Dating Indonesian Girls

Apr 4th, 2006, in Girls, IM Posts, Opinion, by David

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4,468 Comments on “Dating Indonesian Girls”

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venna Says:
March 11th, 2010 at 10:44 pm
@bs: maybe interfaith marriage? or maybe elitist vs low class cougar, hahah? I found this link while exploring the cowboysinparadise. quite interesting:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ot791ITQYbc

@diego: wow, you consider me as elitist? I’m not really sure about it. since when a girl who prefer go to the jungle to try some ayahuasca and exploring slum urban areas will fit into elitist mold? but thanks, though *slurping temulawak – or temuquila*

@ET: thnks for the info. I already download the pdf file from usindo. Haven’t finish reading it since my eyes got hurt if I read too much e-file. By the way, you still not converted? :p

@Brian A: aaa…. there you go. I never thought it was you. Congrats for your marrigae.
diego Says:
March 12th, 2010 at 12:02 am
@venna: read my post again (see the ordering), i actually consider you as pembantu
venna Says:
March 12th, 2010 at 12:06 am
No, i know in your heart you want to consider me as the reverse, you just don’t have enough gut to say it and instead choose to follow the crowd. Well, what can I do? Not all men created the same.
bs Says:
March 12th, 2010 at 12:40 am
@Brian the Finn

Congratulations on the marriage decision and the kid. Hope you guys will be a happy family.
After hanging out here you probably don’t need the hint that mixed marriages can be bumpy (but otherwise great) rides

Let’s us IM-ers know how the wedding went.
diego Says:
March 12th, 2010 at 4:46 am
@venna yang cantik (walau mungkin hitam), didn’t I say “check the ordering in my previous post”. You are clearly mapped to pembantu in the venna.vs.inez.fightshow. I never tried to hide what I wanted to say on that matter.

Disclaimer: I have nothing against blacks.
venna Says:
March 12th, 2010 at 5:15 am
@Diego: oops, sorry brother. Guess I’m still pretty sensitive today (hugs)

By the way, I found an article from The Jakarta Post today. Check this out. It’s relevant with this thread.

http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2010/03/07/transnational-activism-among-women-mixed-marriages.html
deta Says:
March 12th, 2010 at 9:31 am
By the way, you still not converted? :p

Venna, don’t start. Or I have to calm him down from getting a sudden convert-itis attack.

As for you, sweetie:

No need to, deta. I only have to imagine you at midnight, in the dunes of the cape to…

Can you give me my confidence back? According to inez I may have lost it

I have another song to ‘help you out’:

I picture you on the beach, lying in the sand
Out of reach of my trembling hands, I picture you in a car
Dark hair in the wind, I picture you in my arms
And the touch of your skin, the smile on your face, the way that you taste
(“You come to my senses” – Chicago)

Great weekend ahead. Don’t go get your confidence back without me
venna Says:
March 13th, 2010 at 4:08 am
Venna, don’t start. Or I have to calm him down from getting a sudden convert-itis attack.
_________

I know he’s not converted yet because he mentioned video syariah islam was a perfect song for karaoke bar. Otherwise he would like to listen to it as a lullaby, a perfect song before going to bed

But you know I am just kidding, right, ET & Deta? I don’t want to spark unnecessary flames on conversion topic here, but I do like to hear stories from people who struggling between two different religion (interfaith marriage); how they compromise, adjust, and set their expectation towards their kids later; and moreover how they set themselves free from inner conflicts. I know some mixed couples (interracial) have this issue, but it is not easy to dig more about it from them; which is quite understandable because it is potential to raise unpleasant judgments from their folks.
bs Says:
March 13th, 2010 at 1:11 pm
If you respect each others choices and do not expect to ‘change’ someone, I think you’ll be ok as a couple. Unfortunately, Indonesia is not yet ready to accept freedom of religion. External pressure on the couple to ‘change’ will probably not end in the next few decades.
Living in a secular country is about your only choice is you want to avoid this problem.
ET Says:
March 13th, 2010 at 1:14 pm
deta

Venna, don’t start. Or I have to calm him down from getting a sudden convert-itis attack.

Too late. It has happened. Your inspiring words didn’t miss their effect.

Look at me.

PS I changed my mind about lying in the sand. It always gets in the way at the wrong moment.
ET Says:
March 13th, 2010 at 1:52 pm
bs

External pressure on the couple to ‘change’ will probably not end in the next few decades.

Back to reality.

I happen to know of some pretty nasty external pressures. A relative of mine was engaged to a javanese janda (divorcee) with two children. They met when the woman was on the perantauan and in the meantime the children were raised with the muslim grandparents. As both partners aren’t particularly religiously inclined there was between them no problem whether one of them should convert in case they decided to marry.
However they didn’t reckon with the sensitivities of the woman’s relatives (and maybe kampung neighborhood) who threatened to do everything possible to avoid handing over the children in case there would be a marriage outside of islam.

But don’t worry, timdog. To keep peace and harmony in the family my relative converted. I was even invited to attend the ceremony.

I sent my keris.
Peet Says:
March 13th, 2010 at 5:45 pm
Because we wanted to get married I had to convert to Muslim. I was never a believer in anything and my opinion has not changed. Whether you are Christian, Hindu, Jewish or Muslim is all up to you, I respect everyone as long as you are a good person and praying is not going to change that. It’s all about mutual respect and so far no one has bothered me about this, not even in the kampong. I did read the Koran and more books about life of Mohamed but mainly to know what it’s all about.
brian A Says:
March 14th, 2010 at 4:28 pm
@peet
Were you a christian before converting, even if you didnt really believe in it all.
In order to convert from christian to muslim must we know about muhammad and the quarn?

does it take much study to convert?

I am the same as you, but officially I am a christian but dont really believe in it. I dont go to church ever even at christmas and easter, and have never felt the need to have an interest or believe in it.

I must convert to a muslim, to keep my girlfriend happy. After I get all of our marriage out of the way then no doubt I will just forget about it.

Would a family have any reason to be concerned if the son or grandson converted to muslim? I dont think mine would but im not shore if anything or anyone would be affected even in the smallest way after I convert. ?

Brian
Peet Says:
March 14th, 2010 at 4:53 pm
Brian,
suggest you read about it first. I had to have five lessons in Jakarta in Mosque, it was interesting as everything was in Indonesian. As my wife was working one of her friends came along to translate for me, they took turns. You comment to just forget about it after the wedding, not smart as most people I know are very serious about it. I sometimes have to come along to the local Mosque and other official celebrations, funerals etc. so better if you know how to behave. As I live in a kampong it is part of the life, you won’t melt from it and it will make your wife and direct family happy. You must understand in my case you become head of the family and they look up to you. If you live in Jakarta it’s a lot easier I guess. As far as my own family is concerned I have always done what I wanted so no one was really surprised.
bs Says:
March 14th, 2010 at 7:33 pm
It really depends on your local situation. I’ve heard of people who went to a mosque, paid and got the conversion letter. My wife told of some remote family member who’s bule man was said to be converted (her parents said it) but no one actually believed it (This was nikah sirih by the way, so no muttering KUA present).
I’ve also heard of the opposite were converts we’re required to seriously study Islam for several weeks.

I like to read about almost anything and probably know more about the history of Islam than most local muslims. That does not help you in any way in Indonesia though. You have to know what to say and do and they have a very specific version of Islam that differs from the mainstream Arab version.

Ask what the in-laws and KUA require of you, and do remember you already knocked her up, so time is on YOUR side. This is your card when negotiating becomes though.
Ross Says:
March 14th, 2010 at 9:48 pm
Sad to read of people ‘converting’ just to curry favour with a chick or her folks. They ( the girl and her family) would have little respect surely for somebody who can change religions like they change their underwear.
bs Says:
March 14th, 2010 at 10:14 pm
Ross, It’s not for the family to choose this nor just to curry a favour with anybody. This is the national law and it doesn’t care how your in-laws think about the subject.

I strongly disagree with the discriminatory policies on marriage, but does that mean I have to deprive my in-laws (who are great people and would never force anything upon me) of the chance to attend their daughter’s wedding?

If you work(ed) as an expat in Indonesia, you indirectly support(ed) the regime. Living in Indonesia for any length of time without being forced to pay a bribe is impossible as far as I know. This is morally the same as converting in order to be able to marry in Indonesia.

Two of my non-religious, Dutch friends decided they wanted to get married in Bali. That had to include a religion as well, since a non-religious marriage is not possible in Indonesia. Who’s folks did they please according to you?
Ross Says:
March 14th, 2010 at 11:21 pm
There are plenty of people who take a short and inexpensive trip to Singapore – I believe Thailand too is civilised about marriage – in order to wed with neither having to ‘convert.’

And I don’t see how paying ‘coffee-money’ to an Imigrasi bureaucrat is at all comparable.
By all means convert if one is smitten with a sudden revelation that another religion is after all the one for you. But there is absolutely no need to do so unless you lack the hundred bucks each you need to get to SIngapore.
bs Says:
March 15th, 2010 at 1:44 am
And I don’t see how paying ‘coffee-money’ to an Imigrasi bureaucrat is at all comparable.

You participate in something that you morally disapprove just because you can’t be bothered/can’t afford/don’t have time to take the long route. It’s (morally) exactly the same thing.
If you are really that correct and a trip to Singapore is that cheap, why not go to Singapore every thirty days instead of bribing (using the coffee money euphemism doesn’t change the practice) an official? The amount of the bribe is irrelevant, the act of bribing is.

Personally, participating in corruption weighs way heavier on my conscience than any conversion. The first causes way more trouble than the last, and the first is a local requirement by law while the second is illegal. If you live in a country, you have to live by its laws. If you don’t want to, don’t enter it (unless of course you have no other choice).

I think if a country invents a silly law to force people into conversion, no conversion (or the government for that matter) can be taken seriously anyway. This is the same for any policy or law that enforces arbitrary choices, don’t let the religion factor trouble your vision.

I wanted to celebrate the wedding with friends and family. We we’re already forced to disadvantage either people in the Netherlands or Indonesia. Considering peoples finance (and the fact that we both have quite some friends in Malang), Indonesia seemed the logic choice. Running off to a third country and marrying in a hurry without any friends or family present might be your choice, it wasn’t ours.

Most mixed couples here will have to face (or have faced) the same decision. Only a religious zealot will care so much about a conversion that he is prepared to sacrifice his or her own wedding party for this if you’d ask me.
deta Says:
March 15th, 2010 at 8:34 am
Too late. It has happened. Your inspiring words didn’t miss their effect.

Look at me.

For the old memory’s sake, I will take you to the conversation about ‘conversion for marriage’ thing on this page. I disagree with this (regardless of what the religion is) probably as much as you do.

But what’s with all those extraterrestrial pictures? I don’t know how much time you spent to modify them, but that’s so childish. Reminds me of the pictures my little brother used to draw when he was angry ’cause I didn’t give him chocolate.
ET Says:
March 15th, 2010 at 10:12 am
But what’s with all those extraterrestrial pictures? I don’t know how much time you spent to modify them, but that’s so childish.

Sorry. I should have known better. Muslims are easily offended with cartoons.
deta Says:
March 15th, 2010 at 10:23 am
Not offended. Just think that it’s immature.
ET Says:
March 15th, 2010 at 10:25 am
@ bs

Most mixed couples here will have to face (or have faced) the same decision. Only a religious zealot will care so much about a conversion that he is prepared to sacrifice his or her own wedding party for this if you’d ask me.

So far I agree. But it is also about principle. Why should one party have to sacrifice his believes or cultural heritage to convert to something else, whatever or for whatever reason this may be?
It is also contrary to the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.
Ross Says:
March 15th, 2010 at 11:43 am
Must have missed the extra-terrestrial pictures.
But it hardly takes a ‘zealot’ to object to what are effectively forced conversions. It is on the contrary zealots who want to force others to convert. To me, repudiating centuries of your heritage is worse than giving a bureaucrat a pittance of a bribe. Not that i willingly do that, either.
And you can always have a big party when you come back from Singapore!
Oigal Says:
March 15th, 2010 at 12:05 pm
Sad to read of people ‘converting’ just to curry favour with a chick or her folks.

I dunno Ross, depends on how much you are taken in by the whole worship me or else thing. To some no more important than donning a opposition football teams jumper to ride their train into the city. Means nothing to you but you get to ride in peace and quiet, after all one cult is much the same as another be it football or anything else.
Oigal Says:
March 15th, 2010 at 12:08 pm
I thought the cartoon was funny
deta Says:
March 15th, 2010 at 12:23 pm
I thought the cartoon was funny

That’s why I always gave my little brother the chocolate afterwards.
Ross Says:
March 15th, 2010 at 12:37 pm
Aaah, Oigal’s here. No show without Punch, as my ex used to say!
Yes, quite so, Oigal. If you are truly indifferent, nothing matters.
But I really would feel uncomfortable in a Celtic jersey!
Oigal Says:
March 15th, 2010 at 1:06 pm
Indeed Ross, Although I confess I would sooner embrace the looniest religious cult (is that an oxymoron?) than the round ball game of divers and shirkers.
bs Says:
March 15th, 2010 at 1:40 pm
I definitely agree that forced conversion and discrimination based on faith is against the universal declaration on human rights, and as far as I know Indonesia did sign this.
I already said earlier I disapprove the policy. But the zealots here are in the national government, they are not my in-laws. Sure you can have a party when you get back, but that’s make believe as well is it (deep down you must be a very religious guy Ross).

By the way, I also changed my clothing when I visited the Vatican (I’m not a Catholic) and take of my shoes when I visit a Buddhist temple and wear a cap when I visit a Synagoge.
On the non-religious front, I eat with fork and knife but adapt to spoon or chopsticks if appropriate. I always dress properly when I go to work, even in summer when it’s hot.
I try to not break any laws of the place I’m in and behave a bit (for as far as I know local customs). My parents referred to this as good manners.

I thought the English cared about good manners, but they seem to have got lost on the long trip south. I’m not repudiating centuries of my own heritage (which by the way, Henry VIII did, for a woman). You should travel around in North-East Europe and see how the heritage you cling to has gradually changed and the particular part you fancy (the church) is reduced to a quirk of history. This happened without anyone converting.

@ET
The picture is great and relevant. A friend of mine consistently fills in “Jedi” in the religion box Go get that chocolate!