thing some people have been trying for years and tripped up by a newbie..ugh!

    Any off now to remove to see the foot from mouth doctor.

  18. avatar ET says:

    This is a nice example of Muslim logic.

    Or should I say Musllim arrogance.

  19. avatar donny says:

    .

    There is no real difference between banning the mosque it self or just the minaret.
    It puts undue stress on the people on the receiving end. It is a reminder for them, whenever they look at the top of their minaretless mosque, that they are not welcomed to be themself in this land (swiss).

    that’s all the difference in the world !!
    how could you say that there is no difference when Swiss still allow muslims to build mosque and allow them to go there and not kill you for choosing different religion ?

    check your reference … do any westerners allowed to build church (don’t talk about bell yet) in Saudi Arabia ?? with whatever reasons ??
    or even enter Mecca ? – unless they convert first, of course

    is this tolerance you talked about ?

    please DON’T talk about tolerance without seeing yourself in the mirror, first …

    and if you talk about noise pollution … try to live in Indonesia as nonmuslim … especially in Java … I wonder how they can get decent sleep with sooo many loudspeaker contest start at 3 AM and it seems that “louder is better” is the heart of it …

    does it ever pass in their mind that there are other people with different religion trying to earn a decent sleep ?

    dunno, perhaps their God is sooo far away that they need to scream out loud to ensure he heard them …

    though minorities, muslims in Swiss are allowed to practise their religion, well-respected, appreciated, and treated like human being. Simple minaret ban did not change the fact that Swiss is bastion of human rights …

    how could you be guest in other countries and wants to change its law according to you, and when they pose small restrictions on you … whole family screams about oppression and injustice

    whilst you did not allow others from different religion to be guest in your own islamic country ? … don’t even talk about practising other faith without losing your head (literally) – did you hear Iran put death penalty for apostasy ??

    Bastion of human rights my ass !! double standard placed by you and your kind is the cancer of human races

    remember Michael Jackson !!

    I’m starting with the man in the mirror
    I’m asking him to change his way … =D

  20. avatar Ross says:

    So a few buildings in Switzerland are going to be kept at a reasonable height, and the EU and UN twits are all at once on their high horses. What about this clip from MSBNC
    ——————————
    KHARTOUM, Sudan – A 16-year-old south Sudanese girl was lashed 50 times after a judge ruled her knee-length skirt was indecent, her lawyer and family said in the latest case to push Sudan’s Islamic law into the spotlight.

    The mother of teenager Silva Kashif told Reuters on Friday she was planning to sue the police who made the arrest and the judge who imposed the sentence, as her daughter was underage and a Christian.
    ——————————–
    Which case deserves the attention of people with consciences?

  21. avatar andy says:

    If a mosque was unexpectedly blown up while people were inside praying muslims may get a taste of what they’ve dished out to the rest of the world who they hope to eliminate in their need for world domination.

    Patung, not sure i’m sold on this thumbs up thumbs down idea. I’d like to read previous posts particularly niceguy’s who I didn’t get a chance to read. If we disagree with someone there’s no need to silence them. That’s hardly democratic is it?

    diego, liked your post! How come you can come up with such good points when you usually come out with so much crap.

  22. avatar diego says:

    diego, liked your post! How come you can come up with such good points when you usually come out with so much crap.

    Don’t worry, I’ll crap some other day. Chau1

  23. avatar Oigal says:

    If a mosque was unexpectedly blown up while people were inside praying muslims may get a taste of what they’ve dished out to the rest of the world who they hope to eliminate in their need for world domination.

    Andy, thats plain tacky in inference and in word.

  24. avatar Ross says:

    Have to agree with Andy, Patung.
    I have read many a post on IM with opinions which could have been categorised as grossly offensive, and I’m sure certain sparring partners have said the same for some of mine, but they were published and be damned. I’d only block the stupid ones which make spurious personal attacks. Did niceguy’s fall into that category. I don’t have time to go chasing after hidden posts.

  25. avatar donny says:

    stumble upon this couple days ago …

    Mehrab (Mosque) means the place of war, the place of fighting. Out of the mehrabs, wars should proceed. Just as all the wars of Islam proceeded out of the mehrabs. The Prophet had sword to kill people. Our Holy Imams were quite militants. All of them were warriors. They used to wield swords. They used to kill people. We need a Caliph who would chop hands, cut throats, stone people. In the same way that the messenger of Allâh used to chop hands, cut throats, and stone people.

    Ayatollah Khomeini: A speech delivered on the commemoration of the Birth of Muhammad, in 1981

    just 2 words …

    no wonder …. =D

  26. avatar Stefan says:

    Well, here some more information on this issue: There are just four mosques with minarets in Switzerland. The locations are Geneva, Zurich, Winterthur (Allthree are bigger cities in Switzerland) and Wangen (A small town). In the three big cities the percentage of yes votes (Yes means in favor of the minaret ban) was lower than average and Geneva gad the lowest yes rate. The highgest yes rates came from arewa with almost no muslim population. The highest yes percentage came from the canton Appenzell-Inerrhoden. The population there is often seen as somewhat hillbillish. In this canton the right for women to vote was introduced just in 1990 but not by the local law makers, is was introduced through an order of the Swiss Supreme Court. The referendum was initiated by the right wing populist Swiss People’s Party and their motivation was clearly racism. They often start referendums against immigrants but they lost most of them. They won the minaret referendum because they gained support from feminist organizations.

  27. avatar David says:

    ’d like to read previous posts particularly niceguy’s who I didn’t get a chance to read.

    Um, you can’t see the “Click here to see.” link?

    I don’t have time to go chasing after hidden posts.

    You mustn’t have long left!

  28. avatar donny says:

    think like this

    I am an immigrant from XXXX religion and now stayed in Indonesia

    we are minorities here … and now according to our belief, we have to erect statue of our god (50 m high) in our temple and built it like our religion told us to … in all of the cities where we worship him

    we used to place loudspeaker in the statue’s mouth so we can hear “god” speaking to us 9 times a day … and since the statue is sooo high, we put the volume of the speaker to the max …

    we don’t care whether our statue may disrupt the beauty of the city, or the harmony of the native people lived there … it’s our temple and we will do as we like …

    let me ask you question …
    do you allow me to do it ?? or perhaps we’ll be shunned and prosecuted like Lia Eden, Ahmadiyah, and the like ?? or perhaps some will come with swords to behead us ?
    do you allow us EVEN to practice our own faith ??

    don’t talk about minaret or statue or tower yet …

    got get a mirror before complaining … !!

  29. avatar donny says:

    Hi Stefan

    The referendum was initiated by the right wing populist Swiss People’s Party and their motivation was clearly racism

    whatever it is, they STILL allow muslims to practice their faith … and not going to kill them because they choose different religion

    and what do you think if some foreign immigrant wants to build giant dragon statue next to your house, which will roar 10 times a day to call his follower ? not to mention it will disrupt the harmony of the area … it’s painful to the eye to see

    or perhaps as per their religion, they have to walk on underwear only or even naked … are you comfort with that ?? we tolerate … but that does not mean that you can do whatever you like …

    respect other country’s rules & regulations … and put this matter into context, which is rubbish !!

  30. avatar diego says:

    I think this whole fuzz from the muslim world is just an ego thing. I mean it’s like a slap on their face from being told that “you are no longer special around here, if you want to get the same treatment like us, then be like us, live by the same rules we’re living in”. Maybe it’s just too hard for them to accept this bitter, cold, realities, after being pampered by political correctness of the europeans for so (too) long.

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