Barry Soetoro

Nov 6th, 2008, in IM Posts, Opinion, by

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  1. avatar Lairedion says:
    September 18th, 2011 at 8:30 pm

    Normally I couldn’t care less which party is delivering the US president. For Europe there’s not much difference on foreign policies. The US doesn’t have the ideological difference between two big political factions like in other Western nations. Obama being the first non-white was indeed a landmark but after a week it’s business as usual. He looks like a lite-Bush jr. to me, nothing special.

    Obama’s supporters can be indeed annoying but give me any Democrat now the GOP is turning into a Christian fundamentalist madhouse.

  2. avatar David Fieldstone says:
    September 26th, 2011 at 12:00 pm

    Obama is not a narural born American regarding its definition to be the president. The Founding Fathers had comments on this regarding dual loyalties. Therefore, wherever Obama was born is irrelevant. He was also an Indonesian citizen only after he was adopted by Lolo, and thereafter was no longer an American. If he ever became an American again, when and where did he do so? Even if he did, he is not eligible as his chain if citizenship was broken. That is law school 101. Where are the papers for all of this. Did he just omit his Indonesian interregnum as though it never existed. It would be no surprise if he did. That is why he is fighting all of this in the courts. He will laugh at all of you when he is no longer the president, because he made fools of all of you. From a Barrister in Canada.

  3. avatar stevo says:
    September 26th, 2011 at 5:06 pm

    Well David, last time I checked America still had elections. If most people don’t want this (un-natural born) citizen in office,then thats their chance to get rid of him. I would not worry about it, if I was you.

    Your legal argument seems confused:

    The Founding Fathers had comments on this regarding dual loyalties. Therefore, wherever Obama was born is irrelevant

    You start by basing your argument on “comments” made by the founding fathers and say where he was born is irrelevant. (at least thats original).

    You then say its “Law School 101″ that he is not eligible.

    I am trying to reconcile the two approaches. Is he not eligible because of comments made by the founding fathers, or because of legal reasons? On the face of it; comments made Obiter Dicta are not binding law.

    Btw… he can laugh all he likes when he is no longer President, but that would seem an unusual reaction to losing an election !

  4. avatar Oigal says:
    September 26th, 2011 at 6:37 pm

    They’re Baccckkkk! :-)

  5. avatar stevo says:
    October 12th, 2011 at 12:00 pm

    To date, at least 236 drone attacks have been ordered in Obama’s name.
    In comparison, there were 52 Pakistan drone strikes during President Bush’s years in office.
    …..But as many as 168 children have also been killed among at least 385 civilians.

    Pop Quiz:

    1. Which of the above persidents got a Nobel Peace Prize?

    2. Why are liberal marxists not crying rivers of fake tears over the dead kids, like they did in Norway? (maybe because the dead Muslims really were “kids” ?)

    http://www.defence.pk/forums/current-events-social-issues/124332-drone-strike-every-four-days-under-obama.html

  6. avatar Oigal says:
    October 12th, 2011 at 12:39 pm

    Which of the above persidents got a Nobel Peace Prize?

    Trick question.. what’s a persident on your world?

    Gee, quoting from a Pakistan Military website now, the first portal of call for ethical, reliable news :-)). Even you that’s weird but hey from the same source.

    “A counter-terrorism official revealed to the Bureau that internal US government figures record an estimated 2,050 people killed by the drone strikes, of whom all but 50 were militant”

    “Over 4,000 Pakistani civilians have been killed by terrorists since 2009″

    Don’t recall anyone in Norway doing much else but camping..

    Of course, in your world Pakistan Military might not be a major state sponsor of international and domestic terrorists..

  7. avatar stevo says:
    October 12th, 2011 at 4:30 pm

    Oigal, thank you for participating in the Quiz.

    I have calculated your score: 0%

    This is below the level of chance alone.

    Sadly it gets even worse. You failed to spot the clear double standard of deaths caused by Western military and those caused by a lone gunman, both supposedly to protect Western liberal democracies against radical Islam.
    The innocents whose kids are killed, homes destroyed, businesses wiped out, actually don’t care about the ideology or assumed legitimacy of their attackers. Similarly the dead don’t care either, be it a lone gunman or Western soldiers.

    You really must try harder to overcome your indoctrination. Better luck next time.

  8. avatar stevo says:
    October 12th, 2011 at 4:44 pm

    Gee, quoting from a Pakistan Military website now, the first portal of call for ethical, reliable news

    He then goes onto quote that very same “Pakistan Military website” …

    “Over 4,000 Pakistani civilians have been killed by terrorists since 2009?

    Don’t recall anyone in Norway doing much else but camping..

    Well there again dear Oigal, I don’t recall the West launching drone attacks on Norway and occupying their country, or are you seriously advancing the idea that we can -bomb them into moderation- ?

    Oigal you are a military man, tell us an example of the US winning a Guerrilla war and changing the indigenous people into Western liberals with a deep love of the Yankee imperialist war mongers ?

  9. avatar berlian biru says:
    October 12th, 2011 at 11:49 pm

    “tell us an example of the US winning a Guerrilla war and changing the indigenous people into Western liberals with a deep love of the Yankee imperialist war mongers ?”

    There was a bit of a guerrilla war fought against US forces in the Confederacy after the Civil War, the descendents of those people are pretty much in love with the US now.

    Is there even such a thing as a western liberal with a love of Yankee imperialist war mongers? Are any liberals anywhere in the world in love with any form of imperialist war mongering?

    Bit of a trick question Stevo.

  10. avatar stevo says:
    October 13th, 2011 at 1:24 am

    The Yanks have done much to promote the liberal marxist agenda around the world BB. Stop being so clever.

  11. avatar Lairedion says:
    October 13th, 2011 at 3:42 am

    stevo,

    2. Why are liberal marxists not crying rivers of fake tears over the dead kids, like they did in Norway? (maybe because the dead Muslims really were “kids” ?)

    What’s amusing is that your Norway statement keeps haunting you. What’s more funny is none of us won’t have to do anything about that, you’re more than capable to remind us yourself.

    The Yanks have done much to promote the liberal marxist agenda around the world

    What’s even better is that every once in a while you will come up with a howler. Now the Americans are guilty of promoting marxism.

    What more brilliant stuff do you have up your sleeve? I don’t expect the birthers back here until Obama takes on the G.O.P. candidate so in the meantime you can fill in the gap.

  12. avatar stevo says:
    October 13th, 2011 at 5:26 am

    I am happy to be “haunted” by my statements Lairedion, but thanks for your interest.

    I have enjoyed watching you & Oigal variously; condem Islam/ defend Islam, condem the killing of kids/ approve the killing of kid and so on…

    Depending on what you think sounds most “liberal and enlightened” at the time.

    What is lacking in your responses is any sort of consistent position. There is a double standard that allows (for example) the killing of kids by armies occupying foreign lands, but does not allow for a few dead political agitators in the West, with both being examples of defending the West from the advance of radical Islam.

    You think the Norway killer was crazy?. Well there are state approved Sharia courts in Europe now. There are Sharia police, in some, suburbs now. Displaying the National Flag and celebrating Christmas are actively discouraged or forbidden to appease radical Muslims, now. There are increasingly loud demands for Sharia law across Europe now. The people responsible are liberal Westerners of the type targeted in Norway.

    Compare that with the threat of Afghan Goat herders (in a place most Americans could not find on a map) attacking the world’s biggest military power.

    You fail to acknowledge the injustice of tens of thousands of innocents dying, yet get all up-tight over a well targeted handful in Norway.

    My position is simple. I am opposed to people being killed in all examples. I do not condone the Norway killers actions or Americas in the fight against radical Islam.

    It is you and Oigal who have tried to excuse the killing of kids, not me. So don’t bother to scramble for the moral high ground as it sinks beneath your liberal feet.

  13. avatar stevo says:
    October 13th, 2011 at 6:10 am

    Just to clarify the American/Marxist liberal connection.

    Yes it does seem like an oxymoron. However the American cultural elite have done much to advance the liberal agenda throughout the modern world. They have created the breeding ground for Islamist extremists in western society, by promoting them as minority victims. This allows them to be held to different standards from the rest of society. It is Marxist 101 to create a disenfranchised under class to play the victim role. The West has only its self to blame. American (so called) intellectuals are at the fore with this tactic.

    I wonder if they have this problem in China ?

  14. avatar Oigal says:
    October 13th, 2011 at 10:18 am

    The Yanks have done much to promote the liberal marxist agenda around the world BB

    A classic :-).. Even better that its sort of mixed in with some sort of vague reference (one assumes) to the Vietnam War (hence the guerrilla war) which one assumes in Stevo world was the US promoting its marxist agenda bit like they did in South America, Indonesia is the sixties and the Brits did in Malaysia….sorry, I can’t write about this anymore, I am laughing too hard.

    But wait there’s more
    ..(seriously this is difficult ..:-))

    You think the Norway killer was crazy?. Well there are state approved Sharia courts in Europe now. There are Sharia police, in some, suburbs now. Displaying the National Flag and celebrating Christmas are actively discouraged or forbidden to appease radical Muslims, now. There are increasingly loud demands for Sharia law across Europe now. The people responsible are liberal Westerners of the type targeted in Norway.

    Well yes Stevo..I do think the the Norway Killer was crazy as with all sane people.

    So lets see, in your world its not crazy to kill kids at the beach cause your p*ssed at Sharia law? So its not the evil Imans but those nasty little kids in their bathers…sneaky little devils.

    You want to to tell exactly which countries are not allowed to display their national flag?

    Are you not confusing secular states enforcing all religious icons from government spaces (as they should)?

    By the way, as a matter of interest and I know complex arguments are tough but personally I didn’t support the “West” going into Afghanistan as it lets the Muslim nations of the world off the hook for the abuses against women and children that occur daily there. Unfortunately real politic is just a tad more complex.

    but wait there’s more

    I wonder if they have this problem in China

    Actually no, they tend to shoot or detain Muslims in China, along with students, democracy activists, mothers who complain about schools falling down, journalists, teachers, well just about everybody really at one time or other. Meanwhile, they are plundering around SE Asian raping and pillaging resources from Indonesia, Philippines , Vietnam Yep, now there’s a model :-).

    P.S. Here’s a tip, its not that hard to make a case against US involvement in Afghanistan or Iraq but I wouldn’t start by using a Pakistan Military website as my reference point :-)

    P.P.S. Honestly Stevo, do you work at this stuff? I cannot believe you just make it all up on the spot, its too funny.

  15. avatar stevo says:
    October 13th, 2011 at 10:36 am

    Oigal, a quick google search will show what I am talking about in regards to the flag and Christmas icons. Its certainly an issue in the UK, with even traditional childrens stories being doctored to remove references to Christmas. It not about a secular state, its about appeasing radical Muslims. Check it out for yourself.

    I agree with what you said about China. This is a special moment for us both, you actually understood the point (well part of it) of one of my posts. Have you been taking some lessons in basic English comprehension?

  16. avatar Oigal says:
    October 13th, 2011 at 12:46 pm

    Come on Stevo, you dodged the easy ones…

    You think the Norway killer was crazy?. Well there are state approved Sharia courts in Europe now. There are Sharia police, in some, suburbs now. Displaying the National Flag and celebrating Christmas are actively discouraged or forbidden to appease radical Muslims, now. There are increasingly loud demands for Sharia law across Europe now. The people responsible are liberal Westerners of the type targeted in Norway

    Well yes Stevo..I do think the the Norway Killer was crazy as with all sane people.

    So lets see, in your world its not crazy to kill kids at the beach cause your p*ssed at Sharia law? So its not the evil Imans but those nasty little kids in their bathers…sneaky little devils.

    If its that easy to google then it should be easy for tell us in which countries where it is forbidden to fly the National Flag? Let’s not channel Glen Beck and just make stuff up on the spot.

    Ok I agree, its a bit tough to top Norway kids are to blame for your Sharia law issues and are therefore fair game and the US exports Marxism :-)

  17. avatar stevo says:
    October 13th, 2011 at 1:46 pm

    Oigal your the only one here saying its ok to kill kids (average age 24)

    I said this:

    My position is simple. I am opposed to people being killed in all examples. I do not condone the Norway killers actions or Americas in the fight against radical Islam.

    To lazy to google? ok let me try. There are too many to post here, but this one seems topical:

    Police anger over ban on Union Flag badges in support of British troops

    Metropolitan Police officers have defying orders banning them from wearing Union Flag badges on their uniforms in support of British troops, describing the demand as “shameful”.
    Scotland Yard chiefs have told officers to remove the emblems, which cost £1 with proceeds going to charity, after a complaint that they were offensive. However, many junior officers have defied the ban by continuing to wear the one-inch flags, risking disciplinary action, so they can honour British forces serving in Afghanistan.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/5928688/Police-anger-over-ban-on-Union-Flag-badges-in-support-of-British-troops.html

    Oh what the heck:

    At least 85 Islamic sharia courts are operating in Britain, a study claimed yesterday.
    The astonishing figure is 17 times higher than previously accepted.

    The tribunals, working mainly from mosques, settle financial and family disputes according to religious principles. They lay down judgments which can be given full legal status if approved in national law courts.

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1196165/Britain-85-sharia-courts-The-astonishing-spread-Islamic-justice-closed-doors.html#ixzz1adqw9LKi

  18. avatar Oigal says:
    October 13th, 2011 at 3:04 pm

    Oigal your the only one here saying its ok to kill kids (average age 24)

    Come on Stevie, its no fun if you are just going to lie. We have already been all over this. DO you really need us to direct cut and paste your own words again..

    Or shall I just choose from this weeks howlers..

    You think the Norway killer was crazy?

    The people responsible are liberal Westerners of the type targeted in Norway.

    Me personally yup the guy is a loon and a murderer, obviously however not in stevie world.

    Ah so we are not talking about being forbidden to fly the national flag but placing an unauthorized accoutrement on official uniforms. Bit of Beckish exaggeration from not being allowed to fly the flag don’t you think. Now you may make the case an exception could have been made in this case, although it would be rare for any changes to be approved no matter how good the cause.

    The tribunals, working mainly from mosques, settle financial and family disputes according to religious principles. They lay down judgments which can be given full legal status if approved in national law courts.

    Oh myy!!!!… Why it’s just like the Jews, JW’s, Mormons, Amish and Catholics, once again personally I think they should outlaw the lot of them. Then again its hardly a Muslim only thing where some people place primacy to religious laws over secular. Did you note the bit in bold by the way?

    However, that brings back to central point as some people need the religious crutch ergo its not crazy to kill kids in Norway…..weird very weird

    Oh as for the 24 year old then, dearie me didn’t someone already point out your flawed ability at maths on another thread :-)

    Some new stuff please Stevie..

  19. avatar Oigal says:
    October 13th, 2011 at 3:13 pm

    Oh by the way..

    “The Metropolitan Police has a dress code policy to clarify the dress standard expected from all staff whether they are wearing uniform or plain clothes.

    “The Met wants to ensure that everyone projects a smart and professional image in support of delivering a quality service.

    “The dress code states only the approved corporate badging may be used and only on clothing authorised by the Clothing Board.”

    That’s pretty much version found in any dress manual for any military or police force in the western world. Even the Australian Defence Force issues a special memo allowing troops to wear additions to the dress code on such days as ANZAC day and Remembrance day, it is not left to the rank and file to decide what to wear and when.

    It’s hardly a case of Police being forced to pull off the official Union Flag from their uniforms as you pretend it is. At best an over zealous ruling of an existing dress code that has been around for decades.

  20. avatar stevo says:
    October 13th, 2011 at 3:24 pm

    So still no comment from you on the thousands of dead Muslim kids then Oigal?

    In your world, that is not crazy, its all ok because they wear a uniform. (Well so did the Norway guy for all its worth.)

    I know the dead kids are not killed in a deliberate way by soldiers, but the soldiers should not be there and the kids are just as dead as those Norway activists are.

    Oigal do your own search on the flag thing. I have read numerous references to it and assumed you would know. I over estimated you again. Sorry for being such an optimist.

  21. avatar stevo says:
    October 13th, 2011 at 3:28 pm

    However, that brings back to central point as some people need the religious crutch ergo its not crazy to kill kids in

    in in in ………. Pakistan, Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya ? Is that the crutch -you- use Oigal?

  22. avatar stevo says:
    October 13th, 2011 at 3:43 pm

    Oh my manners Oigal………..I forgot to thank you for defending Sharia law (being applied in a Western liberal democracy no less .)

    Maybe you would be happier in Saudi Arabia. I hear its nice and warm there.

    We have to agree to disagree on the dead kids thing however. I do not excuse the killing of tens of thousands of people in the fight against radical Islam, as you have done time and time again.

    I am much less concerned about 20 odd spoilt over indulged priviledged kids in Norway. Its hard to quantify suffering, but I have to go with the war on terror being the greater evil.

    Your entitled to justify the slaughter, in your own way. I just wish you would admit to it and say it straight, that little white Norwegian kids matter more.

  23. avatar Oigal says:
    October 13th, 2011 at 4:26 pm

    Oh my.. Perhaps I should write slower..

    Why it’s just like the Jews, JW’s, Mormons, Amish and Catholics, once again personally I think they should outlaw the lot of them

    Which is the hard part to comprehend, sorry cannot do picture writing here.

    Keep up the bizarre tho, I am sure the Pakistan Taliban is happy to have you on board.

    Oh I nearly forgot to say “war on terror” as you put it, is a particularly sneaky way the US promotes Marxism throughout the word, that and dem sneaky underhand little Norway kids. Lucky we have you to see through their sinister plot.

  24. avatar ET says:
    October 13th, 2011 at 7:10 pm

    Oigal

    That’s pretty much version found in any dress manual for any military or police force in the western world. Even the Australian Defence Force issues a special memo allowing troops to wear additions to the dress code on such days as ANZAC day and Remembrance day, it is not left to the rank and file to decide what to wear and when.

    Strictly spoken this is correct. It’s not to the rank and file to decide what to wear and when. But this is not what is at stake here. What’s important here is that Scotland Yard has ordered to remove the badges after a complaint because they were deemed offensive by some.

    Scotland Yard chiefs have told officers to remove the emblems, which cost £1 with proceeds going to charity, after a complaint that they were offensive.

    The nation’s symbol being offensive? If there hadn’t been a complaint would Scotland Yard have ruled the same? What if an emblem or tag representing the Union Jack would be part of the official uniform? Should it also have to be removed? Will next the ‘Stars and Stripes’ also be removed from American astronauts’ space suits because it might be interpreted as a symbol of imperialism and colonization of outer space?

    This kowtowing and pandering to islamic (and joint marxist-liberal) sensitivities and demands is becoming ridiculous. The biggest danger however is that once you give in these demands will become stronger and stronger until you end up with your back against the wall. Then it’s goodbye freedom and democracy, welcome sharia.

  25. avatar Oigal says:
    October 13th, 2011 at 9:41 pm

    ET, This is where the so called conservatives are their own worst enemy with the fevered exaggeration of the ‘facts’. Firstly let’s recall the original silly statement ‘it’s forbidden to the the national flag’ when challenged we end up with something like an over zealous enforcement of an long existing dress regulation (or perhaps not, I don’t know how strict the met is on uniform dress code). Hardly the same thing.

    Removal of the Stars and Stripes from the astro uniform. Fair go, you are sounding like Stevo and you are streets above his level of debate. You and I both know that is not going to happen, firstly because it s a part of the uniform and secondly because the yanks patriotic to a cringe worthy degree. So it just brings the debate to a silly level.

    The is plenty to be concerned about with Sharia law however it is both inane and incorrect to whine about western liberals or norway kids on a beach being responsible. Unfortunately religion ( primarily christian) has never really been successfully rooted out of secular democracy and has used and abused the public purse for special privileges and rights for centuries. What is happening now is Islam is using those same built in rights and laws created by the Christian neo cons to a degree the Christian right could only and does only wish. The fault lies not with the liberal west but look at your Christian neo nuts they created the environment and now they reap the very bitter harvest.

  26. avatar Oigal says:
    October 13th, 2011 at 9:46 pm

    BTW, I don’t know but it might be worthwhile finding out who made the complaint before we jump to the conclusion is was dem evil Muslims, ol Stevie will look pretty silly ( ya I know) if turns out the complaint was made by a good ol English Saxon who regards the symbol not as a flag but as a symbol of support for the war on terror he so hates and is so ignorant about.

  27. avatar stevo says:
    October 14th, 2011 at 1:16 am

    Read what people write Oigal, your replies won’t sound so off-base. There are many other examples of the national flag being deemed offensive. In one case a county police station could not fly the Union Jack because it may be offensive to locals. (It came to light when three weeks latter they flew a gay-pride flag at the same station.)

    Its really not an important point. What is important is the deaths of civilians in the mis-guided war on terror. A thing you fail to acknowledge in any real way.

    You are unable to engage in any meaningful debate on this and choose instead to take deliberate misinterpretations of what I am saying.

    I admit it was worth my time to see you defend Sharia law. Priceless!

  28. avatar stevo says:
    October 14th, 2011 at 1:18 am

    Oh my.. Perhaps I should write slower..

    Or think faster

    My position is simple. I am opposed to people being killed in all examples. I do not condone the Norway killers actions or Americas in the fight against radical Islam.

  29. avatar Lairedion says:
    October 14th, 2011 at 1:41 am

    Labels like liberal-marxist or marxist-liberals are nonsense as liberalism in the true sense is diametrically opposed towards stubborn ideologies like socialism, marxism, fascism but also Islam and Christianity. I had the experience of living in both a fascist military dictatorship (Orba) and a liberal democracy (Holland) so I can tell the difference.

    There’s nothing wrong with liberal ideas but some of the leftist liberals should oppose outdated and conservative ideologies like Islam with the same spirit and determination they fought outdated and conservative ideologies like Christianity back in the 60′s to gain more room for progressive, tolerant and modern ideas in society.

    Breivik may have had hatred towards those leftist liberals but any person lowering himself/herself to senseless killings of innocents is a lunatic. And people applauding such killings are equally nuts.

  30. avatar stevo says:
    October 14th, 2011 at 2:29 am

    I agree with all you wrote Lairedion and you sum it up well. The problem is often liberals are allowing very un-liberal ideologies to emerge.

    You may still have to convince Oigal that killing (non Norwegian) innocents is wrong.

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