Atheist Threat

Oct 10th, 2008, in IM Posts, by

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1,311 Comments on “Atheist Threat”

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  1. avatar janma says:
    October 13th, 2008 at 12:23 pm

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-M-vnmejwXo

    I can’t make the link thingy work today….. padahal I could last week…. and also weirdly suddenly I have to re enter my name and email for every post, whereas usually it comes up auto after my first post….. PLUS the search thingy is only bringing up a couple of posts, not like before when you could see dozens….. what’s up? or is it just me?

  2. avatar peace says:
    October 13th, 2008 at 2:23 pm

    hai janma, it happenend to me once, several weeks ago

  3. avatar Purba Negoro says:
    October 13th, 2008 at 9:05 pm

    Bear the White Man’s Burden is a very prevalent and sickeningly disturbing thread running through almost every white here- particularly the convict inbreds of Ostraya, like a stick of Blackpool Rock- yet half as cheap but twice as nasty.

    The Real White Man’s Burden:

    Take up the White Man’s burden.
    Send forth your sturdy kin,
    And load them down with Bibles
    And cannon-balls and gin.

    Throw in a few diseases
    To spread the tropic climes,
    For there the healthy niggers
    Are quite behind the times.

    And don’t forget the factories.
    On those benighted shores
    They have no cheerful iron mills,
    Nor eke department stores.

    They never work twelve hours a day
    And live in strange content,
    Altho they never have to pay
    A single sou of rent.

    Take up the White Man’s burden,
    And teach the Philippines
    What interest and taxes are
    And what a mortgage means.

    Give them electrocution chairs,
    And prisons, too, galore,
    And if they seem inclined to kick,
    Then spill their heathen gore.

    They need our labor question, too,
    And politics and fraud—
    We’ve made a pretty mess at home,
    Let’s make a mess abroad.

    And let us ever humbly pray
    The Lord of Hosts may deign
    To stir our feeble memories
    Lest we forget—the Maine.

    Take up the White’s Man’s burden.
    To you who thus succeed
    In civilizing savage hordes,
    They owe a debt, indeed;

    Concessions, pensions, salaries,
    And privilege and right—
    With outstretched hands you raised to bless
    Grab everything in sight.

    Take up the White Man’s burden
    And if you write in verse,
    Flatter your nation’s vices
    And strive to make them worse.

    Then learn that if with pious words
    You ornament each phrase,
    In a world of canting hypocrites
    This kind of business pays.

    Source: Ernest Crosby, “The Real White Man’s Burden,” Swords and Ploughshares

    Whitey is now reaping his wirbelwind: he’s jobless, bankrupt, homeless and totally indebted to foreigners.
    Living beyond his menas on borrowed time and money.
    The Third World takes great comfort in whitey’s mocub deserved just desserts of self-created Credit Crunch.

  4. avatar Marisa says:
    October 14th, 2008 at 12:17 am

    @ Patrick

    @ Marisa – Your being way too kind to me today! Thank you for the reprieve! : > )

    Glad our egos have shook hands and amused each other, Patrick.

    @ Berlian Biru

    … it is worth pointing out that militant atheism ain’t all that pretty either.

    And quite absurd. Atheism doesn’t recognize militant methodology, considering it isn’t required to preach nor to sacrifice. Anti-theism is something else, though.

    @ peace

    yes there is.. there are Buddhist, Catholic, Islam, Hindu, etc and there is atheism as one of human’s faiths / beliefs

    Pardon the etymological mix-up. You mean, faiths as in beliefs as in religions?
    Atheism, nevertheless, isn’t a religion. As I said to Berlian Biru, atheism doesn’t acquire nor enforce rites, scriptures or any other form of worship. How can it be a religion?

    i think atheism is not denying God, they just don’t believe God in religion context, they believe in the Great Power, otherwise there will be no time and space in the universe

    In religious context, with a personalized depiction of God, where religions do the Freudian dance on everyone’s heads, yes. Nothing wrong with that though. After all, in the eyes of men and women that we see God.

    @ bottom line

    A principle is just a principle, a religion is just a religion, an ism is just a ism, and it has always been mere inanimate puppet. What matters is how are the ventriloquists in the scenario? And not just who.

    The reason why a nation cannot achieve peace, is because it is not regarding the spiritual context as a significance. Even omitting it entirely. And I’m not saying spirituality is limited to religions, that’s basically like measuring the size of an ocean by the width of its surface and not its depth.

    Spirituality may later concern happiness, determination, creativity, human rights, intellectuality, etcetera etcetera altogether the core values of a nation. Thus, its politics, even economy. Believe it or not, back in year 1876, United States have already recognized this factor. Patrick there perhaps could recite US Declaration of Independence for us.

    The system that omits spiritual factors could permit atheism nonetheless, just in a way it permits the existence of religious fundamentalism on its soil, but it cannot govern the very nature of the society that provides its driving force. It’s going to be a typical senjata makan tuan scenario. Just as in a way it has been with religions.

    Same ol’ story.

    Anyways, back to topic. In my opinion, the North Sumatra provincial government is more concerned about communism, rather than atheism. I think this is more about Aceh, rather than comparing ideologies.

    But who knows? It might just lead to a massive ripple effect. The society will get the drift sooner or later, and they’d add one more item to their to-propagandize list. Atheism. Check.

    *singing Sheryl Crow’s If It Makes You Happy.

  5. avatar Lairedion says:
    October 14th, 2008 at 1:29 am

    Quoted from Rima Fauzi’s blog. To all believers:

    “He’s your God, they’re your rules”

    Many more or her excellent blog post:

    Too stupid to understand science? Try religion.

    Hatur nuhun, teh Rima!

  6. avatar Marisa says:
    October 14th, 2008 at 2:00 am

    Well written post, Lairedion, don’t have to read it to know how powerful and utterly intellectual it is. But if there has to be a segregation between believers and non-believers among humans now, and ironically both concern the same God depicted in religions, I’d gladly stand with those who laugh last.

  7. avatar Lairedion says:
    October 14th, 2008 at 2:27 am

    Marisa:

    I’m not interested in segregation. Did I say that? I’m cool with believers as long as they are cool with me. I also have my own belief but the concept of the personal God as the so-called Creator is absent and irrelevant.

    And a post doesn’t have to be always intellectual. With intellectual I think too much of snobbish people still discussing who brought in the “korek api” while the world around us is on fire.

  8. avatar kalika says:
    October 14th, 2008 at 7:49 am

    I think Atheist or non atheist, don’t matter. Have religion or not also not important. Religion is not bad, but our interpretation on religion that leads us to certain act… violence or non violence. We have been raised and educated in a such a way to believe that my religion is the best and other than that are not acceptable or will not be welcomed in heaven. I haven’t been to heaven nor hell so I don’t know whether there is heaven & hell for each religion, We have been taught to tolerate instead of appreciate. Even we have been taught that my way is better than yours. I prefer not to waste my energy talking things that lead me nowhere or boost my ego or superiority. I rather go deep into my soul so that I could see that we are all the same regardless what dress we are wearing, what body we have now. Love you all guys and love my motherland

  9. avatar Patrick says:
    October 14th, 2008 at 8:40 am

    @ Kalika – Very nice and succinct description of tolerance and understanding of all people regardless of their individual choice to believe or not in God. Thank you for it and the love!

  10. avatar Berlian Biru says:
    October 14th, 2008 at 8:50 am

    Marisa dear I never said atheism was a systemic methodology, I was merely pointing out for the benefits of those here who believe that the eradication of religion would end many conflicts and wars that when a form of atheism (Communism) has been imposed on societies it has invariably ended up in the violent deaths of hundreds of thousands if not millions of innocent men, women and children.

    You may well be an atheist and you are entitled to your (non?)beliefs but don’t forget the dreadful crimes against humanity committed around the globe by your fellow atheists.

    As I said, a Buddhist monk looks a lot less dangerous to me than a Khmer Rouge cadre.

  11. avatar peace says:
    October 14th, 2008 at 9:26 am

    @berlian biru
    You may well be an atheist and you are entitled to your (non?)beliefs but don’t forget the dreadful crimes against humanity committed around the globe by your fellow atheists.

    those crimes weren’t done by the sake of atheism, but for politic power, it was done by communism as it is also done by every ideology in the world. I see that religion can cause many interpretation, and this can bring rupture and disintegration even among the same religion followers

    that is one of the weaknesses, because they are made by humans, so when they created religions, it was based on their individual perceptions long time, how could they create a belief which would last forever…. time change, value also will change

    on the contrary, atheism does not have any fundamental ideology, so it is flexible depend on time. and what is best for humanity at the time

  12. avatar Andy says:
    October 14th, 2008 at 2:54 pm

    me-Atheism is the best thing that could ever happen to Indonesia. It will be a path to free thinking and free speech which is the cornerstone of all great democracies around the world.

    timdog-Anyway, if you would like to see atheism enforced on Indonesia (as you seem to suggest in some of your earlier posts)

    Where did I ever say anything about enforcement? Clearly people here have a problem comprehending the English language.

  13. avatar Lairedion says:
    October 14th, 2008 at 3:54 pm

    Berlian Biru,

    Most organic atheists or agnostics (and I consider myself one of them) as I know are not pressing for eradication of religions. They want to live normal, happy, meaningful and just lives like most of their believing counterparts and they have no problem to co-exist with their believing neighbours or relatives. They just want to have the free choice not to believe or follow a religion. Most of them are not interested in forcing atheism upon others. Neutrality of the state and freedom of choice, speech and thinking is all that matters to them. To link these people with Khmer Rouge is totally missing the point. The Khmer Rouge wasn’t interested at all in freedom of choice, speech and thinking. Understand?

    I prefer people who do not interfere in my personal beliefs and life over pushy people who think their truth is the only truth, atheists or believers.

    Andy, by saying “Atheism is the best thing that could ever happen to Indonesia. It will be a path to free thinking and free speech which is the cornerstone of all great democracies around the world” you are somewhat suggesting atheism should be enforced. I believe atheism as a choice should have its rightful place next to all religions within society. People must be allowed to disagree fairly on such matters. Secularism and neutrality as guaranteed and protected by the state is the path to free thinking and free speech and this will allow people to choice whether they believe or not. Unfortunately this is not the case in Indonesia.

    There are many atheists with tunnel-visions and limited view (mostly extreme leftists or rightists) and there are many believers who are committed to free speech and free thinking and will fight for your right to be an atheist.

  14. avatar Andy says:
    October 14th, 2008 at 4:00 pm

    No, I don’t want it enforced, that’s my point. I want it to be an option for all. Then let’s see how it goes. In the last 50 years in many democracies atheism has risen from a tiny minority to a substantial percentage. And amongst the rest, most don’t practice their religions. In Australia and Europe less than 10% attend church or places of worship.

  15. avatar Marisa says:
    October 14th, 2008 at 5:57 pm

    Screaming just for the sake of screaming and blaming the neighbors instead of making real efforts to distinguish the fire aren’t exactly being intellectual as well. With knowing who brought in the korek api, the next fire could be preventable. But never mind such moralistic speech for now, considering Laireidon’s intellectuality is somewhat irrelevant to mine.

    The reason I mentioned US, and spiritual factor — regardless which countries regard it as a significance, is because I’m quite certain what you all here refer by atheism is atheism of the West, the one you see in US or Europe.

    Newsflash. This post is supposed to be about communism, and as Berlian Biru explained earlier, the kind of atheism that relates to communism.

    I just sure hope that someday we’d all get to meet real mainland communists themselves. Of course, they laugh, they listen to music, they make jokes, and they make funny accent, but ask them on how their ideology got to be, quoting Andy, “the best thing that could ever happen to Indonesia. It will be a path to free thinking and free speech which is the cornerstone of all great democracies around the world.”.

    How? Well, uhm. I really don’t think it involves people whining like cry babies in their own comfort zones somewhere while sipping coffee.

    It involves confronting the enemy face front, not just neglecting the enemy and saying “Hey, we don’t care about your religion, now piss off.”, it involves more of shutting their mouth up at all cost. Not sure about the numbers, but it involves greater human sacrifices even more than ones made by religious people themselves, knowing the sacrifices made for no heavens and hell. And it sure doesn’t involve how our pitiful little lives made us loose our religion, understand?

    For more than a decade now, ideologies already gave us Indonesians the psychological and political war that we should endure to this day and we never understood why, some say the major power shift is happening, and all people like you ever think about is about yourselves and how-you-want-things-to-be, thinking that you’re the ones changing the course of a nation to your own liking.

    Mind you though that somewhere in the back of our Indonesian minds, the probability of having to endure more brutality remains existent. Question is, do you actually think that it will be done for the sake of some cry babies who happened to be feeling quite jaded about theism? Lol.

    I’m cool with believers as long as they are cool with me.

    Yah. Snobbish, Laireidon? Take a good look at yourself in the mirror before your judge others, it would be a shame if you end up being an intellect by your own definition.

    Even so, I agree to most of your opinions. I just don’t agree to how you make atheism sounds like a phase some teenies must go through.

  16. avatar Lairedion says:
    October 14th, 2008 at 6:51 pm

    Marisa said:

    I just don’t agree to how you make atheism sounds like a phase some teenies must go through.

    Is that true? Where did I say that?

  17. avatar Marisa says:
    October 14th, 2008 at 7:19 pm

    I’m not interested in segregation. Did I say that? I’m cool with believers as long as they are cool with me. I also have my own belief but the concept of the personal God as the so-called Creator is absent and irrelevant.

    And a post doesn’t have to be always intellectual. With intellectual I think too much of snobbish people still discussing who brought in the “korek api” while the world around us is on fire.

    You use the “I” too much. You cannot speak for anyone’s country, even your own, if you use the “I” too much. Well, you can, and I can, but people eventually will doubt the objectivity of our ideals.

    Here, let me a help you with a translation. I learned this from a journalist friend of mine; an intellect, sorry to say.

    Segregation isn’t what atheism intends to promote. Have atheism reinforce such practice? Atheism isn’t conflicting with theism, as long as theism isn’t conflicting with atheism. Atheism is a belief of its own but the concept of personal God as the so-called Creator is absent and irrelevant to it.

    And a post doesn’t have to be always intellectual. With intellectual I think too much of myself.

    Or perhaps it’s just how you consider intellects as snobbish people, while something tells me that they’re putting more efforts out there than you’ll ever do.

    Or perhaps it’s because your username is so hard to spell.

    No offense though, give me a fundamentalist any day and I’ll be back to normal.

  18. avatar Marisa says:
    October 14th, 2008 at 7:47 pm

    @ Berlian Biru

    You may well be an atheist and you are entitled to your (non?)beliefs but don’t forget the dreadful crimes against humanity committed around the globe by your fellow atheists.

    Uhm. I am not an atheist. I am not even an agnostic. I am not apart of any idealism. I am just here to bash everything that annoys me. One of the things that annoys me is others’ idealism that has taken the rights of people as unique human beings, and only assume them merely as part of an ism, a plot, an agenda, an ambition. Christianism, Islamism, Judaism, capitalism, communism, atheism, agnosticism, etc — I am not apart of these things.

  19. avatar Rob says:
    October 14th, 2008 at 7:57 pm

    Marisa…

    I do not doubt your beliefs that you are not a part of these “-isms”, I do wonder though how you remain apart from them if you have beliefs? Beliefs in this context does not infer religious beliefs. Rather, I find it hard that you do not believe in anything which ultimately could end with you being labelled with an “-ist” or “-ism”.

    The passion that you have displayed here in bashing the idealism of others suggests that you have very strong beliefs in at least a few things :D

    I am enjoying the give and take though.

  20. avatar Lairedion says:
    October 14th, 2008 at 8:04 pm

    Marisa,

    I represent me, myself and I only. It is me who’s voicing opinions here and I’m responsible for that. I do not represent atheists, agnostics or other people because what they do is none of my business. Neither do I represent countries, states, ethnicities or other entities. Hence, using the “I” word. It’s just my opinions I’m dropping here, Marisa and given the fact I’m topping the list of this year’s most comments I very much enjoy debating here with all the bashing, filth and rubbish that come with it.

    Lairedion is a meaningless name created many years ago with a Lord of the Rings elven name generator based on two of my three given names Toar and Purnomo which both reflects my mixed Manadonese-Javanese background. But I don’t want to jeopardize the small marga I descend from, thanks to the present fundamentalist climate so I don’t use my first name and my family name. They should not worry about my opinions voiced in the public domain that Internet is. I reckoned it was a distinguishable name well enough to use it on forums, blogs etc. What others think of it, I don’t care.

    If I consider shoulder-rubbing intellectuals snobbish it’s just my opinion based on my own experiences and outlook. You can agree with that or not.

    And I still think you’re sexy when you’re angry and full of passion. No offense though. :-) Give me any more bashing please.

  21. avatar Patrick says:
    October 14th, 2008 at 8:26 pm

    @ Lairedion – You mean you chose a name based on characters from The Lord of the Rings? A book filled with Catholic symbolism! (In my best Irish brouge) Glory be to heaven a possible convert in the making? The Lord God is infinite in His mercy! You, Lairedion are just full of delightful surprises! : > )

  22. avatar Patrick says:
    October 14th, 2008 at 8:57 pm

    @ Lairedion – After I posted a song popped into my head that I knew that I needed to share with you. It is not ABBA or even Catholic. Nope! The credit goes to a Protestant reformed slave trader who upon his conversion penned the lyrics to “Amazing Grace” A truly beautiful, inspirational and emotional hymn and one that I hope you take the opportunity to hear in the near future.

    “Amazing Grace, how sweet the sound,
    That saved a wretch like me….
    I once was lost but now am found,
    Was blind, but now, I see.

  23. avatar therry says:
    October 14th, 2008 at 9:34 pm

    A real intellect doesn’t go on and on about how intellectual they are.

    They have sense of humors and aren’t afraid to be goofy.

    I’mm glad you have a sense of humor Lairedion, that way i know you are a REAL intellect.

  24. avatar Marisa says:
    October 14th, 2008 at 9:50 pm

    Oh, Lairedion, look who’s here. I think you (or is it I?) have pressed someone’s button. Sorry people, but I have nothing to do with the comment above. Hope someone isn’t trying to steal the moment here.

    And I do like having a moment with you, Lairedion.

    @ Rob

    The passion that you have displayed here in bashing the idealism of others suggests that you have very strong beliefs in at least a few things :D

    It’s a cynical remark, Rob. It’s me expressing the tiredness of being assumed.
    Appreciated the fact that you’ve asked kindly, though.

  25. avatar Marisa says:
    October 14th, 2008 at 10:10 pm

    Rob, pardon me for quick reading, apparently you didn’t ask. Lol. But thanks for pointing that one out, kindly, as always.

    Considering I’m just a faux intellect, and not a REAL intellect, I’ll be looking forward for more wise and insightful words on this site. Instead of..

    How? Well, uhm. I really don’t think it involves people whining like cry babies in their own comfort zones somewhere while sipping coffee.

    I think that’s the part that has accidentally pressed someone’s button. Bet she does goofy faces at the moment, reading this. Aw, how cute.

  26. avatar lomboksurfer says:
    October 14th, 2008 at 11:03 pm

    Hey dudes I am a real bloody intellectual. Check this out you bunch of bloody crybaby wankers! Surf gods rule! The rest of you are bloody fools! Now that’s bleedin beach philosophy and definitely done with a bloody sense of humor, Therry!

    P.s., Therry, your bloody hot, any chance you want to me meet at Stadium on Friday night?

  27. avatar lomboksurfer says:
    October 14th, 2008 at 11:20 pm

    @ Marisa – Please accept my bleedin apology as me mate smacked me in the head after I finished posting coz I did not invite you as well. I actually thought you were a bloody Martian? As I bloody well said earlier we are going to Stadium late Friday night to the 4th floor. You will know us surf gods coz we will be the bloody handsome ones with the hottest babes and your welcome to come bloody worship us as well. Dress really bloody hot! The less the best! And wear bloody 9 inch heals you bloody Martian goddess!

  28. avatar Lairedion says:
    October 14th, 2008 at 11:34 pm

    @therry,

    Thanks for the comment. Really appreciate it. I do consider myself an intellect and I think education is essential and a human right otherwise we might end up with anti-intellectual hate mongers like dumb Sarah Palin, a truly frightening thought. But there’s also something like being streetwise, humble and compassion towards fellow humans, animals and nature. I try to bring these values altogether with the upbringing of my children. You see I’m always seeking the middle path to try and blend all things useful together and create something of my own.

    @Marisa,

    I also want to have a moment with you, you never know what it might lead to hm…hm… I’m a very attractive man (go on and ask Farah, she can confirm this) but somehow I sense a little jealousy with you here, given your reactions to therry’s post.

    @lomboksurfer,

    I also like high heels. But 9 inch, that’s bloody torturing!

  29. avatar lomboksurfer says:
    October 15th, 2008 at 1:38 am

    Hey Lairedion dude – Do 9 inch bleedin heels really hurt? I dunno that as I lack your bloomin gay experience as I am a straight up surfing dude and never bloody well tried them myself! Anyway, to each his or her own I bloody well say! Just means more birds for the plucking for me and the other bleedin surfing gods! Surfers Rule! The rest of you drool!

  30. avatar Lairedion says:
    October 15th, 2008 at 1:56 am

    Dunno really dude, the missus told me so I tend to believe so.

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