436 Comments on “Expats”

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1. mbakyu Says:
   April 24th, 2008 at 10:19 pm

   How about a little piercing down there? Girls do that in ‘Western’ countries as well (hmm I think even more than in ‘eastern’ countries, i don’t have the statistics). And while you’re at it, a little piercing for the man is no gonna hurt that much. They say piercings down there enhance sexual sensations. Hmmm… with this goal in mind, it sure is more interesting than circumcision. And.. get this.. it has nothing to do with religion or the color of your skin! Aint it grand?

2. Rob Says:
   April 25th, 2008 at 9:38 am

   Gotta say that piercings and circumcision are way off the original topic as Parvits’s original article related to the position of bules being just for fun and not being taken seriously, a bules inability to compete in his own country, and a god-king complex…

   Perhaps Patung can create a new thread that would allow more vigourous debate about the pros and cons of male and female circumcision and a new thread for piercings and any resultant increase in sexual pleasure…perhaps even a running poll where people can vote on the number of piercings they have and the sexual pleasure they derive from them…

   The bule arguments are always interesting as they are often personal and always, sooner or later, heated. The beauty of Indonesia Matters is that no matter how objectionable an opinion might be, it usually gets an airing!

   Parvita’s post has been supported and criticized in the 14 pages that come before this one. Therefore, there is not much to add in response to it other than to say that the argument will raise its weary head again, if not at Indonesia Matters then somewhere else in the blogosphere and we can then all migrate to that site and verbally bash each other stupid there!

   Have a good weekend!

3. Tony Says:
   May 22nd, 2008 at 11:53 pm

   I originally came to Indonesia in 1995 at the age of 29. I received a company car and a housing allowance–as did my Indonesian counterparts. I left behind a few girlfriends in Canada and I didn’t care because I never had problems getting women in my city.

   Most bules who come here do so for adventure. The thought of doing their same job in a foreign locale is intriguing. As for an earlier post that claimed a 49 year old bule never had to pay for sex–that is bullshit. Unless he was dating his pembantu and her friends, I dont believe it. Prior to getting married I didn’t date any less or more women than I had in Toronto. Most of the rich Indonesians I know also have a lot of girlfirends because of MONEY–they pay for gifts, rent a night out, etc.

   While some bules get a nice house in Pondok Indah, most do not. As far as having more women than they know what to do with–some are undoubtedly kupu2 malam. It sounds like Parvita got dumped by a bule and now she is out to disparage them all–no street cred at all.

   Overall, I would say that most bules I know and work with are normal everyday people. Same goes for the indonesians that i work with–everyday people.

4. Aluang Anak Bayang Says:
   June 8th, 2008 at 5:40 pm

   Overall, I would say that most bules I know and work with are normal everyday people. ..

   Hell No, Tony. Learn historical facts.

   Sir James Brooke, being one of the first Bule to land on our shore, began humping local children set a precedence for latter Bule arrivals.

5. lampu Says:
   June 23rd, 2008 at 5:52 pm

   parvita may have said it in a harsh way. too black and white maybe. but i can understand what she meant and there are many truths in it.
   i hang out mostly with expats rather than indonesians. at times it is 50-50.
   yes, i have heard many of them admit how they feel special. how they confidence is boosted since they moved in to indonesia.
   actually it is very common for them to admit that.
   they may not start the topic, but when asked, they will admit that. only when it is stated by others and put on their face that they get defensive.

   there is nothing wrong with feeling like that either. expats are considered an exotic creature. thats why indonesians stare at them when they pass by.
   they get a “hello mister” numerous times a day. i doubt that they get the same greetings in their own country.

   many times, they are annoyed by that, other times, they are happy to be acknowledge and seen as “handsome” exotic creatures.
   an expat mostly get a nice treatment by indonesians. even when they are wearing sendal jepit and ugly shorts. that are are these advantages of being an expat and every expat knows it.

   on the other hand, female expats are having a tougher time in indonesia, i think. that worth its own room for discussion.

   back to parvita’s comment. there is deep truth in it. maybe best if she said it in a less emotional tone of voice.

   MERDEKA!

6. MbakAditya Says:
   June 23rd, 2008 at 6:12 pm

   Aluang Anak Bayang Says:

   June 8th, 2008 at 5:40 pm
   Overall, I would say that most bules I know and work with are normal everyday people. ..

   Hell No, Tony. Learn historical facts.

   Sir James Brooke, being one of the first Bule to land on our shore, began humping local children set a precedence for latter Bule arrivals.

   Hehe, most bules are full of crap, in 15 years I have met few ( I was going to quantify but the rest get quite touchy when reminded) who were worthy of praise.

   All you get is continuous moaning about the state of things, though ther own home country may well be in a bigger mess. I rarely hear about the positive things that make this home.

   It’s amazing how a ne’r do well bule in a mediocre situation turns into a plastic viceroy when they hit the streets of Jakarta.

   They don’t have to know anything about culture, language or custom yet think they run the show.
   Sooner the old compulsory language test comes into play the better.

   As for the molesting, most of them now even get paid for it.

   Anyway, must go, nearly 3-00pm, it’s beer time.

7. theimp98 Says:
   August 8th, 2008 at 10:00 am

   Having spent some time in indo, married to indo lady now living in the US.
   Trying now to open a business to move back there.

   Why? because that is where she is most happy. I could care less where i live. All i need is a good book to read, a vido game to play, a motorcycle to ride, and a something to fly, and I am a happy.

   Many of the western expat i got to meet,
   1) not happy about being in a overseas spot.
   2) running from something back home. Normaly a marriage break-up.
   3) like I was. just out to see the world I was not looking to get married
   I just happen to meet somene I loved in indo.

   Now, both 1 & 2 on that list, had bad views of indo ladies and of the country itself. They saw all as gold diggers. However like I told one dutch guy, Stop picking up women in bars. ( and in chicken bars at that.).

   I saw a couple of women make some very bad mistakes, just becasue she wanted to white bf. The color or race of the person should in no way, be the main reason to pick the color of your mate.

8. Benjamin Says:
   August 16th, 2008 at 3:47 am

   I think Parvita makes some valid points, i think the majority of Bule’s who work out here are sub standard, infact, after working across the world in numerous countries, it tends to be the norm, they are indeed over paid, pretty useless at what they do, and back home would be mediocre at best. (and i am an expat saying this), that said, the locals are hardly on the cutting edge of efficiency and leading the world in business now are they?.

   Im presuming Parvita is reasonable well off, and i would bet my lifes savings that her good fortune was not acquired through a cunning sense of business and intellectual aptitude. The problem with this country starts and ends with corruption. How on earth is your average Indonesian ever supposed to rise through the ranks, become a successful entrepreneur and build this country when the odds are stacked against them?. Most large corporations fill top spots with foreign nationals because the local talent pool is lacking. If your not born into wealth in this country (bar the Chinese), chances are your not going to see any.

   Indonesia needs to demand more from the powers that be!, invest in education, eradicate corruption and put in place a strategy to compete on the world stage. Then we wouldn’t be having this irrelevant conversation.

   Parvita, don’t blame the Bule’s for your blues, its time you take a look around you…

9. Nia Says:
   August 16th, 2008 at 5:38 am

   I agree with Tony, most foreigners are just normal people. They think we’re crazy, we think they’re crazy. So everyone’s actually the same.

   I find it really sad to see how a small minority of Indonesians in this post just refuse to let go of the idea of the dirty, immoral, sex-crazy bule.

   “Hell No, Tony. Learn historical facts.

   Sir James Brooke, being one of the first Bule to land on our shore, began humping local children set a precedence for latter Bule arrivals.”

   Wow..I hope Aluang is just joking, because painting all foreigners with the same brush as some pedophile guy that came a few centuries ago is just really ignorant. By the way, I haven’t heard of this Mr. Brooke. Is his descendants still humping local children?

   We Indonesians have done so many bad things to each other. The rich extort the poor, everything is done in the name of status, and so much hypocrisy! It’s really easy to blame others as the root of all evil. Stop looking at other people’s mistake to make ourselves feel superior. “Ah those bule are so morally corrupt. We should protect our selves”. OH REALLY? Have you looked in the mirror lately?

   I agree with some of Parvita’s ponts. It sucks being around incompetent people, and it totally blows when they’re a**holes, think too much of themselves, and are rewarded by big salaries. This applies even if they’re not expats. Some here think she’s just being a b***h, too emotional, and speculated she’s hurt because she got dumped. But wouldn’t you get pissed too?

   I understand there is a point where the salaries in Indonesia just can’t compete with what they offer overseas for really high-quality talent. However, I don’t agree with her that the decision to work in Indonesia means they were desperate for lack of better jobs.

   I observe two types of foreigners: those that would consider moving to Indonesia, and those who wouldn’t for any amount of money. They would rather stay poor. Given the same professional qualities and opportunities, the ones who would move are more progressive, open minded, flexible and curious. Desperate? Not necessarily. They wouldn’t last long.

10. Ytre Says:
    August 16th, 2008 at 10:08 pm

    Dear Tony,

    It’s not nice the way you judge Parvita, saying that she was dumped by a bule. I re-read her posting and I don’t feel that way, that she is angry and desperate.

    I know some bule and I learn that they are just a normal human being. I know rich Indonesians and they are as rich as those bules, they live like kings too.

    I would suggest Parvita’s posting to be addressed to Indonesian, not to see bules the way most Indonesian see them. Bule are just ordinary people like us.

11. Tika Says:
    September 7th, 2008 at 5:09 am

    Time for a wake up Indonesia. I am an Indonesian person, who has never been to an international school. I learnt my English from strict indonesian teachers, and I used to be a teacher in Hong Kong, along side with my Phillippino friends. A lot of my friends can’t understand why I have an English accent. Maybe now, Indonesian employers have started to open their eyes and try local teachers. In Indonesia I am qualified in finance management, and other local qualifications.

12. Benjamin Says:
    September 7th, 2008 at 2:21 pm

    errmm..Tika?..and your point is?..i don’t know about anyone else, but im English and if i wanted to learn to speak Indonesian, i would much prefer an Indonesian taught me how to speak it…..than some local guy who had traveled to Indonesia..hahah!……

13. Tika Says:
    September 7th, 2008 at 9:45 pm

    My point is, it is time to realise, if a person is from a non native English country,and they learnt English, they will never speak like an English person That’s why in Hong Kong, many parents are now quite happy with Asian English teachers who have clear pronunciation. Because they used to overpay and worship English teachers from England. There is no difference in quality of education. As my teacher told us, never copy other white accents, just speak as your own dialect As Indonesia have many different dialects. However, you will pick up your parent’s dialect that brought you up at home. In my case I was brought up with parents originating from Lampung, that was the environment i grew up in, it isn’t my fault that I picked to sound slightly English, and my teacher was proud of me. Now I live in England, and am back to my old profession of finance where people never have a problem understanding me and I never had a problem understanding different English accents as many foreigner find themselves. Here I am surrounded by English neighbours and friends but you still can spot my foreign accent. To cut the story short I am just an ordinary Indonesian local girl who never had any contact with an English speaker before until I got introduced to my English husband by family friends (who happened to be his friend in Hong Kong). My husband never lived in Indonesia and we met and fell in love, got married,moved to Hong Kong and I was never shy with my English. There is nothing fancy about me as I found out many of my husband’s Cantonese friends- who are solicitors- their English is no different than mine. There are Indonesian locals out there who are capable of teaching English, and that will create new job opportunities for fellow Indonesians. My message is try to pronounce properly and the accent will go with it.
    bye for now, I’ve had enough of my essay.
    latez.

14. Rob Says:
    September 7th, 2008 at 10:34 pm

    Tika…

    I don’t think Parvita’s original point was really dealing with language teachers and one’s ability to speak English. Parvita’s beef is with Bules that are average in skills, qualifications, and experience being rewarded to a level that they do not deserve. In that sense she has a point. Is the stereotype and generalization true, no. But do these bules exist out there in the Indonesian landscape, yes. I do not think that Parvita has a beef with bules who are highly skilled and qualified. I might be wrong and Parvita can correct me if that is the case.

    The English language teacher discussion is probably for another thread. There are good and bad practitioners in the profession, Yet, this is true for any profession. Some native speaker teachers are worth the investment and others are not. This is also pretty standard for most other professions as well.

    Tika, I am happy for you that your life is turning out as you hoped that it would.

15. Tika Says:
    September 8th, 2008 at 1:29 am

    What I am saying is why not value local employees with the same pay packet as bule because they are just as intelligent as bules. And local education is still as good as anywhere else. As for my story is just one little example. Doesn’t matter where you gain your education, if you’re good with what you do, that’s all that matters. Sorry, I don’t mean to offend anybody, bule or local if is useless and do not worth hire and they should be fired,I hope this is ok.

16. timdog Says:
    September 8th, 2008 at 3:53 am

    Tika - why not value local employees with the same pay packet? Absolutely, would be nice, especially seeing as many local language teachers are experienced professionals with relevent degrees who take the job seriously, and some “native speakers” are incapable alcoholic reprobates with absolutely no skills for the job…
    So why the pay difference?
    Quite simple - ecconomics. People pay more to be taught by a “native speaker”; the native speakers make more money for their employers than the local teachers, therefore they get paid more (they also need to be given some incentive to work in Indonesia; the local teachers are already stuck there).
    Why do people pay more for “native speakers”? Well, people seem to think there’s some special value in being taught by a native speaker. Not neccesarily true (I’m pretty sure I could teach Indonesian a million times better than my becak driver). But it’s probably, to be brutally frank, simply a status thing - “Oh, my kids are taking classes at School X, native speaker, of course…”
    If people were prepared to pay as much to be taught by a good local teacher as by a bule, then the salaries might be the same…
    In the meantime, it might not be fair, but it’s the way it is…

    However, there are some F^%$n’ attrocious Indonesian charlatans out there running tin-pot “English courses” - I’ve run into more than a few of them, and the fact that they are taking money from unfortunate people, too poor - or in too small a city - to be taught by the holy grail that is a “native speaker” is a disgrace. One particular character sticks in my mind. He was the self-appointed “director” of a “course” in some minor West Java town; he’d got T shirts all printed up with the snazzy (if derivative) logo of his course, and was bullying his unfortunate students around the Bogor Botanical Gardens in search of a bule to practice on… The man was a clueless disgrace, a bully, stupendously arrogant, utterly convinced of his own ability yet almost totally unable to speak English - and he was taking these poor kids’ money… Even the most reproachable, sozzled old pervert of a “native speaker”, scraped of the Jalan Jaksa pavement at midnight on a saturday, would have made an infinitely better job of teaching than him… just the other side of the story…

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