300 – Achmad & Ross Insult Duel

May 19th, 2009, in Opinion, by

The long wait is over, Achmad & Ross finally face off in 300.

Insultathon

  • 3 days
  • 3 rounds
  • 300 words

Achmad and Ross face off.

The Voting

Who Won?

  • Ross (50%, 9 Votes)
  • Achmad (50%, 9 Votes)

Total Voters: 18

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147 Comments on “300 – Achmad & Ross Insult Duel”

  1. avatar Achmad Sudarsono says:

    On Islamists: they wanted the VP seat and overestimated their position. Simple as that.

    On 1997-1999: that was re-regulation, dummy, the biggest nationalization in financial history, something like $70 billion, exactly what Mr. Boediono and his kawans were warning about the 10 years previously.

    They didn’t put on capital controls like Malaysia, but the government under IBRA took over more than 80 percent (more even?), of the banks. Then they flogged as much as possible, including Mandiri in 2003.

    Seksi Friend, 1998-2003 a case in point: Western economics tempered with reality of policy making. Too subtle for Ross, (frothing at the mouth), to get. Seriously, Reds ? Commies ? No wonder he’s out of politics.

  2. avatar Odinius says:

    All the talk these days of “socialism” is just downright funny. It’s a word bandied about with as little substance as “neoliberalism.”

  3. avatar Astrajingga says:

    Sadly you’re right, Odinius. What’s really left in Indonesian socialism nowadays?

  4. avatar Odinius says:

    Nothing much that I can see, but it’s no different here. “Socialism” and “neoliberalism” are, more often than not, tags politicians attach to political platforms they oppose, and meant to stifle actual discussion of their substance.

  5. avatar treespotter says:

    some of the presidential candidates are openly talking about nationalizations and debt renegotiation and defaulting on foreign debts and WTO obligations. These people looked to Chavez for ideals and looked to China for credit rating.

    How far left do you need?

    Re. Nationalizations. I begged to differ. What was done by BPPN/IBRA was not at all a nationalization – as you well pointed out, these horrible creatures and positively toxic assets were divested by 2003, tho some carcasses remains to this day.

    Along with the whole mess came a string of new regulations – some new, some old but with modification – to better minimize the exposure of the banking sector in the over all economy. Re-regulation or de-regulation, whatveryouwannacallit, doesn’t really matter.

    I consider it deregulation that it was in a sense an enormous step for Indonesia to open its banking sector to the foreign investment – allowing foreign owned banks operation, capital markets, etc. The banks were never really nationalized, they were rescued by the governments because otherwise they would’ve burned.

    With most of the partly public enterprises (public companies with government as majority shareholder), it was actually the parliament that was bickering about the pace of privatization – most often the sitting governments (including SBY’s present one) is keen on a faster privatization, but was opposed, somehow, by the ‘people’.

    Who says socialism is dead?

    Why is NOBODY talking about the f**king neocons?

    Also, Where is ROSS???

  6. avatar Odinius says:

    treespotter said:

    some of the presidential candidates are openly talking about nationalizations and debt renegotiation and defaulting on foreign debts and WTO obligations. These people looked to Chavez for ideals and looked to China for credit rating.

    How far left do you need?

    There’s nothing inherently “left” in credit defaults or nationalizations. To put it another way, it’s not socialist, it’s statist. Right wing regimes can be as statist as left wing regimes. Similarly, there’s nothing inherently “right” about liberalization. Liberalism was, at its inception, a democratic and inherently redistributive ideology critiquing the oligarchic nature of mercantilism.

    Nationalization is a case in point. All that means, at its most basic, is that the government runs the enterprise. Left/right comes into play when you talk about what happens to the money made. Does it go to the managers and private partners (e.g. Medo or Unocal for Pertamina) that actually make the enterprise work? Or are assets redistributed from the managerial class and foreign investors and given to the masses? Usually it’s the former, though the politicians will pretend it’s the latter as they try to drum up support for it.

    Why is NOBODY talking about the f**king neocons?

    Probably because they are not in power.

  7. avatar Achmad Sudarsono says:

    Seksi Mr. Treespotter Yth.,

    True, the state didn’t take them over to keep them forever. So it wasn’t a 1958 Soekarno-style nationalization. But Seksi Friend, I’m not sure what we’re arguing about.

    Our friend Ross is talking about outright communism. He’s never even logically dissected the failings of marxist economics or talked about why a command-control central economy doesn’t work. He just rants and raves about “Reds” like the General in Peter Seller’s “Dr. Strangelove.”

    Are you talking about the strain of economic nationalism in Indonesia that favors coops, BUMNs, that sometimes pops up in places like Rizal Ramli’s Econit ?

    Also, this conversation might be better at another thread. Can you ask Pak Boediono about what the government will do to protect our UFO technology ?

  8. avatar Oigal says:

    Right wing regimes can be as statist as left wing regimes.

    In fact, as each wing moves further in one direction or the other pretty soon they stop being wings and turn into a circle and you cannot tell the difference (Ok you can, look for the term “Democratic” in the official country title and you can be pretty sure its both far left and undemocratic).

    Political fantical Islam (or other religions in other countries) and communism and all the other failed socail experiments owe their very existance to the desperation of the people. Surprised at the growing left influence or rise of fantics? Check out the provinces with land and resource theft by the elite (usually a certain ethnic group..surprise surprise) that makes the dutch look like the Mother Theresa Charity Assoc. Democracy (a loose term here) has done sweet FA for the average Indonesian outside of Jakarta and even then only a very small %.

    Even that would not be so bad but with todays communications the poorest villager can see the contempt with which he is viewed by the elite. Going to be an interesting decade, this could well be the tipping point election.

    BTW. Despite the big Ross’s assertions I am not a leftist (in fact far from it) but certainly not surprised at the rumblings..

  9. avatar Achmad Sudarsono says:

    Oigs,

    In keeping with the spirit of the thread — care to lob any insults ?

    An idea for Pak Patoengs — this could be the insult-a-thread, a virtual sparring ring, where people can face off and insult each other.

    ie, if an exchange gets too heated, it could be moved to this insult-a-thread. Oigal and Farah’s recent exchange, for example, might be moved here.

    Thoughts anyone ?

  10. avatar David says:

    Very good idea Achmad.

  11. avatar Oigal says:

    Oigal and Farah’s recent exchange

    Hoy!.. I thought I was more than restrained in that little encounter.

    Insults..nagh.. To be interesting they have to show some research and humour in the Winston Churchillisk fashion. Telling people they have been throwing up at the Blok or plain name calling just demonstrates a lack of imagination and worse the lack of a suitable rebuttal. I much prefer to make fun of peoples ideas and silly logic and tis such a target rich environment.

    As the great man once said:

    “When the eagles are silent, the parrots begin to jabber.”

  12. avatar Achmad Sudarsono says:

    Oigal,

    Well, it’s been a while, so I’ll have to get you warmed up:

    It’s a shame you keenly take to jousting a girl (Farah), but you’re not up to the challenge with an insult veteran like me.

    Then again, you did serve in the Australian army and follow a sport where boys run around chasing other boys in sweaty short shorts.

  13. avatar Odinius says:

    Oigal said:

    In fact, as each wing moves further in one direction or the other pretty soon they stop being wings and turn into a circle and you cannot tell the difference (Ok you can, look for the term “Democratic” in the official country title and you can be pretty sure its both far left and undemocratic).

    Absolutely. Same is true of “loose” authoritarian regimes like the Orde Baru and Tito’s Yugoslavia, regardless of “left” or “right” orientation. Not really all that different: some censorship but not total; gaudy but unstable development underwritten by Western loans; development of a political class of bureacrats; central role for military; a good deal of freedom of movement, but not total freedom of movement; fixed elections; etc.

    But in the spirit of

    An idea for Pak Patoengs — this could be the insult-a-thread, a virtual sparring ring, where people can face off and insult each other.

    …I also feel obliged to refer to you as a you shrimp-on-barbie-eating, mullet-wearing dingo-herder. 🙂

  14. avatar oigal says:

    Oh My…

    We really have to work on youse blokes, Shrimp is a term used in commercials twenty years ago for yanks and would be yanks..aka most of Indonesia middle mall educated shallows (that would be you Ody). We don’t herd, thats Arabs, Indonesian wanna be arabs and goats you are thinking of. Dingoes don’t need to be herded anyway they are attracted by tractors ..in particular Chamberlains. Why would I wear a fish anyway troutmouth? Although I must admit talking to you and Assmad is simlair to enteraining a couple of blind mullets.. agian no point and not very healthy.

    Posse..another term so loved by Assmad is also a septic term (septic tank= yank…I’ll help you with the tough one for a little while). Meanwhile AM was it the Army and was it Australia..careful with the research there sport?

    Nothing really wrong from my point of view with jousting a girl its better than prodding a knight and far more socially acceptable.

    Ok..you got the idea yet..?? tHOUGH AND EFFORT OK

  15. avatar timdog says:

    Oh my goodness… it was worth braving a dodgy internet connection 3500 metres up in the trans-Himalaya to read my way through this.
    Wish I hadn’t missed the vote. Though general appreciation of seksiness would have compelled me to vote for Achmad in any case, Ross actually did rather well (starting out from a weaker position as he did).
    Still, I think oigal ought to get an honourary position on the insultathon podium for the last contribution….
    Marvellous stuff gentlemen, keep it up!

  16. avatar Achmad Sudarsono says:

    Nice, Pak Oigal, very nice. Perhaps you can be my coach next time. : P only I don’t use “posse,” possum.

  17. avatar Achmad Sudarsono says:

    btw. (Seksi) Pak Timdog Yth., lovely to hear from you. What are you doing up there ? Perhaps a photo-dispatch, making comparisons with Indonesia ? To draw links, perhaps you could reflect on:

    – Tibet under occupation vs East Timor under occupation – specially how the population feels about the trade off between membership of an empire and colonization ?

    – Is China getting more liberal ? How’s the vibe in Tibet (if you’re going there) ?

    – General thoughts on missing Indonesia, reflections from the road.

    Always nice to expand horizons, ‘specially in the clear air of the world’s highest mountain range.

    x o.

  18. avatar oigal says:

    Tsk Tsk Tsk..

    Now if you are going to run an insult fest then traditional values would call upon you to be honest ol Assmad. Surely you recall telling me that posse was term used in Australia when I correct your poor use of oz slang on previous occasion ..or a little to much betel nut with wives down on fishing bank washing the sarong?

  19. avatar Achmad Sudarsono says:

    Don’t get it (Seksi) Pak Oigals, Yth.,

    First posse is Septic (as in Yank), now it’s Australian. Bingung (maybe because of too much betel nut). Such is the life of a simple melayu man, the kind you love to beat down…

  20. avatar oigal says:

    Yes Posse is Septic..sorry its just not worth a special search to find the reference where you tried to convince me posse was an oz term..speaking of “not worth a special search” is that not the phrase your mother used when seeking a partner to improve the gene pool.

    Melayu Man..is that like a quinella of opposites in your case although beat down has its appeal where you are concerned.

    Oh,,,thanks TD. nice to be appreciated…

  21. avatar Lairedion says:

    speaking of “not worth a special search” is that not the phrase your mother used when seeking a partner to improve the gene pool.

    Ouch, I like that one….

    Well, well, another duel has been started. Patung, can you open voting again?

  22. avatar Achmad Sudarsono says:

    (Seksi), Pak Lairedion Yth.,

    Kudos to Oigal – that’s the spirit of this thread.

    @ All, a change to the nomenclature of…Seksiness.

    From henceforward, only Pak Patoengs will be… Seksi.

    Senior members will be (Seksi)… Yth.,

    Others just Yth.,

  23. avatar Lairedion says:

    Thanks Achmad for allowing me to be a Senior member but we might wanna ask some of our senior female (seksi) members like Farah or FMF to determine who’s seksi.

    Awaiting your response to Oigal….

  24. avatar Achmad Sudarsono says:

    @ (Seksi) Pak Lairedion Yth.,

    Seksiness is more a state of mind and being than actual sexiness, although there is a lot of crossover. Understanding the difference takes a Zen state of mind and alot of...Seksiness. Also there are that cohort of people, generally with better taste, who bat for the other team who aren’t female.

    As for Oigal, my whole personality is a challenge to him. Me, (seksi, berani, kreatif, melayu), him, well, the less said the better. Besides, I am still recovering after my high-profile sparring with (Seksi) (though not that Seksi), Pak Ross Yth.

  25. avatar Oigal says:

    Ah sometimes its like shooting fish in a barrel (well blind mullets anyway)

    my whole personality is a challenge to him

    I thought actually insulting religions was out of order in the insult fest? AM having a personality you would have to take that on blind faith as there is certainly no physical or moral case for it otherwise.

    Oh well, I suppose this passes my day off.. I could always be sitting in the top paddock picking dags from my arse, although that would take far more thought ..

    🙂 see be careful what you wish for

    As for Farah..nagh she is colour obsessed, I would oppressed and discrimated against

  26. avatar Achmad Sudarsono says:

    (Seksi), Pak Oigal Yth.,

    Yes, I think that’s reasonable, family members, religions, mental handicaps. Politics, personality, let alone taste, obviously ok.

    I think calling people “retards” as insults is not on as I think people with such setbacks often have to show what we call heroism as a matter of daily course. I’m also not big on blatant prejudice (unless its towards bules), including the usual list of suspects.

    But as for the most recent insults to me, again, very nice.

  27. avatar ET says:

    ie, if an exchange gets too heated, it could be moved to this insult-a-thread. Oigal and Farah’s recent exchange, for example, might be moved here.

    Thoughts anyone ?

    Will there be any comments left in the other threads?

  28. avatar Achmad Sudarsono says:

    (Seksi) Pak ET, Yth.,

    Insult-a-corner, supposed to be an aid, not a hindrance to discussion & debate. Seksi Mr. Patoengs has proven a steadfast umpire, so I think we’d just trust it to him.

    Peace & Merdeka !

    Achmad.

  29. avatar Odinius says:

    Oigal said:

    We really have to work on youse blokes, Shrimp is a term used in commercials twenty years ago for yanks and would be yanks..aka most of Indonesia middle mall educated shallows (that would be you Ody). We don’t herd, thats Arabs, Indonesian wanna be arabs and goats you are thinking of. Dingoes don’t need to be herded anyway they are attracted by tractors ..in particular Chamberlains. Why would I wear a fish anyway troutmouth? Although I must admit talking to you and Assmad is simlair to enteraining a couple of blind mullets.. agian no point and not very healthy.

    Are you implying that Crocodile Dundee and the oversized-bintang-wife-beater-wearing, bemulleted masses of Kuta lied to me? I had rather thought those were Australia’s principle cultural exports!

  30. avatar Oigal says:

    Crocodile Dundee and the oversized-bintang-wife-beater-wearing, bemulleted masses of Kuta lied to me?

    Well probably although those masses you met in Kuta where probably Javanese expats doing what they do best to the provinces. We all know what Java’s best exports are…(nagh too easy).

    You are not Balinese I assume? What were you doing in Kuta anyway Odinius, offering up sexual favours or just pimping?

    (Ok, this was a bit over the top therein lies the risk when you cast the net to include others of race or origin, the generalisation can come back many fold.. the aim perhaps should be to offend me, that is perhaps the challenge the targeted insult)

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