Bromo Tengger Converts to Islam

Mar 2nd, 2009, in News & Issues, by Patung

View the original article here.

227 Comments on “Bromo Tengger Converts to Islam”

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Aluang Anak Bayang Says:
March 16th, 2009 at 8:26 am
@ Endo Hanafi,

Do you know, women even are not allowed to drive in Iran or Arab Saudi?

errrr .. women can drive in Iran.

Mohammed, do you have a baby girl? Will you give your 7 y.o baby girl to a 54 year old man, after he says God give him order to marry your 7 year old baby girl?

If this is ordered by Allah swt, of course Mohammed will obey. Fyi, Mbak Endo, Allah swt also ordered Allah swt to marry his daughter-in-law, which he obliged. Christian God Jehovah impregnanted Mary (Jesus’ mother), what have you got to say about this?
diego Says:
March 16th, 2009 at 8:51 am
And Bhatara Surya impregnanted Dewi Kunti…. The outcome: Karna.

The difference: both Jehovah and Bhatara Surya was decent enough not to fornicate under-aged. While Allah (through Mehmet), well…. we know what happened to Aisha.

Allahuakbar.
Endo Hanafi Says:
March 16th, 2009 at 8:55 am
@AAB,

Christian God Jehovah impregnanted Mary (Jesus’ mother), what have you got to say about this?>>>

I think our topic is about the Tenggers who convert to Islam. Bringing the issue of Christianity is out of topic. The news says, Tenggerians convert to islam, not to Christianity.

I am trying to say to tenggerians that converting to Islam is a bad–very bad–choice. Even without learn Islam closely, one can see from the fruits it bear, nothing but violence, killing, war, and hatred. I know, every religion/belief has extreem followers, but Islam stands out coz their followers who are violent are massive and collosal. Islam teachs violence and hatred. If people are to lazy to read Koran to prove its hatred/violent teachings, they may visit friday prayer at any mosque. They will definitely have a great chance to listen to Islamic preachers full of hatred promoting violence.

Peace
Aluang Anak Bayang Says:
March 16th, 2009 at 10:04 am
@ Endo Hanafi

If people are to lazy to read Koran to prove its hatred/violent teachings, they may visit friday prayer at any mosque. They will definitely have a great chance to listen to Islamic preachers full of hatred promoting violence.

I am puzzled by the above statement. Where are you from?
Mohammed Says:
March 16th, 2009 at 10:11 am
@AAB

I think it is a waste of time trying to convince someone like Endo H. He clearly has a hatred for Muslims and not Islam but he doesn’t understand this. So if he can’t understand his own confusion and misconceptions then I think we won’t be able to help him understand. He is one confused individual.
diego Says:
March 16th, 2009 at 10:44 am
OMG…

Who’s paying you Mohammed, to spend hours in front of your computer, posting lenghty defensive / apologetic messages like that?

We — the kaffirs — will never buy those semitic mumbo jumbo. We know already islam is full of shiite, just by looking at what’s happening in places that have high number of muslims.
Patung Says:
March 16th, 2009 at 10:52 am
He’s just copy-pasting, hence they are deleted.
Burung Koel Says:
March 16th, 2009 at 10:57 am
If read with good translation and historical context in mind…

From what you are saying, and noting the example you gave, this contradicts the claimed universality of the message, does it not? I thought context was for humans. Are you saying the ‘Word of God’ is open to interpretation?
Mohammed Says:
March 16th, 2009 at 11:05 am
Burung Koel don’t misunderstand what the word of God is. It is a universal message. Yes certain verses refer to certain occasions or times however the message is clear from these what one can an cannot do.

The problem here is not the universality of it. It is the fact that people make Islam out to be barbaric and violent when in fact it is not. There are strict guidelines that muslims must abide by.

These commonly misquoted verses tell you what you can and can’t do in these kinds of situations. Not that you can kill any non muslims for any reasons.

So the universality is still preserved even though the topic relates to another time and place.
Burung Koel Says:
March 16th, 2009 at 11:05 am
He’s just copy-pasting, hence they are deleted.

Well, that stuffs up my smart arse remark.

Or puts it out of context…
Mohammed Says:
March 16th, 2009 at 11:09 am
Here you go Burung Koel

link 1
link 2

Now your smart arse remark can stay in context.
ET Says:
March 16th, 2009 at 11:12 am
Lairedion

Yes, she’s doomed. You are too because I haven’t seen you attend last Friday prayer in Masjid An Nur in Denpasar.

No, no, no. I was there, but I was looking for my sandals. Probably stolen again.
ET Says:
March 16th, 2009 at 11:17 am
Mohammed

Before Islam women where being oppressed.

You think so? I thought Khadijah, Mohammed’s first wife, was already a very liberated and wealthy woman before Allah revealed himself to Mohammed. And before that there were even women queens, like Bilqis, as the Queen of Sheba is known in Islamic tradition. She is even mentioned in the koran.
Burung Koel Says:
March 16th, 2009 at 11:20 am
So the universality is still preserved even though the topic relates to another time and place.

That’s a relief. I always prefer to temper my absolutist beliefs with some creativity now and then.
Suryo Perkoso Says:
March 16th, 2009 at 11:20 am
Well that’s not entirely true is it diego? More correctly, those who use Islam as a tool to propogate hate are full of shite. Islam itself is pretty much the same as the other “big” two, down to word for word content, of course that doesn’t mean they aren’t shite either.

Many people are capable of following Islam is a peaceful manner, while those who are intent upon evil would so so in the name of a bag of fish and chips, if they thought it gave justification.

Let Moh take comfort in his faith, and let him have the courtesy not to try and indoctrinate anyone.
Mohammed Says:
March 16th, 2009 at 11:22 am
Are you trying to be funny ET. Just because I said women does not include all women. My point was that the mistreatment of women by men has been around way before Islam. It does not mean that every women is mistreated.

Just like today people still mistreat women in many ways from many backgrounds and religions.

Do you want to know what Islam says about women or what men do. If you want Islams version go here
Suryo Perkoso Says:
March 16th, 2009 at 12:39 pm
How about what you think Moh? are you capable of rational thought with continual recourse to the Qur’an?(as worshipful as it may be).

The knack or so I am led to believe with religion is to use it to enhance ones existance, not to drown it.
BTW, I don’t know your history, but your spelling of “arse” suggests some time in the UK?
Suryo Perkoso Says:
March 16th, 2009 at 12:40 pm
which should have course read “without continual recourse”
Mohammed Says:
March 16th, 2009 at 12:54 pm
Of course I am capable of rational thought without recourse to the Quran. How do you think I get through life, work etc. However the Quran is a guide for humanity. The messages in it are clear and if I didn’t believe in God then I would not turn to the Quran or to Allah.

For example. Rational thought would tell you that it is ok to have premarital relationships, specially in this day and age. The Quran tells you why it is forbidden. Human nature sometimes causes us to be irrational. The Quran is a reminder for us to be rational. For example people commit suicide for all sorts of reasons however the Quran tells us that one who does will go to hell. So not only does it cause us to think rationally it also tells us of a punishment to come if we don’t behave the way we were created to.

As for “arse” I quoted Burung Koel without the quotes. I would say ass normally. I have never been to the UK. I am Australian.
dhea Says:
March 16th, 2009 at 1:03 pm
@ mohammed

Do you want to know what Islam says about women or what men do. If you want Islams version

Just curious if she also read at surah 4:34 I bet she will understand that very clearly.

“Men are (meant to be righteous and kind) guardians of women because God has favored some more than others and because they (i.e. men) spend out of their wealth. (In their turn) righteous women are (meant to be) devoted and to guard what God has (willed to be) guarded even though out of sight (of the husband). As for those (women) on whose part you fear ill-will and nasty conduct, admonish them (first), (next) separate them in beds (and last) beat them. But if they obey you, then seek nothing against them. Behold, God is most high and great. (4:34)

I will predict that usually the answer will be long and dreadfull as seems like the only one who can read is muslim and the rest are just dumb Lol getting old ( like beating the dead beat horse ) and lame answer.
Burung Koel Says:
March 16th, 2009 at 1:06 pm
@ Mohammed

I have been wondering about why it is that you need to display your piety and/or ‘goodness’. I am acquainted with many people of different faiths who see no reason to preach at me or show me their moral credentials. Maybe you can think upon this:

Forget the fairy tales of rewards in heaven and hell for a minute. What are you trying to achieve with your displays of piety? Is it to be liked as a good person? Or is it to be respected for your religious understanding? Are you trying to impress someone (Us? Your teachers? A woman?). Because aren’t they really selfish reasons? How much of what you are doing is being good for the sake of being good and how much is because you think it’s better to appear good? And how can you tell the difference?*

BTW, I don’t know your history, but your spelling of “arse” suggests some time in the UK?

Uh, SP, I started that one. Guilty as charged.

*Been reading too much Dostoevsky, I know.
Mohammed Says:
March 16th, 2009 at 1:14 pm
@dhea

There really is no reason for me to even reply to this but here is what I will say.

Firstly you can find the many refutations to your quoted verse all over the internet so I won’t even bother with this here.

Secondly, I am sure that people like you would have tried to convince this woman and many others by using this verse in order to stop them from accepting Islam. I am sure these women do their research well before they become Muslim. In fact I have never met a non Muslim who converted to Islam that had not read the Quran from cover to cover before they became Muslim and asked all these questions.

To even quote this verse and try to use it to put Islam down shows your agenda is clear.
Mohammed Says:
March 16th, 2009 at 1:18 pm
@Burung Koel

None of the reasons you mentioned is why I do this. The only reason is to stop the lies that people put out about Islam.

So why do people attack Islam and preach against it then. Is it for the reasons you mentioned?
Cukurungan Says:
March 16th, 2009 at 1:20 pm
Just curious if she also read at surah 4:34 I bet she will understand that very clearly.

“Men are (meant to be righteous and kind) guardians of women because God has favored some more than others and because they (i.e. men) spend out of their wealth. (In their turn) righteous women are (meant to be) devoted and to guard what God has (willed to be) guarded even though out of sight (of the husband). As for those (women) on whose part you fear ill-will and nasty conduct, admonish them (first), (next) separate them in beds (and last) beat them. But if they obey you, then seek nothing against them. Behold, God is most high and great. (4:34)

Ephesians 5:22-23
“Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body. Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.”

Ha ha ha ..so what is wrong if we want to beat them or do something else to my belonging
dhea Says:
March 16th, 2009 at 1:25 pm
@ Cakurungan

Ha ha ha ..so what is wrong if we want to beat them or do something else to my belonging

LOL I’m glad that I’m not your wife
Mohammed Says:
March 16th, 2009 at 1:29 pm
@ Cukurungan

The difference here is in the Quran we are the guardians not the owners. Again the word beat hear is translated from and arabic words that means many different things. But you need to go do your research about this don’t take my word for it.
dhea Says:
March 16th, 2009 at 2:14 pm
@ Mohammed

Secondly, I am sure that people like you would have tried to convince this woman and many others by using this verse in order to stop them from accepting Islam. I am sure these women do their research well before they become Muslim. In fact I have never met a non Muslim who converted to Islam that had not read the Quran from cover to cover before they became Muslim and asked all these questions.

I’m so sorry that you assumed that I was try to prevent anyone to convert Islam that’s very sad because I respect everyone to have their own freedom to choose what ever religious to believe including Islam. I know most of them convert to Islam before they read Qur’an cover to cover sound very naif but thats the reality is. I don’t shove anyone what I believe Mr Mohammed. So stop assuming and by the way this just my responses to the article in here and to all of your comment.
Endo Hanafi Says:
March 16th, 2009 at 2:17 pm
@Mohamed,

What you tried to say and explain is what we call “apology” from “apologist”. Trying to water down unequivocal violent message of Koran so that they will not sound so “barbaric”. Unfortunately, in doing so, it even shows more the weaknesses and the non-sense of Koran and Islam.

I sense that you are a good guy originally, please spend more time reading and have your own opinion on something. Do not listen to all links that you copy paste-ed. I feel sorry for your lost soul.

@AAB,

I am an Indonesian. Spent my first 20 years in Aceh and then moved to Jakarta. As the preachers quote surahs or hadits, there is a big chance they will quote one of hatred/violent verses of the Koran. Any mosque will do. Some preachers indeed try to send a peaceful message of Islam, however since the Koran itself is full of hatred and violence, they will not prevail. Koran needs huge massive revisions, and Islam need a total reform to be an acceptable peaceful religion. But why bother to do it? That is Arab regilion anyway, let the Arabs deal with it. Just leave it before it is too late.
Suryo Perkoso Says:
March 16th, 2009 at 2:28 pm
Aluang Anak Bayang Says:

March 16th, 2009 at 8:26 am
If this is ordered by Allah swt, of course Mohammed will obey. Fyi, Mbak Endo, Allah swt also ordered Allah swt to marry his daughter-in-law, which he obliged. Christian God Jehovah impregnanted Mary (Jesus’ mother), what have you got to say about this?

Oh know he didn’t mate, everyone knows it was an immaculate contraption.
Aluang Anak Bayang Says:
March 16th, 2009 at 2:29 pm
Assalamualaikum
Sister Mbak Dhea,

If you are worried about the ‘beating’ part, rest be assured it is only with a small toothbrush.
There is also a wisdom why Allah swt recommended toothbrush because women are valued in Islamic world. The Western world, without guidance from the quran, used fists and karete kicks. Check abused women in the US.

Wasalam.