Tibo, et al. Execution

Sep 19th, 2006, in News, by

Fabianus Tibo, Dominggus Da Silva and Marianus Riwu are due to be executed on either the night of Thursday the 21st, or the morning of the 22nd.

Tibo himself was handed a letter informing him of the planned execution at around lunchtime, Monday 18th, in his isolation cell in a Palu prison. His lawyer, Roy Rening, said that the families of the men had not yet received the letter.

Fabianus Tibo, Dominggus Da Silva and Marianus Riwu
Fabianus Tibo, Dominggus Da Silva and Marianus Riwu.

The day before, the 17th, a meeting was held to discuss the planned carrying out of the death sentences for the three men in which Central Sulawesi police chief Badruddin Haiti, TNI general Arief Sampurno, regional attorney general Hamzah Tadjah, and Central Sulawesi governor Bandjela Paliudju attended. They also discussed security measures for the event.

Major General Arief Budi Sampurno said, at the meeting, that his men were prepared to provide back-up for the police should the security situation get out of hand. Badruddin Haiti said he hoped that people would understand that the law was supreme and that no trouble would occur.

This is the second time that a date for their execution has been named, the other, cancelled, date was August 12th.

Continued....

Abdurrahman Wahid (Gus Dur) says he has tried to have the execution delayed, by telephoning the attorney general Abdul Rahman Saleh, but to no avail. He claims that the execution of the men would violate Islamic principles.

It is against Islam. Within Islam, if there is still doubt, then it mustn't be done.
(Itu melanggar Islam. Dalam Islam, kalau masih ragu-ragu, jangan dilakukan.)

The human rights body, Kontras, have also condemned the planned executions. Usman Hamid of Kontras says that the killing of the men will prevent the discovery of the truth of what happened in Poso in 2000-2001.

Father Jemy Tumbelaka of the Santa Theresia church in Poso says that the execution will be carried out on the morning of Friday the 22nd.

Six districts in Central Sulawesi have been placed on red alert by the police, they being Palu town, and the regencies of Poso, Donggala, Parigi Moutong, Tojo Unauna, and Morewali.

Meanwhile it appears that the three men have refused to accept the offer of state funding for their burials, such as the provision of coffins.

September 22nd

Fabianus Tibo, Dominggus Da Silva and Marianus Riwu were executed by firing squad at around 01.15 at an undisclosed place on the outskirts of Palu.

The men are expected to be buried in Beteleme village in Morowali regency.


62 Comments on “Tibo, et al. Execution”

  1. avatar Peace says:

    Hasan:
    1st of all Tibo and co. could be innocent and they also could be guilty. we don’t know the truth. how about if they did murdered all those people?? so don’t get too excited about something we don’t know about.

    It’s better to let the killers live than to kill the innocents.

    At least by letting them live, the masterminds can be caught.

    I watched news on TV (I think MEtro and SCTV), both said that the courts couldn’t prove the 14 charges against Tibo cs!

    That’s why many people think the court was fallible!!


    Amran Says:

    September 23rd, 2006 at 11:22 am

    Me, the Parigi People, the familiy of Poso Peoples.
    Said “Goodbye and may godbless for you, Tibo cs!
    for my families on Poso, Let us forget all of th conflict and life peace together”

    Agreed … now that the scapegoats have been butchered!
    Let’s forget the real culprits be it Muslim or Christian.
    How shallow 😀

  2. avatar Miss Indo 07 says:

    amran :

    Me, the Parigi People, the familiy of Poso Peoples.
    Said “Goodbye and may godbless for you, Tibo cs!
    for my families on Poso, Let us forget all of th conflict and life peace together.

    –> as if forget it and let the real culprits live happily ever after?

    Hassan:

    1st of all Tibo and co. could be innocent and they also could be guilty. we don’t know the truth. how about if they did murder all those people?? so don’t get too excited about something we don’t know about.

    —> if then, they are proved as not guilty, can u bring them back to life Hassan?

  3. avatar Molisan Tono says:

    guys, please… respect to the dead. this is holy ground for us now.

  4. avatar SA says:

    As far as i can say regards to this cases of Three ordinary people, I am very concerned about the Law System in Indonesia.

    The law system in Indonesia is fine but the people who run the system are DIRTY. Why can Government give them a second chance before they make decision to shoot them? They are human like you and me, dont treat them like animals.

    I think the way the Indo Gov doing is inhumane and very cruel.

    SBY where is your Heart and Love ?????

  5. avatar Boyke says:

    Excuse me, but if I remember correctly they have exhausted all of their legal options. They have been given their second chance, and more.

    Just curious, do you think the government should cancel the death penalty for Amrozy Cs. as well? Do you think the court made unjust decision in this case? Or the investigation was tweaked by the police?

    Because I personally don’t think so. I could accept THAT decision, so I must accept THIS decision. If we believe the system is dirty than we should not accept THAT decision, and logically it follows: we should not accept ALL decisions made by Indonesian court of law.

    Or if you think that in general the system in general works, but this particular court is dirty, please show the evidence. I read a press report somewhere mentioning that the judges were intimidated during the trial. But why as far as I know this report has not been shown to “Mahkamah Konstitusi” or “Komisi Yudisial”. Please show us something more than hearsay because I’m ready to condemn this trial too when there’s enough prove.

    Those who think that this particular court is dirty, should have worked harder long BEFORE the verdict came. The law process started in 2000 mind you. Gus Dur could have tried to do something about this when he was still in power. Did he try?

  6. avatar Miss Indo 07 says:

    Oh yes Gus Dur tried, but one good person between hundreds stronger evils, what could he do?

  7. avatar Molisan Tono says:

    Our government, in this case our president SBY has no “enough” power to release these men from trial because of Moslem parties, their agenda is to put more control on government. This, has cause SBY his legit and supreme authority as president. He is just puppet for puppeters in Moslem party.

    Look what happen with Tibo Cs. they must, and had to be put out of their life as soon as possible for killed hundreds; even more, thousands souls in Poso which majority is Moslems… and now, Amrozi Cs, there’s always lack of evidence to put them on death row because they are Moslem. So they need proper trial to find whether they are guilty or not for causing hundred of souls’ death.

    My opinion, please step aside any religious agenda, just simply put the justice in the middle of fair trial.

  8. avatar Boyke says:

    I totally agree with you, we should simply put justice in the middle of fair trial. Hence, there should be no intervention from the President (remember Trias Politica), not too mention foreign governments. Similarly there should be no intervention from the press, political parties, or other parties outside the judiciary institution.

    The system may or may not be dirty. The fact remain: it’s not perfect but this is the only system we’ve got. Even bung Hatta and bung Karno fought the system from the inside when they were indicted in 1920s. Read Bung Hatta’s memoir, he didn’t even consider fighting for freedom outside the legal boundary, although he knew the system was created by his enemy. A less apreciated fact in todays’ world full of glorification for martyrs.

    So if you think the sytem is dirty, you should fight from the inside. The only possible thing to do is to beat them in their own game. You know that there are cases when dirty judges and prosecutors were indicted themselves providing enough evidence present. We’re not living under Orde Baru anymore.

    A pity that law knows no heart nor love. They can only see facts. Hard facts. Legum servi sumus ut liberi esse possimus. [This is my last comment]

  9. avatar SA says:

    I definitely agree with you Molison, SBY has No Power at all as far as I can see, He is Power is being Control of the Moslem Party, feel so ashamed.

    Anyway I am not saying that the System is Dirty but The Person who running the system are DIRTY.

  10. avatar Mizzy says:

    Indonesia is a great country, they people at the Department are an as*h*le, sorry for my rude language I just cant stand it anymore. How come SBY and others military officer are affraid of F****** FPI??? Who the hell are they? but for sure they come from HELL!!!!!

  11. avatar Marsel says:

    For Tibo Cs:
    If you guys were guilty, may God have Mercy on you.
    If not, blessed be you, for you’ve been the “real” armies of God.
    For everyone:
    Let’s lessen NATO, no point debating about this here. Only few people read this website (most of us, Indonesian, even never use computer).
    Let’s apprecite the work of Tibo Cs. Hopefully, what they did would move our hands. To those who have power and the brave heart, please continue and reveal the truth FOR INDONESIA.
    For those who not, there are still so many unjustice and people sorrow because of it. Stand out and speak, do what we can do to help them (not just satisfying our necesities to debate and discuss).
    For Sulawesi, be at peace! Let nobody provoke you no more.
    PEACE for CHRISTIAN and MOSLEM.

  12. avatar Molisan Tono says:

    Today I received an email from a friend regarding their last words… it’s really touching what Dominggus say on his last breath after being shot.

    He was crying out “Father, please forgive them”

    this 3 beloved brother has shed their bloods for something most people believe they were convicted for unfair trial.

    I can’t say much, but these guys, are martyrs… I salute thee. May God bless you all.

  13. avatar bravo says:

    I hope that all the guys behind the death of Tibo Cs, will be aware that God is justice, and God will do his justice to unjust one, hei, all of you who stated and agreed to this death statement, be sure that God is just..be sure and ask your heart before you making your comment.

    Can’t you all see that the supreme court has never proved that Tibo Cs guilty, so why they were punished to death, can’t you imagine if that’s happen to you guys.

  14. avatar Molisan Tono says:

    i wonder if they could…

  15. avatar abjev says:

    Bloody Muslims, see what youv’e done.

  16. avatar Czeslaw says:

    Hello everybody!
    Peace of God All mighty be upon us all Christians.
    I didn’t exclude any Muslims from my blessing, they have excluded them selves from all humanity. The Moon god worshipers (Muslims) are out of control. All other people of all other religions are truly remarkably calm and wait with awe to new Muslim developments.
    Definitively, Islam still lives in the stone age and is doing all it can, to pull all of us down to the crop ditch with them, if we will let them do it. I have written to the Embassy of Indonesia couple of months ago and I inquire about the Tibo and his friends case. Since I am not Muslim, I didn’t deserve to be treated like a human, and I didn’t get an answer, nothing. But thanks God, my throat was not slit, for violating Islam law and inquire abut this or that. ooohhh!
    I believe if we all the rest – non Muslims will not put stop to this Islamic crop, we will be doomed by some fricken shira law of stone age. So far, Muslims bring to the world table crude oil and Islamic terror.
    Islam is worthless, useless egoistic political entity trying to cover it doomsday ambition under the “prophet mohammed” stuff. If the entity, like Islam, have a political and military ambition, that excludes the entity from the religious group of activities.

    It is obvious, that if you look from even modern history point of view, Islam is nothing more than a hybrid of the Nazi and Communism ideology.

    I have pictures of Muslims in Iran and Palestine and Lebanon and Syria saluting in the old Nazi manner lifting their hand up, in the “Zeig Hail” to Adolf Hitler, or their Mohammed, of which there is no difference.

    I just hope that we non Muslims will wake up and put a stop in a violent way the Muslim invasion of our lives. I said, yes Violent, for I do not see other possibility of talking with some fricken Muslim who just is looking for possibility to cut my throat after I turn m back. I am tired of the abuse others are taking in the name of their Allah.

    Look here I paste statement of attorney general of Indonesia, read and see how stupid and corrupted this bustard is: … I contacted attorney general Abdul Rahman Saleh, but to no avail. He claims that the execution of the men would violate Islamic principles.

    It is against Islam. Within Islam, if there is still doubt, then it mustn”t be done.
    (Itu melanggar Islam. Dalam Islam, kalau masih ragu-ragu, jangan dilakukan.)

    So, basically you non-Islamic people in Indonesia, even if there is a shadow of the doubt of your innocence, or you would be sent to for some thing, you are doomed!!! can’t you see it!!! Wake up!!! you still will be killed, because of the Islamic law.

    Now prove me wrong that slam is mental disorder of stone age minds living today in Indonesia.

    I am happy to live in European country. I hope that Muslims and Islam will not prevail in my country. I have seen enough of communism and Nazi, and I do not want to see hybrid of this mental virus spread in my country.

    Fabianus Tibo, Dominggus Da Silva and Marianus Riwu you guys are in my heart, and always will be. I hope that Muslims will choke to death by spilling your blood. From now on, I will play Islamic hate game, eye for eye, tooth for tooth. I hope something big will start out of it. I am ready, I have friends in Europa, USA, Canada and Australia who are ready for the big one. So, Muslims, lets have a stone age and 21 century party together! I believe that you Muslims deserved what is coming to you!!

  17. avatar Marsel says:

    Dear Czeslaw,
    You wrote an extreme statement about Islam and unless you have studied Islam very deep, I can say that you put an unjustified statement.
    I am sorry if you experience bad things with respect to nazi things, but that are not a references to say that Islam is mental disorder.

    “I have pictures of Muslims in Iran and Palestine and Lebanon and Syria saluting in the old Nazi manner lifting their hand up, in the “Zeig Hail” to Adolf Hitler, or their Mohammed, of which there is no difference.”

    Poor people,they are lacking of educations.

    “So, basically you non-Islamic people in Indonesia, even if there is a shadow of the doubt of your innocence, or you would be sent to for some thing, you are doomed!!! can’t you see it!!! Wake up!!! you still will be killed, because of the Islamic law. “

    Thanks for the encouragement :),but, We, here are not just sit and watch the unjustice happened, especially in terms of discriminations against faith.

    “I am happy to live in European country. I hope that Muslims and Islam will not prevail in my country. I have seen enough of communism and Nazi, and I do not want to see hybrid of this mental virus spread in my country. “

    Think about if Islam people were the minority in your country and the majority in your country have the same thought as yours. Will you do something against Islam likewise Nazi did against Jewish in the past?

    “From now on, I will play Islamic hate game, eye for eye, tooth for tooth. I hope something big will start out of it. I am ready, I have friends in Europa, USA, Canada and Australia who are ready for the big one. So, Muslims, lets have a stone age and 21 century party together! I believe that you Muslims deserved what is coming to you!! “

    I think, you wrote this comment straighly after you read this news (hope I am correct), so you just emotionally write all those come to your mind.
    Please think again about..will you repeat the Holy War?

    There are a lot of sources where you obtain more information about Tibo Cs execution and Poso riot. There are many probabilities for what behind this issue. So please dont think that because Tibo Cs are Christian, then Islam people killed them.

    For everybody (especially Moeslim friends), please dont get too “hot” with our fellow’s (Czeslaw) comment, he just dont know.

    GBU all

  18. avatar Czeslaw says:

    Hello Marcel, and thank for your point of view.
    You are right that the people in Palestine, Syria etc., are uneducated. There is a purpose to keep these poor souls uneducated and desperate. Same was in communist satellites countries like Poland, Czechoslovakia, Hungary, Ukraina, Kazakstan, Uzbekistan, etc..

    Then communists, now Islamist do keep some population blind and uneducated, because these chaotic masses are easy to use. This system of mas control was master by Nazi and communists, I thought, till I see how political body of Islam is keeping poor Syrians, Lebanese, Palestinians, Yemeni, Libyans, etc., in same conditions. It is ease to get suicide victims out of uneducated and poor people.

    Islam, like communism and nazis is doing this same things all over. Nat far from nazism Jude genocide, was forwarded by Turkish Islamist genocide of 1915-1923 where Islamist murdered about 2,000,000 million of Ormians for religious reasons. It can not be denied, it is a historical fact! Read yesterday AP article about Turkish Islamist trying to down play this genocide to a “civil unrest”. Marcel, civil unrest and 2,000,000 people murdered? How this make sense? Who but an insane moron, would said such a thing? Islamist will!!!

    Marcel, I do study religions of the world for more than a decade. I look at many religions all across the time spectrum, and across the globe. All combined religions of all humanity times, did not kill as many people as Islamists did in last 100 years. I am not prejudice against ANY religion.

    However, I do not count Islam as religion, due to the open fact, that Islam is seeking political domination using controlled military means, suicide acts, violence against non Muslim people. Islam is an organized mafia and crime syndicate. All the mullah at the top a raking fortunes on the dead bodies of suicide victims. Children and women are sold in Muslim countries as I am writing these words. Women under Islamic control are being raped and hanged or stoned do death because their word do not count. The criminal Muslim man who rape a Muslim woman walks free, and women is accused for adultery by being raped, when she is raped. No one can deny it, for I red about it, and I talked with refugees who escaped Islamic oppressions.

    Look at Darfur today, another genocide in process right front of our eyes! Do you see a Hindu, Buddhist, Catholics, Shinto followers who are murdering innocent people there, or again like always, Islamist are doing their own thing they were doing since they started worshiping Moon god Allah in the stone age.

    If Islam would have a traces of any kind or type of religion in it, it would evolved beyond the “totemic period” of religions which ended about 2,000 years ago. Islam based on ancient nomadic Arabic traditions, not religions believes, still worship the Moon god Allah, which is emblem-ed in the meteor stone at Mecca where all Muslims go to this stone to worship it.

    I was told by Persian refugees that Islamists hate dogs for dogs torn a part dead body of Mohamed. Is that truth? Also, he was epileptic, and had a seizures, which primitive Arabs though it was communications with Allah. Persia too, fell victim to Islamic sword several hundred years ago.

    Marcel, if you have a chance and possibility read conquer of Spain by Muslims. Spanish people were boiled a live in hot oils, when they refused to convert to Islam. Marcel, why all terrorist are Islamists? Think for a moment…

    Tibo and his companions just were lucky that their case was lighted by some media. Hundred of thousand in Darfur share their faith, and now ones blink an eye for them, for people are starting to be terrified by Islamic terror, violence and mas murders. This is how history will remember Islam, as the most bloody political and crime organization ever concived. Islam will whimper like most violent religions before it, at the price of more millions of people who will be slaughtered by Islamic sword.

    peace be with you Marcel…peace be with Tibo and his companions. They are in our hearts here in Poland and all Europe.

  19. avatar Marsel says:

    Peace also be with you Czeslaw,and all of the human being.
    Czeslaw, all the evidences you gave are subjected to the political matters.

    “Nat far from nazism Jude genocide, was forwarded by Turkish Islamist genocide of 1915-1923 where Islamist murdered about 2,000,000 million of Ormians for religious reasons”

    Is it about Armenians genocide? In my opinion it’s more likely a revenge matter than religious matters.
    And for Darfur, most of them are moeslims. (and it’s more clear that it’s a political issue)

    “Look at Darfur today, another genocide in process right front of our eyes! Do you see a Hindu, Buddhist, Catholics, Shinto followers who are murdering innocent people there, or again like always, Islamist are doing their own thing they were doing since they started worshiping Moon god Allah in the stone age.”

    Did you ever realize that many people considered Israel and America as “terrorist”? It seems unlogical, but many innocent people die because of them. Will you say it’s because most of Jews and Christian are killers?

    “Marcel, if you have a chance and possibility read conquer of Spain by Muslims. Spanish people were boiled a live in hot oils, when they refused to convert to Islam.”

    It’s not a good evidence since Spanish, Holland, Portugese, and most of the countries around you did the same cruel things to Indonesia, and many other countries when they conquer us. If you had chance, read about Indonesian’s fight against the imperior.

    I cannot change your perception about Islam. But please, let no hatred stay in your heart because, it’s the root of all the genocide and war.

    Even though you have studied many other religions, please remember one of your religion’s basic principle, love. Even, love your enemy.

    And, Let’s stand out and help those poor people.

  20. avatar Jordy says:

    The death penalty is nothing more than killing people, who kill people to show its wrong to kill people! This world is sick!

  21. avatar Mandala says:

    I just realize that how hard it is to find about what Tibo has done, all Indo media only says they’re involved in Poso killing. And for indo people living abroad like me, all those news make me think that poor Tibo need to be pardoned, because I don’t know the scale of the killing. After searching here and there, and it is very hard to find more independent fact about the killing, it was actually massive MANSLAUGHTER, which never been found in any big headline in Indo major media. may be in the range of 75 to 200 people beheaded, all in Pesantren Walisongo. I really angry with media, with power that control major media, and with this forum, which actually simply forget about the killing it self, and forces the fact that Tibo executions is so called ‘HAM’ violation. I just learned how the power can cover this important fact, and even give the impression that they can be pardoned, and the actor behind them need to be prosecuted. If you all think not Tibo who has got a hand on those massive manslaughter, say if Indo army doing that, what logic behind that?? it must be very special army with specific belive.

    So I think the discussion should start from:
    1. Has tibo done all those killing? if your answer is no, then give possible option of killer (not just pointed to ‘poor’ Tibo) and forget about death penalty law, if yes or you don’t have any other logical killer then …
    2. Does the death penalty appropriate for those who kill hundreds? if you give no answer then, may be you can come to UK, where one doctor kills lot of old people and only got life sentence. China and US gives the biggest death sentences every year.

    MISS INDO 07 -> But just one thing, man doesn’t have rights to kill, no matter what, so this country sucks. –> you cannot come to Singapore, China, and US, as they ‘suck’ either.

    After learned all the fact objectively, I’m sure you will undestand it’s not about retaliation of the Muslim, or about the cruelty of death penalty.

    Next time I’ll have something to say to Czeslaw, seems to be very challenging…

  22. avatar Czeslaw says:

    No one will give back lives to Mr Tibo and his companions, because of Islam. No one will give back about 2,000,000 millions of lives to murdered Armenians, because of Islam. No one will give back lives of those murdered at Darfur, because of Islam. No one will give back lives of those in Spain who were boiled in boiling oils, because of Islam. No one will give lives back of those killed by jihads terror, because of Islam. So, Mr (name not shown here), enjoy the greatness of your Islam, as you know it. Nothing have happened. We never met.

    Very recently, from your neighboring country, Philippines. Islamic fighters ambushed a peace worker in the south Mindanao province. They skinned him, carved his skin of his body, then cut his head off. Mr. (name not shown here), Allah (Islam) is great, isn’t he/it?

    The above, is a part of 5 pages I have written to Indonesian embassy here in Poland. Reading most of the above column comments, not a single one person is 100% convinced of Mr Tibo and his companions guilt. There is no single evidence in 100% that Mr. Tibo and his companions have actually committed any crimes. But as Indonesian attorney general Saleh, said, “…these man (Mr Tibo and his companions) have to be executed, or it will violate Islamic principals…” I paraphrased his comment here. So, there is nothing in Indonesia about democracy, for how democracy can exist in Islamic country? Also, it proves non existence of judiciary system in the Muslim controlled country. More or less is a nazi-communism hybrid social virus which Indonesia is infected with. The Bali master mind terrorism and bomber was released from jail, because he is a Muslim. Even thought he is the main player in these Bali terrorist attacks. It is so bright and visible evidence that Indonesia is supporting and protecting Islamic terrorists.

    If non Islam person will defend him self against attack by Islamic mob, and will kill in self defense, he will end up like Mr Tibo and his companions. So, Indonesian non-Islamic person do not have rights in Indonesia. But if we turn the table around, Muslim will be okay, because he was defending himself.

    Someone above said, that Israel is a terrorist. First, let me say, I am not Jew. Well, let try this. Let remove Islam from Palestine, Pakistan, Lebanon, Iran, Iraq, Saudi, Jordan and Yemen for the next 50 years as a trial period, and see how many terrorists will be there left in the area, or in the world for that matter.

    Also, here is a freebie for die hard Muslims: compare the expansion of two legends in the Muslim world: 1. The way the Muhammed legend was created and grew. 2. And the way of the Bab, (Arabic meaning, The Way, or The Gate) and the way his legend was created and grew up. Bab was for real. He was murdered by Islamist mullahs and ayatollahs in the late 1890s..

    I believe that Bab had much more merit to the peace and love and understanding that Muhammed ever did, if he did at all. That is why Islamic mullahs/ayatollahs murdered him. My believe and many other religious scholars is, that if Bab will not be murdered, he and his Islamic teachings would surpass domination of the Islamic world. That meant the end to the mullahs and ayatollahs reigns. Good luck on the studies of these two interesting legends. Also, there are scholars who doubt Muhammed existence, because there were many Muhammed’s living there and then. And the problem is to put the right person to the right events in the right time. More or less, koran is trying to mold something together. I am not sure it worked the way it was intended.

    Fabianus Tibo, Dominggus Da Silva and Marianus Riwu are due to be executed on either the night of Thursday the 21st, or the morning of the 22nd”¦.

    Mr. Tibo, Mr. Da Silva, and Mr. Riwu. Now you are in the grace and presence of the God Almighty, not Allah the Moon god. Peace be with you and your families, and Indonesian free people for whom you stood up, you represented. You are brave and courageous men, which can not be said about any Muslim living today in Indonesia.

    Your personal sacrifice will never be forgotten by the free people around the world. We Polish people love you and pray for you all. Christ didn’t died in vain, so didn’t you. The murder committed by Indonesian Islamic regime, proves that Islam can not coexist with others, and can not be present without murders and terrorism.

    Your deaths proved that the hybrid of Nazism and Communism, the Islamic virus, is mental disorder, and need to be removed from the earth. And you Muslims do not twist my words, I do not say kill Muslims, for it will prove that I’ve got the Islamic mental disorder my self. Eliminate Islam without killing people, is the solution, if it can be done.

  23. avatar Mandala says:

    Look at to the word that you chose, to describe how innocent Tibo is, and without any other clue who kills hundreds people (which is real crime). Czeslaw and most ‘highly educated intellectual’ can really twist the fact of killing with humanist sentences, that everybody can fell empathy to the manslaughter. Suppose not them whose done the killing, no one propose the theory, because basically the justice is already found them as killer. The fact that they need to find intellectual actor behind them is another story, for me even if you killed people (HUNDREDS of them) by order of another man, you are guilty.

    I just want to point out how people can be stirred by pers and by so called humanist words, and forget about the killing it self. This is always happen if you rich and in power, just like western world, you can make any impression you want, and depict Islam as very bad thing, Arab as the most cruel human being. This propaganda crafted nicely not only in western people, but also in Muslim world it self, and I believe that is the real trigger of the hatred. If you push and push poor people, and you get all the credit, at some point they will react. Specifically I also wrote something about Danish comic case, which you intentionally do something offensive, and later on telling us how to react if someone offending us, very sad quote : ‘You not only keep kicking us, but also telling us How to REACT after being kicked’

    hypotetically, if the border of coutry is exist, and no one can across to the other side, who come to whom?

  24. avatar Czeslaw says:

    Hello Mandala: Here is short part from my letter to Indonesian embassy, here in Poland

    Answer: President (former) of Indonesia is an Islamic cleric. Attorney General Saleh, basis his “law” decision based on Islamic principals. And you Mr (…) are saying that Indonesia is not an Islamic state? What is wrong with Islam, that you are trying to cover it up?

    Mr. (…), I have no doubt in my mind, if I would try to get a conversation like this with any one in Indonesia, Saudi, Syria, Pakistan, Palestine, Iraq, Iran, etc.. You will be one of the people with the panties on your head, covering your identity, and you would participate in my beheading, yelling Allah is great, when my head will be cut off and separated from my body. I never doubt it for a minute. This is how Islam is seen from the other side. Islam, is the hybrid of Nazism and Communism. That is why it need to be eliminated because it is to dangerous to all human beings on this little earth, not because I have some personal reservations against it.

    Mandala, there is no 100% sure evidence of Mr Tibo, Mr. Riwu, and Mr DeSilva to be involved in a single crime act of killing. There is no single victim named, who was killed by Mr. Tibo, Mr. Riwu, or Mr DeSilva. So, where is the crime? There is one actually, if you look closer at the case. Neither Mr. Tibo, Mr. Riwu nor Mr. DeSilva, are Muslims. In Indonesia, it seems to be a crime.

    So, they got shot for it. Please be honest to your self, if a Muslim can be honest to him self, and check on the statement of your attorney general Saleh, who stated that, “…not executing these man will violate Islamic principals…” Basically what Saleh is saying, and letting all Indonesian people to know, that there is no judiciary system in Indonesia in place, never was, and never will be, as long as Islamic regime will stay in power in Indonesia.

    The Islamic crop in Indonesia is a poor copy of what was happening in communist satellite countries in Eastern Europa. The elections are faked. Before you vote, the winner of communist regime, or Islamic regime in Indonesia is already chosen. In Poland, it was always appointee of Moscow, not appointees of Polish people. In Indonesia, is Islamic appointee, not a person who was voted and elected by Indonesian people. Same was in Nazi Germany. That is why I say, that Islam is nazi-communism hybrid virus, for it resemble nazi and communism ideology under one banner, the Moon god banner.

    If your mental status do not recognizes that you are ruled by Islamic regime in Indonesia, that means you are part of the regime, or are mentally handicapped, or a victim of it. One of the three holds the truth about you and who you are, Mandala. If the second holds the truth about you, get your self some Prozac pill to lessen your frustrations.

    Mandala, honesty have noting to do with religious believes or education. Muslims don’t understand it, do not accept it. That why Islam became what it is today, a bloody political regime, and terror organization. Indonesia is divided into two communities: Muslims and the victims of Islam. Attorney General Saleh, vs Mr. Tibo, Mr. Riwu and Mr. DeSilva is bright prove of this divisions.

  25. avatar Mandala says:

    Hi Czeslaw, It’s nice to have instant response 🙂

    So basically when I ask on my previous post about where the discussion should start, you choose Tibo and the gang is innocent? I will put that assumption as you not really clear your position whether Tibo is innocent, or Tibo is receive command from another powerful people to do the killings (as most people defended). Please please look for the fact, not from Hidayatullah which claims 200 peopple beheaded, but may be more reliable and independent source, where you can find at least 75 innocent beheaded. All of them part of Muslim school of Walisongo in Poso.

    After looking to the evidence of manslaughter (hope you not denied that only Muslim imagination) not many groups in Poso, and it is very illogical if you propose another Muslim groups doing that in purpose and makes Tibo as innocent scapegoat. So we can narrow down the suspect. It is very easy for us in here to draw the line and it much easier for authority to do some crime investigation for such massive case. Come on, they are not idiot police, although we messed up another small cases, but I belive this such magnitude they will carry proper investigation.

    The doubt, that whoever said to be considered, is actor behind them, who actually design the manslaughter, and planned it. Ofcourse i will agree 100% to find them, and it is fact as well Tibo has given 16 names which require a follow up, but like I said before, if you’re on a group which has got an order to kill 200 people, and you’ve done it, you will be prosecuted as killer, and the commander is another story. It willl be another investigation, but the real hand killer is not innocent. That is common sense.

    Indonesia will not follow Islam rule as a whole, that’s political matter, one group try to enforced it, and another choose not, and that happen in several district where Islamic rule enforced in full, but that still small portion of Indonesia. We have more and more proper election, and it is still long way to reach balance and idealistic state.

    Abdul rahman saleh said : “It is against Islam (to do execution in haste). Within Islam, if there is still doubt, then it mustn’t be done” to answer the question : Why the execution has been delayed all this time?. Please don’t be lost in translation as Indonesian people is really bad in grammar, they never use complete sentence.
    I agree that this attorney should not relate Islam law with execution, as the execution and whole court trial held with General law (derived from Dutch law). And this general law, or even any common sense (positive) law is enough to justify death sentence for this massacre. The reason he state that is, in my believe, because all the victims are Islam, and so the trial is not only them against the victim’s families, but actually them with Muslim community as a whole.

    The thing that still useless if we continue this, is the fct that you still cannot understand the magnitude of killing it self, you still point out that the killing is never exist, and only our hallucination, and those 75-200 people whose their blood fill the river in Poso, is never been a victim. You never ever propose, if not them, then who’s done all those massacre. Because once you accept the fact of killing, you will also can easily understand no one else apart from them whose done it all (altough this is my prejudice from long long distance, but also result of 6 years local investigation).

  26. avatar Czeslaw says:

    To my Indonesian friends. I did what one person could do, to let the small world know about the Islamic abuse of non-Islamic faiths in Indonesia. I have high regards for Mr Tibo, Mr. DeSilva and Mr Riwu and their families and their friends. I just pray, that one day, Islam follower will take the blinds off – of his hate and racial/religious prejudice. Peace to all Peace loving people down there in Indonesia! Here, below is what I did:

    Ministry Of Foreign Affairs Warszawa (Warsaw-Poland) December 4th 2006
    Mr. Bogdan Borusiewicz, Marshall of the Senate of Commonwealth of Poland

    In answering to the Senator Mr. Adam Biela, during 21st session of the Sejm (Senate) of Commonwealth of Poland, on date November 9th of 2006 (letter BPS/DSK-043-727/06 dated November 16th 2006 in the matter of violation of human rights in Indonesia against citizens of Christian faith, I am forwarding the following information:

    Executed by a firing squads in September 2006 in Indonesia believers of Catholic faith (Fabianus Tibo, Dominggus DeSilva, Marianus Riwu), were in 2001 sentenced in lawful way by a court to a death penalty for enticing religious violence which led in 2000 to massacre of 70 mUSLIMS, in the town of Poso. In an official statement by vice president of the Republic of Indonesia Jussuf Kalla that Indonesian legal government denied that the sentence and execution had any religious character. However, in the opinions of many human rights organizations, the process was not honest, and that the court issued the sentences under the pressure of those present in the court room, representatives of Muslim organizations.

    Poland, in cooperation with EU countries to the last moment, persuade to halt the executions of sentenced people, with the Indonesian government, and were requesting a moratorium (postponement) on the executions of the death sentences. On July 3rd, 2006 UE via the presidency of Finland, to vice president S.B. Yidhoyono to use the clemency, on the meeting of the heads of diplomatic outposts in Jakarta on September 19th 2006 also with Polish Ambassador in Indonesia present, and tried the last try to influence the highest government levels of Indonesia, via immediate phone call of the President of Finland to the President S.B. Yidhoyono, and sent a join letter of the UE Ambassadors accredited in Indonesia.

    After the execution, UE directed to the hands of the President of Indonesian Republic a Protest Note expressing deep outcry caused by Indonesian government bias stand.

    Polish government participated and supported EU, and stressed the barbaric and unhuman character of the death sentence, and joined Unions appeal about elimination of death penalty.
    The end…

  27. avatar Robert V Perez says:

    Why did President Suharto or his local government not controlled of the said brutal tragedy in POSO during his time and the life of the innocent and even of the new born child unescape from the hands of those killers?

  28. avatar Czeslaw says:

    Hi Robert:

    In islamic countries, the judiciary branch or religious led governments is protective of own interests and own Muslim people.
    The inter-religious freedom exists to some degree (very marginal) in Indonesia. But that is the exclusion from the other islamic countries. Try to travel as a tourist to Saudi, Afghanistan or Pakistan and have Bible in the open.

    Islam is still struggling with its own internal divide problems. Majority, I don’t know the exact percentage, of Muslims never read koran entirely. In the Arab controlled Muslim countries huge majority of Muslims can’t read or write. So, they never read koran.

    Also, if you look at the koran it self, it brings more questions than answers, of its originality, and dates of its first appearance 2-3 centuries after the death of Mr. Mohammed. This fact, is covered/hidden with “secrecy” from the common MUSLIMS. It seems, that there is very little, if any, direct connection between koran and Mr. Mohammed. There is no link in any form, between the oldest version of koran, and any word of Mr. Mohammed supposed to write.

    My Persian neighbors tell me, that Mr. Mohamed suffered from epilepsy, which was not understood in the Arab countries at those times. Each time he had epileptic seizures, others from outside who watched it, translated it as the “visions” from god.

    No historical-factual link exists between Mr. Muhammed and the koran.

    Whenever people will follow koran, there will continue to be a blood bath.

  29. avatar Warfreak says:

    Good Afternoon.

    I agree to the comment of Czeslaw. I have lived almost 10 muslim countries already, but those days sucks. I’m living in a commuinty with muslims before, but I left he area. My neighbor sucks. Almost everyday there’s a blood bath, everytime you walk outside your house, you may end up walking in a crossfire between Muslims bandits and go’vt. forces, in 1 week span o time, Muslims terrorist bombed our city 4 times. Damn you people with mental disorder. May God strike His wrath upon you.
    I was a Muslim before, But I chose to be converted. I was a Muslim for almost 45 years, but I never find what I seek (peace within myself and answers to my faith). I have more questions then than finding an answer. I have wasted almost 45 years of my life in a DOOMS DAY faith. I’m glad I have awakened in my nightmare.

  30. avatar Czeslaw says:

    Hello Warfreak!
    Welcome to the world of open mind and and intellectual prosperity.
    I feel bad for the Muslim people. Especially those who were brain washed to blow them selves up for the cause of this or that. Then snake who bites his own tail is nervous and lost control of its own faculty.

    I think that Muslim/Islam hate toward others, blinded the reality that they are still living in the dark ages of the 6-7 century.

    I don’t understand why the “leaders” of Islam on purpose are keeping MUSLIMS in the caves of their own doom. Thinking about it a great deal of time.

    Islam today is all like in communist Russia, N. Korea and China. It is all about control over uneducated masses, and financial gains of the corrupted broken off leadership of the donkey drivers.

    Peace to all those who are awake and well, and love the Lord!

    Peace to you Warfreak as well. . .

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