96 Comments on “Densus 88 Raids, Noordin (Not) Dead”

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1. Odinius Says:
   August 31st, 2009 at 7:25 am

   Point of historical fact:

   The North Vietnamese (and Viet Cong) were aligned with the Soviet Union, not China. This pissed the Chinese off to no end, and led them to invade Vietnam in 1979.

2. dragonwall Says:
   August 31st, 2009 at 10:11 am

   The Chinese were pissed off also supported the Congs and called the American as Paper Tiger.

   And

   Nice bitching, Dragonwall. You’ve summed up your point of view very succinctly in the last paragraph.

   You mean I am bitching and

   Pity you strayed off the topic without informing us what you think the “truth” is.

   So what is the truth. Wasn’t that all the truth! G30S PKI and the Memoir by Suharto tells conflicting details and foreign media were only speculating and yet in some part of the Memoir Shuharto was unable to provide exact details of the coup.

   I am of the opinion that because there was a Anti Chinese sentiment and that China is a communist country and that makes all Chinese tin Indonesia o be communist elements supported by the MI6 baed in Singapore at that time and the CIA 5000 hit list given to Sarwo Eddhie Walujo for execution.

   I can agree if you say I have yet the solution, but the truth is spelt all over. Perhaps I might not be willing to provide things such as a solution for one simple reason. Bitching people only wants their view heard. To show their expertise in what they are writing. Ruling politician won’t be bothered to take the necessary action as long as those involves kept the money coming into their bank account. That is why those culprit and mass murderers walked freely and roam political arena like another walk in the park.

   They even nominate themselves for the Pilpres. Even Tommy Soeharto wants to be the Boss of Golkar. 2012 revival.

   The one thing about Indonesians is that they are easily manipulated and the lure of money makes it more tempting to be part of it rather than self conscious. Further boosted by religious influence and placing the importance of religion in the Indonesian political arena as well as departments makes it even more difficult to have a permanent solution towards those problems in Indonesia.

   Indonesian religious leaders says that they are not involved in the bombings and yet investigation show that son of religious leaders were involved supported byt Arab elements. So what does that meant.

   Money, Manipulation, Influence.

   In todays Indonesia many Indonesians have became literate enough to push Indonesia to the frontier of understanding in term of democracy and self conscious and yet many choose to ignore because of their literacy making them unwilling to better educate the less educated to refrain from being easily influenced. This is perhaps because the majority are poor beyond the apprehension of the Indonesian Government.

   I bet you.. The next round you will see a lot of new faces from Golkar backed by old cadres with plenty of cash to throw around. If SBY is not careful he could be in a lot of trouble placing his Presidency in jeopardy.

3. dragonwall Says:
   August 31st, 2009 at 10:18 am

   Oh one thing. The invason is because the Chinese was pissed off due to the border conflict when he Congs were firing at the Chinese. Warnings were given to them but no one heeded and that makes the Chinese WALK OVER Vietnam. That was one of the largest concentration of humans used in a war ti teach the Vietnamese a lesson.

   The earlier one I am referring to is prior to this incident.

4. Odinius Says:
   September 2nd, 2009 at 8:45 am

   Better check your history books again, Dragonwall. By 1970, the Khmer Rouge were China’s main local client; North Vietnam and the Viet Cong, were the Soviet Union’s. As soon as North Vietnam looked like it was going to force a US withdrawal, China started trying to rope the US into an alliance of convenience aimed at containing Soviet hegemony in ex-Indochina.

   …and China did no invade because of Vietnamese firing across the border, but because in 1978, Vietnam signed a massive military pact with the USSR, and in 1979 Vietnam forcibly removed China’s genocidal clients in Cambodia. Then China sent its troops over the Vietnamese border, murdered a bunch of civilians, and burned northern agricultural lands.

   What’s interesting is that the Vietnamese have largely forgiven the French and Americans for what they did, though not forgotten. China is another story. I don’t think Vietnam will ever really forgive China for that stab in the back.

5. sighjay Says:
   September 2nd, 2009 at 12:01 pm

   I don’t think Vietnam will ever really forgive China for that stab in the back.

   But to be fair the bad blood between China and the Vietnamese people goes back far further than that stab, and far, far further than the French colonial period.

6. Odinius Says:
   September 2nd, 2009 at 10:46 pm

   Yes it does, and suspicion of China’s hegemonic designs (based on history) almost certainly informed Ho Chi Minh’s decision to gravitate towards the Soviets rather than the Chinese.

   During the First Indochina War–with France–Ho Chi Minh turned down offers of assistance from China with this witty rejoinder:

   I’d rather smell French sh*t for five more years than eat Chinese sh*t for the rest of my life.

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