Single Mothers in Yogya

Nov 5th, 2008, in IM Posts, Opinion, by Guest Writer

View the original article here.

98 Comments on “Single Mothers in Yogya”

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Purba Negoro Says:
November 6th, 2008 at 7:57 pm
[deleted]
Clare Phyllis Says:
November 6th, 2008 at 8:42 pm
I don’t think so PN. Since you chose earlier to personalise your attacks on my views and my account of the matters we have been discussing, I feel free to tell you that I think you are the kind of person who is full of swagger and conviction in the anonymity of a medium such as this, or in the bar after a belly full of wallop; but faced with the flesh and blood reality you would suddenly discover a rational streak in what would otherwise appear to be a somewhat bizarre nature. I have lived and worked with and been in charge of crews of genuinely hard men for most of my working career in extreme and challenging environments, and I can guarantee you do not match the job description.

If you wish to be taken seriously, and a conservative viewpoint, even an extreme one, is a perfectly respectable position to adopt in this or any debate; you should make an effort to control your argumentative style. Be as direct as you wish but gratuitous unpleasantness and the kind of female hating abusive terminology you employ merely makes you appear ridiculous, and I for one will not respond to you in future or waste any further time reading anything posted by you.
Andy Says:
November 7th, 2008 at 2:32 am
Clare, please continue to respond to the nonsense you read here as there are few voices of reason amongst the bloggers on this forum. You have had the horrendous experience of living amongst the narrow minded bigotry of the average Indonesian muslim. I also spent nearly 4 years there so know exactly how they operate. The funny thing is I am glad some of the bloggers here say what they think because in person no Javanese muslim i’ve met has had the guts to say it to my face. This means at least we have our finger on the pulse in regards to the thoughts of these people even if they must hide behind a keyboard. I used to hear whispers in Bahasa Indonesia about me and others and I responded to them in their own language. I have never seen people quiver and squirm so much as I did in those times. They are simply cowards. It is also a sad reflection on them that they must know so much about everyone else. They obviously have many voids in their life to fill if you, me and the rest of the world take up so much of their time.

I hope everything works out for you in the end. Keep fighting the good fight!
Clare Phyllis Says:
November 7th, 2008 at 5:24 am
Indonesia has been the home base from which I have worked for over twenty-five years so I am used to the situation with some sections of the population that you describe.

I found in my six years of driving a cab in the south east of England, which marked the period between finally ditching my career in international marine construction work and pension’s kick-in, a similar trait in the British.

I had pictures of my family up to remind me why at my age I was doing some 80 hours a week in the cab. These pictures disturbed a certain type of person and the mutterings and the abrasively racist comments would start and I would tip the idiots out.

The London Black Cab has a fine selection of door locking options and a screen solid enough to withstand hammer blows, although it is not bullet-proof (a point made seriously in the advertising blurb, which must say something about modern Britain).

The most unpleasant of my passsengers would invariably be in lots of four or five so it was unwise for a man in his early sixties to contemplate direct violence. Nonetheless there were times on the ranks outside the nightclubs when the red mist descended and I forgot my age and found myself in the middle of a crowd physically dragging drunken screaming teenagers and twenty-somethings out of the passenger area and tossing them back on the pavement. As you point out the back-off rate was far higher than any inclination to prolongue the tussle. This is a common finding worldwide.

I found as much talking behind the back and nosiness in Britain as anywhere and it is this kind of point I am trying to illustrate in stories I am posting on my website: http://cphyllis.jatimber.com

Bigotry and narrowmindedness is an international problem that may concentrate in different areas of society in different countries but it is always there. It does not however represent the main character of the society but like an ugly scar on someone’s face it may deflect attention away from the beauty of the rest of the person; or the country.

Understanding between cultures and countries is a dual operation between equals. There is misunderstanding in both directions. There is much that Indonesia can learn from the state of modern British society and there is a huge amount that Britain and other European nations could learn from Indonesia and the development here of a fresh democracy and how to deal with the incipient threat of terrorism.

Some of this learning may well bring conclusions (in all countries) along the lines of,

‘We do NOT want to make mistakes like that!’

But without learning the details of what exists in reality in one another’s societies judgements must remain based solely on hearsay, prejudice, and the outdated experiences of history.

Thank you for the kind words.
timdog Says:
November 7th, 2008 at 5:34 am
Clare Phyllis – nice to have you here… a fine attitude, and your website is rather interesting (I particularly liked the story behind the name you post under…)
I’m not sure how long you’ll be able to stick it here between the twin absurdities of Purba Negoro and Mr Andy, but anyway, you’re a refreshing voice…
Clare Phyllis Says:
November 7th, 2008 at 6:09 am
Hallo Timdog

A working life, most of which was spent in international construction work, as the buffer state between the absurd programming requirements of the management of the British boards of directors, and the totally confused indigenous workforce of whatever country we were working in, has made me pretty well impervious to fleabites of the ridiculous. The collapse of the British construction industry through hubris and gathering ineptitude was like studying the concurrent collapse of the British Empire in miniature for much the same sort of reasons.

Amongst yesterdays posts there are some genuinely interesting and brave stories and some constructive comment; the rest is life’s background hiss of madness.

Thanks for taking a look at the site. Please call again and contribute in any way you wish. It will take time to develop into a properly active tool and I struggle with the technical side quite often. Links may crash occasionally so be patient please!
Patrick Says:
November 7th, 2008 at 7:06 am
@ Timdoggie – You don’t have to make apologies for the behavior of people who post on Indonesia Matters, as the site is what it is! And that is the most absurd, farcical, hysterical, commentary anywhere in the world and mixed in with sprinkles of clever antidotes and and rare sober moments of sensible thoughts. In other words IM is unique and an excellent forum and product despite of itself. Hats off to Bapak Patung!
Berlian Biru Says:
November 7th, 2008 at 9:41 am
@Clare

“I cannot believe though that if we fail in this it would be better if the child had not been born but had been clinically removed as some kind of an emotional risk too far for the baby and her mum.”

I wholeheartedly agree, I have had personal and close relationships with maybe two dozen women who have gotten pregnant out of wedlock, some married the men involved, some of the marriages were successful some were not, some of the women had the children without any or limited involvement with the fathers and quite a few had abortions.

Without exception, without exception, the women who opted for abortion deeply regretted their decision in later life, for many it wrecked their later relationships or destroyed marriages (yes, I knew a couple of married women who had abortions), they all suffered considerable mental as well as in one case physical harm as a result of their decision to have abortions.

On the contrary, of the women who chose to have the children, and no matter how tough were the consequences of having that child, none of them, without exception, without exception, later regretted their decision to keep the child and many actually shudder in horror at how close they came to aborting their beloved children. Whatever the consequences, your daughter, wife and you all made the correct decision.

Great website by the way, thoughtful and intelligent, which is a lot more than can be said for some of the posts above.
Andy Says:
November 7th, 2008 at 11:32 am
Patrick-Timdoggie – You don’t have to make apologies for the behavior of people who post on Indonesia Matters, as the site is what it is! And that is the most absurd, farcical, hysterical, commentary anywhere in the world and mixed in with sprinkles of clever antidotes and and rare sober moments of sensible thoughts. In other words IM is unique and an excellent forum and product despite of itself. Hats off to Bapak Patung!

I will confess Patrick that this is why I come back for more. IM is always interesting and the disagreements make it more so. I have posted on many other similar forums and find them to be bland and one dimensional. Not to mention too heavily policed by the moderators. Long live IM!!
fullmoonflower Says:
November 7th, 2008 at 3:38 pm
Clare,
you just gave an inspiration this morning…

Realized that this case can be happened to any girls in Yogyakarta, and since I’ve planned to move to Yogya by next year, I think I will make a little foundation in Yogyakarta under my family’s foundation.

Well, my big family has a foundation, and my father is the leader. I also will be the next leader.
I think I’ll call some friends, who is a lawyer, a psycologist, a doctor, and an entrepreneur. I am a Tax & Customs Consultant myself, and also will build a branch of my franchise in Yogyakarta. So, if there is no company or no neighbourhood likes to accept Single Mothers in their surroundings, I guarantee : me and friends will accept them.

As our conversation in another forum, we got same vision, and we are concerned to help any girls who is trapped in this shitty situation.

I don’t want to be a NATO person like denbaguse PN
(NATO = No Action Talk Only; denbaguse in prokem javanese means “Rat” )
and talking negatively without giving any solution…
maybe I am a woman, but I have a man mouth…

wonder why a souldier like PN has a man body with a woman mouth…

Anyway, I’ve been thinking of this since 2004, since i found there so many same cases in Yogya.
When I talked about it to my police friends and relatives, I’ve gotten support from my police friend, who is an inteligent agent and he is a Leutnant Colonel (Ajun Komisaris Besar Polisi [AKBP]), and my uncle who is Kapolda in one Provence, and also my friend who is a Kapolres in one District.

Maybe this is the time for me and my friends to act
Poor girls… They are deserved to get a second chance after the mistake…

Once again, thank you Clare…
Clare Phyllis Says:
November 7th, 2008 at 4:54 pm
No Fullmoonflower it is you who are inspirational. Your story is full of courage, modestly explained, and I am sure your parents are immensely proud of you.

What you are planning is a fine and much needed endeavour that will improve matters for many young women in the future and save many babies lives, I feel sure of that.

Our own daughter is fine. She is still upset and confused now but we are a strong family, even if at times some members do panic and react without much thought. Our daughter will be protected and so will her child and in time all will be well.

The ones who I know you have in mind are those less fortunate who face being thrown out of their families and have no means of survival, are terrified and alone. Such young women will, like the one the other night by the new museum here on Merapi (I mentioned in a post yesterday), be driven to despair and in the traumatic period after giving birth do things for which they will be eternally sorry and will remain a blight on their lives forever.

No society should place these kinds of strictures on human existence; and by saying that I am in no way indicating that the corollary is automatically a society where permisiveness runs wild. That kind of simplistic reading of matters is what causes the harm. Along with the kind of humane and understanding assistance that you and your friends propose giving there is no reason why there should not be improved education on all matters to do with sex and reproduction, and there is no reason why the ideal family unit will not remain the best alternative for everyone especially children. But where the best situation has broken down it is sensible and right that there should be understanding.

The new president of the USA is the product of a single parent household and a confused and very mixed extended family situation; including of course a connection with Indonesia. Not all children from broken or confused family backgrounds fail; the statistics in Europe are not encouraging, but simply crying for the safe ideal to be insisted upon, or striven for as the only panacea is, as I say, simplistic and unrealistic.

I would not waste time on the likes of PN; you have too much to do in your busy life. I learnt a long time ago in Java that all adults, particularly fathers and whomsoever is the leader of a family, should maintain a cool head and a detached attitude so that they can handle life’s exigencies to the best of their abilities. Losing one’s temper is a sign of weakness anywhere in the world, but never more so than here.

The very best of luck to you and your friends and your family in this and in all things, and thank you for telling us all your story and commenting so positively.
Rob Says:
November 9th, 2008 at 12:55 pm
Patung…

Did you delete PN’s threats?

The part on telkomsel was interesting, was that part of the deleted comment? It was interesting because telkomsel have been known to do it in the past. There are cases where prosecutors have adduced taped conversations.

PN…

Threatening people is hardly the democratic or Javanese way is it?

Clare…

Don’t let the PNs and the AABs or others get the better of you on this one. Just don’t engage with them, water of a duck’s back so to speak.

Your original post was a worthy one and generally sparked reasonable debate among those interested in reasonable debate.
David Says:
November 9th, 2008 at 6:49 pm
Did you delete PN’s threats?

Been busy with family man stuff so took me a while to notice them but yes….some people just don’t get it.
Aluang Anak Bayang Says:
November 9th, 2008 at 8:41 pm
@ Rob

Clare…

Don’t let the PNs and the AABs or others get the better of you on this one. Just don’t engage with them, water of a duck’s back so to speak.

Don’t try to get Clare involved. Only those who lied to his Indon friends and students should be worried that this brown man is revealing too much.

Why should Clare be concerned with me? He has nothing to hide. He lives among us and may even be more Javanese than many pribumis. I admire him for that.
Rob Says:
November 9th, 2008 at 8:43 pm
AAB…

What lies would those be?

What would it be that you are revealing?
Rob Says:
November 9th, 2008 at 8:46 pm
AAB…

Do I know you as someone else? Is this how you “know” so much about me?
fullmoonflower Says:
November 9th, 2008 at 8:51 pm
hmmmm….

Denmas AAB, since I noticed that you have a title “Raden Mas”…. Wow, it’s miraculous… This is the first time I see you being so wise as a Javanese….. cool!!

but will it be forever? or only for this time
ET Says:
November 9th, 2008 at 9:09 pm
@ Berlian Biru & Clare Phyllis

On the contrary, of the women who chose to have the children, and no matter how tough were the consequences of having that child, none of them, without exception, without exception, later regretted their decision to keep the child and many actually shudder in horror at how close they came to aborting their beloved children. Whatever the consequences, your daughter, wife and you all made the correct decision.

It’s uplifting and heartwarming to notice that common sense and love of life aren’t yet eradicated by pro-choice feminist crap.
Kudos.
Aluang Anak Bayang Says:
November 9th, 2008 at 10:13 pm
@ Rob re,

Clare…

Don’t let the PNs and the AABs or others get the better of you on this one. Just don’t engage with them, water of a duck’s back so to speak.

I am referring to your above statement warning Clare about me. What for, may I ask? Clare married a local and lives amongst us. He is not a threat. Any nationals who can blend in are considered worthy of being Indonesian.

You, as one of Blok M clientele, probably lied to your gullible students and bargirls about Ostraya, promised marriage, and impregnanting them. You are probably one of the causes of single mother in our land.

Clare quacks with us. You are one duck who clucks.
Rob Says:
November 9th, 2008 at 10:19 pm
AAB…

Thanks!

So, if you marry an Indonesian woman you are considered to be worthy?

It would seem that I am worthy
Bas Says:
November 11th, 2008 at 11:55 am
“Drink, drugs, promiscuity; are these all necessarily part of modernity?”.

Drink, drugs and promiscuity (prostitution, free sex…) already exist in Indonesian traditional and pseudo modern indonesian culture in a much larger scale than in any Western/modern society. They don’t need globalization for that. The only difference is most of Indonesian people cannot admit they are not clean and always put the fault on other (read bules and chineses). At UI, I “learned” (Let’s say you can learn something in an Indonesia university) the Chineses are the ones to blame for the drug problem in Indonesia.. they were the first importers.. Well they actually imported Islam, not the narcotics but who care (“no, no it’s not true!!!”, say the monkey who believe all atheist are communists.”? Today Bules are the ones they blame to hide their ugliness and stupidity.

Single mothers should wear a “I am a proudly single mother and i f**** you!” Tshirt (or a softer version of it).

Indonesia really needs a cultural revolution.
I'veLearntMyLesson Says:
November 11th, 2008 at 12:56 pm
I was an unwed single mother once. I fell pregnant when I was in high school 2 decades ago. We’re young, lustful, curious and stupid. One amorous encounter and the next thing I know my world was turning upside down. My parents were brokenhearted, especially my father as I’m his favorite child. They couldn’t understand how that could happen to them. They thought they’ve done their best in bringing up their children. They’re seeking for answer for years, what has gone wrong?
The truth is, it wasn’t their mistake. It’s MY mistake. I was stupid. My parents have been teaching their children about religion, morality, norms, sex, etc, etc.. Basically almost everything we need to know to grow up well. But understanding those things didn’t stop me from making a mistake.
Anyway, after all the panics wore off my parents & I decided that I wouldn’t marry my childish teenage boyfriend who didn’t want to have anything to do about it and that I would keep the child as I didn’t want to make another mistake. I stopped going to school for about a year then went to another school after that. I finished my bachelor degree with cum laude and got a good job, later on my company sent me to do a Masters degree. My parents was looking after my son while I was finishing school. I tried to make up with my parents by doing my best in school and work. They have forgiven me and are very proud of me.
When my son was 8 yo, I found a good man whom I’m still married to and he’s also a good father to my son and our daughter. I’m glad that I have very supportive parents and that I didn’t opt for abortion. My parents love my son very much and never been ashamed of him. He’s now doing Masters on scholarship. He’s aware of my past and now becomes more careful in planning his future.
fullmoonflower Says:
November 11th, 2008 at 3:18 pm
very touchy and an inspirational story

hope it will inspire everyone…..

thank you “Ivy” for sharing….
God Bless You and your family
Diny Says:
November 11th, 2008 at 11:58 pm
Always been an avid reader of your blog. This is the first time I read your personal posting, not a political ones or socio-economy ones. I feel for your daughter. I know it’s all different in Indonesia and things are ten times harder because of the dominant beliefs and/or the old tradition. Everybody could judge and snout, but the mother (your daughter) and the baby will be the ones facing, experiencing, dealing with the society there. I heard that Yogyakartan are laid back, but there are some hard core Moslems there too, right? Sorry I’m not offering you any solutions, but I thought I’d write.
fullmoonflower Says:
November 12th, 2008 at 8:30 am
@Diny,

but there are some hard core Moslems there too, right?

I always talk in this forum based on my experiences, since I was very busy with my works and business, I almost have no time to read books. I bought so many books, but they are still sealed till now, lie on my desk, haven’t been read yet…

Well, as my experience, I found that being a hard core muslim is not a guarantee for his or her moral…

My parent is a public figure, and religious, but I never wear jilbab. It’s reaped some critics from some hard core islam fundamentalist students group. But I didn’t care. As long I didn’t do something immoral, I thought it’s just fine.

When I was teenager, me and my brother liked to join my kampung’s youth to do ronda on weekend, after my boyfriend back from visiting me. One day, we got a big catch! A girl, who was very hard talking about my jilbab, was caught did something immoral in the darkness of Lapangan Lembah UGM with her boyfriend, and they used her jilbab as mattress…!!! We caught them and brought them to pak RT’s home, and the pak RT was also my father…

Hihihi… see : passion and religion are always opposite… when the passion comes, even the religion, organization, jilbab, etc, will be always forgotten…

One of my mother’s friends, she was a figure in one women muslim organization, her daughter was a member of islam fundamentalist students group, she always wear black wide jilbab and black loose dress everywhere, sometime she wear cadar (veil) also.
One day, the mother came to my home, crying to my mom. She found her daughter was pregnant without a husband, and the pregnancy had been for 5 months. The boy was the daughter’s friend in her group, who always pick her for majlis ta’lim. They got married 1 month later, and 3 months after the wedding, their son was born.

That’s so ashamed….

I have so many same experiences with people who were very proud to be an islam fundamentalist person; immorality, corruptions, etc…
That’s make me chose to be in “Grey Area”; to be a liberal persons. As long I’m not munafik, and didn’t do something immoral or corrupt, I think it will be fine
Farah Says:
November 12th, 2008 at 9:24 am
@ fullmoon
When i was in my university boarding house. I had this friend with long jilbab, and very religious. We share tv like in any other boardinghouse. I like western movies.. and as we know most of the movies had that kissing scene.
Once i watch tv with her and some of the other girls that staying at my boarding house. She cover her face and said “you really like western movie with kissing scene, its haram ! you should not see western movie” wow it makes me like a real sinner in front of other girls because a kissing scene on tv ! i just said “if you don’t want to watch it just go, and read some alqur’an and chill up” (im a frontal girl).
Few months after that, she dissapear from my boardinghouse. Her close friends said, she was locked by her father at home because shes 5 months pregnant with no husband !

hah !!!!

So much for being so religious eh?

And its not happening once or twice. Some of my university student that wearing head cover or jilbab mostly the one whos got pregnant without husband. They wear large clothes, so they could hide their pregnancy.

I wont say all of those girls are bad, some of them are nice. But i do really dislike a “munafik” kind of girls.
fullmoonflower Says:
November 12th, 2008 at 10:23 am
hihihi… thank you Farah…

She cover her face and said “you really like western movie with kissing scene, its haram !

maybe the right words she should say on that time is : “you really like western movie with kissing scene, it’s haram for you to see! but halal for me to do!!!” hahaha

just kidding…

well, in my campuss, there were so many fanatic girls and they were nice, even they still couldn’t keep me being friendly to all friends including boys… but most of them were nice, and keep friendly with me…

but I can’t be a fanatic one.. it’s all about choice…
kinch Says:
November 12th, 2008 at 12:51 pm
Perhaps Durian should be haram too
kinch Says:
November 12th, 2008 at 12:54 pm
@Farah:

From conversations over years with numerous university students, I’ve come to the conclusion that there is no den of vice and iniquity (not to mention below-average guitar strumming) more scandal-ridden than any given kost full of UI students.
fullmoonflower Says:
November 12th, 2008 at 1:32 pm
@ kinch…

yeah, perhaps Durian is haram… but Duren (Duda Keren) is not