Bromo Tengger Converts to Islam

Mar 2nd, 2009, in News & Issues, by Patung

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227 Comments on “Bromo Tengger Converts to Islam”

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ET Says:
March 20th, 2009 at 10:45 am
@ Mohammed

re your Yusuf Estes link.

What kind of crap is this? Do you take us for sheep? If you have nothing better to do than give links with childish nonsense from the bible belt, you shouldn’t have converted at all. The only thing I recall from your pathetic story is that you replaced ‘Halleluja’ with ‘Allahu Akbar’.
Patung Says:
March 20th, 2009 at 12:02 pm
When people start quoting Quranic verses on threads, whether to show the good or evil of Islam, I just switch off, because they obviously don’t understand religion in Indonesia so thanks TTT for this

Religion has become THE group identity. It doesnt matter whether the dogma was cruel or not, being with a group is more important. Sad but true.

I hope some people here read it and stop the Quranic stuff and stop linking to sites like prophetofdoom which I have zero tolerance for (and also for their opposite numbers, answeringchristianity, etc).
Burung Koel Says:
March 20th, 2009 at 12:08 pm
But we can still link to Stiff Little Fingers, right?

/hopefully
ET Says:
March 20th, 2009 at 12:38 pm
@ Mr Tic Tac Toe

Thanks for your last post in this thread. It testifies to clever insight. I admit that many Westerners have a tendency to view your country through white coloured glasses and are comparing ripe apples with green passion fruits. Coming of age needs time, also for a nation. But adolescents (pardon the term) sometimes need a close watch and scrutiny. Especially when it relates to the choice of ‘friends’.
I think you know well enough who these so-called ‘friends’ are and what their agenda is.
Oigal Says:
March 20th, 2009 at 12:59 pm
To indonesian like miself, your critic about accepting religious colonization sounds a little bit white-man-burden-ish. Many of us aware of “the problem”, although unable to articulate it in words.

Hi TTT, I think you may have missed my point, probably my fault I was less trying to be critic of religion per sec but asking why Indonesia is not taking the the lead on issues (in the case Islam) or at least confident enough to stand alone without reference to others (again this could apply more broadly but for now talking Islam). Sad tho you have gone from missing the point straight into defensive mode.

As for the term “cultural cringe” and you finding it offensive I offer that up as a demonstration of lacking confidence and going defensive. I really pinched the term from the Australian Political/Social debates, cultural cringe is often used (rightly or wrongly)as reason why Australia still has the Queen as head of state and often tends (in some opinions) to blindly follow other nations lead in foreign affairs (not a postion I agree with but never the less common usage). So don’t flatter yourself the whole world is not about you.

As for the rest of the anti-foreigner rant it remains just that (of course that opens the discussion that until Indonesia opens to doors to real immigration the insular xenophobia will continue). Really is time to grow out of that. I asked (in my opinion) perfectly reasonable questions based on my observations and offered possible reasons.

Now my observations may wrong and reasons for that even more so, particularly as my perspective will naturally be coloured by my upbringing and bench reference point in life. In which case, please attack, defend, build upon destroy as you can with logic. Who knows I may even learn something. But to fall back into the “oh you big mean nasty foreigner” give us a break. Not much discussion group at all if the only thing can be discussed is those things that don’t make you feel uncomfortable.

In closing, if you climbed down from your high horse, you may see rather than talking defeatism.. I was questioning is it not time for Indonesia to be taking more of the lead if not why not?
ET Says:
March 20th, 2009 at 1:01 pm
@ Patung

I fail to see the relation between prophetofdoom and Indonesia other than that prohetofdoom attacks an ideology that unfortunately some are trying to impose as Indonesia’s group identity.
As to group identity TTT in his excellent post also mentioned

Sad but true.
Aluang Anak Bayang Says:
March 20th, 2009 at 9:31 pm
Brother Mr Tic Tac Toe,

Don’t let white ozzie be a burden. We listen and we smile, knowing how Blackies are treated. Few days ago, one was cooked up in the back of a divvy. Blackies aren’t human to these white trashs.
Buyuang Anak Surantieh Says:
March 25th, 2009 at 5:37 pm
I would donate IDR 1 million or 2 to convert back these innocent tenggerese to their mother culture from a dangerous cult called islam.

can someone give me a/c number to remit my cash?
Aluang Anak Bayang Says:
March 26th, 2009 at 12:43 am
Buyuang Anak Surantieh,

Are you from Kalimantan?
schmerly Says:
March 26th, 2009 at 10:51 am
@ AAB..

Blackies aren’t human to these white trashs.

WHAT!!!! well that’s the pot calling the kettle black!! (excuse the pun)
Buyuang Anak Surantieh Says:
March 26th, 2009 at 5:42 pm
@AAB: “buyuang” from kalimanatan? my name says it very clearly, i am buyuang anak surantieh, not too far from bayang.
Aluang Anak Bayang Says:
March 26th, 2009 at 9:32 pm
Buyung is a Dayak (Iban) name, but Buyuang is not. Surantieh is definitely not. Okay, just the arrangement of your name sound Kali native.
Buyuang Anak Surantieh Says:
March 27th, 2009 at 12:45 pm
This is the first time I heard people claim that Buyung is a dayak name.

Buyung is basically a Malay name, used primaly by Malayic ethnic groups, though other Malayo-polynesian may use it as well.

However, if you ask Indonesian to which region/ethnic ‘buyung’ belongs to, I guess at least 70%-80% would say Padang or Minangkabau, since Minangkabau is the most known malayic ethnic in Indonesia, perhaps the biggest in terms of population as well. And, i believe 99% of indonesian will automatically refer ‘buyuang’ to Minangkabau. Are you the 1%?

I just learned that the Dayak iban is actually considered Malayic, though a bit ‘outlier’ compared to other malayic groups. In fact, some call Dayak Iban as Malayic-Dayak…interesting. It seems Dayak iban is dayak heavily influenced by Malay.
Sam Says:
May 8th, 2009 at 4:37 am
One wonders if this is yet another example of exploiting poor non-muslims with limited rights. The Tenggerese are poor people who have retained thier traditional beliefs for centuries, they specifically emigrated to the Bromo region to preserve thier way of life. Yet Muslim elements in particular have sought to convert them. Initially after the foundation of the Indonesian state, Hinduism one of Indonesia’s oldest religions was not recognised, this was the case until 1962. Buddhism, Daoism and Confuciansim suffered a similar restrictions. If a person did not accept Islam or the less known Christianity they were liable to be branded Communists and this resulted in hundreds of thousands of deaths. The Tengger populated areas did not escape and there were many massacres in several settlements. One wonders why such an inferiority complex is exhibited by many Muslims such that it is illegal for muslims to convert from Islam, but it is a free for all for muslims to target anyone. This is the state of affairs across the majority of Muslim dominated countries. Level playin field? Ofcourse not, when you are given different legal rights.
Observato Says:
May 8th, 2009 at 1:46 pm
One wonders if this is yet another example of exploiting poor non-muslims with limited rights.

Limited rights? No. Hinduism is recognized religion and Nyepi is a national holiday.

One wonders why such an inferiority complex is exhibited by many Muslims such that it is illegal for muslims to convert from Islam, but it is a free for all for muslims to target anyone.

In Indonesia you are free to convert from Islam. Things not allowed is exploiting poverty in order to persuade people to convert. Such as using instant mie, paying child education fee, or medical help in exchange of one’s convertion. These are however not the practice of Muslims but common practice upon another religious group.

Even muslims do not conduct research how to convert people, developing methods of conversion etc. Muslims are a bit ‘natural’ in spreading their religion. But other religious group do develop methodology and tricks.

Why muslims are not agressive in evangelizing other people may be because a fact that a muslim even does not know for sure that he/she will be enter paradise or not. Such salvation is a prerogative right of God himself. Muslim also believe that a convertion to Islam is a matter off God will. This is called hidayah or eventual guidance, can not be predicted or orchestrated. What muslims are obliged is to transmit the message to others, not to convert.

Furthermore, dakwah or spreading the message is not obligation to every muslim because it is considered wajib kifayah. By definition wajib kifayah means if a number of muslim do the obligation at a given time, the rest of muslim are not obliged to do so.
Mohinder Says:
May 8th, 2009 at 10:19 pm
I think the law in Indonesia is more related to the conduct of proselytising rather than individuals converting. Ifa Sudewi Chief Judge presiding over the trial of the Bali bombers converted from Islam a decade ago and became Hindu. The Indonesian Ministry of Religious affairs also has indicated that over a couple of decades some 100,000 people had reverted to the Hindu faith of thier own accord. The ministry of Religious affairs as of 2008 estimates there to be around 10 million Hindus in Indonesia.
zekky Says:
July 15th, 2009 at 6:27 pm
by 2050 more than half the world will be Muslim… Islam… is still the fastest growing religion in the world.

You seem to ignore the booming Muslim-to-Christian conversion in the Middle East, hidden only because of fear.