Juvenile Crime & Punishment

Aug 10th, 2009, in News, by

Child crime, the convictions of ten boys aged under 16 for playing a gambling game in Tangerang.

Ten boys, aged 12 to 16, were arrested at Soekarno-Hatta International Airport in late May after police claimed they were playing a coin-tossing game for a 1,000 rupiah (10 cents) prize and shining shoes without a license.

They were held in custody for a month and on July 27th were tried in a Tangerang court and found guilty of gambling, but received no punishment.


Some of the boys, required to wear fun masks at the trial, supposedly to hide their identities

While attending a function to mark World Childrens' Day on 2nd August in Jakarta vice president Jusuf Kalla said of the case

It's a dilemma. Whatever the reason children must not be allowed to get involved in gambling. They need to be watched over and guided away from such things.

Kalla said however that prison was not the right place for children caught gambling, and nor should they be tried in court. kompas

While almost all commentators voiced similar sentiments, that handling the matter through the criminal justice system was not appropriate, presiding Judge Retno Pujiningtyas believed that convicting the boys of gambling was necessary to send them a stern message not to gamble again.


71 Comments on “Juvenile Crime & Punishment”

  1. avatar Rob says:

    @ Dragonwall…

    My points are hardly vague.

    You were not talking about discrimination and racial injustice generally. You were talking about explicit pros and cons of being Pribumi / Indigenous Indonesian or Indonesian Chinese in the face of the Indonesian legal system, right? Discrimination and racial prejudice exists outside the confines of the law as well, wouldn’t you agree? This is true in places that have extensive racial discrimination laws in place.

    This is my point about the “system” as you call it. The discrimination laws that you are referring to that remain on the books and explicitly target Indonesian Chinese are which ones? What regulations and laws are we talking about? There are specific laws on the books that would prohibit discrimination against Indonesian citizens. However, my point was that enforcement does not always give voice to the theory.

    Australia had laws in place that discriminated against Indigenous Australians and we have introduced laws in some parts that deal with specific issues related to Indigenous Australians. Australia, as most readers of this forum will be aware, produced and implemented a “White Australia Policy” that in effect made it just about impossible for non-anglos and non-whites to gain entry into Australia. However, these laws are all but gone and enforcement means that the high levels of discrimination have disappeared.

    I guess if you asked around, there would be plenty of Indonesians that would still feel that the process and rules and regulations governing visas to Australia are too tough and perhaps even discriminatory against some groups.

    Gambling is not just a matter of Sharia Law. Mate, get a grip. This is not Muslim vs. Christian thing. These kids were not prosecuted because of their religion or some introduction by stealth of Sharia Law. They were gambling in the sense of the definition that is in the law. However, the Child Protection Law would suggest that a trial should have been an option of last resort.

    Yep, I think grandfather time is what you will need to explain this to me. But, you should probably take the time to explain; for two reasons: first, I am a life-long learner and would love to learn, and second as a lawyer this sounds like stuff that I should know.

    The last I time checked Indonesia was still operating, theoretically, on the presumption of innocence. There has been some talk of reversing this burden with respect to corruption matters. If I am not mistaken Singapore would have inherited the presumption of innocence from the English Law, right? But, let’s look at Singapore as a shining example of a fair justice / legal system. How are public criticisms of the PAP and its leaders dealt with, historically?

    Ah, yes. Let’s sue the arse of our opposition, bankrupt them, and ensure that they are excluded from participation. Singaporeans have traditionally accepted this trade off for the peace and prosperity that they enjoy. However, getting back to the previous point, even in a defamation case in Singapore, the prosecution still have the burden of proving that the defamation occurred. Once it does that, then the court kicks into action and does its thing. The system works, but is it always fair and just?

    Conventional Law and Continental Law? Are we talking about common law and civil law here? Plea bargaining is something that happens in a lot of jurisdictions and is generally a means of getting the guilty party convicted of something, even a lesser offense. This might not be a perfect system, but it is one that is better than nothing at all. The whole plea bargaining issue is currently a subject of considerable debate in Australia because it is believed that the DPP does not take sufficient note of the feelings of victims when drawing up a plea deal. Simply, there are some victims who would be prepared to go the “all or nothing” route. That is, charge the perpetrator with the most serious offense available and then prosecute them. No deals.

    Agreeing to disagree is not being naive. To the contrary, it is an acceptance that I am not going to convince you with my arguments and similarly you are not going to convince me with yours. That is hardly naive, it is reality.

    But, once again, to each their own!

  2. avatar Suryo Perkoso says:

    You have been outdated because you didn’t know that I am a Singaporean. And damn right you are that I know about British law because Singapore inherits and better the British Legal System to be deterrent enough by sending dicks like you scurring away from that country. Electric chair is not cruel enough comparing to Hang To Death and have your heels cut to make sure the person is dead after David Marshall champion the grey spots in Singapore’s legal system. This is what I term it as a legal system.

    I knew you were chinese though, and Singaporeans have got to be the worst flavour. A jet crashes and nobody flinches, the rate drop 0.001% and you are all crying to sleep.

    What do you resent? Indonesia not facing Krismon while Singapore is sliding down hill?

    You have been outdated because you didn’t know that I am a Singaporean. And damn right you are that I know about British law because Singapore inherits and better the British Legal System to be deterrent enough by sending dicks like you scurring away from that country. Electric chair is not cruel enough comparing to Hang To Death and have your heels cut to make sure the person is dead after David Marshall champion the grey spots in Singapore’s legal system. This is what I term it as a legal system.

    You talk a load of old fanny. The singers legal system can’t be all that my rittle flend because it hasn’t prevented continued cruelty against maids and helps has it?

    In the UK, before we became wet, we used to drop our condemned man properly so as to ensure a clean death. We are not animals, we can kill a man cleanly for his crimes, yet you lot still bungle executions – think on that for a moment.

    A legal system has nothing to do with eventual punishment, a legal system has a duty to determine guilt or otherwise, not to make a condemned man suffer – he will pay the ultimate price. That is quite a chinese trait though, chinese seem to enjoy watching suffering in animals, so why should I expect anything like an ounce of humility from you? And you wonder why Pribumi’s get pissed with loud arrogant chinese who treat them like trash? Well my friend, I watched you all head for Singers and Bali during the last Krismon, why was that? Frightened that the pembantu’s husbnad may want to get even for feeding her table scraps and treating her like a dog?

    The sooner dinosaurs like you get real and change your attitudes the better, until them, look over your shoulder friend, and get the paint ready for the “milik pribumi” daubed on the front door come the next judgement day.

    And you had the bloody cheak to say I didn’t understand. Hahaha, get that paint ready brother hitachi.

  3. avatar Odinius says:

    Suryo said:

    What is this crap? do I have to pass a “life in jawa” test now? I know what there was and is regarding anti-chinese feeling, I also know how sometimes chinese can behave in such a manner as to encourage this.

    We aren’t talking about that though are we? we are talking about Dragonwall complaining that a month in clink and then release wasn’t sufficient punishment for those kids, then he crapped on about “if it was a chinese” blah blah blah, and then some odd comment about a chinese guy flattening a becak, and it rambled on from that. There were comments that justice in the UK was in some way fairer, something that is not necessaril proven.

    I live a pretty “real life”, I’m just watching Derings on TransTV, and the Changcuters are on next, I intend to nip into the depot bangunan after lunch (Shepherds Pie and Siomay), I’ve just regrouted the bathroom floor as the original grout had started to drop out, I also intend to strip the brakes out of the car tomorrow and polish the wheel cylinder pistons in my little lathe – I suppose I could also try and find a rich chinese and ride my becak into his Merc to find out if he gets cross. Oh and just out of interest, we are the only ones in the street with our merah putih melayang for tomorrow.

    Did you want me to put my blangkon on, my batik shirt that I got for my birthday and my gajah duduk sarung? would that be local enough for you?

    Well, now that you mention it, yes! Also please remove a few of your teeth and add a pint of sugar to whatever you are drinking/eating.

    Seriously, it just seemed that you were going too far in the other extreme. Dragonwall is obviously obsessed, and taking things to a bit of an extreme, but that doesn’t mean the opposite extreme is true. I’ve personally witnessed several incidents of anti-Chinese racism in recent years, though to contextualize, I also strongly feel as if the incidence and frequency of such events is declining, and has been for most of the past 10 years. But it’s still a work in progress, much like racism against blacks in the US. There is a tendency among some in both countries to simply wash their hands and say it’s over and done with, but it’s not.

  4. avatar Suryo Perkoso says:

    Maybe you’re right, perhaps it could just be a knee jerk reaction to the obsession.

    Yes, it’s there, and it will always be there, it’s a bit the UK and it’s building of a “just and tolerant society”, that won’t happen because Brits are tired of being told what they can and can’t say – perhaps if you leave them alone, then they will remain tolerant.

    Unfortunately there are people like Dragonwall who just cannot do that – I’d very much doubt that he has been a victim of anti-chinese’ism, and if he has, I can quite understand why. I also feel like crashing my becak into his merc – form a line now, nice and orderly.

  5. avatar Dragonwall says:

    Honestly speaking to people like you are SAD..SUCH A DICK.

    No one here is asking you to cast doubts on anyone. To each their own, to like and not to like.

    Right, come show me the becak and form the line. People like you are no more than just gossiping bitch. And you even felt yourself being patronized. ngaca Dulu. I like to overlook that unless you are standing next to Dolly. And seriously doubt that much of tolerance you possess.

    I will try and find time to fit you in later., what more on commenting to people who felt his arguments should be accepted by others just because he has been going around licking with a “subway” in his mouth.

  6. avatar Suryo Perkoso says:

    And now in english or if you prefer bahasa Indonesia, in whatever case, in a language that I can understand.

    Anyway, bollocks to you, today is our day, we don’t care about you lot, bugger off back to Singapore.

    MERDEKA !!!

    DIRGAHAYU RI HUT KE 64’an.

  7. avatar diego says:

    Such an anti-climax…, any form of “debate” involving dragie always ends up with the guys saying to dragie: “whatever”.

    Hmm….

  8. avatar Dragonwall says:

    You are probable the one and the only dieg who love dick a liacking..whatever…keep on licking men.

  9. avatar Dragonwall says:

    Didn’t I say someone was waiting for the right timing to send in the punch…ha just too bad for someone who felt haphazardly patronize..Beware HIV, H1N1 and thos Dolly stuffs…

  10. avatar Rob says:

    @ Dragonwall…

    Honestly speaking to people like you are SAD..SUCH A DICK.

    Is this directed at me? It seems a little unclear.

    I am wondering about the next part though. It does not seem to evidence any solid arguments in support of your points of view. It reads like the little boy who takes his ball and goes home when he does not get his way.

    Right, come show me the becak and form the line. People like you are no more than just gossiping bitch. And you even felt yourself being patronized. ngaca Dulu. I like to overlook that unless you are standing next to Dolly. And seriously doubt that much of tolerance you possess.

    I will try and find time to fit you in later., what more on commenting to people who felt his arguments should be accepted by others just because he has been going around licking with a “subway” in his mouth.

    Nevertheless, I hope you enjoy your day.

  11. avatar Dragonwall says:

    With your intellect you seemed to be drawn into someone’s fantasy.

    Why would I want to refer that to you other than referring to the guy that felt patronized with his anti climax remarks and celebrating HUT RI..

    Well you said that right when someone waiting in line with his becak getting ready to ra into my merc when i come by as the person who takes his ball home when he does not get his way.

    Ha.ha.ha. and you too a nice day.

  12. avatar Dragonwall says:

    You were not talking about discrimination and racial injustice generally.

    Yes, I am talking about discrimination and racial injustice generally

    You were talking about explicit pros and cons of being Pribumi / Indigenous Indonesian or Indonesian Chinese in the face of the Indonesian legal system, right?

    No I am talking about the legal system that is being manipulated and at the mercy of those that were suppose to upheld the law.

    Discrimination and racial prejudice exists outside the confines of the law as well, wouldn’t you agree? This is true in places that have extensive racial discrimination laws in place.

    Right it happens in place like in Indonesia where there are still people holding his lapdog and insist that they no longer or pretend it does not exist.

    This is my point about the “system” as you call it. The discrimination laws that you are referring to that remain on the books and explicitly target Indonesian Chinese are which ones? What regulations and laws are we talking about?

    The STAATSBLAD 1917 especially the Jo 130 that is still in force. The other that was wrongly cancelled further targeting and discriminating the Indonesia Chinese.

    There are specific laws on the books that would prohibit discrimination against Indonesian citizens.

    Right, there was Presidential Decree to prohibit discrimination against Indonesian citizens, especially the Chinese but in practice no one bat an eye on this decree and continue to have them enforced.
    Look into the one Yusril Ihza Mahendra shafted that down the throat of MPR for approval under the Sharia Law and that was after the Presidential Decree was passed down. I suspected that Yusril who was born in Bangka could have been a Chinese himself and resent the Chinese because he was hoping that by embracing Islam he could be the president of RI.

    Australia had laws in place that discriminated against Indigenous Australians and these laws are all but gone and enforcement means that the high levels of discrimination have disappeared.

    I will not comment on this.

    Gambling is not just a matter of Sharia Law.

    Gambling is just about the most important part of enforcing the Sharia Law.
    In this country, yes this is almost, if not all, Muslim vs. Christian thing.

    These kids were not prosecuted because of their religion or some introduction by stealth of Sharia Law.

    I was speculating on the possibility of having to use this ruse as a benchmark to further enforce the sharia Law.

    They were gambling in the sense of the definition that is in the law.

    Right I understand there are definition in the Law on Gambling and that the Sharia Law could be elbowing their way into minorities to be subjugated by the Sharia Law.

    However, the Child Protection Law would suggest that a trial should have been an option of last resort.

    You really believe this could be possible in Indonesia? I guess not.
    I am a life-long learner and would love to learn and then I think you should get some

    of those book to make sure you a guided correctly.
    And this sounds like stuff that I should know.

    Well I guess you better do and that is one reason that I am trying to stay as far as possible from Indonesia.

    The last I time checked Indonesia was still operating, theoretically, on the presumption of innocence.

    Yeah theoretically I guess but don’t ever believe on the presumption of innonence. When they bring you into the (gaol or clink) joint then just forget that this will happen to anyone with regardless.

    If I am not mistaken Singapore would have inherited the presumption of innocence from the English Law, right?

    This is applicable in US. As for Singapore it is for you to prove your innocence.

    But, let’s look at Singapore as a shining example of a fair justice / legal system. How are public criticisms of the PAP and its leaders dealt with, historically?

    Historically speaking, I like to agree with anyone that certain influence was forced into the system knowing politics are dirty.

    Ah, yes. Let’s sue the arse of our opposition, bankrupt them, and ensure that they are excluded from participation.

    That is what I am telling you here above by saying “you better do that”. My comment on this is that those opposition politicians were stupid enough to have made slanderous if not unsubstantiated remarks for them to capitalize on. Then there is no one to blame except yourself.

    Singaporeans have traditionally accepted this trade off for the peace and prosperity that they enjoy.

    Wrong. Singaporean accepted this because there weren’t any other political parties that have proven their credentials of a better future for their citizens. PAP have for that many years delivered their promise.

    However, getting back to the previous point, even in a defamation case in Singapore, the prosecution still have the burden of proving that the defamation occurred. Once it does that, then the court kicks into action and does its thing. The system works, but is it always fair and just?

    Well you said that right and most of the cases they have proven the libel and defamation suit stands in favor of the plaintiff. And in the court of law when a party can prove the other party wrong, then the judgement is fair and just. Jeyaratnam is also a lawyer. He understands what was going on. He defies them to be honest and that was his main problem. He detested LKY for whatever reason I don’t know. How I wish I knew.

    Conventional Law and Continental Law? Are the types used in the Judiciary system.

    Common law and civil law here? Implies to Criminal and litigations.

    Plea bargaining is something that happens in a lot of jurisdictions and is generally a means of getting the guilty party convicted of something, even a lesser offense.
    A plea bargain is almost like mitigating for a lesser charge.

    This might not be a perfect system, but it is one that is better than nothing at all.

    You’ve said that, one the person makes the plea it saves the prosecutor and the court substantial amount of money for continuing the case. Though at the end the person being charge may not likely to walk away. But since there is a plea that was entered the case is resolve. Perhaps better for the society and local government.

    The whole plea bargaining issue is currently a subject of considerable debate in Australia because it is believed that the DPP does not take sufficient note of the feelings of victims when drawing up a plea deal. Simply, there are some victims who would be prepared to go the “all or nothing” route. That is, charge the perpetrator with the most serious offense available and then prosecute them. No deals.

    Well that is up to one’s government to draw the statutes in the judiciary system. Nonetheless when a person is charge under certain section of the penal code there are limitation set forth on the sentencing and most of the time the prosecutor will press for the most deterrent sentence. The judge the weighs the evidence, circumstance, attitudes and the sincerity of the mitigation whether the accused has repented (maybe face value) then the judge pass sentence.
    Take for example in Singapore if a person throws a cigarette butt on the floor and when the person is caught he will be charge for littering that has a sentence of between $50 up to $1,000 and or a jail sentence of 6 months.
    When the judge weighs in that this is the person’s first offence, usually they are likely to be fine $100. Second offence is likely to be $500. Third offence is usually $1,000 and if the judge finds the person unrepentant jail sentence could also be passed. Fourth offence, there will no longer be a fine but outright jail sentence depending on the judge’s findings.

    Agreeing to disagree is not being naive. To the contrary, it is an acceptance that I am not going to convince you with my arguments and similarly you are not going to convince me with yours. That is hardly naive, it is reality.

    In reality there is nothing to say on convinced one person to accept or disagree. But you have to accept the fact that it had happened.
    Now lets patronize this lapdog.

    I knew you were chinese though, and Singaporeans have got to be the worst flavour. A jet crashes and nobody flinches, the rate drop 0.001% and you are all crying to sleep.

    Would you care to compare Britain’s performance to Singapore on the overall, after that then convince yourself that Singapore had done very very much better job than Britain in their overall performance.

    What do you resent? Indonesia not facing Krismon while Singapore is sliding down hill?

    Are there any shown if not coming from you. We are referring to a country who had shown to the world that they (Indonesians) were incapable of protecting their own citizen, Please step aside lapdog with your bollocks.

    You talk a load of old fanny. The singers legal system can’t be all that my rittle flend because it hasn’t prevented continued cruelty against maids and helps has it?

    You are touching up on a subject of abuse and that is not discrimination. Can you tell us which instance when a person who was abused by their employer that the employer , when proven guilty, was not indicted? So this must be your load of fanny..what..what your rittle flend?

    In the UK, before we became wet, we used to drop our condemned man properly so as to ensure a clean death. We are not animals, we can kill a man cleanly for his crimes, yet you lot still bungle executions – think on that for a moment.

    Well like what Rob says to each their own. Execution may not be the in thing for Brits and that is why there are that many junkies like you running around Indonesia with your pots and pans…

    A legal system has nothing to do with eventual punishment, a legal system has a duty to determine guilt or otherwise, not to make a condemned man suffer – he will pay the ultimate price.

    That is your opinion and liking, like you hoped to be haphazardly patronize sitting on your white elephant. No one will deny you this right.

    That is quite a chinese trait though, chinese seem to enjoy watching suffering in animals, so why should I expect anything like an ounce of humility from you?

    You may want to choose by saying that this is the Chinese traits. After Zhu Rongji, China’s retired premier, enforce the most deterrent sentence to all those that corrupt the country’s fortune be executed. How did the country faired? Well you have right not to move on and live on your past glory.

    And you wonder why Pribumi’s get pissed with loud arrogant chinese who treat them like trash?

    Did you really saw them doing that? Some yes, but you are referring to all in general and you also deemed that the Chinese have treated the pribumis as trash but you can’t prove any of those! Right? Then what do you called that. I guess you can’t because when the world went by you were busy being patronized.

    Well my friend, I watched you all head for Singers and Bali during the last Krismon, why was that?

    What Krismon? What is Krismon? Are you referring to the exodus that happened in May 1998? If so. Didn’t your government issued travel warnings for bums like you to avoid going to Indonesia. If that is the case don’t you think it is the right of the Chinese Indonesia to flee the country during the period of turmoil. Oh yes…you bule always enter the picture are situation is safe then brag about your achievements and the false pretence. I suppose you are only using a pen name and not your actual name. I am suggesting you change your name to an Indonesian name and give up your citizenship in favor of the Green Garuda.

    Frightened that the pembantu’s husbnad may want to get even for feeding her table scraps and treating her like a dog?

    Then the furthest you went is no further than your own backyard.
    The sooner dinosaurs like you get real and change your attitudes the better, until them,

    look over your shoulder friend, and get the paint ready for the “milik pribumi” daubed on the front door come the next judgement day.

    Right, this is what Indonesian were waiting for. Waiting for people like you to enter the country handing out rupiahs to them and instigated the Pribumis to continue their hatred with your propaganda.

    That many incident and things that I had predicted had came true including President would win and elected and Jusuf Kall not being elected. The Indonesian economic situations on the rupiahs. Let me tell you this. Do you think this will happened again? Answer them outright without holding back anything. You are SAD. I won’t tell you the consequence and see if you are able to reply other than propagating.

    And you had the bloody cheak to say I didn’t understand. Hahaha, get that paint ready brother hitachi.

    Understand what happened during the last riot before you continue and this is an advice to a haphazardly patronize whore. And you are not my brother so don’t bother to brother me.

    Unfortunately there are people like Dragonwall who just cannot do that – I’d very much doubt that he has been a victim of anti-chinese’ism, and if he has, I can quite understand why. I also feel like crashing my becak into his merc – form a line now, nice and orderly

    Does these shows the ignorance in you. Do I really care about that. I have the wrld of reason not to care. So get ready to the becak and my merc is coming.
    But before that I hoped you are all dressed up to be patronize haphazardly.

  13. avatar Suryo Perkoso says:

    Dragonwall Says:

    August 17th, 2009 at 10:57 am
    With your intellect you seemed to be drawn into someone’s fantasy.

    Why would I want to refer that to you other than referring to the guy that felt patronized with his anti climax remarks and celebrating HUT RI..

    Well you said that right when someone waiting in line with his becak getting ready to ra into my merc when i come by as the person who takes his ball home when he does not get his way.

    Ha.ha.ha. and you too a nice day.

    And why shouldn’t I say “MERDEKA” and “DIRGAHAYU RI” ??
    Just why shouldn’t I? This is a forum about Indonesia, not about you and your nasty little sore that won’t heal.

    Just out of interest, you aren’t Himawan are you?

  14. avatar ET says:

    Dragonwall said

    In Indonesia if you are a Chinese and even though your car is being hit by another car driven by a pribumi you are bound to be persecuted whether or not the police is present. At the end of the day the Chinese guy will be asked to pay for damage and bribe the police. Whereas for the pribumi you think it yourself.

    Don’t turn it into an exclusive Pribumi vs Chinese question. The same thing happens whether you are a bule, a negro or whatever race you belong to that isn’t pribumi. The rationale behind it is “you actually are not one of us so you don’t belong here. If you wouldn’t have been here the accident wouldn’t have happened. Cough up, mister.”

    Rob said

    To each his own. The prosecution of these kids was wrong. It could have been dealt with, if it needed to be dealt with, by talking to and warning these kids and their parents. It did not require them to be detained, and it did not require a trial. The spirit of the arrest and prosecution seems, at least to me, to be against the spirit of the law. If this case shows anything outside of the immediate prosecution of the children involved, then it is that law enforcement in Indonesia obviously have nothing better to do like catching real criminals committing real crimes.

    Sure the prosecution of these kids was wrong for anyone who has his head straight on his shoulders. But like you said: “to each his own” which means in this case islamic teachings about gambling supersede common sense. These kids were sentenced because Islam says so.

    Gambling is not just a matter of Sharia Law. Mate, get a grip. This is not Muslim vs. Christian thing. These kids were not prosecuted because of their religion or some introduction by stealth of Sharia Law. They were gambling in the sense of the definition that is in the law. However, the Child Protection Law would suggest that a trial should have been an option of last resort.

    C’mon Rob. As a lawyer you seem to put the law on a pedestal but you forget that laws are introduced by lobbying and are subject to stealthily ideological wheeling and dealing before they pass into bills. How else would you describe what went on during the deliberations of the pornografi monster? Don’t try to pretend that Sharia had nothing to do with it.

  15. avatar Rob says:

    @ ET…

    I hardly think that my comments would be classed as putting law on a pedestal. However, sometimes, at least in my humble opinion, the problem is not the law (regulation) but rather the enforcement.

    The pornografi law was indeed influenced by a strong Muslim lobby. I was not arguing that laws and regulations were not, are not, or have never been influenced by Islamic teachings.

    My point, just because gambling is illegal does not necessarily mean that it is illegal because of sharia-ization of the Indonesian regulatory framework. I wonder if there are other countries where gambling is illegal or restricted to certain areas that are not predominantly Muslim?

    It is interesting that you suggest I am pretending. It has been a long time since anyone has pegged me as a pretender when it comes to Indonesian law. Oh well!

  16. avatar Suryo Perkoso says:

    Don’t turn it into an exclusive Pribumi vs Chinese question. The same thing happens whether you are a bule, a negro or whatever race you belong to that isn’t pribumi. The rationale behind it is “you actually are not one of us so you don’t belong here. If you wouldn’t have been here the accident wouldn’t have happened. Cough up, mister.”

    And I had someone say that I didn’t have an understanding of Indonesia – hahahaha. I’ll be buggered if I fall for that old twaddle – if they hit me they pay, simple as that. First goes the SIM and the STNK, if no result after that a policeman will collect the BPKB.
    Talk about green – you guys fall for that crap? this is Indonesia, not Yemen where that rationale applies. Learn the language and grow a set – because we are guest, doesn’t mean we have to be walked over.

    Sure the prosecution of these kids was wrong for anyone who has his head straight on his shoulders. But like you said: “to each his own” which means in this case islamic teachings about gambling supersede common sense. These kids were sentenced because Islam says so.

    No they weren’t, read the story, they were arrested, detained and released without charge – agreed, a month later. What has islam got to do with that? It was purely a police matter, and if a mont in gaol wasn’t enough of a punishment, I don’t know what was.
    I believe that Rob makes the same point – it would be like saying that a hanged murderer in the UK (when we had the balls to do it) was hanged in the name of God, that certainly was never the case. The kids needed little more than a clip around the ear and taking home. They certainly didn’t get off lightly.

  17. avatar ET says:

    What has islam got to do with that? It was purely a police matter, and if a mont in gaol wasn’t enough of a punishment, I don’t know what was.

    The kids needed little more than a clip around the ear and taking home. They certainly didn’t get off lightly.

    They certainly didn’t. If it wasn’t because of religion then the question remains why keep a bunch of kids a month in gaol, put them on trial and find them guilty – even without punishment – for something a normal brain would consider a game instead of a misdemeanor. Especially in Tangerang with its shariah by-laws.

  18. avatar Lairedion says:

    This thread looks unsurprisingly familiar….

  19. avatar Rob says:

    @ Lairedion…

    Really? 😀

  20. avatar Oigal says:

    Is it time for me to join in yet..seems to a degenerated to a level of basic insult and inane hyperbole?

  21. avatar Odinius says:

    Can I join?

    You guys all suck. So do your opinions.

  22. avatar diego says:

    Odinius, nice try…, but you suck at throwing basic insult. Only one person can do that right, the guy :P.

  23. avatar dragonwall says:

    And why shouldn’t I say “MERDEKA” and “DIRGAHAYU RI” ?? Just why shouldn’t I?

    You are beginning to sound like a banci .ha.ha..ha.no wonder..

    This is a forum about Indonesia, not about you and your nasty little sore that won’t heal.

    Oh yeah, the sore must first heal before anything can go forward gear for further discussion on prevention.
    A forum is about the topic concern and that is what had happened before, what is happening now and what would be the best possible steps to ensure such things does not happened again. And you were bitching with you nasty little sore after being patronize and felt the whole world owes you a living just because you are a Brit.

    Just out of interest, you aren’t Himawan are you?

    Oh..Maybe.. Who Knows. Had he been on your watch out list of patrons?

    Don’t turn it into an exclusive Pribumi vs Chinese question. The same thing happens whether you are a bule, a negro or whatever race you belong to that isn’t pribumi.

    No on is turning it into an exclusive Pri vs Chinese topics. Up to this very moment it had not been a Pribumi vs Chinese, it is a discussion about the legal system Indonesia choose to adopt instead of having a legal system for all to follow. Coincidentally it is the case of 1+1=5 and no longer = 2.
    Case 1. A Pribumi get caught they are dealing with police, who are pri, being charge under certain section coupled with sharia laws (they were trying so very hard to have them implemented in Jakarta). So what is the outcome.
    Case 2. A Chinese get caught they are dealing with police, who are pri, being charge under certain section coupled with sharia laws. So what will be the outcome.
    I would like to consider you being too selfish because your are thinking this is something against the pri.

    The rationale behind it is “you actually are not one of us so you don’t belong here. If you wouldn’t have been here the accident wouldn’t have happened. Cough up, mister.”

    Right so that n one wll ver bring up such a topic? I am not one of you and that makes me a little more different than you. Better cough good because H1N1 can get people being irrational and little wonder you are playing the blame game. Must be a disease.
    These kids were sentenced because Islam says so.

    If so, then don’t you think they were trying to enforce the Sharia Law in Jakarta?

    Don’t try to pretend that Sharia had nothing to do with it.

    So it’s Sharialization on a Civilization that was taken by Temptation and starts the Intimidation beginning with Discrimination followed by Persecution and then the Annhilation which they called it Democratization. Ha.ha. rap a little for the HUT RI.

    My point, just because gambling is illegal does not necessarily mean that it is illegal because of sharia-ization of the Indonesian regulatory framework.

    After rapping I get a little confused.

    I wonder if there are other countries where gambling is illegal or restricted to certain areas that are not predominantly Muslim?

    Oh yeah.. Malaysia in Kelantan.

    And I had someone say that I didn’t have an understanding of Indonesia – hahahaha. I’ll be buggered if I fall for that old twaddle – if they hit me they pay, simple as that.

    Yeah that was what you were hoping for. Didn’t I say pots and pans? I ought to mean you started smoking pots then waiting for someone to hit you then you bring out your pan… But you lose you pants.

    First goes the SIM and the STNK, if no result after that a policeman will collect the BPKB.

    So you are bringing your pans there? Don’t forget your pants.

    No they weren’t, read the story, they were arrested, detained and released without charge – agreed, a month later. What has islam got to do with that? It was purely a police matter, and if a mont in gaol wasn’t enough of a punishment, I don’t know what was.

    No wonder people who only has suc a low mentality will take things for granted.

    I believe that Rob makes the same point – it would be like saying that a hanged murderer in the UK (when we had the balls to do it) was hanged in the name of God, that certainly was never the case. The kids needed little more than a clip around the ear and taking home. They certainly didn’t get off lightly.

    Do you think Rob meant that?

    They certainly didn’t. If it wasn’t because of religion then the question remains why keep a bunch of kids a month in gaol, put them on trial and find them guilty – even without punishment – for something a normal brain would consider a game instead of a misdemeanor. Especially in Tangerang with its shariah by-laws

    Therefore I said people become so ignorant by thinking religion has nothing to do with this. And instead thinking this is a Pribumi vs Christian or Chinese affairs. They were trying to enforce in Jakarta but simply cannot find a way to do so.

    Is it time for me to join in yet..seems to a degenerated to a level of basic insult and inane hyperbole?

    This happens to people who talks after his pots. He already tell us , (Oh mean me) not to patronize him. Ngak Laris Mulai Ngaco. Don’t forgett to pay pajak pelacuran.

    Can I join?
    You guys all suck. So do your opinions.

    It might be even more interesting.

  24. avatar Odinius says:

    Okay, let me try again, this time going for the “random troll” style:

    YuO pipol are all the GOAT that hte moslem like the christin in erope but Indonesian is thje CHines man who find the GOAT liek bule for indonesian girl hahahaha suk GOAT balls

    Improving?

  25. avatar dragonwall says:

    So the insult thrower appears at last placing his best punch. Right you have the rights to throw insults. No one else does.

  26. avatar Suryo Perkoso says:

    He is an Indonesian pretending to be a singaporean, he used to own an apotek in Tanah Abang if I’m not very much mistaken – isn’t that right Himsy?

  27. avatar dragonwall says:

    Hi ya, no wonder I nearly forgot you came by and bought antibiotic for the syphyllis, the Zovirax for your HSV and the cough syrup for you H1N1.

    Bollocks like you needs to learn moe before making any sort of remark like that. Someone may have mistaken that and have the Apotek burnt down..

    More potzs please..

  28. avatar Suryo Perkoso says:

    Lupus pilum mutat, non mentem.

  29. avatar diego says:

    Dragie, don’t worry, when you no longer have anyone to befriend you, I’ll be there. Chill.

  30. avatar Suryo Perkoso says:

    I wonder if I can find the advert for his rittle shop, where he wanted a pharmacist to work, but wouldn’t accept a Muslim –

    Get that paint ready Himsy – “Milik Pribumi”

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