Schapelle Corby

Aug 25th, 2009, in IM Posts, by

View the original article here.


116 Comments on “Schapelle Corby”

Pages: « 1 [2] 3 4 »

  1. avatar Brother Mouzone says:
    August 27th, 2009 at 10:11 am

    I can’t help but feel that in 50 or so years – when all these substances are legalized, sanitized, taxed, and regulated worldwide – our children (or our children’s children) are going to look back at this “War on Drugs” business as a failed experiment and a pretty dark period of human history. (Sort of how we view Prohibition in the US)

  2. avatar Rob says:
    August 27th, 2009 at 12:29 pm

    @ Andy…

    Where does Indonesian Law say that it presumes guilt before innocence?

    Even in Indonesia where a confession is made, the confession itself does not prevent a trial from being held. This is because, ultimately, the court (the judge/judges) are the determiners of guilt and not the defendant or the public prosecutors.

    The idea that customs officials in Bali blew the case because they did not videotape the search is an interesting one. However, even if there is no tape this would not mean that the sworn testimony of those officials is any less valid about what transpired on that fateful day. In any event, crooked officials could easily set up a sting using videotape, couldn’t they?

    The other Australians that got “piss ant” sentences were not being tried for an attempt to smuggle 4.1kgs of wacky weed into a country that clearly offers up the death penalty for those caught trafficking drugs. Others, particularly SP, have made this point. These other Australians were also prepared to admit guilt as users / addicts and in essence got off with a conviction and time served. So, unless Corby is going to claim that the 4.1kgs was for personal use and that she is an addict and that the weed was hers, then these are pretty different scenarios.

    The sentence is harsh, at least, in my view. Others you will have noted disagree and do so strongly. A good debate on opinions of what constitutes justice and fairness is always a worthy exercise. Yes, there are terrorists and murders who have been handed lesser sentences in terms of time. This in and of itself does not indicate an anti-bule bias. If anything, and this is a point I have made numerous times (worthless / valueless as it is), is that Corby’s family and initial supporters ensured that the trial was very public and that any “shady” deals that might have been struck would never see the light of day.

    You talk about anti-bule bias, yet the judges in the trial were called monkeys and the others involved all manner of things. The over exposure of this sad and sordid tale is what did Corby in.

    Finally,

    Nothing like passing sentences based on your personal rather than legal judgement.

    , I agree.

  3. avatar ET says:
    August 27th, 2009 at 3:37 pm

    Brother Mouzone said

    I can’t help but feel that in 50 or so years – when all these substances are legalized, sanitized, taxed, and regulated worldwide – our children (or our children’s children) are going to look back at this “War on Drugs” business as a failed experiment and a pretty dark period of human history.

    I doubt this if it’s going the same way as tobacco does now. Whether one likes it or not, the clampdown on tobacco is working, less people smoke and those that still do see themselves more and more socially ostracized and confined to special rooms. I see no reason why other substances which pose health risks for users as well as others indirectly affected should make an exception.

  4. avatar Oigal says:
    August 27th, 2009 at 3:51 pm

    those that still do see themselves more and more socially ostracized and confined to special rooms. I see no reason why other substances which pose health risks for users as well as others indirectly affected should make an exception.

    Yup..Now we have stopped smoking on planes whats the chance we can make fat people buy two seats..

  5. avatar Rob says:
    August 27th, 2009 at 4:07 pm

    @ BM…

    Gotta say, with a bit of luck I would hope to live to see it go the other way. Although, sometimes the statistics are a little confusing. I read somewhere recently that young women in Australia were taking up the tobacco habit in increasingly large numbers. And, also that numbers in Asia were sky-rocketing.

    @ ET…

    Would the abuse of alcohol pose a health risk to others in a similar sense to, say, passive smoking? Just for the purposes of limiting or prohibiting its use as a danger to non-users.

    @ Oigal…

    I think this has been tried in Canada (?) and the courts said that airlines could not charge an obese person for the price of two seats (if I recall correctly – and I might not, been known to happen :D)

  6. avatar Sharan says:
    August 27th, 2009 at 6:26 pm

    semutz_imoetz, try watching THE SIMPSONS at prime time, sometimes is far better then the news.

    Shapelle is GUILTY

  7. avatar Suryo Perkoso says:
    August 27th, 2009 at 8:15 pm

    @Rob, in random order if you will kindly accomodate me:- I only suggested as a gesture of exclamation the term “bollocks”, I didn’t libel you as being a load of old bollocks, just that in my most ‘umble of opinions me ‘lud, that you may have been talking a load of old bollocks, there is a very subtle (some may say “seluk-beluk”) difference between the two ( like dealing with bloody Rumpole here). And yes, you should feel chastised – we invented the legal system and terminology as the world knows it yet you have breakfast with the english language, and you mock our legal system?

    In true GBP 650+VAT/hour form you neglect to mention your comments – you questioned my right to judge Corby, when she has already been judged and dare I say, found wanting – you also neatly turned my comments regarding “children being sorry for a week” into a superb defense contra-coup – obviously my use of the vernacular has created a little confusion here.

    As of course you are aware, in the UK – the Judge has the right to comment on previous convictions if they may have direct refernce to the case in question – Corby wasn’t convicted of “Wearing extremely cheap lipstick” was she? She was convicted of a narcotics related offense, therefore her previous ‘istry me lud may be taken into consideration.

    As to my opinion, it is of course just that – Corby is trash who almost certainly has offended in the past, The Australian police almost certaing did her up like a kipper figuring it was easier for Bali to do the job than them, she got a twenty year stretch (and if the tales about that prison are to be believed the she will get a 20cm stretch too), it could have been a load worse though, she could have got a bullet, or she could have been innocent.

    Also for what it is worth, a confession in the UK does not preclude a trial and a not guilty verdict, not unless it is a “dying declaration”……

    @ET, a lot of very expensive research would suggest that your comment regarding tobacco use may be flawed – the distribution may have changed, but the consumption is little reduced.

    @BM, what makes you think that hard narcotics are something new?

    Generally – I really abhor people that mess with drugs and think it’s clever – for sure I wouldn’t hit it off (well perhaps once) with Madrotter, we just completely differ on this. If he and his cronies wish to pursue their passion then do it where you won’t get shot and stop fricking whinging if you do get caught. Whilst alcohol abuse can cause the same issues as narcotic abuse, it is much reduced and in many circumstances it is legal. I just don’t see how much more enjoyable is a splif is compared to a nice drink in good company, particularly when the former gets you shot.

    @Rob – your closing address to the jury makes sense, what did Corby in was a falilure to respect the fact that she was on all probability guilty, and insulting the legal and the judges – guilty or not, contempt of the system won’t help anyone – I suppose what also did her in was she was as guilty as hell with a history longer than your arm, but who am I to judge?

    Can we shoot her now?

  8. avatar Ross says:
    August 27th, 2009 at 8:27 pm

    Interesting to read that the shrink involved was hired by Corby’s family. Not that any professional would allow his analysis to be impaired for such a reason, but one must be careful.
    That terr Libyan in Scotland just got off the hook thanks to a pinko Minister of Justice whose consultations with medics were rather selective, to say the least, turns out only one doc said the swine had just a few motnhs to live.
    I suspect that he’ll be trolloping around Tripoli in a year’s time, and would it not be distrubing if Corby suddenly became as sane as she ever was after getting back to Oz.

  9. avatar Rob says:
    August 27th, 2009 at 8:57 pm

    @ SP…

    Accommodated you are.

    Nope, was not about libel. Don’t think I said I felt defamed. Was not even offended, rather intrigued about how one argues along the lines of “this is my opinion and if you have a different one, then bollocks to the lot of you!” I do not recall even saying that your opinion was valueless or that you could not hold one. But, whatever.

    Nope, this is all pro bono my friend!

    Yes, on Corby’s previous convictions assuming that they are raised and relevant. There would be arguments, undoubtedly, as to the relevance and whether they would be prejudicial to a fair trial. As a matter of interest Schapelle Corby’s previous convictions were for what?

    The photo of her with a drug dealer that you use to evidence a long history is allegedly from 2006 and a full two years after her arrest and imprisonment in Bali. The photo, in and of itself, does not prove guilt, does it?

    Not saying that a confession precludes a trial. My comments on this were directed specifically to the idea of their being no presumption of innocence in Indonesia. However, a guilty plea from that confession would more than likely lead to a plea bargain, assuming all the relevant parties were conducive to such, and then there would be no trial but rather a sentencing hearing to confirm the plea and an agreed sentence or the judge would hand down whatever sentence deemed appropriate for the charges pleaded to.

    Judge away as to whether Corby is trash.

    @ Ross…

    I am guessing that Indonesia will insist on having one of their shrinks do an interview. I would also be guessing if a release was ever contemplated that there would be terms agreed. I would also imagine that one of those terms would be a secure psych facility until she was considered well enough to return to a general prison and a very specific non-parole period.

  10. avatar Ross says:
    August 27th, 2009 at 9:02 pm

    One hopes so.
    Oya, Rob, I think a good thread could develop on the pseudonym issue. I can’t see why people are so reluctant to put their names to their views.
    I’m not averse to a bit of goading under a false name but for serious debate, we should have the grit to identify ourselves.

  11. avatar David says:
    August 27th, 2009 at 10:09 pm

    I am guessing that Indonesia will insist on having one of their shrinks do an interview.

    Yes the doctor at Kerobokan, Dr Agus Hartawan, was quoted after this latest storm as saying she was just fine and dandy –

    THE doctor at Bali’s Kerobokan Prison, where drug smuggler Schapelle Corby is held, has expressed anger at an Australian psychiatrist’s report declaring her insane, saying she is usually ”fine”.

    http://www.theage.com.au/national/corby-is-fine-says-bali-prison-doctor-20090825-ey4z.html

  12. avatar Odinius says:
    August 27th, 2009 at 10:35 pm

    If Indonesia can shorten Abu Bakar Baasyir’s or Tommy Suharto’s sentences, why not Corby’s? After all, she neither created a terrorist network nor had a judge killed.

  13. avatar Ross says:
    August 27th, 2009 at 11:15 pm

    Fair point, but I’d prefer the logical corollary, if she gets held for decades, Tommy should be hung, with Ba’asyir beside him!

  14. avatar madrotter says:
    August 28th, 2009 at 12:43 am

    yeah yeah yeah suryo you’re very witty so congrats on that you ol’ boy please do pat yourself on your shoulder for me yeah? when i’m in holland, my land of birth i love to enjoy the pleasures that one can find in the famous coffeeshops and i don’t see anything wrong with that, doing that here in indonesia with it’s crazy antiquated laws and it’s psychotic policeforce is not something i would do or would advise to do, wouldn’t be very clever unless your pops is a general… where, if i may ask, did i say that using drugs is clever? it’s all up to you, not something a government can decide for you which i might add was what the argentinian supreme court decided this week too… funny thing is that holland with it’s ehrr, liberal laws has the lowest rates of drug related deaths in the world, the lowest percentage of addicts… it’s an old and tiresome discussion by now really…

    again, 20 years for what she did or did not do is ridiculous specially if you see what other folks get here for murder, terrorism, curruption etc. etc. etc.

    your link to that corby tour wasn’t very funny by the way….

  15. avatar The Micra says:
    August 28th, 2009 at 2:41 am

    French media once tried to “help” Mister Blanc, a french guy who received a life sentence in Bali for “Mariruana muggling”. He too said he was not aware of what was hidden in his stuff. Anyway… after the medias got involved, the Indonesian corrupted minister in charge said off the record he will make sure the guy never get out. And they moved him from Bali to a much worse jail near Surabaya. That’s how they react when foreigners want to tell them what to do.

    There is indeed no justive in Indonesia. It’s pure business. The only solution is to use force, send a commando or bribe them. But who cares indeed? Only the families…

  16. avatar Odinius says:
    August 28th, 2009 at 5:10 am

    Madrotter’s right that marijuana is less dangerous than alcohol and tobacco, which makes you wonder why it’s not only illegal, but associated with such strict punishments. It’s more damaging to the local population to import kretek!

  17. avatar Suryo Perkoso says:
    August 28th, 2009 at 6:06 am

    @Madrotter – I thought it was hilarious – by the way. And as for using Holland as an example of the success of the legalization of cannabis, it sadly fails. London may well be a dirty dangerous hole, but there is something rather sad about the ‘Dam now. Through a couple of your posts you have glorified a couple of your friends you have been convicted of drug related offenses – seems to me like you think they should have just been let off? I won’t even comment on the statistics that you have dredged up – how many people live in Holland (13 or 14 at last count) hardly a representitive sample.

    What on earth do you mean “it’s up to you”? Are we to expect that there should be no prohibition of dangerous drugs in place.

    In closing, if you don’t like the laws relating to drugs in Indo, feel free not to visit, there are many of us who have absolutely no issues with them, but then we don’t take drugs.

    @Odinius – Kindly post the source of your info – I thought that in particular some of the flavours of weed available, the ones that give you black curly teeth and long blond shoes were really quite damaging – I’m interested to here how safe weed is.

    I’d be the first to acknowledge that neither alcohol or tobacco are good for ones health, but to hear that weed is safe…..?

    @Ross, What does it matter? if you want a real good debate to flourish, choose a meeting place and knock seven colours out of each other (something on the cards in another forum at the present). I wouldn’t give you my bank account details over the ‘net, why should I identify myself to you without meeting you? There are loads of fruitcakes out there methinks.

  18. avatar Odinius says:
    August 28th, 2009 at 6:50 am

    @Suryo. The information is freely available. Weed is carcinogenic, but non-addictive and thus generally consumed in far smaller quantities than tobacco, making it far less of a cancer risk. It doesn’t ruin your liver like alcohol. At most, it turns you lazy, perhaps convinces you to grow a beard, and take that McJob over something ultimately more beneficial to society. But it doesn’t really kill you, and you don’t give other people cancer terribly often either.

    In societies where marijuana use is widespread–the UK, the US, etc.–it is not associated with social ills such as domestic abuse, vehicular homicide, assault and battery, etc. like alcohol. Arguably this is as much as argument for tobacco being illegal as it is an argument for marijuana being legal, but it stands as a double standard.

    Bottom line is that governments should be consistent: if substances are going to be illegal, then punishments should be consummate with the risk of individuals doing harm to themselves or, more importantly each other. I tend to think that what people do in the privacy of their own homes is fine and dandy, provided its not “keep a torture den” or kiddly fiddling, etc.

  19. avatar Odinius says:
    August 28th, 2009 at 6:52 am

    Sorry…editing problem. Sentence starting with “arguably” goes after sentence ending in “cander risk” in first paragraph. Damn lack of edit button!

  20. avatar Brother Mouzone says:
    August 28th, 2009 at 7:50 am

    @Suryo Perkoso

    @BM, what makes you think that hard narcotics are something new?

    Where on earth did I say or imply that? In fact, I feel the opposite is true. This prohibition is a fairly recent development whereas people have been dabbling in dope and opium since year 0.

    In fact it is their illegal status that makes many drugs so dangerous. How many people die from a clean dose of heroin? Very few. People die from impure doses, too pure doses, unclean needles, involvement in crime and the underworld. All problems which could be eliminated if these substances were legalized, taxed, regulated, and the revenues used for treatment.

    Don’t look at Holland (which actually hasn’t legalized anything). Look at Portugal.

  21. avatar Suryo Perkoso says:
    August 28th, 2009 at 10:39 am

    @ Odinius, the flaw in your plan is that cannabis is generally consumed with tobacco as a carrier – I’m led to believe too that the physical aspects are less harmful than the pyschological impacts , certainly everyone that I have ever come across that hits the Jamaican Woodbine’s a bit hard looks well wrecked – and in anycase defending your corner with a comparison like that is hardly flattering – it’s like comparing mass murderers.

    I kind of agree with you about substances that only harm the user, except…. where to draw the line, there has to be laws because not everyone is sensible in their recreation – alcohol is legal, but a drive through London late on Saturday night will tell you that people cannot control.

    @BM, are you saying that Heroin should be legalized? how about drink-drive too? I for one take it very steady after going on the lash (can’t see the road otherwise) surely it should be legal?

    Had it crossed your mind that laws regarding the control of opium were developed because people couldn’t control themselves?

  22. avatar Brother Mouzone says:
    August 28th, 2009 at 11:42 am

    @BM, are you saying that Heroin should be legalized? how about drink-drive too? I for one take it very steady after going on the lash (can’t see the road otherwise) surely it should be legal?

    The drink-driving comparison is a no-go; drink driving can and does affect other people’s lives and their expectations of safety through no fault of their own.

    But you’re right about the reasons for these laws; people can’t control themselves. However; the current mess created by the illegal status of these drugs doesn’t go any way to address that. The current system is simply not working and has led to death, misery, and corruption.

    If heroin use (to take the most extreme end of the argument) were legal, government would have at least some control over dosage, purity, needles, plus the added bonus that heroin users would no longer be criminals (and would thus be less likely to engage in other criminal behavior). Remove the illegal status of these drugs and you remove most of the damage they cause.

  23. avatar Ross says:
    August 28th, 2009 at 12:46 pm

    The reason drugs are illegal and booze isn’t … it is not because one can lead to more anti-social behaviour than the other, but because the task of outlawing alcohol would be immense, literally, and has been tried in Prohibition with undesirable consequences.

    If the demon drink were suddenly to be discovered for the very first time, there’d be lots of arguments for banning it. And I say this as a keen user…being of Scots origin, not a pusher!

  24. avatar Brother Mouzone says:
    August 28th, 2009 at 1:11 pm

    If the demon drink were suddenly to be discovered for the very first time, there’d be lots of arguments for banning it.

    Absolutely; there would be lots of very good arguments for banning it. But would it be right to do so? Or would it be an unfair and improper restriction on individual freedoms?

    Bear in mind that marijuana, opiates, and other drugs were around long before their use was prohibited (and will be around long afterwards). Their prohibition has led to huge and powerful crime syndicates, helped corrupt the police, and led to a market flooded with inferior, and thus dangerous, product.

    Just like prohibition did in the US.

  25. avatar madrotter says:
    August 28th, 2009 at 2:21 pm

    dear suryo, nope i didn’t glorify anybody, they knew the risks they were taking i was only telling what they’ve been through, one of them died horribly simply because he was a black guy from africa which in indonesia is often a crime by itself…

    again, this whole discussion is old and tiresome..

    tell you something else though,

    one day suryo perkoso was walking on those mean streets of london when he came upon a ladder in the middle of his path. a ladder that reached way up in the sky, going into the clouds. being very curious suryo perkoso started climbing it and he was climbing and climbing and climbing untill he came to a platform. on this platform lay a very ugly, very big woman who told him, “you can make sweet love to me now or you can take the ladder to succes”. well, that was an easy choice; he started climbing the ladder again. after a while suryo perkoso came to another platform where another woman lay, not as ugly as the woman before but still not what you might call beautiful and she said the same thing as that other woman said, “you can make sweet love to me now or take the ladder to succes”. suryo perkoso kept climbing and on each platform there would be another woman always a bit less ugly then the one before and each one saying the same thing, “you can make sweet love to me now or take the ladder to succes”. he then came on a platform where there was an absolute love-goddess, a woman so beautiful there just aren’t any words to describe her, she was just stunning, no way there could be a woman more beautiful, more sexy than this woman and she said, ‘you can make sweet love to me now or take the ladder to succes”. that was a hard one! but suryo perkoso made up his mind and climbed that next ladder. he came upon another platform and when he stepped onto it a trapdoor moved and his way back was closed off. on the platform sat a huge hairy biker weighing at least 400 pounds, covered in tatoos in dirty jeans and a leather jacket and a long funky beard. the biker got up and started to move slowly to suryo perkoso. softly suryo perkoso spoke, “who are you?”
    the biker said, “i’m cess”….

    i’m not in the mood for fighting on a forum, i just don’t like it when folks cheer when a woman is going through serious hell, it reminds me of executions where the peasants throw garbage at the person to be executed and scream obsceneties…

  26. avatar Sophia Noer says:
    August 28th, 2009 at 3:37 pm

    I’m not sure whether Suryo Perkoso is Indonesian but I felt he was alone in this discussion, so I’ll jump in.

    @BM and everyone.
    I don’t understand all this talk about marijuana being legal in other countries as grounds for Corby’s release or whatever. In Indonesia, the country which she trafficked weed on, it is clearly illegal. So her bringing drugs is thus punishable by law in our country.
    She should serve her 20 or so years, appeal or plea for a reduced sentence but the potency or acceptability of weed is not in question and does not influence the court rulling.

    And yes the justice system here could be better and we Indonesians too decry Tommy Soeharto’s quick release, but just as Tommy’s release is wrong it does not mean Corby’s imprisonment is wrong.

    Two wrongs doesn’t make a right, and this cliched phrase isn’t even Indonesia’s. That is what I think a lot of you are missing in your argument when you all are pitying the ‘pretty and young’ Corby.

    And there is validity to the claims that many foreigners here come to Indonesia and think they can do whatever they want in this country because of our developing status. Guess what, it doesn’t work that way. The Indonesian government and Indonesian people aren’t happily rejoicing or as madrotter said that we ” throw garbage at the person to be executed and scream obscenities”

    I wish Corby well as she serves her sentence but point at her as a reminder to foreigners who think they can do whatever they want here.

  27. avatar madrotter says:
    August 28th, 2009 at 5:31 pm

    sophia noer you are right in what you are saying i just can’t stomach those “hang the bitch” comments

  28. avatar Lairedion says:
    August 28th, 2009 at 6:02 pm

    Back in the days we used to smoke ganja while staying overnight at Gunung Gede…

  29. avatar Brother Mouzone says:
    August 28th, 2009 at 7:53 pm

    @Sophia

    @BM and everyone.
    I don’t understand all this talk about marijuana being legal in other countries as grounds for Corby’s release or whatever. In Indonesia, the country which she trafficked weed on, it is clearly illegal. So her bringing drugs is thus punishable by law in our country.

    I think you may have misread the intention of my posts. Schapelle broke the laws of Indonesia and as a guest in the country must abide by the same laws as any Indonesian.

    I was talking about the larger picture whether prohibition of some substances is effective and justified worldwide or simply worsens the problems of addiction. I believe the latter is true and I suspect that eventually many nations will decriminalize drugs.

    Your argument that;

    Two wrongs doesn’t make a right

    … could just as easily be used to support my argument. If drug use is damaging and dangerous then imprisoning/shooting/punishing users and dealers certainly doesn’t seem to be making things any better, does it?

  30. avatar Odinius says:
    August 29th, 2009 at 12:31 am

    Suryo.

    @ Odinius, the flaw in your plan is that cannabis is generally consumed with tobacco as a carrier – I’m led to believe too that the physical aspects are less harmful than the pyschological impacts , certainly everyone that I have ever come across that hits the Jamaican Woodbine’s a bit hard looks well wrecked – and in anycase defending your corner with a comparison like that is hardly flattering – it’s like comparing mass murderers.

    In much of Europe, yes. But not in North America or the Caribbean. Hardly universal.

    As for “comparing mass murderers,” how can that be the case when one is a mass murderer and the other is not?

    I’m not saying that there should be a weed smoking free-for-all, just that the existing laws are hypocritical in the extreme, and it’s ridiculous to shoot people for marijuana when the state subsidizes the far more harmful kretek industry. Same can be said of any society where tobacco is legal and marijuana is not.

    I kind of agree with you about substances that only harm the user, except…. where to draw the line, there has to be laws because not everyone is sensible in their recreation – alcohol is legal, but a drive through London late on Saturday night will tell you that people cannot control.

    Yes, true. But restrictions on alcohol do not necessarily improve drinking habits. I just read that at no time in its history has alcohol consumption in the US been higher than during Prohibition.

Pages: « 1 [2] 3 4 »



Your view on “Schapelle Corby” :


RSS
RSS feed
Email

Copyright Indonesia Matters 2006-14
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Contact