Atheism

Sep 7th, 2006, in News & Issues, by Patung

View the original article here.

21 Comments on “Atheism”

Indcoup Says:
September 7th, 2006 at 4:47 pm
Great work.

They may make the law but implementation is another matter. What’s going on in Malaysia with the Lina Joy case is very interesting as well.

Cheers.
Tony Says:
September 7th, 2006 at 6:44 pm
“The regulations against the insulting of religious beliefs, as well as those against the insulting of the “greatness” of God”

So, God the Almighty needs to be protected by the (human) Law….
Hassan Says:
September 7th, 2006 at 7:38 pm
Well, the pancasila, our ideology, clearly stated “the belief in The One True God (Ketuhanan Yang Maha Esa)”. So, basically atheism is against our ideology, whether we like it or not.
Ali Says:
September 8th, 2006 at 8:47 am
I think the first principle in Pancasila should be interpreted as an acknowledgment that our nation believes in God.
However, it doesn’t mean that all her citizens must also follow this.

USA also has the almost identical principle in her “In God we trust”, however USA cannot force all her citizens to trust God.

Faith is not something that can be enforced. Obedience can be enforced, but obedience is definitely different from faith.
I can deny the existence of God but still obey all the religious law simply because I don’t want to be expelled from my society.
The law can force people to adopt a religion and even to perform religious rituals piously, but all these cannot guarantee that there is faith in one’s heart.
And, I think God prefers a simple man with faith than a holy man without faith.
Tony Says:
September 8th, 2006 at 9:05 am
Being against the ideology is not equivalent of being against the law. What if, sometime in my life I change my mind and turn into atheism or agnosticism? Am I still protected by the law? Am I still supposed to be an Indonesia citizen? Am I supposed the emigrate?
Andrew Says:
September 8th, 2006 at 10:40 pm
Indonesia should focus on more immediate issues at hand – and yes, there are TONS of them.

Man’s relationship with God should be left at the individual’s discretion, and not be interfered with.
Fanglong Says:
September 9th, 2006 at 7:27 pm
Well said, Andrew : “Man’s relationship with God should be left at the individual’s discretion, and not be interfered with.”

There are already so many topics to bother people.
Too many reasons to punish them.
I’m afraid — no bettering in sight !

“Ketuhanan” (“divinity”) can be the “philosopher’s God” ?
What about Buddhists ? They think God’s a mere concept in deluded mind ?

And “agama Buddha” is welcome in Pancasila, isn’t it ?
Fanglong Says:
September 10th, 2006 at 4:21 pm
And what about Balinese “polytheism” ? Even if the TrimurtI be subsumed by the Sun god…
Hassan Says:
September 13th, 2006 at 9:09 pm
Ali, Indonesia is not the U.S. do you want Indonesia to be like the U.S.? whooo boy, are we in for a ride if we do.

stop immitating the U.S. in everything we do. the U.S. is not such a great example to follow.
Josef Says:
September 15th, 2006 at 3:08 pm
Why is it not?
Hassan Says:
September 15th, 2006 at 4:53 pm
well lets see, one of the highest murder rates in the world, one of the highest rape cases, drug abuse, broken homes in the world. the only country to have killed 140.000 people in a single swipe by using nukes. a country hated the most by the majority of the world’s population. and not to mention having a president with a brain the size of a pea.

all of that is enough to discourage any country wanting to immitate the u.s.’ ’success story’.
Andrew Says:
September 15th, 2006 at 11:17 pm
Simply can’t do a fair comparison of murder/rape/burglary/drug/domestic abuse/etc rates unless they are reported the same way.

A Lebanese friend of mine told me people don’t (read: very rarely) report rape and abuse cases there, and in the Middle East in general. A friend of his got raped in Mecca but did not report the incident.

Also, another example – the definition of “domestic abuse” itself is simply different in different parts of the world. In the US, verbally threatening your wife could book you into jail — I’m sure it’s not the case in many other countries. No doubt the rate is higher in the US.

On the other hand, even without looking at statistics, I agree that substance abuse is higher in the US than in the Middle East. Why? freedom has got to cost you something. So does control.

It is a matter of striking the right balance.

Having lived in both, I know what I want, and so does my Lebanese friend.
Ulf Says:
September 16th, 2006 at 3:49 am
To an orthodox Christian or Jew, a Moslem is just another atheist, for those do not believe in Islam. Should Muslims be prosecuted for atheism in the Western World?
Josef Says:
September 16th, 2006 at 4:32 am
If someone does not believe in God and is honest about it, they are punished. If they just say they do to not be punished than they are only lieing…and to lie in your heart is a sin anyway, to lie to god is just as insulting of the “greatness” of God, don’t you think? By forcing people to lie about their faith in god we insult the greatness of god more than the person without faith.
Humanism Says:
November 12th, 2006 at 11:18 am
Hmm.. doesn’t that mean Buddhists will all go to jail? Agama Buddha tidak mengakui KeTuhanan yg Maha Esa, agama ini lebih menganjurkan umatnya utk mengakui ilmu pengetahuan daripada Tuhan.
Soecamda Says:
November 14th, 2006 at 8:27 am
If we think critically, who is well enough to know God to be interpreted on that articles definition? If someone admit that, so he should firstly, convince and prove it to others, at least to the parliament before legitimating the law.

And about Buddhism, it is not accepting the definition of personal God, but it doesn’t mean that it doesn’t embrace any divinity. “Ketuhanan” means divinity, not merely “believe in one Godlike creature”. In Buddhism, we know Dzogchen, Mahamudra, Atiyoga which bring those adherent to the contemplation of singularness of awareness in a clear light. This is a prove that Buddhism has an aspect of Ketuhanan. The difference with any semitic religion is that Buddhism is not trying to dogmatized it, but penetrating it through a direct experience. Doesn’t it mean that Ketuhanan practiced in a more legitimate sense??
John Doe Says:
January 3rd, 2007 at 7:37 pm
Indonesia is a bigoted country, whether you like it or not. Pancasila is more like a rip-off of Christian and Islamic “holy” books, so no surprise there. But how can Indonesians call themselves “democratic” and “respectful of human rights” when they cannot — WILL not — respect the rights of others NOT to believe in some form of medieval fairytale and poppycock?

You know, a plausible solution comes to mind… send off the likes of Christian televangelists and Islamic clerics to the middle east so they can rip each other’s heads off, and then we make Indonesia a better place, with only atheists, Buddhists, Hindu, and various religious minorities..
Robert Says:
March 20th, 2007 at 6:34 pm
I don’t understand the fuss. Are the people in Indonesia standing on such shaky ground that their belief will topple that easily? And that it needs to be protected by these laws?
I can imagine that the religious and houses of worship need protection especially against mob-attacks.
But religion itself? It seems strange and arrogant that people put themselves above the Almighty to protect him. And that man-made books are necessary to protect religion, like Quran and Bible aren’t good enough anymore.
And if you are an atheist you must be rather stupid to mention to others, because you know you will be ratted on by others and go to jail.
Callum Says:
September 26th, 2008 at 4:55 pm
Does Santa Claus count as a “Ketuhanan”?
Shnakepup Says:
October 19th, 2008 at 11:33 pm
Uh oh. My Indonesian wife realized she was an atheist after immigrating to America. She can be pretty outspoken, too…hopefully this isn’t a problem if we ever visit her home country.
alonwae Says:
March 11th, 2010 at 1:59 pm
well, here in Indonesia, you will never see the truth if you are using the religion’s window it self. Because, what is happening is, politics, a not so smart politic’s tactics that using religion to get into a strategical position in government. It is a very democratic way, anyhow, to use the majority of uneducated people votes to bring you into the parliament and next to the government, and politicians here are realized that fact and use it as well, hehe, maybe i was wrong to say it as a not so smart tact, anyway. But, that is the way, why the article got it’s way through the constitution.

So, hell with the religions, they don’t care about it.