Barry Soetoro

Nov 6th, 2008, in IM Posts, Opinion, by Guest Writer

View the original article here.

999 Comments on “Barry Soetoro”

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Odinius Says:
June 28th, 2010 at 3:09 am
Ross said:

And what kind of example would be set by ‘gay’ (‘sad’) couples bringing up a child in such an un-natural and unwholesome environment?

The nuclear family is fairly “unnatural,” by historical standards, as it’s a relatively new development. It’s something we’ve constructed socially and institutionalized. It’s a very good, functional institution, but it’s not something that descended from the heavens at the dawn of time.

With regards to differences between straight and gay parents, apparently there’s little difference in terms of child psychology or other markers of well-being. Studies show, once you control for things like standard-of-living, pre-existing medical conditions, stability of the parent couple and so on, there are no statistically significant differences in these regards. Instead, the general problems associated with adopted children are the best predictors of those childrens’ well-being.

e.g. http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE58O3MK20090925

People who oppose gay adoption should just be honest about it and admit that the reason is because their own, subjective sense of morality–often but not always based upon religious beliefs–says it’s “wrong.” That’s a valid position to take, but the attempts to establish that this is a general, objective “truth” are pretty unconvincing.
Oigal Says:
June 28th, 2010 at 9:45 am
Oigal is running scared now.
‘The fact that your original assertion was so pathetically weak that you have to continually try and distract the discussion by strawman agruements and red herrings is what is pathetic.

Still waiting to see what your take is on the other highly scientific papers published by your oft quoted Regent University?

Nagh…Ross, You have supplied nothing but hatred and bile from sources that would make a rational person cringe. In your obession, you have become just a boring little stalker, good for few laughs but nothing new to add except more bigoted, intolerant view from Ross World. Fact is, I find you boring and insignificant and see little need to encourage your bile further. yawn..zzzzzzzzzz. Keep your self promoting of your blog going Ross, I fully encourage the modern era version of basket weaving.

If you come up with something that does not bore us all, I will be sure to have a few more laughs at your expense.
Oigal Says:
June 28th, 2010 at 2:19 pm
Ooops, Funny what you find this was in my oz paper that arrived today..

Good week for lesbians who conceive through donor insemination: their children grow up well-adjusted.

A study begun in the 1980s followed 150 lesbians planning to have children. A report online in Pediatrics detailed the psychological progress of 78 of their children, interviewed when they were between 10 and 17. Overall, the children had healthy psychological adjustment. They were rated higher in school performance and lower in social problems than children from the general population. There were no behavioural differences between children whose lesbian parents were together and those whose parents had separated.
Pediatrics
2010;doi:10.1542/peds.2009-3153 (Gartrell N, et al)

The article was published by the American Academy of Pediatrics, which I grant you is no creationist university so that may be a problem for some. However for what it is worth Total 2008 Citations: 36,158*

PEDIATRICS is among the top 2% most-cited scientific and medical journals.

PEDIATRICS is the most-cited journal in the field of pediatrics.

*2008 Thompson Reuters

You see Ross, that’s a reference..Any way “YES WE CAN!”
Ross Says:
June 29th, 2010 at 1:15 am
Poor Oigal. Off on a stroll along the dyke, when we were debating shirt-lifters and incest.
He’ll introduce anything rather than answer the question.

Anyhow, let’s leave him to dream his horrid dreams of whatever perversions he thinks are as acceptable as normality, and consider Odinius, whose style is somewhat more sedate -most of the time.

So the normal family unit, man, woman, children, is a fairly modern construct?
How else did our distant ancestors reproduce? It sure as hell wasn’t through the sordid practices of homosexuality.
Odinius Says:
June 29th, 2010 at 2:14 am
Ross,

Historians and archaeologists note that the nuclear family first became widespread in 17th century Europe. Before that, various forms of extended families where the norm, in Europe and elsewhere. They still are in much of the world. These extended families ranged in structure and the morals and norms attached to them.

You don’t have to look farther than Indonesia to see diverse family forms. Look at the Minangkabau, for example. Quite different from “one man, one woman, 1-4 children.”

Hence, the nuclear family is not “natural,” but a social and historical construct. It’s very functional, but it’s still a construct.
realest Says:
June 29th, 2010 at 6:56 am
Odinius Says:

Well, we’re talking about whether incest is legal, and incest means sex. Since there’s no 100% sure method of birth control, having legal incest sex means making incestuous procreation legal. This is what’s threatening, from an evolutionary perspective.

With regards to adoption, this is already possible in most Western countries. Single parents can adopt, after all, or have surrogate children. So can gay couples. The thing is, it’s no evolutionary threat provided there’s no actual procreation by incestuous couples. It is likely considered a moral hazard by community standards, though. Given that fact, and that in most countries there are more couples that want to adopt than children to adopt, a brother and sister combo aren’t, realistically, going to be able to adopt a kid.

1. If we’re going to blame incestuous couples for retarded kids, then countries like Japan could blame homos for a decreasing population(let’s use Japan coz every other country is pretty much overpopulated).
2. Incestuous kids remains a by-product and steps can be taken to create laws in prohibiting procreation by incest couples. We can’t ban extramarital sex for HIV, can we?
3. In most countries, being gay is a moral hazard by community standards.
Oigal Says:
June 29th, 2010 at 7:50 am
Ah you are warm and caring human being Ross,
Ross Says:
June 29th, 2010 at 11:54 am
Thank you, Oigal. I’ll have a Heineken, please.
Oigal Says:
June 29th, 2010 at 12:03 pm
No worries Ross, although I was sure you would have preferred a Fruit Cocktail..
Ross Says:
June 29th, 2010 at 6:57 pm
And I’ll buy you guys a much-needed plate of otak2!
Odinius Says:
June 30th, 2010 at 12:16 am
Allow me to paraphrase myself:

People who oppose gay adoption/homosexuality should just be honest about it and admit that the reason is because their own, subjective sense of morality–often but not always based upon religious beliefs–says it’s “wrong.” That’s a valid position to take, but the attempts to establish that this is a general, objective “truth” are pretty unconvincing.
Ross Says:
June 30th, 2010 at 2:45 am
Allow me to dissent.

Man and woman were made for each other. We fit perfectly, and by doing so we are enabled to produce more people with the same congenial charateristics.

Those ‘men’ and ‘women’ who flout this situation, which is Nature’s way, or God’s, if you like, of continiung the species, are not quite right.

Just as somebody with any other physical or mental handicap should seek help to live as normally as possible, so too should they.

There is obviously a cure, for some of them do seek help and do resume normality.
diego Says:
June 30th, 2010 at 3:34 am
Ross… I swear to god I tried it. It didn’t work. I had my daily straight tea, twice a day (!) when I was in china. No se pudo.
diego Says:
June 30th, 2010 at 3:42 am
Or is it because the effect of the cure was neutralized by the “queer water” I drank during a gay pride somewhere?
Oigal Says:
June 30th, 2010 at 7:47 am
Ross, Can you honestly not see how intolerance such as yours in this issue virtually mirrors those you so oft (with justification although I question your “cure” for that as well) rant and rail against namely the FPI and other Hard Line Islamists.

The very line

Those ‘men’ and ‘women’ who flout this situation, which is Nature’s way, or God’s, if you like, of continuing the species, are not quite right.

virtually paraphrases the justification these groups use to abuse the rights and lives of others, although you can insert Christian/Shia/other into the space currently occupied by homosexual.

No doubt that some (most?) are just ignorant thugs but you can be sure that many like you honestly believe that by persecuting others they are preserving the morals and soul of the nation. If fact, they will tell you they are just enforcing natures and gods rightful way of things (Let’s not forget, that according to Muslim tradition we are all born Muslims just that some of us stray from the right path but we can be “cured”).

Therein lies the trouble when certain people take it upon themselves to decide what is God’s or Natures way. It remains the height of arrogance if not sadly amusing to think that God or Nature needs some bearded ranting twit or some sanctimonious expat to make things right.

You or I may not like it but the world seems to get on just fine without us. A Christian who rubs snakes in his spare time whilst chatting with God or someone who prefers their own sex is far less a threat to you and I than those who live and breathe intolerance/hatred in the absence of logic.
Oigal Says:
June 30th, 2010 at 8:52 am
Aww Ross, you have me blocked from your Blog..proxie issue or something and there was so much fun to be had there
Odinius Says:
June 30th, 2010 at 9:36 am
Oigal said:

No doubt that some (most?) are just ignorant thugs but you can be sure that many like you honestly believe that by persecuting others they are preserving the morals and soul of the nation. If fact, they will tell you they are just enforcing natures and gods rightful way of things (Let’s not forget, that according to Muslim tradition we are all born Muslims just that some of us stray from the right path but we can be “cured”).

There is indeed something you can call “radical logic.” Part of that logic is the absolute conviction that when “they” do x, it’s 100% wrong, but when “we” do x, it’s 100% right.

…and, of course, that x and x are “totally different,” even though the only thing that changes are the proper nouns.
David Says:
June 30th, 2010 at 10:02 am
Oigal, proxy issue if that was the problem should be fixed now, so you can knock yourself out…
Oigal Says:
June 30th, 2010 at 10:21 am
Ah thanks Patung..I assume you mean that literally
Ross Says:
June 30th, 2010 at 11:24 am
Oigal, your comments would assuredly stimulate debate.
In fact, I’ve been a little perplexed, if not distressed, at your absence, and hope whatever this ‘proxy’ problem may be, that it is not also denying others a chance to dispute the pearls I’m casting for your benefit.
Winmar Says:
June 30th, 2010 at 7:03 pm
Ross, surely you’re taking the piss? You can’t really think homosexuality is something that can be “cured”!
realest Says:
June 30th, 2010 at 7:05 pm
Oigal Says:

….. to you and I than those who live and breathe intolerance/hatred in the absence of logic.

i dont see how inserting a dick to where i shit or putting a dick into where i eat is something natural. i can understand if it’s based on liberty, but logic …..

If turtles are born with an instinct to run towards the sea and swim out, i’m pretty sure(based on this discussion) that some humans have zero natural instincts at all.
diego Says:
June 30th, 2010 at 10:33 pm
Actually it’s quite natural. You see, to get the dick aroused, you just have to rub it against something, by moving it back and forth. Some people use vagina, some people use hands, some people use inflable doll, and some people use arsehole.
diego Says:
July 1st, 2010 at 12:22 am
Oh, I forgot mouth.
David Says:
July 1st, 2010 at 12:26 am
Ross, surely you’re taking the piss? You can’t really think homosexuality is something that can be “cured”!

Ross had a whole topic on that, any future talk along these lines will have to take itself over there thanks, or folks can take it up more directly with him here, back to BS, Barry I mean.
Odinius Says:
July 1st, 2010 at 1:48 am
Yeah, the tangents have gotten boring. Bring on the birthers!
jengkoluva Says:
July 1st, 2010 at 10:49 am
ow, interesting stuff, but i dont gettit, what’s homosxuality got to do with BS?
Ross Says:
July 1st, 2010 at 11:28 am
As Patung says, jengkoluva, it’s very tangential, Barack having declared last month American Homo Month, but if you want to open up a debate on my new blog, come on over.

I’d been about to respond to Oigal’s long but polite post of a few days ago, but been busy with my blog, which is even more fun.

Patung is right, B. Husein should be pursued here, not everything else.
Brandon Says:
July 1st, 2010 at 12:57 pm
NOWHERE in the constitution does it define a “natural born citizen” as requiring 2 parents who were citizens. That would have ruled out many of the first 15 or so presidents, and not all of them were born at the time of the constitutions ratification.

How many of you can provide your original (hospital copy) birth certificate? I can’t, it was lost in a fire and the hospital no longer has it. Does that mean I’m not a citizen? I still have certified copies from the Palm Beach County Office of Vital Statistics, but it doesn’t name the hospital.

The truth is Obama haters are grasping at straws trying to justify their hate.
Oigal Says:
July 1st, 2010 at 2:37 pm
The truth is Obama haters are grasping at straws trying to justify their hate

Indeed Brandon indeed, some of the stuff here is just plain bizarre. I can understand the dislike of the man’s politics but some of the best conspiracy stuff is a hoot!

However, try and pin down actual things he has done that is outside pretty much mainstream policy is harder for them to do. Universal Healthcare? Hardly the end of the world and pretty much basic stuff for most nations, not even good socialist stuff as the government outsources it to private companies.

Personally I prefered McCain but he was so old it was a monty the scary Palin would get to be Prez and that would be Freddy K nightmare stuff.