98 Comments on “Timor Tour of Duty”

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1. Oigal Says:
   November 11th, 2009 at 8:08 am

   Oigal, I don’t want to have to give you another bloody nose.

   That’ll be the day sunshine (as much as I would enjoy your attempt)

   as I said you have been weighted measured and found wanting

2. ET Says:
   November 11th, 2009 at 8:42 pm

   @ Danny

   Oigal, actually I wasn’t laughing at torture, murder, rape (you forgot to mention this) of innocent civilians. I was laughing at myself, how I can be so objective, how I was defending and blaming TNI at the same time.

   These smiley emoticons and in fact the Indonesian cultural oddity of continuously laughing or smiling to hide embarrassment can be quite disturbing and often creates misunderstanding.

   Sorry to lecture but I think you should be aware.

3. Browser Says:
   November 12th, 2009 at 12:05 am

   @ ET

   Sorry to lecture but I think you should be aware.

   no problem, actually glad someone care enough to correct me, thank you

   Actually, (again) I wasn’t addressed it to the people of TL. I was addressing it to my self, but for other reason, like I said on my previous post. I have a weird sense of humor.

   And if you ask my opinion, I wasn’t embarrassed about what happened. Never felt that way.

   I regret it, yes.
   I am sorry for those people / victims, yes.
   I hope that it will never happen again, yes.
   I hope for the better TNI (in this case, the soldiers’ morale) in the future, yes.

   But I never feel embarrassed. It’s a history, and for me, it will be best to look for a better future than to stuck in the past, smiling and laughing to hide embarrassment.

   the Indonesian cultural oddity of continuously laughing or smiling to hide embarrassment can be quite disturbing and often creates misunderstanding.

   I don’t mean to “get back at you” or whatever the phrase is, but actually, it is not Indonesian culture. Maybe it is a culture of certain tribe(s) / people in Indonesia, but surely it is not my culture (and I am an Indonesian), never do such thing, never taught to do such thing. I actually surprised / confused when I read your comment about that “embarrassment” thing.

   Again, I feel sorry, regret it and hope for a better future, but never embarrass. I mean, it’s in the past and it’s a fact, so, the best thing to do is correcting ourselves than to laugh and smile.

4. Browser Says:
   November 12th, 2009 at 12:07 am

   Oh, this is Danny, I changed my nickname

5. Odinius Says:
   November 13th, 2009 at 7:38 am

   I’m not likely to offer a defense of ABRI/TNI, but I’m deeply wary of documentaries these days. Too many ridiculous, half-baked conspiracy theories and poorly documented assertions.

   I’ll wait until the companion book.

6. Zorobabel Says:
   November 20th, 2009 at 11:03 pm

   I don’t know if this particular attack was carried out by Kopassus, but it wouldn’t surprise me. I have many relatives who work at BIN–the Indonesian intelligence agency–and they have explained to me how most of the post-election violence in East Timor was orchestrated by the Indonesian military and intelligence services. No surprise there, as I think this is widely known.

   They have also told me that, yes, they killed Munir and justified it by saying he was selling information to the Dutch. I don’t know exactly what kind of top secret info about Indonesia that Munir could possibly have had, but then again this is Indonesia, and conspiracies permeate every level of society.

   That’s just how this country works, though. Every Indonesian knows who was behind the violence in East Timor, who killed Munir, who set up the KPK, etc. The Turkish people have a term for the convergence of the military, police, intelligence, political/economic elite; they call it the Deep State. That’s what we have here in Indonesia. Those who profit from the Deep State or who are blindly patriotic will defend it. Those with a little intelligence or not connected to the Deep State will decry it. Defenders of the Deep State usually keep their mouthes shut when talking to other Indonesians, but they can come to places like IndonesiaMatters and spout their nonsense because they think foreigners don’t know better.

7. Oigal Says:
   December 7th, 2009 at 5:46 pm

   See some dodgy Ltcol has spilled his guts and confessed to what the whole world already knew (tempo and the australian newspaper).

   It was interesting to read this bloke was honourably (?) discharged after the Santa Cruz Murders in Dili. What beautiful memories he must have as old age and fate reaps her due.

8. Achmad Sudarsono Says:
   December 7th, 2009 at 9:44 pm

   All,

   Seksi Mr. Patoengs,

   I think Zorobabel has posted something which cuts to the thick of things – specially with the Turkey reference – might be worth giving this more attention.

   Drs. A. Sudarsono

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