Dating Indonesian Girls

Apr 4th, 2006, in Girls, IM Posts, Opinion, by

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4,879 Comments on “Dating Indonesian Girls”

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  1. avatar Oigal says:
    July 2nd, 2011 at 8:05 pm

    What do you think the chances are of an “abused” husband successfully lodging an abuse defense, given a similar factual situation?

    You would have to be very naive or very sheltered not to have all to regularly come across the ‘hero” who thinks nothing of giving his wife or gf a backhander. Have a listen to the girls in between gropes, they will soon point out the heros and dogs all too often performance related. Personally, have no time for the cowards (hardly takes courage when little chance of getting a flogging in return) and treat them with the contempt they deserve.

  2. avatar Lairedion says:
    July 2nd, 2011 at 8:16 pm

    While the liberal west shrills about the treatment of women in some Islamic states, they remain strangely muted about the gross injustices visited upon men in the west.

    Exactly the reaction I expected after my latest comment. A bitter and insecure man whinging on supposedly shrieking feminists and paralleling the Western men’s position in society with that of women in Islamic countries.

    How pathetic is that?

  3. avatar Oigal says:
    July 2nd, 2011 at 8:40 pm

    While the liberal west shrills about the treatment of women in some Islamic states, they remain strangely muted about the gross injustices visited upon men in the west.

    Indeed, that would have to go straight to the special bizarre comments section, I am sure the webmaster has for his book he will print one day.

  4. avatar Stevo says:
    July 3rd, 2011 at 3:44 am

    Its amusing and predictable how my defense of males has been distorted and re-packaged as denigration of women. It is no such thing. I have spoken out against double standards and mistreatment of people, not for mistreatment of anybody.

    You guys are truly the brain washed product of the west.

    No where have I said its ok to treat women badly. You will not find that anywhere in my posts. Nice try with the straw man approach Oigal.

    Lairedion is clearly out of his depth and can only produce personal insults. He seems like the sort of guy women tend to get bored with. He tries to say the right things but lacks heart. Women see through that.

    I am well aware that many sexual assaults go unreported. Especially in places like Indonesia. Nor have I defended rapists in anyway. Are you suggesting its ok to take legal proceedings against innocent men because some guilty ones walk free? (and you think Sharia law is flawed !! )

    As for the abuse thing, you have a very narrow view of it. The courts have often stated that psychological abuse is as bad, or worse, than physical abuse. (of course only when a male does it). I have no idea why Oigal started on about “backhanders” in relation to that point.

    My knowledge of this does not come from fat groping drunks at bars, or any of the other reliable sources Oigal draws so heavily and frequently upon.

    I have seen the law in operation numerous times, first hand. I am part of that very system and what I have seen has surprised me. Yet I am the naive one ?

    I am shocked at you Oigal for apparently not recognizing that Muslim women are as much part of oppressive social norms as the men. Once again you have brought into to western feminist rhetoric.

    You think the women are “victims” and all would be sweetness and light, if not for the men. Well sorry mate, the women are part and parcel of the Muslim world, not hapless victims of it. They are no less Islamic than the men and are often more moralistic in their views.

    You live in the worlds biggest Muslim country and still don’t get it. Seeing your posts, on a variety of topics, I expected greater insight. Maybe you had just returned from a bar (research) session with the fat abusive drunk gropers ;)

  5. avatar Stevo says:
    July 3rd, 2011 at 5:30 am

    I stirred up this fuss by posting in defense of men (and for those paying attention, South East Asian women).

    I also pointed out that just as Islamic extremists see no wrong in their treatment of women, so it is in much of the west in the treatment of men. I invited you to consider things from another perspective.

    In response, a number of you have reinforced that point with blatant denial of any double standard in the west and distorting my position as being against womens rights. I have been the respondent of various laughably inaccurate personal attacks, slurs and pronouncements.

    A rather hysterical response to championing equality, don’t you think chaps?

    Just like the Taliban, you can see no wrong in your thinking. The Islamic fundamentalists would argue that their beliefs are based on the teachings of a higher power. Their laws and everyday life is consistent with the word of God. Hard to argue with that approach.

    You guys have what as the basis of your beliefs ?………….. well not much really!

    You sprout western feminist doctrine as if it is the word of God. You accept it without question and ridicule non believers. Long ago the womens rights issue was hijacked by social engineering Marxists. Its no longer about equal pay, freedom from abuse etc. Its not even about women. It is about bringing about an artificial society based on ideology that is discordant with the reality of human nature.

    Its supremely arrogant to assume your experimental ideology, (which has emerged only in a few countries in very recent times), is the standard by which to judge all the peoples of the world. Some with far older cultural histories.

    Its little wonder the Islamic fundamentalists don’t want to emulate the west.

    I say this as someone who is an atheist and who holds (mostly) ordinary western values. Really we probably agree what sort of world we want; the difference is I do not think my views are the world.

  6. avatar Stevo says:
    July 3rd, 2011 at 1:43 pm

    I found this. Its sums it up beautifully, in the west.

    Enjoy…….

  7. avatar Oigal says:
    July 3rd, 2011 at 2:16 pm

    It certainly does… just not what you think

  8. avatar Stevo says:
    July 3rd, 2011 at 2:54 pm

    Yes its hard to change a persons views with reason and logic, if they did not use those skills to form the views in the first place, Oigal.

    Funny thing is, western women tend to have a less hysterical response to my views than what I have seen here, from brain washed men.

    Women are not stupid and can often see these things for themselves, or have used them to their advantage. I guess they can see my views are sincere and thought out, rather than a bunch of personal attacks dressed up as psycho babel.

    So sorry chaps, in the real world, I am not known as being someone short on female company. Maybe women feel relaxed knowing they do not have to live up to some fantasy?

    I guess being an arsehole is tolerated if your intentions are sincere. ;)

  9. avatar Lairedion says:
    July 3rd, 2011 at 4:11 pm

    Well, after posting my comment on insecure men whinging about feminazis two comments stand out:

    Berlian biru willing to share pics from him with past girlfriends against a small fee just to backup his claims. These pics are yet to be shared with his current Indo wife.

    Stevo arguing the position of western men in society is comparable with that of women in Islamic countries in terms of rights being compromised and denied.

    Need I say more? :lol:

  10. avatar timdog says:
    July 3rd, 2011 at 4:32 pm

    Lairedion, exactly…

    Much of what Stevo says, I suspect, needs to be taken with a pinch of salt, and to be regarded as having at least in part a trollish intent (as, incidentally, do my own more flagrant insults on the last couple of pages; I stated as much openly).

    Very much of what he’s said in the last couple of days – particularly his aggressively humping a straw-woman eblazoned “racism” – can probably also be regarded as attempts specifically to get me to weigh back in.

    However, to attempt to equate the petty insecurities of a handful of inadequate western men with the status of women in Saudi Arabia, the treatment of women in Afghanistan, or any number of other outrages, even in jest, even with tongue in cheek, even with purely trollish intent, is f*cking obscene.
    What a jackass.

  11. avatar Oigal says:
    July 3rd, 2011 at 4:35 pm

    Stevo, The moment you posted the below and as “L” rightly points out, no one could take you seriously anymore, I mean really..sheeshh.

    While the liberal west shrills about the treatment of women in some Islamic states, they remain strangely muted about the gross injustices visited upon men in the west.

    Hunting out extreme examples and quoting your mates mate that 50-80 rape complaints are false just makes you sound sad and bitter. No one’s hysterical on this side, have read back on the more and more outlandish claims you are making, not a healthy sign.

    Oh, thanks for the non required and bizarre update on your sex life (or not) really speaks volumes. Time for a Bex n good lie down perhaps?

  12. avatar A says:
    July 3rd, 2011 at 5:13 pm

    Hi. I’m an Indonesian woman working in a UK high secure male prison’s mental health team. I find most of my western female colleagues are more than able to work alongside with men. What I see is this; they choose to be fair, not because they are forced to but because they want to work effectively as part of the team. I also find most of my male colleagues easygoing, yet professional towards their female colleagues, and I think it’s because of the very same reason.

    I remember one incident long time ago whereby a male colleague, for a joke, touched a female colleague’s chest in front of the other colleagues. This is in a physical course where men and women work in pairs. There was no malice intended, it was a sheer, immature stupidity. It took sometimes for the woman to report it. The man’s girlfriend also worked there. The matter was investigated; the man was suspended and demoted.

    I work with paedophiles, rapists and men who are prolific offenders in domestic violence; many of whom were victims themselves once, and cannot empathise with their victims no matter how much you try to get them to. I’ve also worked with men whose mental states deteriorate in prison due to false accusations. As a female, I too, ABHOR these women. They are one of the main reasons why genuine female victims and families have to put up with stigma and EXTREMELY traumatising cross examinations, leading to inevitably, under-reported sex crimes. Hell, it’s an evil circle! The system here is not without flaws (name me one place with a perfect system!), but it is trying its best to safeguard those vulnerable and innocent. In divorce cases, let’s remember that children are the one who suffer the most when parents are using them as pawns in personal vendettas or personal gains.

    This may sound lame, but in my ideal world, I think it’s possible for women and men to have healthy perspectives on each other, but it depends on their immediate personal circumstances and ultimately the society they live in.

  13. avatar Stevo says:
    July 3rd, 2011 at 5:43 pm

    Timdog; Are you “offended” by the barbaric treatment of men in those strict Islamic societies, or does your great compassion only extend to that part of the population you want to bed? Hint, stop thinking with your dick.

    Oigal; You really should read my posts before responding to them, even if its just to give me a more effective stir up.

    My sources differ from yours, having worked in the field. You really have no idea what your on about.

    I am still wondering where you read a “bizarre” description of my sex life?

    It would certainly be more interesting than listening to you lot parrot feminist psycho babel about insecure bitter sad men Ad nauseam. Its noted that when challenged not one of you are able to explain these sorts of comments. But hay , its sounds the part………….Polly wants a cracker, Swaaaaaark !!!!

    I might try a bit of psycho babel myself………… Perhaps the fact you are living in a Muslim country, where there are many things to offend/challenge western values, makes you all clutch those values a little tighter. Its like your security blanket that helps you maintain your identity.

    That would explain some of the intemperate nonsense you have all come up with when I dared to defend the rights of ALL people.

    Well I must go cry into my beer and grope some hookers, before smacking my (burqa clad) wife around, burning a witch and attending a KKK rally. ;)

  14. avatar ET says:
    July 3rd, 2011 at 6:18 pm

    Stevo said

    You sprout western feminist doctrine as if it is the word of God. You accept it without question and ridicule non believers.

    Like with so many other social issues what once began as a legitimate struggle for equal pay and emancipation perpetuated itself as an instrument of power once most of its goals were achieved. Then it became an ideology – almost a religion – and a standard for political correctness, silencing and vilifying anyone who dares to differentiate or criticize its side-effects and abuses, not to mention a steady source of income for many of its protagonists followed by a herd of table-jumpers.

    We’ve seen it all before.

  15. avatar Stevo says:
    July 3rd, 2011 at 6:41 pm

    Oh are you boys following the Dominique Strauss-Kahn rape case?

    Apparently the case is collapsing, but of course his career is totally destroyed regardless of the outcome of any legal proceedings.

    Its “offensive” to suggest a women could have possibly made a false compliant, but lets see what comes out of the wood work shall we?

    Oigal, how is your fellow Aussie, Julian Assange, doing? I invite you to look into the alleged facts of that case. (Careful you may learn something!)

    Anyway………….. lets get back to throwing dispersions at your host country, their religion, their legal system and the entire Muslim world ……shall we?

    After all you guys are all about unbiased equality and compassion. ;)

  16. avatar Stevo says:
    July 4th, 2011 at 2:50 am

    ET, have you noticed how dull and boring these guys are when they get like this?

    No matter what point is raised they only manage to launch personal attacks and maybe chant a few politically correct mantras. Its like they cut and paste everything from the same handbook.

    They are doing what they have been TOLD is the “right” thing. They are like timid little sheep who only want to be loved and accepted by the world.

    But sadly these are the exact some motivations for those who stand by when women are publicly flogged for minor offences against “morality”. You will find their types wherever there is large scale abuse and atrocities.

    The essentially selfish need to “fit in” prevents people like Oigal, Lairedon, Timdog, from following their hearts and doing what is right.

    Sad fact of human life ET, that we free thinkers have to learn to live with.

  17. avatar Oigal says:
    July 4th, 2011 at 7:55 am

    Like with so many other social issues what once began as a legitimate struggle for equal pay and emancipation perpetuated itself as an instrument of power once most of its goals were achieved

    ET, That may be true and there is no doubt courts do generally lean towards the mother when children are involved (surprise, surprise).

    However when someone makes the nonsensical statement comparing the plight of Western Men to rights and privileges (or lack of) to women in any number of oppressive patriarchal societies amongst other howlers then the conversation just becomes absurd if not as one commentator put it offensive. Although I must admit personally I don’t find it offensive as it is just too silly and puerile to take seriously.

  18. avatar Stevo says:
    July 4th, 2011 at 8:07 am

    “However when someone makes the nonsensical statement comparing the plight of Western Men to rights and privileges (or lack of) to women in any number of oppressive patriarchal societies amongst other howlers then the conversation just becomes absurd if not as one commentator put it offensive.”

    Sure Oigal,…………. but who said that? Not me.

    Here is what I said:

    “While the liberal west shrills about the treatment of women in some Islamic states, they remain strangely muted about the gross injustices visited upon men in the west.”

    So what part of that says that men in the west have it equally as bad?

    Well it does not say that. I was simply pointing out that both societies are often blind to their own short comings.

    Once again your way to fast to grind your tired old axe and twist any statement to serve as a platform for other issues eating away at you.

    Its really rather tiresome ………..

  19. avatar Stevo says:
    July 4th, 2011 at 8:47 am

    As the self appointed global spokes person for woman rights, Oigal has failed to recognize a simple fact.

    Women are not helpless victims of Islam. They are very much part of it and help to maintain the social norms and values of Islam, just as much as men do. Equally they (women) can adopt strict fundamentalist beliefs. They are also partly responsible for the excesses that we westerners find so obscene.

    I am sure a great many women take offense to your clear implication that women cannot be “real” Muslims and are only doing what the men force them to.

    Muslim ladies may not need the preaching of a displaced eurocentric liberal to guide them. They may even have a mind of their own!

    I really think you should show more respect to the women of your adopted country Oigal. Its very disrespectful of those who have excepted you into their society. Just plain bad manners really.

    How about about adopting a more tolerant and holistic approach as Ramadan approaches.

    Peace brother ;)

  20. avatar Oigal says:
    July 4th, 2011 at 10:17 am

    I really think

    Apparently not but whatever Stevo..

  21. avatar ET says:
    July 4th, 2011 at 10:53 pm

    Stevo said

    Women are not helpless victims of Islam. They are very much part of it and help to maintain the social norms and values of Islam, just as much as men do. Equally they (women) can adopt strict fundamentalist beliefs. They are also partly responsible for the excesses that we westerners find so obscene.

    This is indeed something exasperatingly shocking and incomprehensible. But which man can honestly pretend he knows his way in the twisted depths of the female psyche? :-)
    I’ve seen panel interviews with Muslim women about topics like the ‘merits’ of FGM or the virtues of raising their children to become syahid bombers. Their fanaticism was so obvious and outspoken that it couldn’t be that someone was standing behind them looking over their shoulder. But the real hoot was that the western feminist participants in the panel actually agreed and corroborated the fundamentalist muslimah positions which if they had come from a man would have been indignantly howled down as obscene male chauvinist crap.
    It seems feminists consider women to be holy cows. Holy cows can never do wrong and their shit isn’t supposed to stink.

  22. avatar ET says:
    July 6th, 2011 at 12:53 pm

    Oigal

    This of course is just nonsense (my mate knows a copper..who said kind of stuff). Any reputable study as well as commonsense tells you that Rape is the most under reported of all crimes. Sadly even more under reported in countries with heavily religious/patriarch societies and just forget it in Muslim Countries (again for obvious reasons).

    This isn’t mutually exclusive with Stevo’s contention that many rape cases are forgeries. The fact that so many cases remain unreported doesn’t mean that those which get reported automatically deserve more credibility. One should rather look at the reasons why so many rape cases remain unreported. Most women who got raped are relucted to go through the entire painful and humiliating experience again in front of a public court. This is also aggravated by the fact that proof isn’t always straightforward and that these women are asked to disclose all aspects of their private life and anatomy. This has some kind of a snowball effect. Because investigators and prosecutors are aware of these inhibitions they will become more suspicious in those cases that do get reported.

  23. avatar Oigal says:
    July 6th, 2011 at 1:46 pm

    This isn’t mutually exclusive with Stevo’s contention that many rape cases are forgeries

    It is mutually exclusively with a statement

    I have heard figures of between 50 & 80% of rape complaints are false. This is from experienced investigating officers,

    Then going on to raising the current debacle in NY, ooh ok there’s the proof!

    Fair go, ET. Most reasonable people would acknowledge there is of course, false accusations but to suggest that 50 to 80% is just absurd and I am sorry my mates a copper does not really count nor does “I work in the industry” not even sure what that means.
    Same as no one would debate the scales heavily tilted in favour of women in most divorce cases but to try and line up the absurd argument that the plight of western men is somehow comparable to the rights of women in some of the most horrendous theocracies in the world is just laughable.

  24. avatar BrotherMouzone says:
    July 6th, 2011 at 2:13 pm

    @Oigal

    “I work in the industry” not even sure what that means.

    I’m not sure but, from the context, I took it to mean that Stevo works in the rape industry…

    @ET

    I’ve seen panel interviews with Muslim women about topics like the ‘merits’ of FGM or the virtues of raising their children to become syahid bombers. Their fanaticism was so obvious and outspoken that it couldn’t be that someone was standing behind them looking over their shoulder. But the real hoot was that the western feminist participants in the panel actually agreed and corroborated the fundamentalist muslimah positions

    Come again? Western feminists now support female circumcision (and suicide bombing). By all means, feel free to demonize those who disagree with you, but at least try to make it sound realistic…

  25. avatar Stevo says:
    July 6th, 2011 at 3:24 pm

    To be honest I think the figure of 50 to 80 % is unlikely and wish I did not include it. That particular figure I did not hear first hand and is likely rubbish. We can agree on that. However, the real figures are higher than you are ever likely to know dear reader. The bias in favor of females goes well beyond family court matters. That is based entirely on first hand observation. (If I was making stuff up it would be waaay more interesting, trust me)

    When I originally posted on this thread (pg 128) it was to challenge the notion that South East Asian women were some how second best to western women.

    I presented that view as ignorant and also disrespectful of the Asian ladies. I also challenged the racist implication within that line of thought.

    I went on to invite readers to consider the disparity of justice outcomes between men and women, in the West. The idea was to suggest that western society is not as equal as it imagines itself to be.

    No where did I equate the treatment of women, in the likes of Saudi Arabia, with the plight of men in the West. (For the sake of brevity I will ignore the brutal justice against men in such places)

    However the suggestion that the West may not be perfect caused a rather hysterical reaction in some posters!! A number of you distorted the clear meaning of my words in order to use them as platforms to launch into your own little tirades.

    I was speaking out against mistreatment and discrimination against ALL people. I also challenged the idea of Western superiority in equality matters.

    What part do you disagree with ?…………………………

  26. avatar Oigal says:
    July 6th, 2011 at 6:17 pm

    Well to be fair to you Stevo, 90% of what you just wrote is IMHO reasonable and a fair example of one man’s opinion (right or wrong is not relevant).

    What part do you disagree with

    Mostly with Jackass, unsupportable strawmen in support of your points.

    For instance, I disagree with the part which (in fairness) you have acknowledged was well over the top and the use of the the simply bizarre notion that Western Men and woman in myopic, tyrannical theocracies have some level of equivalence in victimization. If you want to use the term hysterical then here is where it applies.

    Now you can claim that was never the intent, but lets be honest, that is not how it reads and why link the two unless you wish to have them compared. Surely if such a range of diverse other commentators get pretty much the same thing from your post, then perhaps it is time to take the Bex and good lie down and start again.

    Frankly from there on, along with the petty insults as I said before pretty hard to take the rest seriously but amusing to watch as the defence of such statements gets wilder and wilder…but like all things the novelty wears off.

    Take it from someone who has been caught out in the heat of inane posting…Sometimes the best defence is a quick post of “Ooops that was a bit silly” you retain your credibility then live to fight another day.

  27. avatar Oigal says:
    July 6th, 2011 at 6:26 pm

    BM,

    Not sure where ET got that one from, however the one issue that did throw the left and feminists into a terminal whirl of confusion was the banning of the niqab. The issue of no government should be able to tell women how to dress, alongside the perception (with some justification) that the dress code is a form of male oppression well…makes for very uneasy and pile inducing fence sitting.

  28. avatar ET says:
    July 7th, 2011 at 12:13 am

    BM

    Come again? Western feminists now support female circumcision (and suicide bombing). By all means, feel free to demonize those who disagree with you, but at least try to make it sound realistic…

    No, they didn’t support FGM (and suicide bombing) as such, only that the positions of women should always be taken seriously no matter how controversial or paradoxical, as long as they reflect a woman’s personal value judgement. In the case of FGM they (a feminist participant spokewoman) defended the absolute right of women to dispose of their bodies in the way they deem appropriate, provided it is sanctioned and condoned by other women from the same group. The same rationale was applied in the case of child education and instilling values which they considered a domain in which women should play the leading role.
    The occasion was – as Oigal already hinted at – a debate on German TV some time ago about the burqa, niqab and muslim compulsory dress code which I happened to have switched on. This debate degenerated rather soon in ideological – to which I reckon feminism – bickering, participants losing all sense of poise and proportion. Believe me, I was as flabbergasted as you are.

  29. avatar Stevo says:
    July 7th, 2011 at 4:33 am

    Dear Oigal ,

    You have been unable to (openly) acknowledge the bias and distortion excesses of feminist doctrine have brought in the West.

    I note however, that you have voted with your feet.

    You are living in the biggest Muslim country in the world, made up of Asian people. I suspect the lady in your life has more in common with your adopted country, than your country of birth. I say good on you mate.

    (My original post was to defend an insult on guys, such as yourself, and their Indonesian partners.)

    Debating you is good fun, but I suspect we have considerable common ground on this issue.

    Your actions speak far louder than your words……………… :)

  30. avatar Oigal says:
    July 7th, 2011 at 9:12 am

    You have been unable to (openly) acknowledge the bias and distortion excesses of feminist doctrine have brought in the West.

    I note however, that you have voted with your feet

    Stevo, this is what people are trying tell you. Just because you see cause and effect does not make it true. Quoting random disparate facts and myths as support for point is the very essence of straw.

    My being in Indonesia has absolutely nothing to do with feminist doctrine support or otherwise. To be blunt, I am in it for the money and the job an economic refugee if you will.

    Just as a matter of interest, I don’t really view Australia or the West through the myopic prism you do either and it would be false to paint that picture. I personally can think of very few aspects of Australian Life that would have my howling at the injustices imposed upon me by some cabal of rampant (pun intended) feminists.

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