Female Circumcision

Aug 31st, 2006, in News, Society, by

The Ulema Council, Majelis Ulama Indonesia (MUI), says female circumcision is necessary for Muslims.

H. Amidhan of the MUI, speaking in Banjarmasin, said that his august organisation had no problems with female circumcision, because it was a duty for Muslims, was safe and did not cause any health problems for those who underwent it.

Circumcision is especially meant to be done for a Muslim, because circumcision not only cleans the filth from the genitals but is a requirement for every Muslim, and it also helps to contribute to a child’s growth.

From the time of Abraham until that of Muhammad circumcision had been done, for both boys and girls, and it had become a part of the culture of the Muslim world, a part that could not be left behind. Those who said that circumcision caused harm had to prove their case, he said. Logic was then applied to justifying the practice, known often as female genital mutilation (FGM) or female genital cutting (FGC).

If there are those who say that circumcision causes damage or hampers reproduction then I think they have made it up. The proof is that there has been significant growth in the population of Indonesia and most Indonesians are Muslims who have been circumcised.

Not done he went on to say that circumcision was beneficial to Muslims, both men and women, because it removed the filth from the genital area. Islam approved of circumcision, for men and women again, provided it was done in the right way.

Because a Muslim must not pray unless he is clean and one way of being clean is to be circumcised.

Amidhan was not the only one of this opinion. Syamsuddin Hasan, from the Majelis Wilayah Korps Alumni Himpunan Mahasiswa Islam (KAHMI) in South Kalimantan agreed that female circumcision must not be forbidden by the authorities.

I fear that the attempt to ban it [female circumcision] is part of the mission of a certain group who deliberately use the health excuse, to the point where Muslim women will not be clean because they haven’t been circumcised, so they can’t pray in the correct way.

He advised Muslims who work in the health field to be on their guard and not co-operate in the effort to stamp out female circumcision.

September 28th. A study in six cities, Padang (West Sumatra), Serang (Banten), Bandung (West Java), Sumenep (Madura, East Java), Makassar (South Sulawesi), and Kutai Kartanegara (East Kalimantan), has shown that 90% of Indonesian women are circumcized.

Doctor Rachmat Sentika of a hospital Child Protection Unit and Dr Zaitunah Subhan of the religious section of the ministry for womens’ empowerment said that they had met with the MUI last week and been informed that the Department of Health must not try to forbid the practice. Sentika said that the MUI did object to the removal of the clitoris but that the “opening” of the clitoris was acceptable and that health professionals should be taught how to do it properly.

January 20th 2008. New York Times article saying 96% of Indonesian girls have undergone some type of circumcision. Here.


235 Comments on “Female Circumcision”

  1. avatar Barry Prima says:

    Your mouth is spitting out islamic filths which are not compatible to our culture.

    That’s why most indonesian boys are circumcised…its so incompatible that the ceremony for circumcision has a much a much greater significance than it does in other muslim countries and is usually done at a much later age to make sure the boy remembers it.

    This islamic filth has firmly conquered the majority of Java..deal with it.

    Speaking of analogies, AA I don’t need my lips to type my ideas on IM…

  2. avatar Mohammed Khafi says:

    Mr Barry Prima,

    You have had my answers to your questions repeatedly, you simply fail to comprehend them.

    Your obvious contemp and hatred, your use of insults and profanities, and your futile attempts at character assassination make it clear to me and I would think many others that you know absolutely nothing about Islam other than what you have been brainwashed into thinking by your teachers.

    Let me remind you of some verses from Al Quran:
    “This Qur’an guides to that which is more upright, and it gives glad tidings to the believers who do good work that they will have a bountiful reward.” (Qur’an 17:9)

    ”And be humble in how you walk and lower your voice. For the harshest of all voices is the donkey’s voice.” 31:19

    ”Invite to the path of your Lord with wisdom and good advice, and argue with them in that which is better. Your Lord is fully aware of who is misguided from His path, and He is fully aware of the guided ones.” 16:125

    ”Not equal are the good and the bad response. You shall resort to the one, which is better. Thus, the one who used to be your enemy may become your best friend.” 41:34

    ”And the example of a bad word is like a tree which has been uprooted from the surface of the Earth, it has nowhere to settle.” 14:26

    ”And do not turn your cheek arrogantly from people, nor shall you roam the Earth insolently. For God does not like the arrogant show offs.” 31:18

    ”O you who believe, let not a people ridicule other people, for they may be better than they. Nor shall any women ridicule other women, for they may be better than they. Nor shall you mock one another, or call each other names. Evil indeed is the reversion to wickedness after attaining faith. And anyone who does not repent, then these are the transgressors.” 49:11

  3. avatar Burung Koel says:

    Btw bro Oral sex is very unislamic….gross..talking about you and your wife who are both Muslims doing it in public is also gross. Don’t act like the Jahiliya people bros and sistas..well at least have rasa malu..shame is the source of all virtue as Mencius said!

    Why do God-botherers of all persuasions worry about what goes on in other people’s bedrooms? Perhaps Mr Barry and his Frummy/Christian/Vatican counterparts can co-author a Sex Guide. Every paragraph can begin with the admonition “DON’T…”

    As I alluded to earlier, religions seem to be focused on the fear of women’s sexuality, and the principles of “shame”, “viryue” or “morality” (however you want to describe it) are based on controlling women, and men’s access to women. There are more important “sins” in this world for organised religion to be concerned about. War, avarice, ignorance, child mortality, to name just a few.

  4. avatar Mohammed Khafi says:

    It would appear that the Hadith believers, have a choice as to “O” or no “O”!

    Fatwa’s on Oral Sex

    It appears that they can pick and choose what they want to believe from their contradictory fabricated stories!

    Why do they not study the Quran carefully? If it were from other than GOD, they would have found in it numerous contradictions. 4:82

  5. avatar Mohammed Khafi says:

    Mr Barry said in a reference to Al Quran:

    If it was so fully detailed why didn’t it ban circumcision, (which you say is evil) especially as it was a common practice esp of the Jews??? Tool!

    In Al Quran Allah says:

    He created everything in exact measure; He precisely designed everything 25:2

    He designed you, and designed you well. 40:64

    He created the heavens and the earth for a specific purpose, designed you and perfected your design. 64:3

    He created man in the best design. 95:4

    He also says:

    [Satan said:] ” I will mislead them, I will entice them, I will command them to mark the ears of livestock, and I will command them to distort the creation of GOD.” 4:119

  6. avatar Burung Koel says:

    @ Mas Khafi. Thanks for the link to the various fatwas. I can now imagine one of these clerics on their wedding night:

    “You want me to do what?”

    Rustling of paper…

    “Alright, just hang on, babe, I have to look it up…”

  7. avatar Achmad Sudarsono says:

    All My Friend,

    Why can’t we focus on everyone being…

    Seksi ?

  8. avatar Ahmed Wazir says:

    Frankly I don’t understand what the fuss is about female circumcision. The procedure as required by Islam comprises only the removal of the prepuce or foreskin of the clitoris which is analogous to male circumcision. It not only helps in keeping the clitoris clean and free of filthy smegma, but also helps in sexual pleasure by exposing the surface area of the clitoris to stimulation which in uncircumcised women is hindered by the presence of the clitoral prepuce or hood as it is commonly known. In fact, western women who have understood the benefits of the procedure are paying thousands of dollars to get it done and improve their sex life. The procedure is known in these countries as hoodectomy. See for instance the site http://www.geocities.com/hoodectomy/hoodectomy.html which interestingly enough also gives an Islamic perspective of the procedure and the benefits that could be obtained from it.

  9. avatar Cukurungan says:

    He created everything in exact measure; He precisely designed everything 25:2

    God carefully design your penis exactly suitable for vaginas of your wives but why you still need help of your tongue to satisfy your wives….do not do that anymore that very un-Islamic…if you can not satisfy your wives there are still many other option like Arabian Oil or drinking mixing telor bebek with cofee…remember our tongue is not designed to clean-up pussy

  10. avatar schmerly says:

    @Cukurungan.. Yea but I bet you like the blow job’s yea? is that “un-Islamic?

  11. avatar Aluang Anak Bayang says:

    @ Barry Prima

    This islamic filth has firmly conquered the majority of Java..deal with it.

    Ask your Javanese guru about Javanism, then you know why. Majority are moslem, so am I; but how many are the moslem that you envision. Have you visited your beloved christian parents and siblings last christmas?

  12. avatar Burung Koel says:

    Frankly I don’t understand what the fuss is about female circumcision.

    /Looks down.

    Er…maybe you should ask some women?

    In fact, western women who have understood the benefits of the procedure are paying thousands of dollars to get it done and improve their sex life.

    Yes, and getting boob jobs, facial surgery, rib lifts, calf implants, liposuction. Really, if Paris Hilton jumped off a cliff, would you as well?

  13. avatar Jagdish says:

    Circumcising is the best way of life for one to live and understand cleanliness.
    Traditional female circumcising is encouraging and not taken negatively by society as a barbaric action. By removing the tip of the clitoris lips, one can have more pleasure during sex and thus prolongs pleasure till climax is reached.
    In fact by cutting up the genital lips , the beauty of a female is more prominent and admired by opposite sex.
    Referring to religion, it ishould not be a sensitive issue because circumcising is part of human cleanliness and should be exercised globally.
    Therefore it is so much better to have both male and female circumcision perform in traditional ceremonies with clean facilities and proper sharp cutting instruments.
    The cutting of female genital lips should be limited to type 1 whereby only the clitoris is removed and not removing the entire genitals for young girls age from 8 to 11 years. This provides them the benefits of healthy life styles and sexual pleasures.

  14. avatar rayner says:

    Ahmed Wazir Says:
    ” also helps in sexual pleasure by exposing the surface area of the clitoris to stimulation which in uncircumcised women is hindered by the presence of the clitoral prepuce or hood as it is commonly known.”

    The clitoris is almost as long as the male penis. It extends way into the vagina. Only the superior aspect and the tip of the clitoris is visible.

    When intercourse takes place the clitoris is stimulated along it’s underside. The prepuce doesn’t in any way interfere with woman’s enjoyment. When engaged in intercourse the hood will retract unless it has become adhesed to the clitoris underneath. This is a fairly rare condition and will sometimes need out patient surgery to free it up. A local anaesthetic is usually used. Female circumcision is illegal in Britain.

    It can sometimes be very enjoyable to women to have that tip gently massaged by a thumb while intercourse takes place. I do understand that different religions have different beliefs and rules. I have not as yet read any religious rules written by women? Anyone know of any written by women?

    I am an advocate of using one’s tongue to give a woman pleasure as so many women are unable to fully enjoy intercourse. If an hour or so is given up to using one’s tongue on the clitoris, and the external labia this will get a women fully prepared to enjoy intercourse.

    As this newsgroup is not confined to believers in the Islamic faith for those who are interested in a totally new way of giving women pleasure by using their tongues, go to getorgasmic.com. This is an educational site and will be of interest to mostly women.

    In fact, western women who have understood the benefits of the procedure are paying thousands of dollars to get it done and improve their sex life. The procedure is known in these countries as hoodectomy. See for instance the site http://www.geocities.com/hoodectomy/hoodectomy.html which interestingly enough also gives an Islamic perspective of the procedure and the benefits that could be obtained from it.

    I am sorry but I have been a sex therapist and educator for over 25 years and have never heard of women paying thousands of dollars to have the hood of their clitoris excised. I will check out the URL you have quoted and get back to you on this.

  15. avatar rayner says:

    http://www.geocities.com/hoodectomy/hoodectomy.htm Went there. Most interesting site. But I am afraid that I don’t agree with the premise. Exposure of the clitoris or the penis to rubbing on fabric will eventually desensitize it. Don’t disagree with anyone who is an adult having the procedure done. A matter for individual choice.

  16. avatar oigal says:

    The cutting of female genital lips should be limited to type 1 whereby only the clitoris is removed

    How very noble and caring!!..It’s actually frightening such barbarism has enough reasoning ability to write yet spew out such violent nonsense.

  17. avatar ahmed says:

    To all those who think female circumcision is not Islamic or barbaric read this well written article on the subject and then form your judgement

    Female Circumcision in Islam

    Although there is nothing in the Qur’an regarding the practice of
    circumcision, whether male or female, there exist many ahadith or
    sayings of the Prophet to show the important place, circumcision,
    whether of males or females, occupies in Islam.

    Among these traditions is the one where the Prophet is reported to have
    declared circumcision (khitan) to be sunnat for men and ennobling for
    women (Baihaqi). He is also known to have declared that the bath
    (following sexual intercourse without which no prayer is valid) becomes
    obligatory when both the circumcised parts meet (Tirmidhi). The fact that
    the Prophet defined sexual intercourse as the meeting of the male and
    female circumcised parts (khitanul khitan) when stressing on the need for
    the obligatory post-coital bath could be taken as pre-supposing or
    indicative of the obligatory nature of circumcision in the case of both
    males and females.

    Stronger still is his statement classing circumcision (khitan) as one of the
    acts characteristic of the fitra or God-given nature (Or in other words,
    Divinely-inspired natural inclinations of humans) such as the shaving of
    pubic hair, removing the hair of the armpits and the paring of nails
    (Bukhari) which again shows its strongly emphasized if not obligatory
    character in the case of both males and females. Muslim scholars are of
    the view that acts constituting fitra which the Prophet expected Muslims
    to follow are to be included in the category of wajib or obligatory.

    That the early Muslims regarded female circumcision as obligatory even
    for those Muslims who embraced Islam later in life is suggested by a
    tradition occurring in the Adab al Mufrad of Bukhari where Umm Al
    Muhajir is reported to have said: “I was captured with some girls from
    Byzantium. (Caliph) Uthman offered us Islam, but only myself and one
    other girl accepted Islam. Uthman said: ‘Go and circumcise them and
    purify them.’” More recently, we had Sheikh Jadul Haqq, the
    distinguished head of Al Azhar declaring both male and female
    circumcision to be obligatory religious duties (Khitan Al Banat in Fatawa
    Al-Islamiyyah. 1983). The fatwa by his successor Tantawi who opposed
    the practice cannot be taken seriously as we all know that he has
    pronounced a number of unislamic fatwas such as declaring bank interest
    halal and questioning the obligation of women wearing headdresses

    At the same time, however, what is required in Islam, is the removal of
    only the prepuce of the clitoris, and not the clitoris itself as is widely
    believed. The Prophet is reported to have told Umm Atiyyah, a lady who
    circumcised girls in Medina: “When you circumcise, cut plainly and do
    not cut severely, for it is beauty for the face and desirable for the
    husband” (idha khafadti fa ashimmi wa la tanhaki fa innahu ashraq li’l
    wajh wa ahza ind al zawj) (Abu Dawud, Al Awsat of Tabarani and Tarikh
    Baghdad of Al Baghdadi).

    This hadith clearly explains the procedure to be followed in the
    circumcision of girls. The words: “Cut plainly and do not cut severely”
    (ashimmi wa la tanhaki) is to be understood in the sense of removing the
    skin covering the clitoris, and not the clitoris. The expression “It is beauty
    (more properly brightness or radiance) for the face” (ashraq li’l wajh) is
    further proof of this as it simply means the joyous countenance of a
    woman, arising out of her being sexually satisfied by her husband. The
    idea here is that it is only with the removal of the clitoral prepuce that
    real sexual satisfaction could be realized. The procedure enhances sexual
    feeling in women during the sex act since a circumcised clitoris is much
    more likely to be stimulated as a result of direct oral, penile or digital
    contact than the uncircumcised organ whose prepuce serves as an
    obstacle to direct stimulation.

    A number of religious works by the classical scholars such as Fath Al
    Bari by Ibn Hajar Asqalani and Sharhul Muhadhdhab of Imam Nawawi
    have stressed on the necessity of removing only the prepuce of the
    clitoris and not any part of the organ itself. It is recorded in the Majmu Al
    Fatawa that when Ibn Taymiyyah was asked whether the woman is
    circumcised, he replied: “Yes we circumcise. Her circumcision is to cut
    the uppermost skin (jilda) like the cock’s comb.” More recently Sheikh
    Jadul Haqq declared that the circumcision of females consists of the
    removal of the clitoral prepuce (Khitan Al Banat in Fatawa Al Islamiyya.
    1983).

    Besides being a religious duty, the procedure is believed to facilitate good
    hygiene since the removal of the prepuce of the clitoris serves to prevent
    the accumulation of smegma, a foul-smelling, germ-containing cheese-
    like substance that collects underneath the prepuces of uncircumcised
    women (See Al Hidaayah. August 1997). A recent study by Sitt Al Banat
    Khalid ‘Khitan Al-Banat Ru’ yah Sihhiyyah’ (2003) has shown that
    female circumcision, like male circumcision, offers considerable health
    benefits, such as prevention of urinary tract infections and other diseases
    affecting the reproductive organs.

  18. avatar rayner says:

    I have never read such illogical nonsense. There is absolutely no need to remove the prepuce of the clitoris in order to clean it. Just as uncircumcised men do, just gently pull back the hood when you are washing and clean below. No problem.

  19. avatar Hugh says:

    What this all boils down to is, “someone says…”. Anyone can say anything. To make something worth following needs more than that.

  20. avatar Suryo Perkoso says:

    I am an advocate of using one’s tongue to give a woman pleasure as so many women are unable to fully enjoy intercourse. If an hour or so is given up to using one’s tongue on the clitoris, and the external labia this will get a women fully prepared to enjoy intercourse.

    An hour? Get a grip man. One’s tongue would end up look like a police station doormat after an hour on the furburger. If you haven’t achied liftoff after about 4 minutes, then you’d better spend your time heading for the pub.

    Ahmed is talking some right old shite – next thing he’ll be suggesting a flangectomy for those who can’t wash their crimper and end up with a ginger ring.

    Little bit of soap and water is all that is necessary my son, not cutting off half the giblets.

  21. avatar ET says:

    @ ahmed

    If your creator did endow the female genitalia with a prepuce he must certainly have had a reason to do so. It testifies of extreme arrogance on Muhammad’s and your part to critizise the ‘creator’ by removing parts he deemed right for his creatures.

    Moreover your statement

    The idea here is that it is only with the removal of the clitoral prepuce that real sexual satisfaction could be realized. The procedure enhances sexual feeling in women during the sex act since a circumcised clitoris is much more likely to be stimulated as a result of direct oral, penile or digital contact than the uncircumcised organ whose prepuce serves as an obstacle to direct stimulation.

    is sheer nonsense because the constant exposure of the clitoris without prepuce to the environment and to friction caused by movements and walking will harden the tissue and make it less sensible during sexual contact.

    Nice try to give a soft explanation to a barbaric practice but your motives are transparent. It serves to sweeten the deal for ignorant women who are made to believe this nefarious religious obligation is for their own best will and not for reducing their sex drive so that the husband can be reassured about his spouse’s fidelity. Not to mention the children who become the victims of this practice without their consent.

    Those who coerce women and girls into circumcision should themselves be castrated.

  22. avatar jamie says:

    Please be aware, all parts of a body were put there for a reason.

    Any parent who takes a child to Indonesia, if a relative takes that child for any kind of mutilation, khitan sunnat etc even if the parent didn’t know, on discovery of this in Europe, the parents will go to prison. Whether European citizens or not.

    Cutting any part off a girl’s genitals is mutilation, and carries the same prison sentence as if the parent raped a 3 year old girl.

    The Koran does not ask for it, muslims and scholars are against it. It is done by uneducated savage africans, surely Indonesians are educated cultured people?

    For all of Europe this is illegal and punishable in all cases, also the child will be taken away from the parents, because anyone who can harm a child is dangerous to that child.

    For all European men, and any real man I think, they want a wife with all of the parts that they were created with. Indonesians you are harming your girls if you do anything to their clitoris or labia, it belongs to them leave it where it is. When the whole of Europe knows about this, it will be very bad for Indonesia. You cannot pretend it does not happen any more.

    Please love cherish and protect your girls, stop harming them. They are the world’s future. They are also the future of Islam, you are turning people away from Islam by doing it.

  23. avatar ahmed Wazir says:

    So tell me Jamie, how come so many western women both in the US and EU are choosing to undergo hoodectomy which is billed as the hottest cosmetic surgery for women, both for a better sex life as well as to facilitate greater genital hygiene. This hoodectomy is the same as the female circumcision prescribed in Islam which involves the removal of the clitoral hood. Any comments ?

  24. avatar ET says:

    @Ahmed Wazir

    So Jamie tell me how come so many western women, both in the US and EU are choosing to undergo hoodectomy which is billed as the hottest cosmetic surgery for women, both to enhance their sex life as well as to facilitate better genital hygiene. This hoodectomy is the same as the female circumcision advocated in Islam. Your comments ?

    An idiotic comment from a presumably even greater islamist idiot who might have heard something but hasn’t got the picture. This cosmetic surgery – called designer vagina – has nothing to do with hoodectomy but is uniquely done for so-called – evenly stupid i admit – esthetic reasons by straitening the outer vulva and removing excess labia minora that protude from the vagina. The clitoris nor its hood aren’t touched and the reason why it is done has nothing to do with a better sex life or greater genital hygiene. The reason why it is done is because they – some western women – believe it makes their genital area look younger.

    Before making a fool of yourself get yourself properly informed and stop listening to imams spewing nonsense.

  25. avatar Mohammed Khafi says:

    ahmed Wazir said:

    This hoodectomy is the same as the female circumcision prescribed in Islam which involves the removal of the clitoral hood. Any comments ?

    The major difference is the fact that hoodectomy is being carried out on mature adult women who make a conscious effort to request it, as opposed to the filthy corrupt hadith inspired practice which is forced on young children who have no choice in the matter.

    [004:119] `And assuredly I will lead them astray and assuredly I will arouse in them vain desires, and assuredly I will incite them and they will cut the ears of cattle; and assuredly I will incite them and they will alter ALLAH’s creation.’ And whoever takes Satan for a friend instead of ALLAH, he certainly suffers a manifest loss.

  26. avatar Hugh7 says:

    Whatever the actual number, only a tiny, tiny proportion of western women are ever choosing to have any cosmetic genital surgery. Their existence proves nothing.

  27. avatar ahmed says:

    I am sorry to say Khafi but it is you who have been misled by the devil when you pronounce female circumcision to be unislamic. It is not at all altering Allah’s creation, but a return to the fitra or natural order of Islam. There can be no doubt that the circumcision of females is obligatory in Islam. We do not have to look far for the answer. This is evident in the following ahadith 1) the hadith where khitan (circumcision) is classed as a fitra act, 2) the hadith that mentions ghusl (bath after intercourse) being obligatory when the two (male and female) circumcised parts meet (which presupposes the necessity for the circumcision of females as of males) and 3) the hadith where Caliph Uthman is said to have ordered the circumcision of the Byzantine female convert Umm Muhajir and her companion shortly after they had embraced Islam.

    And Hugh, if you’re still doubtful of the benefits of hoodectomy why not visit http://www.hoodectomyinformation.com for some latest studies and find out for yourselves ?

  28. avatar Oigal says:

    Ahmed,

    It’s barbaric, uncivilised and child abuse with no basis in science or health. Just the imposition of the will of insecure men on those who cannot defend themselves

  29. avatar Swagman says:

    Before making a fool of yourself get yourself properly informed and stop listening to imams spewing nonsense

    That advice is far too late I am afraid … from what I have read, ahmed has constantly made a fool of himself – understandably in the name of Allah of course.

  30. avatar Ahmed says:

    Oigal

    Pls visit http://www.hoodectomyinformation.com and find out for yourself if its really barbaric as the Jews would have us believe. The Jews promote newborn male circumcision because its Jewish while at the same time condemning its female equivalent because its Islamic and finds no place in Judaism. My advice to you, brother, try to see issues from an Islamic rather than a Jewish perspective. And still if you refuse to see reason all I can say is I am sorry for you man.

    None are so blind as those who refuse to see !

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