1,039 Comments on “Barry Soetoro”
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Odinius says:
May 28th, 2010 at 9:52 pmCliff,
It was ET who appeared to imply that ‘religions’ can have ‘objectives.’
‘religions’ which aim at imposing their own laws to the nation, even abolish its constitution and replace it with some theocracy
But I didn’t see the quotes around religion, so I was perhaps being unfair. Perhaps ET can clarify whether he meant ‘religions’ like Islam or Christianity, or specific sets of religious actors like MMI or the Church of Scientology.
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Cliff says:
May 29th, 2010 at 4:24 amWell, who am i to accuse some one of being unfair, we all have our opinions and its easy to take some ones words different than what they mean it to be.
Have a good day.
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ET says:
May 29th, 2010 at 3:51 pmOdinius
A good example of this can be found in their attitudes towards Calvinism (Cromwell’s religion). They both absolutely HATED Calvinism, and found it a particularly dangerous, theocratic and oppressive religion. But they supported the rights of Calvinists to worship freely.
It’s all about the 1st Amendment, isn’t it? But if this is so important for Americans on what legal grounds was McCarthy allowed to silence the CPUSA and unleash his witch hunt against alleged communists? Was it because in the communist doctrine the notion of ‘god’ is absent so that one may conclude that the 1st Amendment is only fully applicable when the word ‘God’ or ‘Allah’ or whatever other supernatural entity appears, irrespective of any other considerations, even national secutity?
Perhaps ET can clarify whether he meant ‘religions’ like Islam or Christianity, or specific sets of religious actors like MMI or the Church of Scientology.
As you may have noticed before I’m still struggling with the exact meaning of ‘religion’. What does it need for a ‘cult’, ‘doctrine’ or ‘ideology’ to be upgraded to ‘religion’? Is it the number of adherents, the level of power and means, the availability of a substantial body of scripture, the reference to the supernatural or the acceptance by the majority of a certain area? Anything else?
It’s probably just a matter of semantics but IMHO a very confusing one. -
lucy says:
May 30th, 2010 at 8:06 amI can just see it now. Looking back on Barry’s achievements will be his installing sharia law in the USA, amnesty on illegal immigrants AND guns, buidling a mosque on the 9/11 site, bringing the country to its knees by introducing tax payer funded “health & social serivces”, installing “internationalism” instead of “patriotism”, forcing the carving Israel in two “countries”, strengthening Islamic militancy all around the world and much more still to come. Good one Barry, we really needed you!
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May 30th, 2010 at 7:09 pmLucy, you said it, we need all of that like we need another hole in our heads.
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Oigal says:
May 30th, 2010 at 9:46 pmLooking back on Barry’s achievements will be his installing sharia law in the USA, amnesty on illegal immigrants AND guns, buidling a mosque on the 9/11 site,
Laugh.. Thanks for coming Lucy..just when we thought it was was petering out..Sharia Law huh…tee hee..:-)
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May 31st, 2010 at 10:24 pmET said:
It’s all about the 1st Amendment, isn’t it? But if this is so important for Americans on what legal grounds was McCarthy allowed to silence the CPUSA and unleash his witch hunt against alleged communists?
The anti-communist purges were justified on the grounds that American communists were “actively colluding with the enemy,” which is treasonous. While some indeed were, the problem was that all (real and suspected) communists were tarred with the same feather, though many just genuinely (and misguidedly) thought communism was the way to improve the country.
This is widely considered to be an egregious breach of the first amendment by historians and constitutional scholars. Madison and Jefferson probably would have been horrified.
Was it because in the communist doctrine the notion of ‘god’ is absent so that one may conclude that the 1st Amendment is only fully applicable when the word ‘God’ or ‘Allah’ or whatever other supernatural entity appears, irrespective of any other considerations, even national secutity?
No, in a general sense. But, practically speaking, I think it’s fair to say that religion has always been a special case in the US. It’s the only form of social identity explicitly barred from the state, and it’s the only form of social identity explicitly protected by the state. But some people on the left have complained that US Muslims have been treated similarly since 9/11, and said it’s akin to the McCarthyist witch hunts. It’s not on the same scale at all, but perhaps in some individual cases it isn’t all that different.
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May 31st, 2010 at 10:35 pmET,
I thought this merited a unique response, as it’s a fascinating topic:
As you may have noticed before I’m still struggling with the exact meaning of ‘religion’. What does it need for a ‘cult’, ‘doctrine’ or ‘ideology’ to be upgraded to ‘religion’? Is it the number of adherents, the level of power and means, the availability of a substantial body of scripture, the reference to the supernatural or the acceptance by the majority of a certain area? Anything else?
It’s probably just a matter of semantics but IMHO a very confusing oneThat’s hugely debated in the scholarly literature. Comparative religions people tend to essentialize religions and try to find their ‘essence’ through scripture and teachings. But this is problematic for three reasons: 1) scriptures all contradict themselves at some point; 2) many ‘religions’ are not centralized and don’t have a single set of teachings or interpretations, and 3) the practical reality often doesn’t match the abstract principles.
So I think it’s very important to separate ‘the religion’ from ‘religious institutions’ and ‘religious organizations,’ which go from most general and abstract to most concrete and ideological.
The only major ‘religion’ that’s also an organization with clear, ideological objectives is the Catholic Church. I think, in the case of Islam, it’s impossible to attribute similarly clear, ideological objectives to the religion, because it lacks the centralized organizational apparatus Catholicism uses to clear up doctrinal disputes, standardize teachings and enforce conformity. Instead, specific Muslim organizations and states use the religion’s institutions (ulama, etc.) to do this in specific places.
That’s what makes the culture wars internal to Indonesian Islam so consequential.
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bigg cee says:
June 2nd, 2010 at 11:21 amhe has lied to the usa but so did george sr.and jr and thomas jefferson had his secret life so race is not that big of an issue but judge a man for his actions us american indians had our land stole by the white man and bastardized our race so who is pure blood me creek/cherokee/blackfoot and croitan indian and scott irish mostly bohemian but lying under oath is perjury isnt it bible or quaran torah but a day will come somebody get his fingerprints barry/barak hussien mohammed soreto /obama indonesian born we would be better off with arnold ill be back swartanegger or what about al gore god help this country.
lets elect a poor man for president im poor and belive me we would have a firing field day so crooked politicans wealthy men and women try living on 231. monthly thats all i get oct.25 ill turn 62 then ill get 274 mo hey barry hook a man up
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trykzgirl says:
June 12th, 2010 at 3:28 amIf that is so then any american from any country could become president, once they are nationalized. So if it is true then why could not Arnold Schwartzanagger be able to run for capital office? Because it is written in the constitution that you have to be born an American citizen. Not just be one.
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June 12th, 2010 at 8:36 pmhe has lied to the usa but so did george sr.and jr and thomas jefferson had his secret life so race is not that big of an issue but judge a man for his actions us american indians had our land stole by the white man and bastardized our race so who is pure blood me creek/cherokee/blackfoot and croitan indian and scott irish mostly bohemian but lying under oath is perjury isnt it bible or quaran torah but a day will come somebody get his fingerprints barry/barak hussien mohammed soreto /obama indonesian born we would be better off with arnold ill be back swartanegger or what about al gore god help this country.
lets elect a poor man for president im poor and belive me we would have a firing field day so crooked politicans wealthy men and women try living on 231. monthly thats all i get oct.25 ill turn 62 then ill get 274 mo hey barry hook a man up
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Yeah, i am poor too, by the poverty standards and i am 74 and work every day so i make more than $274, and thats the way it should be.We can not have it both ways, i am part Indian too and proud of it, but if it had of been left to the Indians you would not be getting as much as you do, and neither would any one else.
Poor men for president or for our representatives? no one choose,s to be poor, they are poor for some reason, maybe they are poor because they are too fiddle footed, always looking for greener pasture, maybe they are poor because they can,t manage, or maybe they are poor just because they are too lazy to do anything, no, i don,t think we need some one like that as president.
I agree with you about the professional politicians, they are whores, we need to elect people who has a business head on them, some one who knows what makes things turn in the business world, people who understands the meaning of freedom, people who has the common sense it takes to understand what the constitution is all about.
And people who have the courage to stand up against the people who wants to take all of the rich peoples money away from them and buy votes by promising to give it to the poor.
The only thing wrong with this country is the political whores, the government tit suckers and the enemies of freedom that is trying to take our freedom away.
When i say they are enemies of freedom, i just mean that in order to get what they want they have to take it from some one else, votes, money, etc = power.
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June 14th, 2010 at 12:18 pmOigal you think its a joke about Barry enabling and installing Sharia Law?
If you were here I’d better you some big dollars you’ll be seeing formal Sharia courts in the US by the end of Barry’s presidency.
Why do you think he’s the President in the first place?
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Oigal says:
June 16th, 2010 at 7:55 amGreat you guys are back:-)
Oigal you think its a joke about Barry enabling and installing Sharia Law?
Really, I suppose you have rational examples of that? You do understand the limitations of the office don’t you? Oh and the fact BO is not a Muslim..
Why do you think he’s the President in the first place?
I will take punt and say because he won an election?
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June 16th, 2010 at 12:15 pmReally, I suppose you have rational examples of that? You do understand the limitations of the office don’t you? Oh and the fact BO is not a Muslim..
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How do you know? -
swann2001 says:
June 18th, 2010 at 8:02 amI am totally confused, maybe someone can help clear things up for me. I see by his faked or at least not the long form birth certificate that was given to people born in Hawaii at the time of his birth that his name was supposedly Barack Hussein Obama II as it says on the birth certificate he purportedly produced and is shown on Snopes.com. So when exactly did he become Barry Soetoro? During his college years he went by the name Barry Soetoro. So he started out as Barack then became Barry then became Barack again? Where did these name changes take place? Has anyone seen the official name changes. Kind of confusing because I always assumed he was born as Soetoro and then changed his name to Obama. Also we know he traveled to Pakistan and Indonesia during his college years, whom did he talk to back then? Where are his radical Muslim school chums now?
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June 18th, 2010 at 8:30 amRobert,
All 300 million Americans certainly did not vote for this guy and until a valid and true birth certificate is produced, he is not my President. The military needs to be very careful about the orders it follows from this man because they were sworn to protect and defend the Constitution and if he tries to ignore that they need to uphold their oath to the Constitution and not Obama. Right now they are trying to do away with the First and Second Amendments by trying to pass H.R. 5175 called the Disclosure Act and the Second Amendment by Hilary Clinton agreeing to a UN Treaty that bans the sale and possession of small arms by any Country’s citizens. If agreed to by the United States this would outlaw all now legal firearms by Americans. Since America is about the only Country that allows it’s citizens to keep and own handguns and semi-automatic weapons, it isn’t hard to see who they are trying to disarm and why. Everyone complained about George Bush but after a couple of more years of Obama they will see George Bush for the decent man he was, if not always right about everything.
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June 18th, 2010 at 9:13 amAlaskaninfidel says he is a Muslim and if so he is one that sees the light and the Koran for what it is and one of the few Muslims I have heard who decided to think for themselves. Islam, Judaism or Christianity all believe in God or Allah, but for me I will never follow any God or Allah that tells me to fly a plane into a building that has thousands of innocent people inside. How do I know for a fact that they are innocent? It doesn’t matter, only God or Allah should judge who is guilty or innocent, as he will judge us all someday. I do find it somewhat telling that a Muslim’s greatest fantasy of Heaven will be to have 90 virgins waiting for him, most people seem to want a beautiful city where the streets are paved with gold while angels float around strumming harps. I think we will all be disappointed if that is our jaundiced view of Heaven. My belief is that heaven or hell is right here on earth and we have the power to chose one over the other. I will agree to get along with peaceful Muslims such as Alaskaninfidel, what is it going to be? Unfortunately it is the unpeaceful people who may get to decide for all of us and therein lies the tragedy. In the end Muslims, Christians, and Jews and people of all faiths can decide to just get along because to do otherwise is too unthinkable. Reasoning people can choose to make peace, what do you say Infidel, care to get the ball rolling?
The next time someone approaches us and says let’s go blow up that train, or burn down that Church, or kill that those Muslims or Jews. Report them to the authorities: take a stand against violence. That is how much of the violence in Iraq was eventually brought under control, it was people of different sects saying we have had enough and started reporting the terrorists. We should do it here and everywhere in the world until eventually the evil doers will have no more places to hide. That is how we change things.
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Ross says:
June 18th, 2010 at 4:35 pmYou American readers, did you know that un-named ‘interests’ put pressure on the producer of a movie here about Hussein’s boyhood, after he said he had the basis to include Obama in Muslim prayer mode?
Must have been powerful interests at work, because the movie man knuckled under! No kneeling or bowing Barack on the screens!
State Department? Who knows? Never trust a foreign service bureaucrat! -
queenie says:
June 19th, 2010 at 12:14 amIf this man, Barry Soetoro aka: Barack Obama was born in Hawaii, he would have no problem releasing his original birth certificate and other records. There’s an old saying, where there’s smoke, there’s fire.
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diego says:
June 19th, 2010 at 10:46 amAsalamualaikum. Astagfirullah! WIll this thread obtain that special status like ‘Dating Indonesian Girl’? The controversy continues! Inshaallah! Walahuallam! Walaikum Salam Warahmatullahi Wabarrakatuh!
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Oigal says:
June 21st, 2010 at 8:49 am“You American readers, did you know that un-named ‘interests’ put pressure on the producer of a movie here about Hussein’s boyhood, after he said he had the basis to include Obama in Muslim prayer mode?
Must have been powerful interests at work, because the movie man knuckled under! No kneeling or bowing Barack on the screens!
State Department? Who knows? Never trust a foreign service bureaucrat!”Ooohhhh…A Movie Producer was going to make a movie with Kid Obama saying a prayer Muslim Style.. Ergo BO is a closet Muslim… DINGBAT ALERT!
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June 21st, 2010 at 9:27 amThink DINGBAT is too charitable. DINGLEBERRY is more appropriate, and the low hanging ones at that…
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June 21st, 2010 at 7:11 pmWell, I don,t say that Obama is a dingbat or a dingle berry, i believe you would have a more suited tittle for him and the people who got him in if you would read a book called the new world order, or Global tyranny step by step.
People are trying to make it a personal thing with Obama, because Obama is an individual, so its much easier to blame one person than to try to figure out just where the problem is coming from to begin with.
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Ross says:
June 21st, 2010 at 8:46 pmDon’t worry, Cliff, Oigal is notorious around the webworld for his eccentric outbursts.
He has currently been feverishly pushing the ‘gay’ agenda while being terribly coy about his own stance on legalised incest. A real dingbat.
You notice that he shows no interest in the film-maker’s admission that mysterious ‘interests’ compelled the cutting of Barack Muslim scenes.
Oigal hates to read or consider anything that does not stem from like-minded intolerant liberals. -
Ross says:
June 21st, 2010 at 8:52 pmAnd Odinius, you shouldn’t emulate Oigal’s infantile style.
You can present arguments in rational form when you choose, so why sink to a moronic level when all you have t do is explain why the film-maker cut the scenes and why he won’t identify whose influence or power got him to do so. -
Oigal says:
June 22nd, 2010 at 7:48 amI confess it was me…I got him to cut the scene…. Do play nice Ross.
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June 22nd, 2010 at 9:16 amRoss,
Or, the director never had the footage. Or, even if he did, only dingbats actually give a f*** what Obama did when he was 8 years old.
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Oigal says:
June 22nd, 2010 at 12:48 pmHe has currently been feverishly pushing the ‘gay’ agenda while being terribly coy about his own stance on legalised incest.
Oh Ross, you really are such a fibber!
, you only make harder for yourself when someone outs you. Do try and be a little rational and little less personal with your outbursts its embarassing to watch you perform at times. Do tell, who would acually care or even watch the film to take note of such things other than paranoid dingbats looking for signs of the beast?
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Ross says:
June 22nd, 2010 at 9:36 pmOigal, no fibbing please!
It is absolutely true that despite your irascible reaction to my calm comment, on the other thread (Trousers on Aceh Women) you have refused time and again to say if you are as strongly in favour of legalising incest as you are on elevating perversion to the level of normality in the law of this country or elsewhere.My comment which got you all excited concerned a comparison made by certain Muslims that homosexuality and incest were being encouraged by something or other.
My view is that both are undesirable phenomena and there is no reason to treat them as acceptable forms of behaviour.
I also said it was very much the case that homos are more of a risk to children than normals. You got terribly angry about that and declared you would not accept any supporting material that originated from conservative or religious sources.
I could have supplied more statistics etc. but having done so and been only insulted for my efforts, I decided to let you have your turn and ANSWER THE QUESTION.
Instead, you went into kindegarten mode with lots of ‘yawn…laugh…etc.’ which your antagonists on this thread will recognise as what passes for your debating technique. If you can’t respond rationally,you call people dingbats or as your sidekick in pro-poofter rhetoric, Odinius, calls them, dingleberries.
Odinius himself dismissed three sensible men as morons, though Spencer, Wilders and Horowitz have only asked their countrymen to wake up to a serious threat..
Odinius elsewhere ignored all the contradictory evidence on the ‘gay’ menace and said that ‘studies show’ shirt-lifters are no more of a threat to kids than normals. which is at best unproven and at worst untrue. Same as Obama’s antecedents.
Oya, the movie. You show no interest at all in finding out who pushed or bullied the movie-maker to cut those scenes. They don’t prove anything one way or the other, so why censor them?
The movie-man himself was quoted as saying it was connected to fear of what Americans who saw the movie might conclude from them.As you are seemingly allowed on this thread and others to use insults rather than argument, I don’t expect either of you to explain to annoyed Americans why their ‘President’ with all his power and resources can’t get hold of his long-form birth certificate.
I do, however, think they should understand that you are a pair of charlatans. Integrity, honest argument and any commitment to traditional decencies is outwith your framework of reference.
Note I’m not going to call you ‘morons’, ‘dingbats’ or other of your preferred abusive terms. It is tempting and I have been driven in the past to do so by Oigal’s refusal to answer the question, but enough is enough.If you want to enter my new blog (via the spot at the top of IM’s home-page) please do but you will be required to argue your case, not bluster and berate adversaries.)
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Oigal says:
June 23rd, 2010 at 8:58 amIt is absolutely true that despite your irascible reaction to my calm comment, on the other thread (Trousers on Aceh Women) you have refused time and again to say if you are as strongly in favour of legalising incest as you are on elevating perversion to the level of normality in the law of this country or elsewhere
Oh Ross, you do go on! Are you ok, perhaps a bex and good lie down, you sound feverish? Oh well, no one can say I did not try to ignore continual personal attacks in the absence of substance.
The fact that someone refuses to indulge your homophobic fanasties and inane paranoidal conspiracy links purely a matter of withdrawing oxygen to a bigoted fool. Besides the infantile red herring aspect, the major reason incest was not responded to was Incest carries its own warnings, the product of which could end up as flaming homophobic, racist, bigoted internet poster. A legend in its own lunchbox if you will.
We have done this Ross, have you got nothing new? You supplied nothing but right wing, agenda driven drivel easily refuted by anyone with two minutes on their hands. Even then all you were asked to do was to identify your sources for what they were, rather than pretend they recognised unbiased organisations/people. Its called honesty in reporting Ross
Odinius himself dismissed three sensible men as morons, though Spencer, Wilders and Horowitz have only asked their countrymen to wake up to a serious threat.
You complain about people laughing at you, yet time and again you come up with nonsense such as this. You may indeed regard the above as gentlemen rather than bigoted fools however that does not mean anyone who disagrees with you is anything but sensible.
Oya, the movie. You show no interest at all in finding out who pushed or bullied the movie-maker to cut those scenes. They don’t prove anything one way or the other, so why censor them?
The movie-man himself was quoted as saying it was connected to fear of what Americans who saw the movie might conclude from themYeah right, the Americians would be lining up to see the movie? This would have to be one of your silliest yet.
Note I’m not going to call you ‘morons’, ‘dingbats’ or other of your preferred abusive terms. It is tempting and I have been driven in the past to do so by Oigal’s refusal to answer the question, but enough is enough
Laugh..Just more of the same sanctimonious drivel followed by this…
I do, however, think they should understand that you are a pair of charlatans. Integrity, honest argument and any commitment to traditional decencies is outwith your framework of reference.
As for you Blog, thanks nothing more we enjoy more than reading foot stamping tantrums in the insular world of Ross. By the way, you really should not attack people personally in a blog unless you expect more of the same.
Still I am glads you brought it here as this is the home for feverished rants of the chosen ones.
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